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Nilla- Hitchco, testing the latest version of the North

Started by Nilla, October 08, 2016, 02:37:40 AM

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Tom Sawyer

#15
No, that was already Nilla's guess and to guess is not the quest.^^ Read the description carefully:

"Go to the woods and find out, what happened with onions and roots." Quest reward: 100 XP and the new skill "Experienced Gatherers" (+10% yield of wild fruits).

Of course, the woods of the North Beta 4.0 are meant. And as far as I remember the RPG's I played, the quest is still available after a failure... But only the first one gets the reward.  :)

Nilla

I went into the Nordic wood with some weird thoughts about a disturbed ecosystem; heavily used by unbalanced, quite monocultured forestry and too high harvesting of delicate plants. But what did I find? We were right the whole time; The reindeer ate them! Here's prove!  ;D

(I'll write more about the game later this afternoon)

Nilla

Here's about the game. I have started to look on the production numbers and profit of the production sites. It didn't make much sense earlier, because I seldom had a constant production a whole year. I still micromanage between summer (focus on farming) and the rest of the year, but now I don't move all professions.

I have made an estimation of the yearly production value of each profession. If we think this way: Say the people eat about 25 from each food category every year. It's 25*5 (I have to buy wheat), 25*4 (apples)+ 25*2 (potatoes)+ 25*1(fish) = 300. They also need some firewood, tools, clothing, herbs.... say another 100. That means about 400 is "self supporting".

I looked at the yearly production and multiplied it with the difference between the value you get when you sell the product and the production costs, also using the values from selling.

I made 6 categories of professions depending on the yearly profit in trade value. There might be the one or another miscalculation and of cause, the variation between years, locations, amount of close stored raw material, size of fields, orchards, pastures..... could be big. This is some kind of average, based on my buildings and how they are located:

A. Less than he need himself;< 400
B. A small profit; 400-800
C. A decent profit; 800-1600
D. A good profit; 1600-2500
E. A very good profit 2500-4000
F. An overpovered profit  >4000

A - smelter
B - herbalist, miner, fisher, woodcutter, vegetable farmer
C - forester, gatherer, herdsman (smaller pasture), fruit farmer, charcoaler, blacksmith (iron)
D - herdsman (larger pasture), tailor (woolcoats)
E - herdsman (reindeer, 1 in the hut), tailor (Nordic coat), blacksmith (steel, iron tools)
F - blacksmith (steel tools)

I like, that the profit increases if the products get more complicated. It should give a good profit to sell steel tools, more than iron tools, or steel, that gives a higher profit than iron. But I think, that more than 10 times of what the blacksmith need himself, is a bit too much. (Although we are far away from the vanilla chopper who makes ~20 time )

First picture

Crayfishparty?! Soon, soon! :)

Normally this quite inaccessible area down in southwest would have bin the last to develop. But what real Nordic woman can resist the opportunity to have a "kräftskiva"? At least not me!  ::) ;D

Second picture

Here's another proof, that the guilty of the disappearing roots and onions are the reindeer! They dig out the freshly planted potatoes, too! No wonder that the harvest sometimes turns out bad!   >:( ::)
The graph shows that the population grows fast now. I hope not too fast.

Abandoned

Good and interesting statistics, will have to make notes.  Reindeer get hungry too. Good investigating.  Too bad no sugar snap peas.  Years ago when my garden was bigger, I planted sugar snap peas for the deer and they ate those and left the rest of the garden alone.  They even left some peas for us.  Reward, we always got to see the fawns, adorable.

Nilla

Remeber @Abondoned, the statistics only apply to the North. The numbers are totally different with vanilla trade and production, not to talk about all other mods.

Tom Sawyer

In Nilla's game, reindeer is always hungry. They even eat onions. ;)

Your bridge is funny. If I look at these rocks, probably the one and only way to reach the new land and the holy crayfish.^^

I have also calculated with 300 to feed a citizen via import and had in mind that a worker has to feed 1.5 kids and all unproductive professions like teachers, traders and so on. It is only relevant in harsh climate but a good measurement. I'm satisfied with your result. I will slightly reduce the productivity of steel tools. The bloomery (smelter) should not make a profit. I don't want to make the iron bloom to a trade good. Would be weird. It is only an intermediate product of the iron processing. The blacksmith makes the product and the profit for both. The reindeer herder is too lucrative but maybe not representative in this list and not if 2 herders are working in a cabin. And if I reduce venison, reindeer could be too weak by area in relation to sheep. Would you change any special value, except of steel tool production?

