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Nilla- testing DS Industrial mining beta

Started by Nilla, July 06, 2019, 02:51:51 AM

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MarkAnthony

#15
Hi @Nilla

I too am trying DS Industry and Mining out, I started it earlier this afternoon.

A question for you please: I have a four occupancy home that was built a couple years ago and no one has even moved into it yet. I have ten other homes so far. In them are nine students ages 12-16 years old and one Laborer that is 16 years old. I read in a couple places I think how this mod changes the citizen file a bit. Was the ages that the villagers move out changed? For the life of me I cannot figure out why no one will move into this home. The entrance is not blocked and it's right next to an identical home.

Any ideas?  I was wondering if maybe you saw this in your game at all? That's why I'm posting my question here.

Thanks.

EDIT TO ADD: All the while I was sitting here waiting for that one home to fill up; it never did so I didn't think I was in need of more homes. All this time I thought I was okay but now after I checked it seems I am a bit behind in my homes vs. families ratio.   :(

EDIT AGAIN: Never mind!  *sighs*  In the window for the home, the Occupancy tab was scrolled down so that I couldn't see the people living there.  :-[ Now I gotta play catch up! I was wondering why my population was growing so slow for the last couple/few years.

Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

MarkAnthony

I could have deleted that reply of mine; I checked the top of the page here and no one had read it since I put it up and then made my discovery. But though I am embarrassed, it's a teachable moment in case another new player experiences this issue.
               
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

Don´t be embarrassed @MarkAnthony, I think this is a mistake we all have done/still do from time to time.  :-\

I have been a bit quiet on this forum for some days. My husband was again at the hospital but now at home.

I started a new game with the latest update. The changes you´ve done @Discrepancy look good. We will see how they work. I haven´t come very far yet but I have at least one question:

Lumber; the smaller lumber mill makes 5 lumber from 1 log, the Worker´s construction yard makes 5 lumber from 2 logs. Intentional or bug? Lumber is very profitable, it was in the last version and I think you´ve even increased the production, the menu from the small Timber mill says 2-3 timber from 1 log and if I remember it right it worked like that in the last version. You´ll need a lot of lumber to build and develop your town and also to run the mines, so a high production is necessary. The lumber mills need shore in competition with trading ports, sand mines and some other buildings, so the number of mills you can build is limited. Maybe it would be good to set the price to 3 instead of 4. Or do you want it to be a big bussines to export timber? It wouldn´t be historically incorrect, so why not. But it will be easier than to build up a metal industry.

Ore; I´ve run the small cheap mine for a year. The production is a little over 100 for 1 miner. It´s a reasonable production and also a small profit; not so high that you want to export ore but at least a miner can support himself. I think you´ve found the right balance here.

First picture
It´s a hard start. it takes some years to get enough iron to build a school. It's good possible to get all children that are born in the settlement educated. The children who came to this place with their parents from the start, will however have to stay uneducated.

Map and settings are also shown.

Second picture
Slow but steady development.

Discrepancy

I've also made the same mistake before @MarkAnthony ;)

Quote from: Nilla on July 27, 2019, 12:21:08 AMLumber; the smaller lumber mill makes 5 lumber from 1 log
I think you mean the Timber Mill from the DS Timber Mill mod? sorry yes I have not altered that, I should have included a change with this mod. sorry.
I agree a change to the value might be needed also.

Are you getting many diseases still? are you getting many deaths from them?

Thanks.

Nilla

There were only 2 "diseases" before I could build the doctor. One broken bone (no one dead, no one infected) and Yellow Fever with several infected people and one dead. Now, after the doctor was built I also had Scarlet Fever, no one infected no one dead.

And yes, I mean that Timber Mill. I didn´t realize that it didn´t belong to "Industrial Mining", but now I can see that I had that mod loaded. It fits very well and it´s very good to have something in size between the large mill and the "Worker´s construction Yard", maybe you should consider to include it.

