World of Banished

Sightseeing => Village Blogs => Topic started by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 05:21:36 PM

Title: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
Just can't stop!

Random Seed, Disasters on for a change. This isn't going to be a metropolis, I'm trying from the start for steady growth to a plateau, just to see if it's possible.

Got the school built still in early spring, before my 9 y/o turned ten. First time I've ever managed that.

Wheat and Beans, a pleasant surprise. Cherry seeds, when I want them.

I'll never understand the folks who say, no farms until year 5, year 10; gatherers first! Farms are free food fast and easy.

Mods

RK Warehouse
RK Irrelevant Tweak Crop
RK Creamery and Dairy
RK Decorative Items
RK Small Chapel
RK New Medieval Town
RK Small House
RK Monastery
RK Grain Silo
SJGL Small Markets
SLGL Snug House
SLGL Lawn
JamieIdleAleAndFirewood
JamieIdleMerchantsAndTradeFixSlower
Pangaea Longer-living Orchards
Better Fields
BobbiDoctorHouse
Flatten Terrain
Pangaea No Wind

I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:20:11 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.


hahaha.
sorry bro it is not funny i know.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 06:30:03 PM
Looking forward to following your latest creation! :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 06:30:47 PM
So, this is going well. When harvest started, I moved two more laborers onto the farms to insure the harvest came in. Just as the harvest was completing, the gatherer got built, so I moved the farmers to the gatherers hut. This is much more productive than letting the farmers be laborers over the winter.

I just have to remember to move two of the gatherers to the farms in late winter, to be sure they are there in time for planting.

Quote from: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 06:30:03 PM
Looking forward to following your latest creation! :)
Thanks @Mahnogard!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:32:11 PM
arrhhh so you didnt added Re-balanced Apiary Mod ?
sad, you cant add it now. will have to buy your honey :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 06:33:17 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:32:11 PM
arrhhh so you didnt added Re-balanced Apiary Mod ?
sad, you cant add it now. will have to buy your honey :)
Yes, there is a conflict with the Medieval Town. No conflicts! :D

Honey's cheap. ;) But I'm going to build just one or maybe two TPs.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
i ll try to add it in a future build , with a 2nd floor :)
good for you ? for next town :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 06:35:55 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
i ll try to add it in a future build , with a 2nd floor :)
good for you ? for next town :)

Of course it's good for him. And it's good for me too! :D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 06:36:26 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on November 11, 2014, 06:35:13 PM
i ll try to add it in a future build , with a 2nd floor :)
good for you ? for next town :)
If it's in the Medieval Town? Yes!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 06:46:50 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 06:30:47 PM
So, this is going well. When harvest started, I moved two more laborers onto the farms to insure the harvest came in. Just as the harvest was completing, the gatherer got built, so I moved the farmers to the gatherers hut. This is much more productive than letting the farmers be laborers over the winter.

I just have to remember to move two of the gatherers to the farms in late winter, to be sure they are there in time for planting.

Quote from: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 06:30:03 PM
Looking forward to following your latest creation! :)
Thanks @Mahnogard!

You're welcome! :) Will you be tracking any numbers? I'm interested to see what your yields look like doing that.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: salamander on November 11, 2014, 07:02:05 PM
You're trying for a pop plateau, and I seem to be able to hit them when I don't want them.  Is it just me, or is there something wrong here?  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 07:03:00 PM
Sure, here's the first year. Each farm got around 650, they weren't 120-tiles. This years farms are both 16x8, 128-tile; expecting 896 each. I've learned that with Irrelevant Tweak Crop you can push farms pretty far past 120.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 07:03:54 PM
Quote from: salamander on November 11, 2014, 07:02:05 PM
You're trying for a pop plateau, and I seem to be able to hit them when I don't want them.  Is it just me, or is there something wrong here?  ;D
@salamander everyone's good at something that somebody else wants, it seems  ;) Got any tips?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 08:41:36 PM

@Mahnogard Year two numbers (not quite over, but I have things to do)

The growing season was a bit off, the wheat didn't do what I wanted. And I don't know what was up with the hunter. Building a second cabin in the forest node.

But mainly I'm happy. Time to build the main market, a regular one first. Need to have a tailor, blacksmith, and tavern all in one spot, near the future TP. After that, @slink's markets all the way.
Title: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 08:42:25 PM
Early Spring 4

Taking shape. Producers producing. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: Mahnogard on November 11, 2014, 10:07:56 PM
Excellent! Thanks for sharing your results. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: rkelly17 on November 12, 2014, 08:41:14 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
Just can't stop!
. . . .

I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not add new mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.
I will not upgrade existing mods.

I'm pretty sure there's a 12-Step group for the adding/upgrading mods addiction. "I am powerless over mods and they have crashed my town."

;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend
Post by: salamander on November 12, 2014, 10:47:24 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 11, 2014, 07:03:54 PM
@salamander everyone's good at something that somebody else wants, it seems  ;) Got any tips?
Yeah, but you might not like it ... just play stupid like I normally seem to.  ;)
Title: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 05:21:34 PM
So I haven't played with disasters on since my first town, and it occurs to me, I haven't the slightest clue regarding well placement. How many will I need, how far apart should they be? I'm pretty sure I don't need them near rivers, lakes, or streams, but how near is "near?"

And now, considering for the first time fighting fires, I can imagine the usefulness of a stone road.
Title: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 06:13:50 PM
Year 5

Production from year 4

Built another forester, to the south, and a TP, and a well.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 07:24:46 PM
Year 6

Year 5 production. Got hammered by an early frost; still two years' worth of food in storage.

Built a cherry orchard and the usual two houses. This year, a tavern. Going to make ale from berries until they're gone, and then from ale (yes, at a loss, I have plenty of wheat), just to have goods for trade.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 07:51:03 PM
The first merchant is always exciting! But I don't really need any pies. Maybe I should buy some, just for my guys.

Nah. :D

But I will place some orders.

Town Hall's up.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 08:14:47 PM
Year 7

Year 6 production

Yeah, making berries and then wheat into ale really ate into the food supply, but I had food to burn (he said, looking around for the tornado). There is a place for the inefficient ale production, and this is it.

Built another wheat farm, unconventional in size and shape (24x6, 144 tiles, 1 farmer until harvest), just to see what happens.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Mahnogard on November 12, 2014, 08:21:30 PM
Ha! On my new town, the first boat was also the GG merchant, with pies, cheese, and something else that I don't remember. "Luxury foods" that we couldn't afford. I promised my Bannies that if they just hung on for another 10 years or so, we'd be able to make our own. I ordered some logs. I'm trying to avoid going across the river for resources until I'm actually ready to expand over there.  I'm playing on a small map for a change, and I'm in year 7, I think. Just built my Town Hall, too.

Unlike you, no disasters. I was going to but forgot and didn't feel like starting over because I was already a few years in before I realized I had wanted to turn them on this time.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 08:47:45 PM
GG merchant is the best. I ordered cherries, stone, and wool.

Small maps are fun! I like to do large though, just in case I need to keep going  ;)

This time I made a point of disasters on, just because  ;)

Going to be awhile before I cross the river I think, unless I need to do it to get stone.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 12, 2014, 09:02:52 PM
Year 8

Year 7 production

The odd wheat farm paid off. One farmer until harvest started, then I added a second farmer to each field. As each field finished, I threw those farmers onto the other fields. When the fields were all done, they became gatherers (built a second gatherer hut in the fall). This kind of micro only works for the first 20 years or so, then you get too busy, but it really is worth it.

Putting another forester out there in the river bend, because he will harvest the surface stone as he's planting trees (4 set to cut and plant).
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 13, 2014, 05:41:39 PM
Year 9

Year 8 production - orchard, farms, gatherers, hunters, foresters, herbalists all working together. There's a place for foresters and gatherers, and that place is not anywhere you are trying for 5000 pop (they take up too much space, seems obvious, guess it isn't). Their place is here, where rapid pop growth (requiring equally rapid geographic expansion) is not an objective.

