Author Topic: Nilla-testing the spring version of the North6 together with DS jetties  (Read 2943 times)

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Offline Discrepancy

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first off I will add my views in to what @Tom Sawyer has said about Lumber:
To put lumber in Wood was my idea or fault. I don't want it in Bricks because it makes a lot of trouble there. Not stored on wood piles, not accepted by timber merchants, confusing brickmakers and so on. In Wood it also makes problems. I can only imagine two solutions: A separate flag for lumber or no lumber. I'm still not convinced of this lumber thingy and prefer a generic "wood" resource. I don't even know how to make a good translation. For me it's just Holz. But I want to support it somehow if it comes in game by another mod. Will think about it.

I like the addition of lumber, only for the fact that is slows down building. Otherwise I'm going to go back to longerrrrrrr......... build times. I do think build times are too short for most vanilla buildings... I think housing is built too fast compared to the times of producing some goods etc. Most logs need to be dressed in any housing design anyway, though I know it is done to keep within the faster speed of the game, but it has always irked me, and playing with a realtime aging mod just exemplifies the problem. So, Lumber:

I do like it being in the wood storage flag also, for aesthetics and because it makes sense for trade etc as Tom said, but I can see the issue with it stopping wood (log) production by foresters. I added the option for the lumber to be then cut to firewood if need be in the Industry Lumber-mill.
It is hard to decide what to do here?, I started with Lumber being in same category as bricks & roof tiles, the change to wood seemed logical. A possible solution would be we could change the flag to materials with the clay, sand & lime. Though I don't really think it fits, same as with glass as it would be in a barn. Or I ditch it? what do I turn the lumber mills into? lol :)

I have some questions to Discrepancy.

- The hospital on the picture looks fantastic! :) It makes me happy! And my Bannis, it has a happiness circle. I guess it's "health" (replacing the Nordic sauna.) To return to my general discussion about the size of the happiness circles. I find the hospital has a too small circle. I think everyone would be happy to have a hospital in the village, even if you live more far away.

- The jetty well for firefighting shows no happiness circle. Does it have one anyway? If not, I find it ought to be added.

- Lumber is "flagged" as logs. I don't like that. My menu showed some 100 logs, so I didn't bother to produce any more. Suddenly my chopper stopped to work and I was really short on firewood. I realized that there were no logs left, only lumber. Red flags his lumber together with bricks and glass as building material. I think it would fit better together with bricks here, too. You have to check out in the inventory anyway, how much of it is bricks and how much roof tiles. I third product wouldn't hurt so much, as it does together with the logs.

- This is maybe also for @Tom Sawyer; some of the merchants bring corn to a price of 1; a bargain. It might be a marketing trick, introducing a new crop from oversee, no one ever heard of. But somehow, I think it's a "bug". A product that doesn't normally exist in the North, comes with the jetties in the game to a wrong price.

- My general impression is that the jetty buildings are expensive, with these new construction materials, that has to be produced. I haven't made any calculations to compare with other buildings and I will not say, it's too expensive. It's difficult to build on water, so why not? (I know, my husband and son worked all day yesterday, to repare our small jetty at the lake  :-\)


:)
- Jetty Hospital - I agree now with a noticeable happiness system - for next release I have increased the radius by approx 70% (was 34, will be 55). The hospital does give a Health happiness with worker. The hospital did show radius before construction, but I have edited it so that it will show when constructed and UI is open also.

- I have made the changes also to the jetty well to display the radius.

- I'm pretty sure the corn isn't coming from my mod, I have not included it any of the recipes.

- Yes I made the jetties expensive, some players will decide to not play with it because of this I know, but I do want a level of realism, and it really is not easy to build out over water, I wanted it to be a challenge. CC's docks are far too cheap. The problem is that I forgot to balance the build costs for the north.
@Gatherer , in the north it is far more expensive, something I should perhaps adjust is the build costs in the north. Iron Fittings have a cost of 16 in the north, wagon parts are 80 and lumber is 6 - the jetties are very expensive in the north.

I am working on the issues with traders not stopping. I think I have sorted it... hopefully, just doing more testing to make certain.

Offline brads3

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     NILLA,we have goats but they dont run around. we cant use them cause TOM locked up the feed.i have no corn seed,can only use RED's greenhouses to grow the corn. 