Nilla

It´s hot here, too hot to be outside for a long time. I´m lucky to live 150 m from a lake. The water is warm and I like to swim. We live very remotely, so in "our" bay I´m always alone. Just one problem at the moment; mosquitoes, gnats, mosquitoes, horse flies, mosquitoes! Terrible. Even in the sun at the lake. We´ve lived here for 15 years and it was never as bad as this. You certainly jump fast into the water!

So, chased from mosquitoes and heat into the house, I spent a few hours playing Banished. There´s not so much to tell. The new production values work so far. Except for the small initial workplaces where the production is and should be low, I´ve seen no unprofitable site. The most profitable site so far is the vanilla woodcutter. It still produces a lot, it could be set down a bit without causing big problems. Or maybe the value of firewood could be set down to 2, especially if you consider to set lumber down as well.

I will not farm for anything except flax. There´s one thing that disturbs me; the Thomson Trade Seed Trading Port. I made one business; flaxseed, then I demolished it. The upgrade is quite useless because you can´t order anything. It could be useful with a smaller port now early in the game but only if you can order grain. I see no reason to take this option away. It needs a small footprint so of course, it should be less useful than a larger port late game, but this could be solved with a lower capacity; just hold enough goods for sale to buy 1 seed. Or maybe take the special seed port away and add seeds to the Livestock Port. Here I also made only one business; buying some sheep but the upgrade to the big general store is great.

First picture
I find the menu from the Miner´s overseers office too big. I like to have it open when I play but it takes too much space away from the screen to my taste. But I like the small desk.

@Discrepancy, it looks like you haven´t changed anything/much when it comes to idling/herbalist behaviour. I followed the lady on the picture; Murieller one year. She idled twice, went to the herbalist 6 times, home to eat 9 times and home to get warm 3 times. About the same as in the last version. With these sometimes huge black circles; I don´t think it pays off to make everyone happy.

Second picture
Just a small view. The Timber Mill looks great. Since I will not farm, I will need some food ports. So far, I sell timber, some lamp oil, tallow and linen. I´ve also put some venison in the ports but just for "emergency". I will try not to use it, just to see if it's possible to live from the "industrial products". The Livestock port will be upgraded as soon as I need more storage space in the harbour area.

Artfactial

Love the stone riverside and mill, looking lovely.:)

Nilla

I've played a little more and will tell a little about it to the pictures.

First picture.
At this moment, the population doesn't grow at all. I didn't make anything wrong; I had enough houses for young couples, only houses for 5 person families. The explanation is simply; I had 10 (!) bachelors or young widowers (yes, I counted) and not one single girl. 28 years old teachers or miners marries 10-year-old students, some 39 years old move out from home alone, never finding anyone to marry.  :-\ There were at least 5 childbirth deaths in 20 years. Have you changed anything here @Discrepancy or was it only bad luck?

You can see my little flax, linen, lamp oil industry. It's quite profitable. The production variates a lot but now the weaver doesn't walk back and forth with the flax. 2 farmers, 1 weaver and 1 worker are involved in the production. I looked 3 years, together they produced linen and lamp oil to a value of 4032, 3432, 3144. There are probably some linseed eaten as well, but also a small input of firewood. So the profit is quite high. I find that the production of lamp oil could be reduced a bit. The production is now 600-700 and occasionally it stands still when there are not enough linseed, so I guess if I import a surplus of nuts, always good available, it will be even higher and too profitable for my taste.

Second picture
I've started to replace vanilla houses with the brick townhouses. Bug or wrong text? The text says that the smallest brick townhouses can hold a family of 3 but actually it's 4.

Third picture
Even if I don't think that it pays off, I've started to make some of my Bannis happy. I'm experimenting with happiness maker in the yard of the brick houses. The little mead stand would have been much nicer but the radius is tiny. Not even in the smallest yard, it will make the people in that block happy. If you one day are thinking of expanding the townhouses, a small brewer would be nice, maybe also a doctor, even if the Bryggen doctor looks better than the brewery in the yard.