Food production still is 4 gatherers at each hut until harvest, then 6 workers move to farms and the orchard. I used 5 farmers to harvest the orchard; this was its first year so I'm not sure if that was enough labor, but that's a buncha cherries!

Still building two houses per year. The current plan is to continue at this rate until I get old age deaths, then I'll see.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 04:42:43 PM
Just tried an experiment with farm planting. I started my 3 farms out with a single farmer in early spring as usual, then partway through planting I added a second farmer to see if that sped up the planting process.

To my surprise it did not. The additional farmers just followed along behind the original ones, going over area that already had been done.

So my strong suspicion is, if you are at a point where micromanaging farms makes sense for you, there is no point in having more than a single farmer per field until the harvest begins.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 05:58:09 PM
Later Spring 12

Hoping for a shipment of honey for pies, or for a boatload of cattle.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 06:21:35 PM
Sure hope I don't get tornadoed. Probly time to set up shop across the river for insurance.

Insurance =/= guarantee.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 08:01:49 PM
A freshly-built @slink's farm market.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 08:39:11 PM
And that's pretty much all you need on the other side of the river to start developing a second settlement.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 09:02:54 PM
Oh, you crazy kids.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Mahnogard on November 14, 2014, 09:10:29 PM
LOL. That happens a lot in my towns. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 09:18:11 PM
Early Winter 14

Still 2 houses per year

@JamieIdle2.0 the merchants on the special slow version are perfect. I am wishing for them to come, rather than annoyed when they do.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 14, 2014, 09:19:49 PM
Quote from: Mahnogard on November 14, 2014, 09:10:29 PM
LOL. That happens a lot in my towns. :)
@Mahnogard  Yeah, I see it a lot too, I don't know why it amuses me like it does; just a dirty old man I guess. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 16, 2014, 08:15:14 AM
For once not asking a question but answering.

I have mostly played with disasters on (fires are not quite so "fun" after the initial patch, mostly only 1 or 2 houses burns) but I might be able to give some advice.

As you assume, you need no wells close to rivers, streams and lakes. But don't forget; To get water, there must be an access to the shore. No one walks through buildings to get water. One other quite remarkable thing is, that they only put out fire on the front side of the buildings! This must be considered, when you build wells. I once built a well on a free space in one corner behind some houses. One of the houses closest to the well caught fire, a lot of Bannies rushed by (yes they really run fast when there's a fire) but there was a really long way to go, to reach the front side of the burning house. so it was destroyed , same as some other close by houses.

In places where much people are occupied, you don't need to put the wells very close to eachother. There will be a lot of firefighters. It is different in more remote places, where not so many people work. I had fires in foresters huts and even with a well or river close, it takes longer for the people to get there, to put out the fire.

Infestations are quite annoying, especially at orchards. If I have an infestation at an orchard, I rather delete it, before it spreads. As far as I have noticed, the infestation will not go away until you have cut all the trees down, anyhow.

Infestations at a pasture is a bit odd. It's not the animals that are sick. It's the place. So if there is room in other pastures, you can move the animals, without infecting those, who was there first. The infestation also gets away, if you change the animal (sheep to cow or cow to chicken.......)

The only really bad thing is a tornado but it occurs seldom and luckily never strikes the whole map. I know nothing to prevent it. I suppose it is just a matter of good or bad luck.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 01:06:45 PM
Year 16

Got busy during harvest, forgot to assign additional farmers to the orchards; ouch! Won't let that happen again. :o

Year 17

It's always the little things.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 01:09:27 PM
@Nilla  thanks for your observations. I am making small modifications along the waterfront to improve access to the river.

I've only had one fire, in my first town. I don't remember it very well, other than it pretty much wiped me out, and I had to revert to a previous save. This was back in the 1.01 days.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 04:49:01 PM
Year 18

Going to need a quarry and an iron mine.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 06:14:15 PM
Year 20

Bah! My big orchard has an infestation. So I guess the way to deal with this is to cut the trees, delete, and start over?

Beef, leather, milk, cheese :)

Mutton, wool  :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
Year 22

First time I can recall seeing this, a female student joining into a new household.

Year 23

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

Love @slink's lil markets!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 17, 2014, 01:12:34 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
Year 22

First time I can recall seeing this, a female student joining into a new household.


You haven't seen that before? Either you haven't really looked into the houses or (rather) you haven't had many so houses, students (male and female) founding families, if there are no adults (and also sometimes if there are), but I haven't seen any kids until the female student left school.
Quote from: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 07:04:40 PM

Love @slink's lil markets!

me too and @Elfecutioner general store/farm markets
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 17, 2014, 06:20:24 AM
@Nilla, well, I regularly look at who moves into new houses, cause that can tell you a lot about whether to build more or not. I think it probably is that I normally do not have so many houses. I have religiously built two houses every year except the first year, when I built only one.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on November 17, 2014, 07:51:24 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 16, 2014, 07:04:40 PM
First time I can recall seeing this, a female student joining into a new household.

Happens to me all the time. They don't start having babies until she is out of school, so you've got to hope that the new house is not far away from her school. I also see male students with graduated females. In that case the babies start coming right away, but if the student ends up far away from the school he attends it still takes longer.

I think that what causes this is a demographic problem with the number of one sex or the other in a particular age cohort being out of balance. Students will get married when necessary. I'm not sure whether or not there is a minimum age for this--I've seen it happen pretty young in the case of a serious gender imbalance.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 17, 2014, 08:17:57 AM
It's funny, I see it happen all the time with male students, down to 10 y/o. I guess my gender imbalances up until now have been the other direction.

This is only my 8th town, so I guess it's just that I still haven't seen every damn thing.  ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 17, 2014, 08:18:55 PM
Year 25

The number of families is starting to pull away from the number of houses. Students and children are each pretty much 1/6 of total pop.

This is where the curves all start to cross; I shall resist the temptation to build more than 2 houses/year.

As I learned the hard way, with disasters on you always need an empty pasture.

Orchards are totally labor-intensive at harvest; you must flood your orchards with workers when harvest starts. They need nothing thru the year, then for one month they need everything.

This is why just buying fruit is better.

And when your pop goes over 150, the merchant boats get ridiculously fat. There oughta be a mod....
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 18, 2014, 04:41:35 AM
What a nice looking, slow and well balanced settlement. It is interesting to see, how different it can be built in Banished. (I have a wild idea for my next settlement, that will be the total opposite)   ;D

And I totally agree with you about the orchards. I have seldom built any, prefere to buy the fruit. But in my present game I have a lot of plum-orchards. And it is really a big difference, if you micromange the work force or not. Sometimes I forget to increase the number of farmers at harvest, than I get less than ½ of the plums, I could get, if I increased the harvest workers. And apposite to other farmers, who most of the time seems to make normal laborers work, as there is nothing to do on the fields, the orchard-farmers often seems to have something important to do there all the time.

Thanks for telling us!

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 18, 2014, 06:32:23 AM
If I remember right, you're using @Pangaea's Longer-Living Orchards mod.  If you've also used the Immortal Orchards mod (in a different town), do you have a preference?

I've never used @Pangaea's mod, but my current settlement has the Immortal Orchards enabled.  Even with very few, and mostly small, orchards my stores of apples are through the roof, and I really don't have to pay any attention to what the orchards are doing.  It almost seems a little over-powered to me.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:41:25 AM
I'm using longer-living orchards. I've never tried immortal orchards. If I was using smaller orchards, one or two farmers per each would be enough. With the two big ones though, I need 8 on the smaller one and 12 on the larger one to get all the cherries in.