I have changed the export merchants in the way we talked about. They will pay the full price for tools, warm clothes and alcohol. The three manufactured products. So it makes sense to trade with these merchants for money. Maybe logs and some other things too. Then you can play both strategies. Simple barter trading without a coin or active trading by using money for a better result. Of course it will change the values of your list ...

Thanks for your investigation, it's very useful... :)

Nilla

This bridge wasn't quite the only option, but the best. There could have been another, even longer bridge a bit north or a shorter bridge over the river more south, combined with a very long tunnel. Both would have been more expensive, but it was not the important thing; both would have made the paths longer for most people. It's bad enough as it is.

I've been thinking a little bit more about the profit of steeltools. Maybe it's not that high anyway. If we count differently; to produce 100 steel tools you need the work of about 1½ miner, ½ forester, 1/4 woodchopper, 1 charcoaler, ½ smelter and 1 1/4 blacksmith; about 5 person. Together they produce a value of 6600 or 1350 each. I wouldn't primary change the production numbers. I find them quite alright. Maybe put the price down a little, especially in combination with the possibility to get an even higher price, if you use coins. Maybe also look into the other products of the blacksmith, so that the profit of iron tools and steel aren't closing in on steel tools. We must also remember, that I based my calculation on good located production sites, in times as there were plenty of every raw material close (a yearly production of 250). I have seen a little higher but more often lower.

I find the high profit of the hunter/herdsman quite alright. The number of these  profitable workers are very limited. You will never be able to support a larger settlement from reindeer. The first years were really tough and than it's good to have something reliable (venison) to sell. You can also export logs at the beginning, but you need them for so many other things as well. Sometimes you have plenty, sometimes just a few to spare. To feed the population, you can fish and give them some other cheap protein.

First picture


The new area under development.

The foodgraph is very "up and down". Two reasons; there are few foodmerchants, so I have to buy a lot of wheat each time one arrives and sometimes the harvest is really bad. Mostly due to a cold summer. But it has also happened, that I was so busy planning, what to build next, that I forgot to start the harvest in time (It happened last year; too busy planning the inn. You can see it at the inventory on the second picture; not much potatoes and apples)

In a harsh climate, you would hardly get anything out of your fields and orchards, if you didn't start the the harvest manually. Of cause, this is a disadvantage, if you want to build a big settlement on harsh with a lot of farming. A lot of manual work! But why not! Like you said in that other thread @Tom Sawyer ; no "build and forget". No way!  :)

Second picture

I'm not quite there, yet but soon! After this harvest, I will start to build the inn, it's already planned, just next to the school.  ;D I never build much in summer. The builders are needed as farmers. The schnapps production has started and I have fished some crayfish.

The crayfish spot disappears after a short time. I don't know, what I feel about it. First I was annoyed. Another thing to micromanage, if you want to have a lot of crayfish (could be profitable to sell). But on the hand, in life crayfish from a small stream, never was an important part of any economy. As far as I know, they are only fished a short period in late summer/early autumn. I even think, that they are not good usable, if you try to fish them earlier. I can remember, as I was a child, we use to dive for them in a small lake and our mothers didn't like it. First it was illegal and second, they also had too soft shells and couldn't really be used. You know; if poaching, than at least something useful. ;)

I hope there will be a huge crayfishparty tonight! I'm really curious what @Tom Sawyer has figured out!

Tom Sawyer

I hope you will not be disappointed. It's not a big deal. I would give you a pompous popup video when a party starts. But that does not work. ;D

Nilla

No, it wasn't disappointing. In fact I didn't expect all too much. I have a long experience of this game and even if I don't do any mods myself, I've got a pretty good idea about the possibilities.

I built the inn, had my schnapps and my crayfish; my crayfishparty and see what happend. A small surprise! Cheers! :)

The inn looks fantastic, with and without the extention (it looks like it works like a boarding house, I have no intentions to take any nomads, but it might be used, if there's a fire). Of cause it would look even better, if there wasn't so many other buildings around it, but that's up to the "city builders" to prove. At least there was enough room for some garden furniture. (You know a crayfish party has to be held outside).