A store for consumer's good would also be nice. You can see that I've built a vanilla market. I had some issues in that other game with the Wagon Vendors and Bryggen Markets I used at first. They load an awfully lot of "industrial stuff" so there was sometimes too little food to supply the people with all food categories. The vanilla market also loads at least as many different materials but it's so big that there's always room for enough food. Can you consider to make the smaller markets for consumers products (food, fuel, herbs, clothes, tools) only?

Discrepancy

I haven't changed the variables that I think is directly related to that occurrence,
float _childBirthHealthy = 0.00625;
float _childBirthUnhealthy = 0.025;

though the changes in the disease chance might make this happen more often, as I have noticed it happen a bit more often also.
I will leave it as is for now. If it really starts getting too bad and too often in maps I might play around with adjusting them a little.

Thanks for the feedback regarding the lamp oil, I had a feeling it was a little too profitable right now, but have been too busy looking at all the other numbers in metal production and didn't realize it was that much! :)

A mistake in the texts, it does allow 4, I increased all the homes by 1 occupant, but must have forgot to update the string texts. thanks.

Ok, same change to the markets :) I agree. I am also going to remove the ores from the industrial barns.

Nilla

These numbers look interesting and maybe the explanation of my many childbirth deaths. Since I don't farm and the trade for grain took quite some time, people weren't very healthy at the beginning. Now later when I can buy grain, I have hardly lost anyone at all in childbirth death. I even had more single girls than single boys for some time.

It looks like it's a probability of 2,5% to die for an unhealthy mother but only 0,62% if she's healthy; a big difference. I like it; another penalty if you don´t care about the health of your people. Does anyone know where the "breakpoint" is? Does it need all 5 stars to be counted as healthy or is 1 heart enough or is it something in between?

Talking about health; it looks like you've made some changes that make herbalists work better and more reliable. Now I can get 4½ stars when I use herbalists. I didn't manage to get there in my last game. I still don't know if it's worth the loss of work but at least, it's a significant difference in health with and without herbalists.

I have started this game not with mining but mainly with a lumber economy. The big lumber mills are very profitable. As they are located here; sometimes with the workers living a bit away, and as always, when you do mass production; some logistic issues, the mills make between 2300 and 3000 lumber with 5 woodcutters. When I only used one cutter, I saw an annual production of over 800.

I also sell a little coke. It's also a very profitable chain, not quite as good as lumber but about as good as linen/lamp oil. 5 miners in the upgraded small coal pit and 1 worker in the Battery Coke Oven produced 2200 coke, with an input of about 200 lumber. It also makes a trading profit of almost 1000 for each involved worker.

So you see; you can use this mod in many different ways to support your settlement in an "industrial way". It doesn't need to be mining, even if I'll come to that too, later. But first, I will develop the "lumber economy" a little bit further.

First picture
Again I didn't pay attention; it was something like 25 students as I last looked. Suddenly I saw the sign "overfull school". Luckily only one child missed school. I laughed as I saw what became of him. Now it's down to 30 students again, just a short time with that many. You see, @MarkAnthony we all make beginner's mistakes; all the time. (Well, at least I do and if anyone says he/she doesn't make any mistakes, I guess they are liars or too stupid to notice ;) )

Second picture
Here you can see at the graph, where I used herbalists. I've just assigned them again and the health continues to improve.

Third picture
Just a tiny little wrong text at the sand quarry. The limit follows raw materials (custom4) but the text says; stone.

irrelevant

At least, being a teacher, your uneducated Bannie can do no harm  :D

I always suspected that poor health made it more likely that bad things would happen to your guys (specifically death in childbirth), but when I said so I got pooh-poohed.

brads3

glad to see a modder look into affecting health and diseases more. i think these are some of the areas that LUKE had good ideas but never finished. can really enhance the game. i do wish he had split the citizen file out so we could do more with it.

if i had a magic wand, i'd take KIDs age,DS's health,TOMs education and happiness and then we could let JINX change their clothes. LOL sadly we can't YET alter the bannies with multiple mods.

