Author Topic: Nilla-testing the spring version of the North6 together with DS jetties  (Read 3723 times)

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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I loaded your game yesterday. It is not the one with up and downs but with too low happiness for all the buildings you have. First I built a church with priest and it raised up to 90%. I don't know why not more. Turning off any other building it goes down, so everything else is working. You did not have any death and nobody has only 2 stars which is the only case we know as "memory" effect from where they don't recover. Maybe there is any other such effect as you mentioned. That people who were sad because of ragged clothes at the start cannot become fully happy anymore or something like that. I also don't have another explanation yet but we will find out. Btw, one thing I tried is to give them all different foods and I got a small effect of 2 or 3%. That might be this aspect caused by Lukes lines of "min/max food items for happiness". But it doesn't explain the limited graph.

Offline Nilla

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I don't understand this, it's the right save; Veniceville April 24. I downloaded and checked it. Now I don't have these waves, not when I load my original save either. As I said I played it about 5 times; always waves. I have no idea what could have happened. The one different thing now, that I didn't see in any of the other times I played that save, is that one farmer has the "idling decease" and walks between idling places insted of harvesting. But how could this make the change? ???

I have some more findings. I'm pretty sure, that no clothes at the beginning causes, that it's harder to get people happy later in the game. I made a lot of screenshots from a new game: Farmers, Norseman.

First picture
Start. Everyone except 1 child has no clothes.
Second picture
It didn't take long and it looked like this.
Third picture
But it will get worse, by everyone except the child with the clothes and for some reason, I don't understand one adult.
Fourth picture
But things soon improved without understandable reason, by everyone except the person who wasn't as miserable before.
Fifth picture
If they have a house or not doesn't matter, adults without coats are really miserable, children not quite so, and those with coats have recovered to 3 stars and will stay that way.
Sixth picture
With a well some of the people without coats who lived in the houses recovered stars, even without a coat.
Seventh picture
Everyone have a coat and everyone have 3 stars. You can see the over all graph.
Eighth picture
With all happiness buildings, all children and 50% of the adults (in every house 1 with 5 * and one with 3 *) are happy. Well, market, sauna, church with priest only made a few people happy. You can see the first little leap up.

I'm pretty sure, there is some kind of memory and also that no clothes at the beginning causes some of these problems. There might be more things as well. I will start another game now with shepherds. They have coats from the start and the sheep make it easier, to always have coats. We will see, if I can get everyone happy.

Online RedKetchup

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well , i think all those "yellow stars" gone look very very good ! i will need to be explained (how to mod to get that result)
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Offline Nilla

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I´m pretty sure, that all stars gone isn´t modded, or at least not intentional modded. But maybe we´ll find out how. ;)

Offline Nilla

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I played my very similar game with "Shepherd" start. (Everyone have a coat from the start) It's also easy to produce enough coats all the time. And this time, I got everyone except 1 person happy. I haven't seen any reason for him to be unhappy, but I guess we must accept a few not understandable things. Maybe the number of different food, that you speak about @Tom Sawyer have an impact, maybe something else.

So, clothing from the start are important. I have seen, that many of the start options lack coats. I find, that there should be enough coats in every startcondition, except a couple of really hard one (Survivor, Gold seeker)

I think - Short term; clothing from the start and a possibility to put a priest in the small chapel, would improve the possibilities to manage Ironman. At least I would give it a try. Long term; smaller houses; nicer looking 4 person houses and maybe some small easy to build 3 person house (such a house could even make it possible to survive the start on "harsh" with "Ironman". At least i don't think, that you can do it now. If it´s then possible to survive a longer game is another question.) and some additional food processing, mainly for vegetables.

After playing that short "Ironman" game, my conclusion is, that you need to get to 5* happiness fast. Does it pay off to use 2 person (priest and innkeeper) and some from food produced/imported alcohol to increase the happiness by the people? I would say; yes it does and it does, already in a very small settlement. The innkeeper also make laborer´s work, when he's not busy brewing or producing roasted meat. So it's more or less only 1 unproductive priest to support. As I looked in that first game with the new "happiness system", it's minimum 10% loss of productivity with only 3 stars. So in "best case" 1 priest pays off, when there's 10 producing adults. Normally even earlier, because I also saw 35% production loss.