        DS, your theory on build times is interesting.we players have been spoiled by being able to build so quickly. it would take time for us to change our ways but i do agree with you.
        uniformity matters. modders using the limit flags the same allows us to use different mods together. by lumber abd bricks being under construction and the sand or clay being under raw materials, we can use the limits to control buildings and not overproduce items.or at least save us from filling barns everywhere with odd goods. brick,glass ,and lumber all under construction makes sence since they are all used together in building.

     for storage would a smaller version of the nordic wharehouse be helpful? a building that could be built earlier in game or just adding covers for the piles? what about storing in the buildings themself. like adding some lumber storage to the millglass storage to the glass factory,etc? though i hate the thought of the bannies digging them and carrying stuff in and out of them, cellars are am option. they can be placed beside the workplace and don't take up much space.  i used to have some that were only 1 space but could be used to add extra storage space to different buildings. in RL,fqactories would store some finished products.someone would come get them more than the factory would deliver each piece.

Online Nilla

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To lumber:

I find, lumber as a building material in Banished is good. The way I see it; lumber is wood, that's been prepared to build with, also for the primitive buildings. Here the logs are cut by the builders to lumber with an ax. I agree with you @Discrepancy; to build these first simple buildings is too fast and easy. Later, when saw mills were developed, it was much faster done with the "prepared" lumber. In my world, it ought to be much faster to build a similar wooden house with lumber than with raw logs.

As I said; to flag lumber together with logs is for me a "worse case". I really dislike it. In most of my games, logs is the only product, I active and deliberate use the limits for; letting the forester automatically only plant in times, as there's a lot of logs in my stores. This gives a higher, more sustainable production in my forests. I would hate to see this destroyed by lumber. I've never used this limit for bricks; simply because there are already two brick products; bricks and roof tiles, that you have to keep track on manually anyway. So it wouldn't help to stop produce bricks, when the limit is reached, you might be out of roof tiles. A third product here is much less disturbing. To me it's the "least bad" option" to flag lumber together with bricks.

I can understand, that you are bothered about the merchant, who buys wood to a good price in the big port @Tom Sawyer . Of cause he doesn't only want the logs, he wants lumber as well. Historically correct would be to want lumber only. The whole coast area of North Sweden became very prosperous, as the saw mills were developed in the 19th century. But would it be so bad, if he also would bye bricks and roof tiles to the higher price? I don't think, that many people would spam the map with clay pits, that run empty after a while, to build an export business with bricks. And if they do; why not? I guess, there have been areas, who lived from brickmaking as well. It would also not hurt much, if the merchant, who brings bricks, that you'll need initially, also would offer a few lumber. Probably you wouldn't want to buy them, but there are so many other products from the merchants, you don't want to buy/ can't afford to buy. Another wouldn't hurt much. Mostly I order bricks, roof tiles and glass anyway. I see no difference, if the merchant also would offer lumber.

I will speak more about these merchants some other time. I haven't had the big port long enough, to have a real opinion. I can only say generally; so far in this game; it's harder to support the population with vegetables, than it was in my last game I played without farming in the North. Not because I canīt pay for it. The merchants who arrive to the dock, simply bring too little vegetables. Even when I order, they may bring 1000 or sometimes, if I order peppar only 300. Grain works OK. I will see, if it improves now, with the big port. Another option would be the food port from the jetties (on a location where merchants arrive) but I will wait and see, how the supply work with the Nordic merchants only.

Yesterday's gaming wasn't really good: Full of bugs; merchants not arriving, crashes.........., disturbance in log production because of the lumber, a big fire, I also didn't found anything new about the happiness system (or maybe one small little thing, I want to test in another game) but nothing bothered me much. I simply was in a good mood. Listening to Johnny Cash, normally not "my kind of music" I'm more the "rockīn roll kind of person", but who doesn't like Johnny Cash? I also found a new favourite song; strongly recommended to listen to, especially if you are someone who says; "I don't like country music", "I don't like punk rock" or "I don't like Reggae music".... The "County legend" Johnny Cash singing together with the "Punk legend" Joe Strummer "Redemption Song" from the "Reggae legend" Bob Marley. It was new to me and absolutely great.

First picture

Quite a few buildings destroyed by fire. Not so bad like on the film on your web page @Tom Sawyer  ;) but bad enough.