It probably would seem OP, if not for the fact that I regularly forget to assign the extra workers that are necessary.  ;)

So much of the production is OP in one way or another, either in how much you can produce, or in how much you can get for it in trade, or both.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:43:22 AM
Quote from: Nilla on November 18, 2014, 04:41:35 AM
What a nice looking, slow and well balanced settlement. It is interesting to see, how different it can be built in Banished. (I have a wild idea for my next settlement, that will be the total opposite)   ;D

Thank you @Nilla.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 18, 2014, 06:58:05 AM
@irrelevant -- Thanks.  I just realized that maybe part of the OP effect with my orchards may be that I'm also using @slink's Mediterranean Climate, so I'm getting full harvests pretty much every season, and the Better Farms mod, which I had forgotten gives closer planting of the trees.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on November 18, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
Quote from: salamander on November 18, 2014, 06:32:23 AM
If I remember right, you're using @Pangaea's Longer-Living Orchards mod.  If you've also used the Immortal Orchards mod (in a different town), do you have a preference?

I've never used @Pangaea's mod, but my current settlement has the Immortal Orchards enabled.  Even with very few, and mostly small, orchards my stores of apples are through the roof, and I really don't have to pay any attention to what the orchards are doing.  It almost seems a little over-powered to me.

OP production-wise, but, oh, so beautiful.

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 18, 2014, 11:31:13 AM
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 18, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
OP production-wise, but, oh, so beautiful.
Definitely.  I started with Immortal Orchards loaded just for lining roadways and other decorations, but decided to use them for ale production, too.  As the amount of ale being made increases, the apple stores will drop, and everything will be back to what I'm used to.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Deluxe duplex Hunters' Cabin  :D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:08:23 PM
Year 27

Oldtown waterfront outgrows its available space.

Hedgeville's expanded food production; need to buy some new seeds for visual interest.

Warehouses, just in case.

In 27 years Frenchman's Bend has not exported a single stick of firewood. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:26:13 PM
Tornoadoed!

Got off pretty easy, lost 15 dead, a forester hut, one house, a TP, and 20 sheep.

Aside from the folks, the worst loss was 45,000TV worth of goods in the TP.

Could have been so much worse, the tornado came in from the left across mostly just forest, and died out right after it hit the TP (but not before it sucked up all the sheep out of those two pastures)  :( But had it kept going there were four small markets, four barns, a school, a tailor, a blacksmith, a woodcutter, and a dozen houses in its path.

Kinda interferes with my population experiment....

Screen 2 is what it looked like just before. Now trying to decide which is more interesting, recovering from the tornado (which really wouldn't be so hard, as I did get off incredibly easy) or reverting to the auto save from nine minutes earlier and continuing the experiment. Leaning towards the latter....otherwise it becomes just another town.

Going to quit for the night without going any further. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 18, 2014, 10:40:19 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Deluxe duplex Hunters' Cabin  :D

nice, i never thought about that when i designed it ^^
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 19, 2014, 02:48:27 AM
It is quite interesting to recover and rebuild after a disaster, but in this case it seems like there was no real disaster, just a minor disturbance. I don't know how much it will interfere on this experiment, to go on from the last save, rebuild what was lost and than go on. But if you think it would and have to choose, your 2-house-experiment might be more interesting.

And by the way; I don't think you didn't get off incredibly easy. From my experience with tornadoes, this was pretty average. From the tornadoes I had, I only remember one, that was real bad, several 100 dead and an influence on the game. The rest was like yours, or less. (In my big dens settlements I played with disasters off)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 19, 2014, 04:07:15 AM
For selfish reasons, I'd rather see you back up to the autosave and continue the population experiment.  :D  You could always save your tornado'd town and come back later just for the fun of recovering it.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 06:22:03 AM
Quote from: salamander on November 19, 2014, 04:07:15 AM
For selfish reasons, I'd rather see you back up to the autosave and continue the population experiment.  :D  You could always save your tornado'd town and come back later just for the fun of recovering it.
@salamander That's a good idea! I think this is what I'll do. Thanks!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 06:26:21 AM
Quote from: Nilla on November 19, 2014, 02:48:27 AM
It is quite interesting to recover and rebuild after a disaster, but in this case it seems like there was no real disaster, just a minor disturbance. I don't know how much it will interfere on this experiment, to go on from the last save, rebuild what was lost and than go on. But if you think it would and have to choose, your 2-house-experiment might be more interesting.

And by the way; I don't think you didn't get off incredibly easy. From my experience with tornadoes, this was pretty average. From the tornadoes I had, I only remember one, that was real bad, several 100 dead and an influence on the game. The rest was like yours, or less. (In my big dens settlements I played with disasters off)
@Nilla I've only had one other tornado, in my first town while it was still under 100 pop; totally devastated the place, killed over half of my guys, leveled so many structures that I didn't even make a save of it. It was totally beyond my ability even to think how to start recovering. I reverted to the autosave, and never again played with disasters on until this town.

I guess we only read about the really bad ones, that's why I considered this to be getting off easy.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 06:29:47 AM
Quote from: RedKetchup on November 18, 2014, 10:40:19 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 18, 2014, 06:00:55 PM
Deluxe duplex Hunters' Cabin  :D

nice, i never thought about that when i designed it ^^
@RedKetchup glad you like it   :) Nice to see you in here taking a break from Warcraft  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 19, 2014, 08:05:08 AM
oh i come to see the replays 2 times a day.

when i get up.... and when i go down ^^ ( sleep)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 04:15:26 PM
And a fire! Fortunately next to the river. Lost just the one house.

I credit not only the proximity to water but also the fact that I had 18 laborers at the time. I also shut down the nearby producers and added them to the firefighters.

Students and children as young as 6, 4, and 3 also were fighting the fire.

Thanks to @Nilla for prompting me to provide easy access to the water.

Interesting, this is the autosaved game from just before the tornado. Both tornado and fire occurred in summer 27. The occurrence of a disaster must get baked in earlier, and then the type of disaster is rolled for when it pops up.

Or not  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 19, 2014, 05:10:59 PM
You don't have to resign other occupations any more. I have seen all kind of professions fighting fire. At the beginning only free laborers close to the fire helped, now everyone does, as you saw it, also children.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 05:32:22 PM
Quote from: Nilla on November 19, 2014, 05:10:59 PM
You don't have to resign other occupations any more. I have seen all kind of professions fighting fire. At the beginning only free laborers close to the fire helped, now everyone does, as you saw it, also children.
Good to know.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 19, 2014, 07:30:07 PM
Late Winter 29 - pop 198

Getting ready for some development in Hedgeville.

Oldtown, and vital statistics

This production panel makes me really happy.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 20, 2014, 02:05:56 AM
@irrelevant; I know a challange for you, where you would have big trouble:

Build a settlement where to no time, the stores are bigger than 1 year production! ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 20, 2014, 11:50:15 AM
Maybe this is a good demonstration of firesfighting and wells.

I just had a fire, probably the one with the baddest consequences since the "fire upgrade". As I always say; this game has a soul. I just noticed that I had forgotten to build a well in this new, remote farming area. Put the footprint of the church and the well, went to the tradingport, where a boat just docked, and bong..... a fire.....

It started at the barn I've marked. The closest well is also marked, not so far away, but as there are not so many people in this area, the fire spread. The firefighters were mostly farmers and builders (those people who happened to be in that area). You may see that the planting is a bit late. Almost (!?) all farmers were elsewhere, trying to put out the fire. What I do not understand, is that there were still a few that didn't care about their burning homes. They just went on planting beans !?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 11:53:38 AM
Ouch! Nasty. First thing I do this evening, is build a well in my expansion area  :o

Quote from: Nilla on November 20, 2014, 02:05:56 AM
@irrelevant; I know a challange for you, where you would have big trouble:

Build a settlement where to no time, the stores are bigger than 1 year production! ;)
But...but...my barns!  ;) You're right, that would be a challenge.