On the picture, you can see the graph. The first heap to about 80%was the brewey with alcohol, the last (everyone except one happy) the big church. By the way, the name of this settlement is random!  :D


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Wow, your Swedes made a graph like a textbook example @Nilla. So Luke did not only include depression after loosing family members but also post traumatic stress disorder? I can't believe it.^^

Starting as farmer without clothing was not my intention. Builders seem to have the same issue caused by overloaded carts without free space for coats. That will be fixed with coats for everyone. I also put 2 coats into Anders and Ellas bag. They should become a happy couple. Thank you for making all these tests and conclusions. I will make a hotfix.

@RedKetchup. I already wrote it somewhere in my main thread and of course it's no secret. Scaling the happiness range is a simple change in Citizen.rsc:citizen and I use the following values:

float _maxHappiness = 1.25; //vanilla: 10 (now default = 60%, vanilla 95%)
int _minFoodForHappiness = 4;
int _maxFoodForHappiness = 32; //vanilla 12
float _happinessUpdateInMonths = 0.33; //vanilla 3 (now every 50 sec at speed 2)
int _workForHappiness = 10;
float _unhappyLevel = 1.0; //vanilla 0.6;
float _depressedLevel = 0.25;
int _idleRange = 25;

The rest and actual work was reworking the main mod with a couple of new buildings and a good balance of alcohol, happiness circles and so on.

Offline Nilla

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Quote
I will make a hotfix.

That would be nice. I will wait and start another "ironman" attempt.

These;  min/maxFoodForHappiness and workForHappiness do you know what they mean?

Online RedKetchup

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@RedKetchup. I already wrote it somewhere in my main thread and of course it's no secret. Scaling the happiness range is a simple change in Citizen.rsc:citizen and I use the following values:

float _maxHappiness = 1.25; //vanilla: 10 (now default = 60%, vanilla 95%)
int _minFoodForHappiness = 4;
int _maxFoodForHappiness = 32; //vanilla 12
float _happinessUpdateInMonths = 0.33; //vanilla 3 (now every 50 sec at speed 2)
int _workForHappiness = 10;
float _unhappyLevel = 1.0; //vanilla 0.6;
float _depressedLevel = 0.25;
int _idleRange = 25;

The rest and actual work was reworking the main mod with a couple of new buildings and a good balance of alcohol, happiness circles and so on.

Thanks you Tom
overall i think thats a very good idea in long time because it pushes player to satisfy more consciously their citizens
i would love too to have a better health system too and make it more important.
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Online brads3

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i agree with that. LUKE had good ideas that he didn't finish. i think there is lots he intended that he didn't give us or modders enough clues to unlock. TOM can those happiness codes be made into a mod that would affect even a vanilla game?  not a request.

when NILLA masters this and the health,we will send her to unravel markets.

Offline Nilla

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@brads3, you can use Norsemen in vanilla, it's not directly connected to the North. (at least that's how I understand it.) But of course the North buildings are adapted to this happiness system with visible radius, of a size, that make sense.

I have never really had any issues with markets, In my games they always work well enough. My guess is that your loads of mods sometimes makes them work better, sometomes not so good. And to investigate these loads of mods and how they work together, is your thing, not mine! :)

Online brads3

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thanks a lot. you forget i lost my notes?  :'(     it isn't about better really. there is subtle differences between different modders or markets.i also think there are hidden "gems" that LUKE coded.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Yes, you can play with changed happiness in every other scenario @brads3. Just use one of the citizen mods. Would be interesting how it works in CC with luxury items and so on. I guess it can be fun to play. Only with too large detraction circles it will be hard to make people happy. Same in vanilla where 30 tiles detraction around a mine is way too much because every detraction circle removes one of the 5 happiness aspects.