Second picture

The farmers workplace doesn't look good together with the upgraded the house. I find the green roof most disurbant, the raw wood less. People wouldn't necessarily have painted their outhouses, but an alternative with a roof like the other outhouse would fit better, or maybe a free standing extra workplace. Maybe you've planned, that these workplaces will get out of use in an industrial area, but I still use them and will  need them for quite some time longer. Because of this map with little forest, it also makes sense to upgrade all houses. I need less fuel now after many houses are upgraded. For this game I will try to move the workplaces and see, if I can add them to a small storehouse, the diary hut, the ale house or some other building in the "old style" I want to keep.

Third picture

I've noticed something that might be a problem in a larger settlement. Innkeeper steal from eachother! As much as they can!

I import alcohol. In this game without farming, it's easier, than to produce it yourself. At least for now. I only use an innkeeper to fill the inn. After I built the second more modern inn (one of my favourite Nordic buildings), I put an innkeeper in it. After a while, I noticed, that the happiness started to get down for seemingly no reason. I discovered, that the innkeeper from the yellow inn had emptied the green roof inn totally. There was nothing left! On this picture, I've just relocated him to the other inn and he has started to carry it back. I've also noticed, that very much alcohol can be stored in one inn.

Here with 2 inns it's manageable. But I see problems to get an equal distribution on a big map with several inns.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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That goats can only live with cheap corn from overseas must be a rumor planted for trade war.^^ Also that Tom the locker doesn't want people playing with sweet bouncing goats. I have never seen any.. *looking around for Brads plank thingy* ;D

With lumber it looks like a firewood issue only. All other problems are solved by being under Wood and not mixed with other materials. Just imagine if together with bricks. Setting this limit to calm down your lumber mill and to keep logs available for firewood your brickmaker will start to strike and your glassmaker also or vice versa. It would end up in not using this limit at all and to micromanage everything without solving the firewood. To have bricks and tiles in one flag is already not really good but to put also wood and glass into it will make it even worse. At least that's my concern.

Discrepancy's idea of making firewood from both logs or lumber sounds to me as a simple and efficient solution. So lumber as modern counterpart of logs with a wood industry turning them directly into lumber for efficient building and trade. Making firewood would be just the same as in old times using the same category. You would just shift your cutters to use lumber and probably you would make firewood by sawmills anyway.

About building time I also agree with DS that it's to short in general. My current rule is 1 work per recourse used in building. So a log cabin made from 36 logs and 12 stone needs 48 work. To include lumber, logs as building material can need a nerf in required work time. That sawing lumber makes sense in a way Nilla is talking about since a long time. Let's say to use a log in building needs 2 work and a lumber only 1 work because it is already in a suitable shape. Then the effort of running a lumber mill can pay off and makes sense besides looking nice.

So far my current opinion and more convinced of lumber than before. :)

The Innkeepers seem to be in a trade war also.^^ That's not easy to solve and actually intended since the Tavern should be able to get stuff from the brewing Ale House. And the Ale House has to be a storage location to store it in itself.

Edit wanted to say that the idea was actually to have an Ale House in early game and to run a Tavern/Brewery combination later. Or to use the ale house then as brewery. So some things to play around with but two taverns getting stuff from outside will not like each other and only a market between probably solves it.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 12:31:34 PM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline RedKetchup

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about lumber vs wood vs firewood...

the thing i find very sad is we cannot set a number produced for each case. the number produced are set in the rawmaterialfile.rsc
i would love to say : 1 log = 10 firewood, 1 lumber = 4 firewood but we cant. the number is set once and have to deal with that number
another thing i find it sad, it is the time it takes to make a production. again you cannot set different number for different production. if you take by lumber mill, i would love to see it produce firewood to if the player want that, but woodcutter takes 2 works units to make a batch, while my lumbermill take like 12 units to make a lumber. so if my lumbermill would do firewood, it would be 6 times slower than the real woodcutter. if i would speed it up, i would also speed up the lumber and making lumbers every seconds... would be insanely too fast.

this game need to be able to set the amount created and the time it takes for each recipe.
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Online Nilla

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This time I don't understand your arguments @Tom Sawyer. Lumber flagged together with wood is not a firewood issue. Or wrong; it is also a firewood issue, but it's mainly a raw material issue. It makes the primary production of logs less efficient. It takes away the possibility to use the limit for logs for the forester; the only limit I regularly use, in my way of playing. That's the part I don't like. In my world logs is the importand basic for lumber, as well as for firewood.