Now the hard question: To what use is all this; booze, inns, "cheers"? Schnapps and beer isn't possible to sell, no merchant wants it, "cheers" is worth 1 , so no good business. It looks like the inn works as that part of the vanilla brewery, where people come to idle, get their alcoholic beverage (not schnapps or beer but "cheers") and that's it. I don't suppose, it has any real impact on happiness or anything else. A pity!

So, sorry, after testing; inn and brewery are closed. :(  :'(

I haven't decided yet, if I want to go on with this game for much longer. I have promised to test the autotrade, and I will. After that; I don't know. It works fine. I think, I could fill the map with this mixture of farming and trade, without bigger problems. Do you want anything else to be hardtested in this game, @Tom Sawyer ?

I have noticed one small bug, or I don't really know, what it was. I have started a small tool production center in the new part of the settlement. I want to give the warehouse a try. The first bloomery I built here, didn't work. The smelter did a lot of other things, mostly idling. He just never went into his shop. The other bloomeries all work fine. The difference to this was, that it had buildings on 3 sides. The bloomery has no street access built in. Did I maybe close the front side? It looks like, there is a front side, where the smelter always stands, but is it always the same side? In that case, it would probably be better to add a road to the building. The coalburner is the same, but I have never noticed this kind of problem there. I thought I made a screenshot of this bugged building but obviously, I forgot.

First picture

Cheers!

Second picture

"Cheers" seems to attract a lot of people (even my "beloved" reindeer  ;D ). It was gone in no time.

"Darling, where is my liquor bottle?"
"The reindeer drank it."
::)

Third picture

Here we can see a disadvantage in how I build; not planning all to much in advance. I didn't really plan this toolcenter and all the houses needed for its workers. You can see, that I have problems with farming in this area. New fields could always be a bit difficult, new areas with a lot of builders as well, so at first I didn't care all to much about the bad harvest. After a while though, I understood, that something must be wrong. And sure it was. I looked at the farmers, who should plant and harvest their fields. They were running all over the place, doing other things. First I didn't really understood why, than I noticed, that for all those houses, there are only 2 small village shops and they were empty on food most of the time. The farmers were often far away collecting food for their homes.

I should have built a normal market place for all those houses, but now it's too late, so I temporarily put 4 vendors in each shop, I'm, building a third one in the area, I will start the "sleeping potato fields" next year to produce more food local and build a trading port, to get wheat deliveries close. I think it could solve the problem.

Nilla

I just tested the bloomery. If the access to the front side is locked, they do not produce. The 4 iron bloom on each was produced just at the beginning, as the other plant wasn't built. After that no visit from a smelter.

Tom Sawyer

Oh, a hard question ... and I need a good answer. ??? ;D

You are right, it is a pity. Consuming alcohol does not affect the game (except of destroying a lot of resources in a short time and to spawn an idling point) and we can't solve this issue. If I could change it, it would work like herbs for health. Of course, having a fun game goal is also a purpose and you had some fun with it and a game motivation to reach the new land with this crayfish-stream far away. The only serious purpose of alcohol is trading. And thats why I have separated the consumption of alcohol from the production. Now you have the control what happens with this resource. They will not drink it if you don't want. @kid1293 and me have found this way while making the Tequila mod and it makes sense to me. Now you have three sorts of alcohol with different ingredients and trade values including a further processed product to get a higher price. It's a third production chain beside of toolmaking and tailoring, without the feeling to waste something while these drunken people destroy the half of your barrels until it is stored in the trading post. The tavern got a serious function with the boarding house upstairs. And maybe we find another useful job for the barkeeper in the time between the fun events.

Thanks for the hint to this bloomery bug. I think more space or a road in front will solve it.

Nilla

To trade alcohol; it doesn´t work. No merchant wants it!  :(

Tom Sawyer

That's a bug. My fault. These nasty little merchants... always make trouble.^^

kid1293


brads3

NILLA u have a tavern and a brewery i tak it??? so u are making alcohol in the brewery?? and where is the inn or boarding quarters,above the brewery??? or am i confused??? i ask because there are mods where the ale or cider is made in the tavern-style building. u are right too,i think that crayfish tavern should have some spaces with picnic tables already with the mod.mayb a good time for a "f" variant.
TOM u better watch out.next Nilla will want ppl in bikins and chairs for a beach party too.lol