I had less than a year's worth of food when I was at pop 6000, does that count? ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 20, 2014, 03:48:04 PM
That counts if you had it all the time. But I know you hadn´t. Just a few years at the end of the game.  :P
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
@Nilla I'm not sure my beancounter training would allow me to take your challenge  ;)

Year 31 - Crop sampler in Hedgeville.

Oh dear, there I go again, making neat grids; somebody stop me! ::)

Moving the stockpiles

Pop increase is slowing
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 21, 2014, 02:17:56 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
@Nilla I'm not sure my beancounter training would allow me to take your challenge  ;)

Yes @irrelevant, we are so dependent on our personality, and training, also as we play these games. And I suppuse you would be quite stressed if you tried to make it different. So, to be honest, I don't think you should go for that challenge.

Quote from: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM

Oh dear, there I go again, making neat grids; somebody stop me! ::)


But look at your picture, I have marked some fields. Sometimes you may stop yourself ;)
The second field is two rows longer than the first, and the third field only one row longer than the second. That's not really you building, is it?

One question; I think I see some brown catttle. You said at the start, that you use RK creamery but in my version, the cows are black and white. Can you have both? I haven´t seen that. Or do you not use that mod? Or maybe an earlier/later version?

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 21, 2014, 04:23:48 AM
Quote from: Nilla on November 21, 2014, 02:17:56 AM
The second field is two rows longer than the first, and the third field only one row longer than the second. That's not really you building, is it?
That's really disturbing.  @irrelevant's turning into a rebel.  ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on November 21, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
Oh dear, there I go again, making neat grids; somebody stop me! ::)

No, no, @irrelevant. Embrace your inner grid-maker.  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 04:43:08 PM
@Nilla @salamander  Ha! There was a reason for that, (let's see now, what was it...?  ;) oh, yeah!) I was testing different field configs for crop yield, and never got around to changing them. Yeah, that's my story ;)

I have started using ever-larger fields. Previous to Frenchman's Bend, I had always used 8x15 farms (120 tile) with two farmers, but in this town I have tried 16x8 (128), 18x8 (144) , 21x8 (168), 24x7(168), and 21x9 (189). Mostly they get the full yield, but not always.

When your farming constraint is how much land you are willing to devote to farming (you can have as many farmers as you need), the 120-tile farms are the way to go, 9 years out of ten you will get full yield. If you instead are limited by how many farmers you can spare from your labor force, it is better to put that number of farmers on larger fields, and accept the occasional yield reduction due to early frost. You'll still get full yield 2 years in 3, or maybe 3 years in 4. But more tiles in tillage means larger harvests (per farmer) on average.

Still not sure what the optimum size field is. Not sure I've got the patience to fiddle around that much. In any case, I'm sure it varies by crop seed. And so we're back to that. Beans and wheat.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 04:43:35 PM
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 21, 2014, 10:05:01 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 20, 2014, 07:27:43 PM
Oh dear, there I go again, making neat grids; somebody stop me! ::)

No, no, @irrelevant. Embrace your inner grid-maker.  ;D
@rkelly17 Oh, I do! ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 21, 2014, 05:13:12 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 04:43:08 PM
@Nilla @salamander
When your farming constraint is how much land you are willing to devote to farming (you can have as many farmers as you need), the 120-tile farms are the way to go, 9 years out of ten you will get full yield. If you instead are limited by how many farmers you can spare from your labor force, it is better to put that number of farmers on larger fields, and accept the occasional yield reduction due to early frost.

Still not sure what the optimum size field is. Not sure I've got the patience to fiddle around that much. In any case, I'm sure it varies by crop seed. And so we're back to that. Beans and wheat.

For me, that's the tricky part.  Most recently, I been using the @slink's Mediterranean Climate mod, so early frosts haven't really been something to worry about, but I see what you're saying about deciding how to use your available labor.  I have to believe there is an optimum field size (because I'm anal about these things) but there's so many variables, it's hard to say if there's an optimum for all situations.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you get from your population experiment.  I've been using @slink's rule of thumb (from back on the SRS forum) of 1 new house per year, but with the population levels folks are reaching now, that has to change as pop levels get higher and higher.  I'm hoping you'll have some suggestions about how often you should plan on building houses to keep a population stable and/or growing at a fairly constant rate regardless of the pop size.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 06:50:53 PM
Using larger fields with 2 farmers each, modded with Better Fields + Irrelevant Tweak Crops

These are 21x8 except for the beans and wheat which are 21x9

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 07:43:07 PM
I can't believe it, I'm dismissing boats full of logs and stone..... :o
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 08:12:01 PM
Every time autumn comes and I click orchard workers up from 10 to 26, I feel guilty cause I'm not checking I9s ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 08:22:44 PM
Year 33, harvest

The three wheat fields are 16x8, 18x8, and  24x7
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 08:39:19 PM
Year 34, planting

This one's going to be ugly, planting is 1/3d done, with snow on the ground; this is why you need big food surpluses.

Hm. Damaged, but not as bad as I expected. Squash and cabbage are especially resistant to cold.

A bad year.  :)

The new village of Cross Creek.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 22, 2014, 02:02:57 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 04:43:08 PM
@Nilla @salamander  Ha! There was a reason for that, (let's see now, what was it...?  ;) oh, yeah!) I was testing different field configs for crop yield, and never got around to changing them. Yeah, that's my story ;)

I have started using ever-larger fields. Previous to Frenchman's Bend, I had always used 8x15 farms (120 tile) with two farmers, but in this town I have tried 16x8 (128), 18x8 (144) , 21x8 (168), 24x7(168), and 21x9 (189). Mostly they get the full yield, but not always.

When your farming constraint is how much land you are willing to devote to farming (you can have as many farmers as you need), the 120-tile farms are the way to go, 9 years out of ten you will get full yield. If you instead are limited by how many farmers you can spare from your labor force, it is better to put that number of farmers on larger fields, and accept the occasional yield reduction due to early frost. You'll still get full yield 2 years in 3, or maybe 3 years in 4. But more tiles in tillage means larger harvests (per farmer) on average.

Still not sure what the optimum size field is. Not sure I've got the patience to fiddle around that much. In any case, I'm sure it varies by crop seed. And so we're back to that. Beans and wheat.

Of cause there is a logic explanation. I am relieved, almost started to worry a bit about you.

Fieldsize, oh yes, I have made a lot of experiments, too (also never understood the "magic" of 120-tile, although these 8X15 fields are quite convenient). I really don't mind so much anymore, but I do think a bit like you  @irrelevant. I never count the crop that is spoiled, always what I get into the stores.

I have discovered another "trick" harvesting orchards. If you are too lazy (or have too many orchards) to increase the workforce in the autumn, start the harvest manually in late summer or early autumn. The cherryharvest doesn't start until autumn (or at 100%). And if you do not use the immortaltree-mod, there are mostly some young trees, so you never get 100% . If you start the harvest manually, even if it is only 75% (there might never be more at that time) you will get almost the same harvest as with more workers. I made some observation in Jupitero (a lot of cherries) that the harvest was only about the half, if I forgot to start it manually. By the way, if I have large fields with few workers, I also try to start the harvest manually.


Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on November 22, 2014, 08:07:56 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 21, 2014, 04:43:08 PM
Still not sure what the optimum size field is. Not sure I've got the patience to fiddle around that much. In any case, I'm sure it varies by crop seed. And so we're back to that. Beans and wheat.

There are charts on Banished Info (http://banishedinfo.com/) which give optimum sizes for fields, orchards and pastures, but they are for unmodded farming. With mods all bets are off. For example, what I was doing unmodded with 4 high X 15 wide orchards I now do modded with 3 X 15, but I'm not sure whether that is still one of the "optimum" sizes.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 22, 2014, 08:18:07 PM
Year 38

Got too much stuff. Dialed back the number of gatherers, built two more warehouses. Laid down more stone roads than I have built in my last 3 towns combined.