How the min/max food values work, I don't know exactly @Nilla. I guess it defines a range to give them an additional bonus but it is a very small effect. I just increased the max value because I have already about 50 food items and wanted to keep Lukes idea working.

How "work for happiness" works I also don't know. The only logical case for me is that it's an amount of work cycles they have to do when idling before going back to work. It can be tested but I did not yet because I'm actually satisfied with the current 10-30% difference of productivity.

I made changes of veges and chapel and also want to add the goahti as a survival item for early game. It will be easier to get a viable start as Survivor in harsh climate, even in Ironman mode, where in current version it always ends in a "last man standing" scenario. It will somehow remove this thrill but also the frustration and that's good. I finished my old sketch and have to make textures now. Then I will upload this balancing hotfix. Here the blank model as a little heads-up. :)

http://www.banishedventures.com/images/Goahti.png
Nilla-testing the spring version of the North6 together with DS jetties



Offline Nilla

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That hut or tent what we call "Same kåta" looks great. I had to look up your name "goahti" and that's the name of the building in the language of the North Sami people. I would keep that name. It doesn't take much of the difficulty away from the "survivor" start. When you once know, how to make it, the biggest thrill is gone. My guess is that "Ironman" on harsh with "survivors" will have enough of this "thrill", you speak about, even if you can build these "Sami tents" as Google translate says in English.

I may have some new findings. I haven't played much this weekend. The children were here, but they are gone now, so I can continue the latest "start up game". I'm pretty used to starts now. ;) Maybe this one is even a "keeper". I was curious on this "min food for happiness" thing, so in this game I really try to give my Bannis as many different kind of foods as possible. I buy as much different kind of food I can afford, also salt and sugar and make salted meat and jam. In other games I normally salt, smoke or roast meat, here I try to make all at the same time. It doesn't always work, but often they have more than 4 different kind of food in their homes.

Look at the picture, what happened! I'm surprised! I didn't know, that you could reach 5 stars without church and without inn. OK, it's just one person and it's not all the time. But this is new; I haven't seen it before. I'm curious to see what will happen, when I build a church and an inn.

This game is "Ironman" with a "Shepherds" start. I've cut in the settings. Same mods as before.


Offline Nilla

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Just as I hoped: with inn and church they are 100% happy. :)

So I think we can say; if we want everyone (not most of them) happy after we've built all these happiness buildings, they need a coat from the start and a lot of different food.

I'm not sure, how these min/maxFoodForHappiness work; But I'm sure, that the number of different foods have an influence. (Not food categories, they have an impact on the health) Must they have at least 4 different foods to be happy? Most of the time, they had more, but there were also times, when it was less in some houses. Does this mean, that they get happier for each different food they have, until they have 24 different? Nr 25 doesn't bring any additional happiness? (Never had that many) How can this be seen? I guess not, when you have all happiness buildings; It could be that 4 different is enough for 100%. But maybe, if some building is missing or if they live in the influence of some unhappiness building, this might have a larger impact. Aftere all I had one 100% happy, even without the "important buildings". By the way; he lost 2 stars, when he moved out from home. Mammy's food is always the best! ;)


Online RedKetchup

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hey i was playing and checking my tavern new recipes.. along with my malt house to see it was working as intented...
i noticed something.... is there a way @Tom Sawyer  to restrict 1y-4y children to idle and consume tons of alcohol all the time like crazy for nothing? lol
they go stand in a tile, drink 1 alcohol and then move. they move 2 tiles further or crossing and they stop drink another alcohol and then move on. move another 2 tiles, stop and drink again another one... infinitely till they decide to go in the wood..... and they can have 0y ... 1y... 3-4y ... till they go to school lol

it is not the fact alcohol numbers go down so fast as soon some are created that disturb me... thats the fact they have 0y-4y ! my roommate is drinking all the time like crazy enormously till he doesnt have a cent left all the time... some adults are doing this... but a 0y-5y old ?? even if it would be a milk bottle... any child wouldnt empty so many milk bottle in RL without exploding lol
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:52:17 AM by RedKetchup »
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