Author Topic: Nilla-testing the spring version of the North6 together with DS jetties  (Read 3723 times)

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Offline Nilla

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I've made the same observations as you @RedKetchup, even if I can't describe it as funny as you can; Bannis children are alcoholics at the age of 5!  :( The main consumers of alcohol!

Online RedKetchup

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I've made the same observations as you @RedKetchup, even if I can't describe it as funny as you can; Bannis children are alcoholics at the age of 5!  :( The main consumers of alcohol!

i ve sent an email to Luke about this like 2 hours ago. will see if i can get an anwser on this :)
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Offline Gatherer

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Perhaps it's because they don't have anything else to do. Too young for school and work and so much free time. Could be hardcoded as a higher chance for everyone to drink alcohol if available when idling and since children idle more...
Fiat panis

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Your last chart looks interesting with a first step already to 90%. I did not see that in tests even with a priest first and alcohol later. Maybe really due to mommy's food.^^

That little bannies go idling in taverns is not a big problem in my opinion, if it can be brewed or bought in a good amount. But I don't mind if it could be restricted to a certain age. At least there are lots of more important things I would like to have fixed by Luke and I still hope he will do something here and there for this game.

About the goahti I was also looking for a nice English term. Wiki says so from Sami language. Your Swedish kåta is a german Kate or Kote which leads to an English cottage, the frenchified form of the old "cote". In a youtube video an English speaking Sami granny calls exactly this one a "winter cottage". So I suppose it would not be wrong to name it as Sami Cottage or Sami Cote. And the bannies probably already wonder about all this boring theory since for them it's just any primitive survival hut made from some wood and stuff. ;D

Offline Nilla

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Here's a new report from Culica; the once very happy town. So, you might understand, everyone isn't happy anymore.

First I settled one family far out in the woods, outside any happiness building. It's one hunter and one trapper. I wanted to check this "int IdleRange 25". I guess it works like this; if there's no idling spot within 25 tiles, the Banni just stop his work where he is, and doesn't go anywhere. This is the "best form" of idling. No time is spent on the road. I've seen my trapper/hunter on rare occasions in the village, but mostly they just stop for a short while, idle a bit and goes on working out in the forest, where they belong. The production is alright, but could be better. There's another problem, caused by the ability to store meat in the Hunter's Lodge. Often there's only venison in the house (and sometimes a little salmon or smoked meat that the Bannis have carried from the village far out in the woods). There is a barn directly at the house. I let the laborers pick blueberries and mushrooms in that area, so it is often full of various food. Why do they prefere the meat from the hunters place? Anyway, they often stop working to go to the herbalist. That takes time. (and maybe they also get within an idling spot on these occasions).

You might remember @Tom Sawyer I had my doubts about storing meat in the Hunter's lodge. I would say after testing; like all stores for only one food category, it bring more disadvantage than advantage. At least in this game.

I plan to solve this by placing a Wagon Vendor out in the woods. I will not always have a vendor, just from time to time to fill it. Is this an idling spot, also without vendor? It doesn't bring any happiness, but maybe they still go there to idle, so maybe what you win in less walking to the herbalist, will be lost by walking to the idling spot. We will see. I just put it there but haven't looked, yet.

That was a planned reduction of happiness, but the next blow wasn't. But it brings to me new and interesting knowledge, about the happiness system. (or maybe not knowledge, rather more questions  :-\)

I accepted a nomad couple (that's the first small drop of happiness, since they have no house yet) unfortunately they brought mumps. More or less everyone was ill and 4 people died. I didn't remember that mumps was this lethal. This caused the happiness to drop. I have a cemetery, so strange enough, it wasn't the people who lost a family member, that became unhappy, not even the children, that might be unhappy also with a graveyard in a vanilla game, when a parent dies. It was their neighbors! Now I don't know, if it was the illness or the death of a neighbor that caused this. Not everyone is unhappy. Like in many of my other games, it looks random. Except the children out in the woods, all children are still happy. In some houses both adults are happy, in others both unhappy or one happy, one unhappy. The only pattern I can see, is that those, who lost a partner are all happy (!). It looks like the effect of the cemetery overrides other factors.