OK, you're right, when you say that the limit for bricks, rooftiles and lumber stays more or less useless, when you put them together. It already is today, with bricks and rooftiles. But as little as you would be able to "calm down" the lumber mill with these 3 materials together, you could "calm it down"  together with logs. Here it has an unpleasant influence on the foresters instead of the brickmaker. You don't take away possible extra micromanagement, you introduces a new one. Gives us another "useless" limit; logs+lumber.

I've played a lot with Red's big mod lately, where brick, rooftiles, lumber, glass and thatch has the same flag. I had some issues with thatch as fodder for my horses, but never because of too much micromanagement of the producers of building materials. I have more problems here with lumbermill and forester.

I also approve the idea of making firewood from lumber, if needed. But if it was realistic I would like, that a forester made 2-3 logs and 2-3 firewood from one tree and that a lumber mill would make 2-3 lumber and 2-3 firewood from each log. Thatīs how it works in real. (Maybe some other numbers, I haven't really thought about what would make sense). Something like this would maybe also solve the problems @RedKetchup is talking about.

I don't think a market in between inns would solve anything. (Do alcohol land at the market?It hasn't before, but of course it's possible to make it that way.) But even if some would land there, my guess is, that the innkeepers "at war" would sweep it away in no time. But a lower limit on how much alcohol could be stored in an inn, would solve much. Probably not if you're short on alcohol but if you have enough. At least they wouldn't steal from eachother, if they have enough themselves. I hope I will be able to buy enough grain soon, to also produce in my inns, to see what happens then. I guess, the war will go on.  ;) :P

Offline RedKetchup

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but @Nilla also we cannot ask 2 things to drop on the ground in same time, it would be one or the other randomly or by recipe choice.
i would also loved to being able to ask drop 2-3 lumber + 2-3 firewood.
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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I made some tests to have this lumber thing more clear for myself.

First I put lumber in Custom5 together with bricks running a brickyard, a couple of foresters and the lumber mill from DS Industry, trying to find a setup without micromanaging where nothing is overproduced and enough fuel for heating homes is save. The first problem came soon. The brickmaker stopped at the limit hit by the lumbermill. The limit had to be raised until it was hit again. I finally gave them a 999999 to let it run. But the brick limit is important. It controls the use of clay and firewood. If I have 100 bricks and need 100 tiles I can go to the brickyard ordering tiles setting the limit to 200. It will make these 100 tiles and then waiting for next order without burning all my firewood for stuff I don't need and only stopping when clay is out or people start to freeze. That's not the only problem but for me already the point to cancel the idea of a brick/lumber combination.

Next with lumber in Wood. Burning clay and firewood into bricks under control but I have to look at stock piles to see if the wood counter in my overview window means logs or lumber. I don't really feel comfortable with that but at least I know it is wood in any shape and can be cut into firewood. Setting a limit stops foresters and lumber mill at the same time and with the current ratio of logs and lumber. So my little wood industry under control? In a way yes, but.. I have enough wood to build but not to build everything since logs and lumber are not interchangeable on building sites. Similar with fuel. I know I have enough wood to turn it into fuel but I have to switch my cutters if it is only lumber. That's not nice and I have to keep an eye on my fuel counter. For some reason I always also had logs and never only lumber. Probably because both forester and mill stop at the same time. So my cutters could continue cutting logs making the limit free for the foresters bringing new logs. The amount of lumber was more or less stable because I did not build. Only sometimes the mill got logs to make some turns.

In summary the second scenario works somehow but I cannot say that I like it. I want full control and it is killing my fun in this game if I have to run around in my growing town checking productions manually or to have a screen full of UI like a spaceship console.

For me the only really good solution with lumber as new material in game is a separate flag. Maybe to free custom3 to have Glass, Lumber, Clay and Bricks in a row from custom3 to 5. But where to put charcoal which is also an important limit to save firewood or what else to remove. I don't know yet.