The ratio of children to total pop did a nose-dive, so I built two extra houses. Keeping an eye on it.

Built a fisher on a pond, just cause. ;)

In addition to 85,000 food in storage, there's almost that much again in TPs and warehouses.

@Nilla finally I just went ahead and assigned enough farmers to the orchards; I have plenty of labor.

 
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 23, 2014, 03:25:54 AM
A Question @irrelevant, to the stores. How do you use them? Is it only extra large barns or do you also use them to allocate the stuff to the "right" place of the map. I haven't used them so much before, but made some experiments in Jupitero. I see that you always build a lot of them and it would be interesting to know, how you use them.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 23, 2014, 06:26:16 AM
The one over by the sheep pastures, that was the first one I made. I used that one to drag over a big bunch of stone, iron, and logs from the original town. The others have just been for storage.

In other towns I have used them often to move construction materials.

They're really good for taking pressure off barns that aren't getting emptied out. Better for this than markets are, since you can collect whatever resource your target barns are stuffed with. Been doing that a lot in this town.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 23, 2014, 08:42:31 AM
In that settlement I concentrated the production; tool in one place, clothing in another and so on. (Maybe it is not really the best thing to do). I used the stores to drag iron to the toolproduction, leather to the clothing and sometimes cherries to the aleproduction. It seemed like the vendors in the small markets didn´t like to walk far, to get it.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 23, 2014, 07:02:24 PM
Ha! I just figured out what to do about my storage problem; I'm buying books and keeping them in the TPs. I don't know how much space they require, but it isn't much.

@RedKetchup's books are the 100-dollar bills of Banished  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 23, 2014, 07:07:05 PM
lol
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 23, 2014, 07:18:26 PM
Bonjour, nom ami! :D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 23, 2014, 07:58:23 PM
Year 43

Overview

Pop curve is trying to turn into a sine wave, which my iron will is resisting  ;)

Production

Storage in TPs and warehouses
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 24, 2014, 02:55:04 AM
Will you try to keep the population at that level, or is it just a "intermediate" try to keep it constant?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: salamander on November 24, 2014, 03:58:53 AM
In real populations, that sine wave is not unusual, and often gets less and less apparent over time.  I wonder if the pop model in Banished will do the same thing?  One thing, though, if you chase the wave you might actually make it worse.  If it fits with your experiment, you might just let it be and see what happens over a few years.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 24, 2014, 05:54:00 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 23, 2014, 07:18:26 PM
Bonjour, nom ami! :D

Bonjour !
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 24, 2014, 05:56:54 AM
The 'iron will' remark was a joke; actually, I'm hardly doing anything at all. A couple of times I built four houses one year instead of two, but the next year I built none.

It would be ideal to settle around this size, simply because the town is pretty well balanced as it is (although it is producing way too much food).

But one thing seems clear, the single decision that I have to make is when to stop building houses. As long as there are more houses, there will eventually be more people.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 24, 2014, 07:39:15 AM
Yes, that is one decision you have to make. There are others, I think; way more difficult, if you want to make a long term self running game (don't know it you want that).

How do you deal with overproduction of food.......? I am sorry @irrelevant, but I don't think, that you can have a big over production in a longterm game.

How do you supply the people with tools?

Which clothes?

And probably some more.........

Interesting. I hope you will go for it.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 24, 2014, 07:59:09 AM
@Nilla,

Up to now I have been dealing with overproduction by building warehouses and packing them full of food, I think I have 7-8 year's worth now. I recently hit on the idea of buying books and keeping them in the TPs, that should help some too.

But that doesn't deal with the problem.

First of all I have decided to shut down my gatherers. After that I may also take a field or two out of production. Reduce the number of foresters at each cabin from two to one.

I have two tailors and two blacksmiths. These are making more than enough coats and tools for use and for trade. Maybe I need to shut down one of each of them as well, or possibly switch over to making 100% warm coats and steel tools. I don't really need tools for trade, as I am buying hardly anything.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 24, 2014, 05:45:36 PM
Proper imbrication!  ;D ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 24, 2014, 06:51:47 PM
Man, I could explode this town to pop 2000 so fast. I'll keep a save.....

This feels so strange to me, year 45 and only 10 farms.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 24, 2014, 07:44:42 PM
Year 46

Yup. OK, too many houses. Going to start tapering off.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 25, 2014, 03:07:05 AM
i can say something : these colorful little house are the ***MOST*** beautiful building in the game, never been equal-ed so far and nothing gets near neither :)




Edit: Fixed TYPO lol
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 25, 2014, 08:05:33 PM
@RedKetchup yes they are! I love them.

Year 49

Nothing much is going on. I went through and upgraded all the wooden houses to stone; in the process new families were formed, and I think I'm getting a little baby boom.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 26, 2014, 03:49:21 AM
I can see, you are still increasing the number of houses, not much, but still increasing, same as your population. Can you explain your strategie?

And @RedKetchup, I like these little houses, too. I bild no others in my slow Doolin, using the different colors of the roof, to make it look a bit funny. (although the brownish roofs might be the most realistic)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on November 26, 2014, 04:37:20 AM
Quote from: Nilla on November 26, 2014, 03:49:21 AM
I can see, you are still increasing the number of houses, not much, but still increasing, same as your population. Can you explain your strategie?

And @RedKetchup, I like these little houses, too. I bild no others in my slow Doolin, using the different colors of the roof, to make it look a bit funny. (although the brownish roofs might be the most realistic)



Quote from: RedKetchup on November 25, 2014, 03:07:05 AM
i can say something : these colorful little house are the ***MOST*** beautiful building in the game, never been equal-ed so far and nothing gets near neither :)




Edit: Fixed TYPO lol
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 26, 2014, 06:16:42 AM
Quote from: Nilla on November 26, 2014, 03:49:21 AM
I can see, you are still increasing the number of houses, not much, but still increasing, same as your population. Can you explain your strategie?
@Nilla Tapering off building houses, was two per year, now one per year for the past three years, soon one every other year, eventually none?

Upgrading houses may have been a mistake, it really seemed to cause new families to form, although I'm pretty sure they would have formed anyway. Shuffling such a large portion of the pop out of their homes and then back in may have accelerated the process, but it seems to happen pretty quickly on its own.

Right now children are 18% of pop which seems a bit too high. Hoping as I taper off house-building this % will edge its way down below 15%, which is where I will think about ceasing to build houses.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on November 27, 2014, 07:03:48 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on November 26, 2014, 06:16:42 AM
Right now children are 18% of pop which seems a bit too high. Hoping as I taper off house-building this % will edge its way down below 15%, which is where I will think about ceasing to build houses.

What I would like to hear about as you go on is when the cycle of population begins to kick in. I'm assuming that you will get what many others have seen--population drops as couples age beyond childbearing but continue to occupy houses, then swings up as those couples die and new couples move in and have babies. Does one house per year hold off the cycle? Does one house every other year? Inquiring minds want to know.

One precursor of the cycle might be a drop in the number of children, which is usually a harbinger of general population decline.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 27, 2014, 11:53:43 AM
Year 52

Buncha old farts died, buncha young folk hooked up in the empty houses, buncha babies were born. Not going to get caught up into chasing the feedback. Still one house per year, even though the pop curve has soared.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 04:47:54 AM
Between family holiday stuff, and trying to get caught up at work stuff, have had no time for Frenchman's Bend  :( Hopefully get some free time this evening.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 06:36:34 AM
Quote from: rkelly17 on November 27, 2014, 07:03:48 AM
What I would like to hear about as you go on is when the cycle of population begins to kick in. I'm assuming that you will get what many others have seen--population drops as couples age beyond childbearing but continue to occupy houses, then swings up as those couples die and new couples move in and have babies. Does one house per year hold off the cycle? Does one house every other year? Inquiring minds want to know.