What is more to say about this game? I've been very, very careful with the population growth. There's only 4 person houses. I seldom take nomads and I also plan houses for new couples carefully. My goal is to never have more than 50% children. This way, it's no problem to feed the population. I have one problem. I've played 37 years and have only seen one(!) merchant, who offers grain and vegetable seeds. It took almost 20 years until one arrived. I could buy cabbage seeds and ordered barely and rye but that merchant (or a colleague) hasn't returned. I have now built a second port and hope that finally one will arrive. I must have been extremely lucky in that other game, as the second merchant brought barely seeds, without ordering. Fruit seeds are offered often, but never vegetables and grains.

I've noticed one strange thing: single fruit trees (apples) bring 56 apples, if they are fully grown; an orchard tree only about the half (?). It's of no big importance, but in a small settlement, micromanagement of single trees do pay off. They are also faster harvested, than the same number of orchard trees. You can see my fruit experiment in the village center. Lately I have a lot of fruit, so I don't always bother to harvest the single trees. But they look nice and if there's an emergency, it's always possible to micromanage. One more question; have you increased the life of the trees @Tom Sawyer? It's been a while since I grew fruit and I can remember, that I once developed a strategy, to always have fruit from two orchards. I planted the second orchard after the first full harvest of the first and the third orchard after the first full harvest of the second. When the third orchard started to bring fruit, the trees started to die on the first. It was time to replant it. But so far no tree has died, a long time has passed and I have a lot of fruit. No complains, trees live long in real, so it's a good change (that might have been there for I long time).

First picture

Lethal Mumps!  :'(

You can see the Bannis are well fed but unfortunately not much grain. I buy everything I can get without ordering. I guess, I should have set some orders, but I always have hoped that the merchant soon will bring the ordered seeds. As I ordered the cows, the next merchant brought some!

Second picture

I've marked the changes in happiness;

Yellow; settled a couple in the woods. (You can see their woodpile and the closed Wagon Vendor in the upper right corner)
Red; nomad couple is accepted
Blue; mumps
Green; new babies born happy and stay happy

The overall picture of the settlement doesn't look as nice as a normal Nordic settlelent. It would be nice, if the new goathi is for 3 people. We can get the same result as here, with only 4 person houses, mixing homes for 3 and 5. I think it could look nice with one Sami village and one settler village in the "viking style".

Online RedKetchup

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Bannis children are alcoholics at the age of 5!

they are alcoholics at the age of 0!!
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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56 from an apple tree is right and there cannot be a difference between solitary tree and orchards since its the same apple tree there. Maybe in your orchard the trees were not fully matured. Is there not such a mechanic? I don't know exactly. The life of fruit trees was indeed increased, to 20 years + tolerance.

The new kate kote goahti thingy I restrict to a couple with 1 child, poor energy efficiency and detraction for the inhabitants. So you have to build proper houses to make them happy after surviving the first time.  8)

Offline Nilla

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Banished is a cool game! :)

In this game I'm in year 52 and have 53 (!) inhabitants. I just went back to an old blog of mine; to my town Doolin. In year 30 it had a population of 4800 (!). You can really play Banished in different ways! :) http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=671.msg12177#msg12177 (if you don't believe me, by the way it didn't survive that big, but that was never the point). ;)

After these years and all these different games, I can still say; here is something I've never seen before.

First picture

I accepted a nomad couple. It wasn't the first. So far everyone had found their way into the village. Not this time. If you look at the menu; Emers is starving, stuck in the mountains on the wrong side of the river. His young wife/daughter whatever, doesn't starve. Why? She found her way into the village. ??? Have anyone seen this before? I haven't!

This picture also shows one more "secret" about the happiness. This man is starving. He has lost some stars. My guess is, that even if he now miraculously would get some food, he would stay this miserable the rest of his life. Why don't I think, that someone who has lost all stars because of starvation can recover?

Second picture

Because of this. The young Jailynn lost one star as her husband died, or was it her father? We will never know, because she's so traumatised, that she never speaks about it. In year 52 she still has only 2 stars. She married a young man from the village the first thing she did, became some children, lived a long time in a good house close to all happiness buildings, is always well fed with a lot of different foods and well clothed; her husband and children were totall happy.

I can see the same thing, by the people who lost stars, as they were ill and some neighbors died. The have never recovered any stars. My guess is, that they became unhappy as they were ill and there wasn't a doctor. I will test this theory my next decease (but of course, when you want a decease......  :-\ ) I have a hospital but no doctor yet. When one person gets sick, I will make a save and see what happens. Then go back to the save and assign a doctor and look again a bit closer and compare.