One little thing I noticed with the lumber mill. I would like to hear it working, sawing wood. It was confusing to not get feedback from this building. It's ToolType _toolType = Saw; Please :)

Offline brads3

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TOM,you are finding  what we players have found. there is no best way to sove it with the limits we have.as RED says we need to be abe to set products individually. when you put 1 chain completely under a imit flag it stops it at a weird point. happened with RED's fodder. the chain would get overstocked at the bottom end,the fodder,and shut down the fertiizer.this led to starvation since the chain coudnt produce food. RED split the chain between a few limit flags.now it will fiunction smoother but then the fertiizer and fodder gets stored everywhere. then there had to be more adjustments.
       
         in your case the wood chain would be stopped at a bad spot. logs,firewood,lumber all from trees is all affeced at once.you will notice it when the bannies start to freeze.in your test, what hit the imit and stopped the brick? if you needed those items for construction,then the laborers shoud be moving them out of storage to the build sites. then they arent counted against the limit.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Brad, actually I'm satisfied how it works and with current North flags almost everything can be controlled perfectly. Only for lumber I don't have a free slot at the moment and cannot really include it. In my test, lumber stopped the brickyard trying to save logs for firewood.

Online Nilla

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I agree; the "flagging" in the North is better than with any other mods. But also here, there are some more and some less useful limits. Say textiles; I guess, no one can really use it (except at the very beginning of a game when you only have hides) but on the other hand, I don't see any alternatives.

Quote
But the brick limit is important.

Sorry@Tom Sawyer, I don't agree. I never use it. Probably for the same reason, I don't use the textile limit; it regulates more than one product. And you need to have some control on both anyway and develop a strategy for this with other means. You described the only case, I can think of, where it might be useful; You have a lot of bricks and will produce a certain amount of rooftiles. But this is a very rare case, that if you play well, you also ought to avoid; I mean running out of roof tiles, while you have a lot of bricks. One more thing, that also makes this limit less important, is that you don't need, that awfully much bricks. I use to micromanage clay pit, bricks, rooftiles anyway. I would have done it the same way, also if the both brick products had their own limits.

But of course, setting lumber together with bricks takes away the possibility to regulate the lumber mills with a limit. I agree on that. And lumber could be a much more important product than bricks. The DS buildings need quite a lot of it. If you have enough logs (which I don't have here in this game but normally in a Nordic game) it makes very much sense, to produce a surplus of lumber to sell to the "Wood merchant" to a good price. It would be good with a working limit. I can agree on that, too. And I see no way to make it, unless it gets its own.

You didn't have a working limit for the lumber mill in your wood limit experiment either, Tom. And it this case, you also made it much more uncertain, to use the limit for wood for the foresters. To me it's an important limit, that I use, to regulate the production in my forests. You say, that you have the "wood industry under control". But this is only in a case, where you actually can make firewood from lumber. In this game I use the jetty lumber mill. It can't produce firewood from lumber. So a lot of lumber would cause a lack of firewood. Besides what you already describes; you may not be able to build what you want. To put lumber and logs together; you win nothing, but lose much more than together with bricks.

Other alternatives to "free" a flag for lumber would be to put glass and bricks together. You've already put clay and sand together, both need firewood, so they are somehow already connected. I don't use the glass limit much either, only occasionally as a "reminder", not to control the production, like I do for logs. But glass might be a more important product than bricks. It has a more sustainable raw material than bricks and can be used to produce profitable glassware. I think, I would prefere glass+bricks over lumber+bricks. (logs+lumber is still worse case for me).

Other limits I rarely use are those for coins, gold and silver; no goods you produce. It wouldn't hurt now, to put some of them together and free a flag or two. But if I remember it right, you have plans to make some production and DS already have a silver mine, and in such a case, these limits get another purpose, that should be considered by changes. Another limit I don't use is "utensils". Not so sure what it contains, but I guess, it's all these "odd" building materials; iron fittings, traps, wheel barrows, wagon parts and maybe also lampoil (or where is it else?). I'm not sure, that these things need limits, (too many products to really use a limit) but I guess they have to "flagged" in some way and I see no categories, where they would belong. Salt and sugar with a separate limit is nice but maybe not necessary. They could be flagged as inedible food (or maybe as an utensil). That would work, as long as you only buy these products. But what is, if you use other mods and starts to produce salt and/or sugar? I had a lot of EB saltmines in my last Nordic game, I don't remember, that I used any limit. I think I just produced as much as I could. But in any case, I don't think that you ever would produce so much, that it would disturb the food limit, even if it counted as food.