One precursor of the cycle might be a drop in the number of children, which is usually a harbinger of general population decline.
Even though I haven't had any game time, I have been thinking about it a lot. The recent rise in pop has me concerned; with little new housing available for the generation now coming up, am I just baking in a pop crash? Is it reasonable to think that pop 350 is sustainable (if indeed any pop is), or just wishful thinking? Does it even make sense to be tapering off building houses at all? Going to keep a close watch on the demographics in the coming years, as far as that is possible, particularly the ages of the females moving into new houses.

Speaking of demographics, this game cries out for the capability to download the details of the citizens into a spreadsheet. One row per bannie, with sex, age, marital status, something to identify what house they are in, what year they moved into their house, etc. Probably not possible but would be oh so useful to us beancounter types!

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 29, 2014, 07:39:39 AM
Yes Mr Beancounter, I have been thinking a bit about this too. I am pretty sure it can be done. I mean become and keep a quite stable population. First you have to be very patient and than have a working, long term strategy, and stick to it.

Sorry, I think you are going the wrong way, so far. Building a certain number of houses each year cannot be successful. To look at the demographics, that's the way to go. Only build houses if they are needed. And yes, of cause you must stop building houses at some point. But you must also consider each cycle is about 19 years. If you have a babyboom today, you will have a lot of deaths 19 years later, and in the meantime, this babyboom has an influence on everything.

I will try to reach a stable population in my slow Doolin. This will be my first strategy for the next 14 years or so: (I have followed this strategy about 5 years so far). I will plan my building after the birthrate (I agree with you; better statistics would make it easier) But to make it easy, I will look at the number of children. I will try to keep about 55 children the next 19 years. If it  goes below 50, I will build houses. If it goes over 60 I will even close houses. That means; send old people to the boardinghouse and "fake-demolish" their house. If I could keep it that way, it would mean 420-450 inhabitants in the end and about 140 houses. We will see, maybe I have to change strategy or maybe as some people say; it isn't possible.

I'll let you know in my blog how it will go.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 01:30:53 PM
@Nilla I agree with a most of what you say. The idea of building a set number of houses comes from a reluctance to go chasing after data feedback by "building houses when XXX", when it is mostly unknown how much response is appropriate.  But I'm starting to believe that "build X houses every year" isn't going to work either.

In January, if your house is too cold, you turn up the thermostat; but by how much? And what if there is a window that is wide open, but you don't know that? Or if someone has just built a roaring fire in the den, but your don't know that?

Building houses in response to the number of children is a sensible strategy, but we never know what is happening in the existing houses; did a bunch of codgers just die, and 5 new couples moved in and got busy working on babies, while we are building 5 more houses?

Anyway, this is why I'm skeptical that 350 is a realistic pop target; 1350 might be a better one, as the effect of these sorts of things would be dampened by the sheer size of the pop. Thinking now about what I need to do first to expand Frenchman's Bend. I'd need another TP for one thing. And another large market. And lots more food. Food first.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 02:37:10 PM
Year 55

Children are crashing, so if I'm going to do something, I need to do it now.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 06:09:22 PM
There is one other thing to consider besides the number of children to total pop, and that is the number of houses to total pop. If the elusive ideal of no house-building is to be achieved, there must already exist the ideal number of houses to pop.

The most people who can live in a house is 5, the fewest 1. But one is undesirable, we would prefer that the fewest would be two.

That means that the ideal average number of bannies per house is (5+2)/2=3.5

So to my simple mind, it would seem that if I were trying to achieve a stable population of say 1000, I would try to reach pop 1000 at exactly the moment I had 150 children and 285 houses (1000/3.5).

Maybe 290-300 houses to allow for the inevitable widows/widower?

Obviously, I have given up on pop 350 and am aiming at pop 1000.

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 29, 2014, 07:36:54 PM
Year 56-57

Beginning to expand towards pop 1000. So for the next few years, Frenchman's Bend is just another boring town.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 30, 2014, 03:58:21 AM
First I must say; You are probably right, going from 300 to 1000. It might be a little bit easier. I tried a bit yesterday and had some problems, that would have been a bit less, with a bigger population.(I will probably write about it a little bit later in my blog)

I don't know if your calculation; 1000 population; 150 children, 285 houses is correct. I calculate a little bit different for 1000 population, I would say; 125 children, 315 houses. I will try to tell you how I calculate. I have no idea if I can do that in English. I don't know if it is correct eather.

Ideal demography; each year, the same number of children born. (I think we can agree on this)
That means each woman should have 2 children.
That means ideal first childbirth; 31-34 years. (there is time to have 2 but not 3 children)

This means (small table)

(Age/Population/Number of own houses)
0-10/ 125/ 0 living at the parents
10-20/125/0 living at the parents
20-30/125/0 living at the parents
30-40/125/63
40-50/125/62
50-60/125/63
60-70/125/62
70+/125/65 some live alone
0-90/1000/315

I have a small tip if you want it less boring. This town should live a long time (and if possible without interference from you), so there is no room for overproduction of anything. You could maybe follow my "challenge" from another thread and try to produce enough, but not much too much of everything. ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 30, 2014, 09:22:24 AM
@Nilla this makes a great deal of sense. I'll have to give this some more thought.

When I said it would be another boring town, I meant boring for anyone to read about. They never are boring when they are yours. ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 30, 2014, 10:39:15 AM
Your towns are never boring, at least not for me. I like very much to read about your games. You always have some ideas/strategies/thoughts on what you are doing. Always interesting, even if I sometimes think you are on the wrong way.  :-[

I have a special interest in this game. Almost everyone else say, that it isn't possible to build a town, with a constant population. I think it is! As I kind of know myself quite well after almost 60 years, I suspect that I don't have enough patience to prove this. Maybe you have. If i can, I will support you in this task.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 30, 2014, 11:01:08 AM
Well thanks, that's nice!

I think I probably do have the patience for just about anything.

The problem I'm having now is seeing how to go from pop 374 with 65 children in 108 houses, to pop 1000 with 125/150 children in 285/315 houses. I'm starting to think that in order to make a plan that has any chance of working, I'm going to need to know in detail what my demographics are now. And that would mean going through all the houses and making notes.   
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on November 30, 2014, 11:46:01 AM
I don't think you have to. Just expand in a normal way, until you have these 125/150 children. It will probably be before you have the 285/315 houses. Than comes the difficult part.

But maybe you can find a better way. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on November 30, 2014, 05:39:59 PM
That's just what I came here to write; I'll just start building houses and adjust as I go. As long as both stay on a curve to the target, should be more or less okay.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on December 02, 2014, 06:48:28 PM
Getting hardly any game time at all. I'm still at it, little by little.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on December 15, 2014, 06:28:27 PM
Well, I'm still here, despite real life intrusions  :)  Been doing a year here, a year there.

Year 66

Pop is climbing steadily, but the number of children is fairly stable; 65 in mid-57, and 69 today. This is the number I am looking at when I am deciding whether to build housing.

Image 1 - statistics and pretty farms  ;)

Image 2 - the newest settlement. No producers, just a forest node, a TP, small markets, and housing.

Image 3-7 - the overview from 20,000 feet
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on December 23, 2014, 06:42:15 PM
This town is too boring. The goal of flat pop seems like a chimera. I am still intrigued by it, but this town is too tedious to continue.

It is just trading, trading, trading. There is no tension, nothing to hold my interest.