It's different with people who were never "traumatized".  I let the family who had lived out in the woods for a century (all 3 stars) change houses with a traumatized couple. It didn't take long until the whole family was totally happy in their new house in the village. (Of course nothing changed by the 3 star couple, now living out in the woods). This is also a strategy to keep most of the population happy. If someone have to live outside the happiness radius, better people who can't get happy anyway.

So, @Tom Sawyer, I don't know what kind of detraction the new building brings. If it's the "traumatizing" kind, I wouldn't use it. It would mean, that if someone once lived in a house like this, he could never be happy the rest of his life. I also find, that it ought to be possible, to use these huts permanently in a part of the village for "designing" reasons, without all too much punishment. I find bad heat economy might be enough.

To the fruit trees; an apple orchard with 20 trees brings 560 apples and a pear orchard with 20 trees 450 if it's full harvested (a single tree brings 56/45). They are all fully grown. Orchard trees give the half of a single tree. Are there some "tricks"; that you will harvest less, if you don't occupy a farmer all the time? I only use farmers to pick the fruit. But on the other hand, I never occupy a farmer all the time at a single tree either.

Third picture

An impression of the village in early spring. I've just built a big trading port and the merchants are racing, to visit us. ;)

By the way; it pays off to complain at WOB. After my last entry, the second boat brought the barley and rye seeds, I ordered 20 years ago and almost to the the same time another merchant brought bean seeds to the other dock ;)

Offline Tom Sawyer

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I have to look at these fruit trees. It sounds strange.

Detraction doesn't cause this trauma effect. It just removes one happiness aspect in this area. So taking your Swedes town, people living in this small peat goahti where it is tight, dark and smoky at the open fire all the time and not even healthy will stay at 80% happiness while all others reach 100% after everything is provided. If they can move in a log cabin or even in a modern red cottage with more space, proper oven and chimney, windows and such they will be fully happy. That's what I would like to simulate with it. To implement quality of life in terms of happiness as a feature of homes where we only have efficiency of size and firewood consumption yet.

Online brads3

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the apple trees are nice additions.i don't use them thou since they have to be micro managed. i don't see a way that this is possable but wish we had a village gardener.the gardener would harvest all the apples as well as roots,blueberries,other foods,herbs,and thatch from the town's yards.he could also cut trees that grow up  in the village. it makes sence the bannies would do this themselves.with the limitations of the game, i don't see it being possable.

Online RedKetchup

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but in fact thats possable !!
it needs to be set in the starting conditions though !
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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What did you mean to include in starting conditions @RedKetchup? I did not catch it.

With orchards I made a test to check this 100 vs. 50% yield thing. There is obviously a hard coded create chance = 2 of fruit trees. Just what we know from cropfields with a yield every 4 tiles but there we have control about it and can change it. Here not. My fruit trees have create chance = 1. So in orchards every second tree is harvested and if there is only 1 tree like in the solitary tree object then it's 100%. With 2 trees, the second is ignored, a third tree is again harvested and so on. That breaks the idea of my single fruit tree which was already not consistent since it could be placed without space and no way to define this. Probably the best to take it away. Again nice idea, but not really working.

Online RedKetchup

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What did you mean to include in starting conditions @RedKetchup? I did not catch it.

sorry. i probably misunderstood of what you were talking.
i was not thinking about orchards but more wild trees that drop their own fruits.

an idea i will probably explore in my RK Ed
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Offline Nilla

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I find these single trees nice and it doesn't matter, that they bring more fruit than an orchard tree. Not even a" micromanagement expert" like me, use them more than a few years, as the settlement is small. I still have a few, have even replanted some after they died, but I haven't harvested any for centuries; too much micromanagement. It's more for decoration. So as long as Brad's gardener doesn't walk about, I would leave them. OK, they can be misused and planted next to eachother, but I don't think, that anyone really would do this. I think, that you can leave some responsibility to the user. Even someone like me, that normally play without decorations, want a pleasant looking village and I´ve never planted these trees directly next to eachother.

i was not thinking about orchards but more wild trees that drop their own fruits.

an idea i will probably explore in my RK Ed

Sounds like a good idea.