It's not easy and there's no obvious solution. It will be interesting to see what you'll decide @Tom Sawyer. Usually you find good solutions to various problems. (Just please, don't let it stay in wood)

I just see I didn't make many screenshots yesterday; only these both.

First picture

My extended inn. Look like the innkeeper need more space to store all the booze he stole from his competitor. ;) But actually; I find the Farmer's Workplaces looks fun on these location. At least I like it much better than on a red house. I hope you don't disapprove, if I "misuse" the buildings, Tom.

Second picture


Not sure I should show this. A really stupid mistake I had to pay a lot for.  :-[ :(
Maybe it will help someone to be a bit more careful, than I was, if I swallow my pride and show it. I wanted to demolish the store on the docks. After I finally got some eggs (I don't know how many times I had to order before I got some) I wanted to build a Jetty Chicken Coop on that spot instead, but I demolished my beautiful and expensive hospital instead. :(
It is a bit difficult to locate buildings right and to "find" the right building, if you want to demolish anything on the jetties. My advice; better control it an extra time. I will from now on.


Offline brads3

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you have weird flags over there. i think utensils is crafted items. they could be using forged. custom 0 or 1.NILA talks like there are more splits glass and brick are construction material,custom 5.silver and gold is precious,custom 6. TOM do you have a differest setting? can you give us your list?
     only issue i have is  when adding mods to the north what will happen? will there be conflicts to cause fatal errors? will a good from a mod not interact. say you make lumber via a KIDDs sawmill will it not be used as lumber per the north in building? same woud apply to salt and some other items.

        whatever the limits TOM used for version 6 is working well. the bloomery doesnt function but that is due to having iron ore not bloom. the building chains haven't failed to function. so far only the older CC glass maker has failed to work since it couldn't store the new sand.the shorehouse did produce clay that was used by the nordic trade post. with TOM and RED's codings,many things do work more than expected. am surprised the game didn't give double tags on several items.no majpr conflicts especially if TOM is using different limit flags.

Online Nilla

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Yes @brads3, the flags are different in the North. You can see them all at the production menu at the picture.

How do we use these limits by playing? There are several different ways.

A. Active regulate how much of a certain material is produced. You would have some overproduction, if you raised the limit. but you let deliberately the workers stop, when the limit is reached. The unemployed worker makes something else (mostly laborer's work) until some of the store is consumed. Then he goes back to work automatically. A nice and easy way, to hold the store on a good level without micromanagement.

B. A reminder, that it's time to micromanage. When the set limit is reached, you take the worker away and assign him to something else.

C. A help to hold track on the amount of a certain good in store. You just need to take a fast look on the overview window and don't need to search in the town hall inventory (if you have a townhall) to know how much you have.

D. Look at my beloved statistics in the production menus and graphs. To help long term planning.

We could also add, that these flags also decide how something is stored. As player, you have no means to regulate this, only adapt your playing to the facts. But as modder, it's also important to consider this. (remember the fertilizer next to meat and cabbage in barns ;) )

How do I normally use the limits?

A. Active regulating
I must confess, I don't use this option much. In a normal game, I use it for logs and firewood. If I have foresters, it's very convenient to let them work towards a limit. When they stop, they don't stop working as foresters, but they don't cut any trees, they only plant. This means, that when you later need logs, there are more mature trees and the productivity is high. It's an excellent limit to use automatically. This is the reason, I protest so much against using one limit for logs and lumber. Firewood is also good to regulate this way, especially in a Nordic game. Most firewood is used in winter, people use to stock their houses in spring and in late summer the stores are full again. The cutter get unemployed and work as laborers. A perfect time, to send them out in the woods to pick blueberries (without doing more micromanagement, than marking wild food to be collected). When winter comes and there's no more food to collect, the stores of firewood starts to sink and the cutter will automatically go back to work. I might use this also for charcoal and (iron)ore, especially if I have a lot of laborers.

B. Reminder
I use this a lot, especially at the beginning, when you don't have enough people to staff every production site. A tailor produces clothes until the limit sign shows. Then I reassign him to something else, maybe a blacksmith. He produces iron until the sign shows and I can change the production to tools, until that sign is shown and he will go back to the clothing. (or something like that).