Every single mod makes things too easy. Every. Mod. Is. Too. Easy.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on December 23, 2014, 10:17:26 PM
just got an idea about a mod making things harder (that i throw there is someone want to do that ^^)

if you turn all food TAG to only 'EDIBLE' (whatever it is : no more grain, no more fruit, no more protein, no more vegtable, etc)
it would very very bad for health of the citizens, very bad. and then, in order to get better health.... all food must be processed.

fruits need to be canned by a new building with new profession and the results would be canned peach... or canned pear... etc (or what ever the name you want to give)
and then, these ... canned peach would have the 'EDIBLE' tag but also 'FRUIT' tag

and then for the meat ... you can get a butcher taking care of meat  and do some ... steaks, roastbeef.... sausage.... etc.
the unprocessed meat would be only 'EDIBLE' while the steaks would be 'EDIBLE' + 'Protein' :)

so every food in the game would need to be processed to get better nutrition :)

it would also give the opportunity to have bread/cheese/muffin.... a better optimal value, for the health of your citizens, not just a trade plus value :)
the wheat would be 'edible' only, need to be milled to get flour which is 'edible' only and need to be caked into bread to get 'edible' + 'grain'
fruitcakes would receive 'edible' + 'grain' + 'fruit' tags.

ect..



that way you need more people working on the food production, less laborers doing nothing.. and maybe perhaps, you would have to choose more about which jobs you fill / and fill not ^^
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on December 24, 2014, 02:35:40 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on December 23, 2014, 06:42:15 PM
This town is too boring. The goal of flat pop seems like a chimera. I am still intrigued by it, but this town is too tedious to continue.

It is just trading, trading, trading. There is no tension, nothing to hold my interest.

Every single mod makes things too easy. Every. Mod. Is. Too. Easy.

I can understand this. I feel the same. That's the reason for my uneducated games......

Quote from: RedKetchup on December 23, 2014, 10:17:26 PM
just got an idea about a mod making things harder (that i throw there is someone want to do that ^^)

if you turn all food TAG to only 'EDIBLE' (whatever it is : no more grain, no more fruit, no more protein, no more vegtable, etc)
it would very very bad for health of the citizens, very bad. and then, in order to get better health.... all food must be processed.


that way you need more people working on the food production, less laborers doing nothing.. and maybe perhaps, you would have to choose more about which jobs you fill / and fill not ^^

This is a wonderful idea but I think to "tag" all food as "edible" would make it easier. Look at honey. I think it is tagged edible and that means it counts as all of the food-categories, when it comes to health. If you have honey, you don't need anything else to have a full health. If you make such a mod I hope you find a way to get around this. Maybe you can "tag" all unprocessed food as something else. Clothing?? ;D


Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on December 24, 2014, 07:54:30 AM
all food are already all tag 'edible' , thats only mean 'can be eat' it has no diet property.

honey is 'edible' but also Luke put all the 'diets' tag on it, and this is why with honey your citizens have 5/5 health

   RawMaterialFlags _flags = Edible | Protein | Fruit | Vegetable | Grain;

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on December 28, 2014, 06:45:11 AM
OK now I understand. That is good.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 06, 2015, 06:41:19 PM
Year 81 - pop 584

So I've picked this town back up, both because I still am intrigued by the idea of flat pop growth, and also because I had the idea of razing most of the buildings and replacing them with @RedKetchup 's NMT, starting with oldtown here.

Image 1

I have 1300+ books in stock, that's 520,000 TV for construction mats, or 37,000+ each of logs, stone, and iron.

Unfortunately when I started up a save with the latest version of NMT enabled, and the previous version disabled, it crashed. I halfway expected this.

But I will ask, can anyone suggest a way to replace the Nov 14 version of NMT with the current version? I've built tailors, smiths, taverns, hunters (plus the related dwellings), creameries, bakeries, and little houses using this verion.

Image 2

To the topic of flat pop, I currently am aiming at 80 children, and have not built a house for over a year. 
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on June 06, 2015, 07:21:57 PM
did you had any NMT medieval residences ?

because i did no changes about ... tailors... BS.. creamery... bakery... hunters.... (and their residences)
and colorful little house is another mod ...
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 06, 2015, 07:33:17 PM
Today is the first time I have downloaded NMT with the three-story buildings. I've built everything in the 14 Nov version.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on June 06, 2015, 09:12:27 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on June 06, 2015, 07:33:17 PM
I've built everything in the 14 Nov version.

thats very very old. probably before i optimized the residences. you probably have one first floor somewhere.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 06, 2015, 09:23:04 PM
So the little houses are the problem? Or maybe the hunter's residence?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on June 07, 2015, 02:20:32 AM
I hope you make it. It would be fun to see how the look of the settlement changes. I have no big experience on loading my mods to old games. Tried a bit at mod-beginning, but left it after a few crashes. I had crashes not only as I started the game, it often worked if I tried to start it a second time (have you tried that?) but also during the game, with no to me explainable reason.

Maybe you have to start a new game. I can strongly recommend to "steal" the idea of no barns from me. It works, but changes the gameplay in an interesting way.  But that's maybe too much to ask from a "barn spammer" like you. ;) ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on June 07, 2015, 08:55:48 AM
colorful little house is another mod. it cannot be a problem

like i said : tailor hunters, blacksmith, (and their residence) cannot be a problem because i didnt touch those over a year. LOL

if you dont have one 1st floor medieval residence somewhere, then the only possibility : you had another mod ON and this mod is not there anymore.
and you dont remember ^^ and this is why you crash.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 07, 2015, 05:26:31 PM
@RedKetchup  here are the mods in use:

RK Warehouse
RK Irrelevant Tweak Crop
RK Creamery and Dairy
RK Decorative Items
RK Small Chapel
RK New Medieval Town
RK Small House
RK Monastery
RK Grain Silo
SJGL Small Markets
SLGL Snug House
SLGL Lawn
JamieIdleAleAndFirewood
JamieIdleMerchantsAndTradeFixSlower
Pangaea Longer-living Orchards
Better Fields
BobbiDoctorHouse
Flatten Terrain
Pangaea No Wind

These have all been in use from the start, and I have never made any changes, adding or deleting. I learned my lesson with Quatre Bras, don't add mods (read the first post in this thread)!  ;D ;D

@Nilla I wear the title Barn Spammer with pride  ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 07, 2015, 06:30:53 PM
Year 87 - pop 595

Keeping an eye on maintaining pop (600) and children (70-90). Just started watching the number of families as well, maybe I can figure something out there too.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on June 14, 2015, 08:20:35 PM
Year 104 - pop 663

Moved up to a higher level of pop, still maintaining number of children ~80, although there was a bit of a spike a few years back. Using number of children to determine housing builds, it is too complicated to try to take into account other factors. 
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 06, 2015, 08:02:53 PM
Year 112 - pop 688

The past 8 years have built just 5 houses. Pop is slowly bouncing between 680 and 700. The number of children is now ~90-100. Nothing much happening besides trading at 5 TPs. This town is on auto-pilot. I think if I reduced TP inventories some (currently @75%-85%), I'd be able to set up auto trades, and let this one run overnight.

I have 3353 books.  :)

Image 3&4 - an NMT tavern burned a couple of years back. The residence did not burn however; here you can see that it consists of a stairway, a door, and three windows.  ;D ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 06, 2015, 09:05:17 PM
lol and you accept this like that ? destroy the residence or rebuild your tavern IMO
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 07, 2015, 02:41:56 AM
Of course I rebuilt the tavern immediately! Must have ale. ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: xyris on July 07, 2015, 03:15:43 PM
I'm glad you're back on this.  I'm intrigued by the population curves in this game.  I've played a lot of city building games and one thing I like to do is to be able to build a stable town that runs by itself. 
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 07, 2015, 06:05:20 PM
@xyris thanks! It's good to know who's interested.

Some observations about auto-trading:
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 08, 2015, 02:24:10 AM
Yes, autotrading is a bit tricky. It works very well if you only sell stuff you don't really need, like ale and pies (pie is food and couldn't be used for everything). If you sell firewood, you must not be too greedy, and say to yourself; "Even if I only get 3 for it. it's a good business". The bigger problem with firewood is (unless you do like @Trizeropz and more or less only sell firewood) that you also need a lot of it yourself. If I trade firewood, I seldom buy food with autotrade, not mainly because of the lower price, but because too much of might be traded away.