This game is nice. It's still very slow. But I don't find it in any way boring. If I want to produce as much food as I use, I can't let the number of children be more than 50% of the adult population. That's the challenge here. And to manage this, I see no other option, than vanilla stone houses. ( here in the North for 4 people). The major difference from my last attempt on ironman is, that I can expand my fields. The laborers actually work, as they are sent to clear land. In that other "Ironman" game where (almost) everyone only had 3 stars, it took "for ever". I look a lot into the houses and slowly learn to understand the "happiness system". That's nice. :)

First picture
I wanted some more business out in the woods and I think, it pays off to try to make them happy. I said before, that I first built the Wagon Vendor, not for happiness, but to increase the health and prevent the inhabitants to only eat meat from the store in the Hunter's lodge. So far, it has only been occupied about every second winter. But it works as an idling location, even if it doesn't have a vendor. The good diet with no more walk to the herbalist and the close idling spot, made the production of the trapper increase 10-15%.

After I located the second family in this area, I built a well and a sauna. This happened: 7 inhabitants, 3 with 5 stars, 4 with 3 stars. They are all members of the church but live outside the happinesscircle of church and inn.

As next I built a small chapel out in the woods. Now everyone except the two children in the big house were happy. They might be sad, because they've just lost their mother. It was the traumatized nomad girl, with only 2 stars, who was killed by a falling tree. You can see also in a vanilla game, that some children get unhappy, when a parent dies, also when there's a graveyard. I had the fear, that this would give them a trauma, not possible to heal.

But I was wrong. After some time Therford moved to a girl in the village, who has occupied a house for herself since she was 11, and was so happy about this, that he forgot his dead mother. His sister Lemmalyn is now 16 and she still lives at home. The people who was traumatized from mumps, have all died of old age, so I think, she's the only person with only 3 stars. I guess it's time for her to move out! :)

Second picture
Since you see nothing of the settlement because of all the menus, I'll show you my little forest location "pure". Now 3 families live out there. I'm not sure, that it pays off to keep them happy. The buildings without vendors aren't the problem. They are an investment for a long time and I'm sure, that they will pay off eventually, even if it was for only one  family. But at what point is it profitable to occupy a vendor? I like to think about these kind of questions. So even if I was a bit frustrated in my first games, as there was so much I didn't understand, I'm very pleased, that you had this idea, @Tom Sawyer. THANK YOU FOR MAKING THIS! :)

Third picture
I realize, that I haven't showed any graphs or have talked about the gameplay. Here are some. I think most interesting is the food and occupation. Until this year, I have had too many children for quite some time. (First picture 48/29) It has just improved (61/28). I've produced a little bit less food, than I need for quite some time, but it's a safe game. I always like to hold big stores. I micromanage a little and switch occupations after the season. Here it's "spring occupation". All fields have a farmer assigned; I need a lot of farmers, to produce all this food. (Farming in the North isn´t as profitable as in vanilla, and different crops also have different yield, thanks for that!) :) 6 orchards also need a farmer in the summer. So I need to close some workplaces (they still run) and probably some production sites, like the charburner. I also use one herdsman for 2 pastures in the "farming period". I also micromanage the farming a bit, by starting the harvest manually and send some farmers, that have harvested all, to another field or orchard, that's late. It's not necessary in "good years" but doing it this way, gives me a full harvest also in "bad years". I rarely loose any crops.

Offline Nilla

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First picture
Modern times have moved into Cullica. Now we have a school.

I haven't mentioned any goals for this game. (Except trying to survive "Ironman" and understand the happiness system better). But I actually had a plan. I wanted to reach a population of 100 this way, I have played so far. That goal is reached. After that find a suitable time to build a school. As the students start to graduate, I will settle on the other side of the river with only educated people and slowly start some industry.

Second picture
A small group from the Sami people have joined the community. They all have "natural" occupations, like hunter, trapper, herbalist. No one understand why their storage and buildings, where they prepare their herbs and meat are much more modern and comfortable than the houses, where they live, with no windows and an open fireplace.  ;)

You can see, I tried a trick; not to locate the houses close to the Hunter's lodge/meat store, to avoid the same bad nourishment, as I had in the first forest settlement. I hoped, that they would get more mixed food from the close barn. It didn't really work, that barn is often more or less empty and the people have mostly meat in their houses. That's the reason, I've built the close herbalist. At least they don't have to walk all over the map for treatment.

You can see how less children compared to adults the last years, have an influence on the foodstore. We have had some "good years" with many adults. Now with all these students and no young people helping produce food, we again produce less food than wee need and the graph will turn downwards for some time. But soon some will graduate and I think, it will change again. It was a very good opportunity to build the school at this point. (Or this opportunity was actually planned, but it's nice to see that it worked out)