I've also used this for clay. When the limit is reached, I let the worker produce bricks until all clay is gone, than again clay to the limit and after that rooftiles until the production stops. This is what I mean, when I say " develop other strategies" than to use the brick limit, when there are two products in the same limit. To put clay and sand together in one limit complicate this a bit (I make the same with sand/glass.) You have to pay more attention, but so far, it still works in this game.

C. I look at the overview to see, that there are enough food, fuel, clothes, and tools for your Bannis at the moment. It's also good to see quick, that you have enough raw materials to produce these essential things and enough building materials to develop your settlement.

D. Normally I use the statistics for food and fuel. Sometimes also for clothing and tools. Seldom for other things.

I've been thinking a bit lately, about setting these flags and limits. If i had a wish on what I would like to have ; it would be each food category a limit of its own. I would find that far more interesting, than many other now separated categories (in the North as well as in the CC way of flagging). This would open new ways to regulate the over all important production of food automatically. I don't know, if I really would use it, if I had the possibility, but it would be interesting to try.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2018, 12:50:23 PM by Nilla »

Offline brads3

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if you need to find something specific in the inventory.it is handy to have another townhall and leave it set to alphabetical.lot easier to find the amount of brick or glass.i do wish the townhall could sort by flag all food or textiles in 1 menu would be useful.

        yes,they limits do matter to storage and i think we need more barns for some items. REd and EB made good market sets.and the other modders have adjusted from storing everything so we dont mix fertilizer with food now. but most barns store general items not the newer items. sometimes you want to quick store things and then have a merchant farther away move them. so a market isn't the right option.plus some markets don't fit the style of the town.they are nicer and belong in towns. like now i have a forest village producing several things like lumber with only a pile or NECORA's pine shed.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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About lumber.. That's not only my decision since it is Discrepancy's content. I don't have lumber or sawmills yet and just want to have a better solution for his mods than putting it together with bricks. By default (without patching) it would be there.

I put the 6.1 beta flags in attachment @brads3. I don't mind to discuss them to find a better place for lumber or other improvements. It is in two sheets because it slightly changes in late game. To the mentioned flags it needs some explanation.

Utensils are a category for various crafted things like glassware, pottery, traps and also lamp oil (which is a candidate for a separate flag). It's using custom0 and fully compatible with CC "Crafted". I just think that "Utensils" hits this small and occasionally used stuff better and tools or clothes are crafted items too. Also I want a short noun but maybe someone finds a better term. To set this limit in game doesn't make much sense or only to avoid overproducing anything from there. It's actually a collection category to not confuse important resources. To make them uncategorized to free a flag for lumber is tricky and they could not be imported anymore.

Textiles is indeed also not much used as limit and it can be an option to join it with any other raw materials stored in barns. At least it is used for wool production, tanning and linen weaving. Also for special storage. Changing this flag should be well thought.

Salt is separate not to limit production. But to make it able to be auto-imported, provided in markets and to keep track of it in overview window. Sugar joins this category in late game being also an additive for food processing. They can be in another category but players who like to preserve food will lose these trading and overview features.

Sand was in a separate flag in 6.0 and had to join clay because Alcohol was used again for happiness pushing crafted goods to custom0 for better compatibility. Actually I wanted sand together with ore (quartz as another raw material from the ground) to keep Clay as counted building material. But it's also ok for me this way. I want to use clay mainly for old frame houses made from wood and clay with waddle and doub construction and sand joins it later when clay becomes a raw material for brick making. Maybe it can be an option to put clay, sand and ores into a "bulk goods" category stored on piles and used as limit for miners. It would be a loss of control over specialized materials but would make a flag free for lumber. Not sure about this. Actually I like the clay and ore counter.

Other opportunities are in the trading system. I use custom6 and 7 to mark different trade goods. Counting gold and silver separate is only a side effect of it but nice to have since gold together with cheap silver becomes a meaningless number. Custom8 is the old currency with gold and silver including the old penning coin while merchants in the industrial late game work money based with custom9. So it's a construct of multi used flags to create this by regions and time diversified trading system. Taking away one flag there will flatten it.

The question for me in every case of a change is if perfect control of lumber adds more fun to the game than the feature I have to remove for it. Also compared to having just generic wood. :)