Discrepancy

Quote from: Nilla on July 30, 2019, 11:36:36 AM
Does anyone know where the "breakpoint" is? Does it need all 5 stars to be counted as healthy or is 1 heart enough or is it something in between?

It is something in between. In the version you are using it would be 3 stars and below is seen as unhealthy.

Thanks for all the comments and insight :) it is very helpful. I'm working on the next update which will have a bigger change in all resource values and create counts again.

Nilla

I´ve reported possible bugs and some production calculation on the DS Industrial Mining thread so I´ll only show a few impressions.

First picture
Now we know who is idling a bit too much down at the trading docks!!  ::) ??? Should we be shocked? In any case, I can report no one else in the settlement was infected. It would have been too good if some male student became ill as well. ;)

Second picture
Overview of my latest development. I try to make as many as possible happy and healthy. But I´ve said it before; I don´t know if it pays off. It´s hard to say if the working time that is lost when someone grabs a herb and goes to the herbalist is worth the fewer diseases and childbirth deaths. And I don´t think that the long distance between work and home that´s needed to get everyone happy pays off. Anyhow, it´s nice to try.

Third picture
Good looking industrial buildings

Nilla

Still testing DS Industrial Mining. Now a new version; beta 04 and a new town.

This time I wanted it challenging. Industrial mining pure! It´s a small harsh mountain map from DS Terrains and Climates, harsh climate, disasters on, hard start. I have a few DS mods loaded (from which I now see that I will not use all):
Industrial Mining (beta 04)
Townhouses
Timber Mill
Thomson Trade
Mead and Ale (will not be used)
Terrains and Climates
Fuel Market
Wagon Vendor
Chapel of ST Ernest (will not be used)

First picture
The start was indeed difficult. Very little space, very little resources on the ground; (not even enough iron ore to build a school). Just barely enough stones for the initial buildings. The start was made harder with childbirth deaths and illnesses. And not to forget this..................

Second picture
...... a tornado in year 4! Not one single building was damaged but what on earth were 5 of my 20 Bannis doing out there in the most remote part of the forest? You can see its path. Gatherers and forester were, of course, doing their business but why all in that part of the forest? And what were the tailor and a small child doing out there? Looking at the tornado? Stupid Bannis! Interesting enough; I had 4 uneducated workers; 3 of them were killed by the tornado.  :-\ ???

Third picture
The tough start is managed. Here everything does work alright. On this map every log is precious, so I´ve started to replace the initial wooden houses with the far more fuel-saving brick Townhouses.

Fourth picture
Industrial impression. I don´t bother to make anyone happy. The houses are located close to the workplaces, also those with black circles. There´s simply not space enough to try. That´s the reason I will not use alcohol and chapels.

It hasn´t been easy to provide enough food; there´s only room for one of each gatherer and hunter´s hut, there´s too much mountain along the river to locate many fisher huts and the two I could put down aren´t very good. I have a lot of possible trading goods but the merchants only bring a little food. I´ve solved the problem with the only thing left; bees. These Bannis are spoiled with sweets, probably all have very bad teeth. One good side effect is that the beehives also produce wax, to produce a surplus of candles.

I can´t say so much about the new production numbers and trade values. I still need to micromanage a lot to get the settlement running and have rarely run a site continuously with the same product a whole year. But as far as I can see, most things are quite reasonable. At the moment I sell; iron, iron tools, coke, comb honey, venison and candles.

It´s the same profit for each tool, no matter if you produce the simple iron tool or the more complex steel or hardened tools. I would have prefered that the profit increases when the tool is more complex. Since you need less raw material for iron tools my guess is that they are the most profitable tools because of a higher annual production; the blacksmith doesn´t need to walk away to get any coke: My estimation is that it´s better to sell iron tools and coke instead of hardened tools.

Fifth picture
Overview