If you really want to let this settlement be self running without attendance, I think you should eather trade as little as possible and only order the things you really need or build a couple of more trading ports and use them differently. Sell some things at some ports and other things at the others. Here too; not too greedy, it's not necessary to buy everything that's possible. ( I see that you're not using the specialized TP, that would also have been an option)

I'm sure you will find a way, and as always; I'm looking forward for the next report. :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 08, 2015, 05:57:22 AM
@Nilla  Last night after my brief auto-trade fiasco, I cut way back on the amount of firewood, tools, and coats I keep in the TPs. Coats and tools, perhaps I shall remove altogether, although I currently have 4500-5000 tools in stock; it may be reasonable to keep 250 in each TP. Tonight I am going to build the first apiary I have built in any town. I have avoided them up to now because they seem OP, but I need the honey to make pies, and auto-trading for honey is unworkable. My auto trades will be for iron, steel tools, leather and wool, cherries, milk, and pecans. I'll first need to finish removing books and honey from all my merchant orders. That will take a few years.

Currently my books all are stored in the TPs. I'll probably build another warehouse just to keep the books in. I don't really want to trade them away for food, I've been stockpiling them for the purpose of buying construction mats for eventually converting this town to NMT. I did finally get NMT added to my mod list, and made a successful test of building a large number of NMT markets and 3-story houses.

I also will need to set production limits for food, firewood, tools, and coats. I have been setting them high to give me alarms if stocks get too low, but now I shall set them so I do not over produce and fill up all my barns and stockpiles overnight.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 08, 2015, 07:56:02 PM
Year 117 - pop 746

Pop has jumped to a higher level. Children up to 100. Have built just 5 houses in 13 years and none in the past 5, so this spike is due to oldies dying off. Not sure if I should build a modest few more houses or not. Children are 13% of pop, so that is in the lower range of target. I'd prefer to support a new, higher level of pop than to risk getting a sine wave started, no matter how flat.

Took out an old forest node, replaced it with pastures, orchards, and 2 apiaries. If I'm going to do auto-trading, I figure the more self-sufficient I can be in more things, the better things will work. Also took the opportunity to alternate pastures, in case of overnight infestation.

The only other thing that's going on is getting the TPs ready to cut over to auto trade. In order to do that I first need to streamline and balance my orders so, on average, the merchants are bringing me everything that I need, and there is not any single resource that will be over- or under-bought. 
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 09, 2015, 02:54:17 AM
What about wool (and leather). If you build a lot of pastures, aren't you afraid, that your barns will be overfull of these materials?

And your strategy of never having more than one pasture with the same animal, close to each other is wise. But I wonder; are the ones on the pictures spread enough to prevent the illness to spread? Could be, but I'm not sure.

The same with your orchards. I wouldn't have built them so close, as you do on the upper side of the picture. If one gets ill, sooner rather than later, everyone will get it. And if you do nothing, it's mean. I once made a test with infestation of orchards. One tree dies, diligent farmer plants a new one at once, before the infestation is is gone from the orchard. New tree gets ill and dies, farmer plants new one without end.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 09, 2015, 05:55:04 AM
@Nilla I don't think there is much danger of filling up with wool and leather, I'm still importing it as it is, and selling some warm coats.

There are 8 tiles between the two cattle pastures in the center of the image there. I think that probably is too far to allow any infestation to spread. Is that distance known for pastures? For crops it is just 4-5 tiles, and orchards seem to be the same.

You're right about the orchards though, I need to re-do those two new ones, just make one long one above the pastures, and maybe fill in the other space with barns  ;) ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 09, 2015, 07:15:45 PM
Year 122 - pop 731

So what I've been doing this evening is simulating auto-trading, that is, I have only been buying what I would have bought if auto-trading was turned on. It's been interesting, and very helpful in fine-tuning my planned auto trades, and also my current production. As a result of doing this I have built a couple more apiaries and foresters, and have modified my merchant orders.

One thing I realized is that if you are planning to do auto-trading, and also are making warm coats, you cannot rely on the same trader to bring you both leather and wool. I'm pretty sure that you will fill up on leather and run out of wool. You need to order leather from one merchant, and wool from another, as both share the textile flag.

This goes for all commodities, you want to order just one of any single kind of commodity from any given merchant. If you are making cheese and pecan pies, don't order milk and pecans from the same merchant.

The pop sine wave is starting. I have done everything I could think of to do, and here it comes nevertheless. I'm just going to stop worrying about it. I think, at least, it will be fairly shallow.

Five new houses since the previous entry.

I still don't have all my merchant orders squared away the way I have decided to do them, so I will not be running FB overnight tonight. I'll probably do that Saturday.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: xyris on July 11, 2015, 01:12:30 AM
I wondered how to control the auto trading.  I couldn't see how to fine tune it. Now I have a better idea. :) Thank you!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 11, 2015, 02:36:28 PM
As I have been working on these auto-trades, it occurs to me that most of them are designed to maintain production of things like pies, cheese, tools, and coats, and that the reason for most of this production is to provide goods for the trading posts! This is ridiculous! I've turned off all bakeries, dairies, mills, and all but two each of smiths and tailors, which should take care of tool and coat usage. I'm also turning off a chopper and firing 2-3 foresters. I'm going to stop trading altogether, and see what happens.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 11, 2015, 05:27:54 PM
@xyris  you're welcome!  :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 11, 2015, 09:37:35 PM
Year 135 - pop 773

Well, the sine wave has kicked in for real, and once that starts you can either let it happen, or build up to a higher baseline pop. I've got this town fine-tuned and ready to run overnight, so the sine wave can just wave away for the next couple of decades.  ;)

Maybe the next time it is nearing the top, I'll start the transition to NMT. That will really make the pop climb.

I replaced every vanilla barn with a @RedKetchup Irrelevant barn. Looks so much nicer! I'll never build a vanilla barn again.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 12, 2015, 12:20:38 AM
a pleasure to see you like it :)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 12, 2015, 06:44:22 AM
Well, that certainly isn't what I expected! ;D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 12, 2015, 07:52:25 AM
Seeing as how the soft landing experiment has gone totally off the rails, with the pop currently still in free-fall, I'm taking in the 44 nomads who just showed up. I have surpluses of everything, and houses most of all, so I don't think this is going to hurt me. Much  ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: xyris on July 12, 2015, 02:54:01 PM
Well, that hasn't worked for me.  The nomad groups I accepted were mostly children and just exacerbated the problem.  But I was dealing with an uneducated population that fluctuated between 600 and 1000.  I'll go back to it when I get a new computer.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 12, 2015, 05:41:50 PM
You might remember, I have made some experiments with a constant population too, and yes; I did expect that!  ;) ;D

If you don't work wit coupling in boarding houses/closing houses it will happen. Unavoidable!

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 12, 2015, 06:38:34 PM
@Nilla which town was that? My memory is horrible  ::)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 13, 2015, 03:04:44 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on July 12, 2015, 06:38:34 PM
@Nilla which town was that? My memory is horrible  ::)

I know that, I mean the memory. Can't really believe it, but maybe we are getting old! But no, as long as we are playing computer games, I think we are still young!   ;)

In fact; I made several attempt with a constant population. Here is one: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=671.msg12045#msg12045

and here; another one: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=778.0

and I also learned a lot as I played the tiny settlement (not to compare with a real settlement, but you see the dynamics very well): http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=725.0
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 13, 2015, 07:25:15 PM
Year 160- pop 726

All my fake-demolished houses are now back up, and I can start building again. Immediately need a couple of schools and to replace producers that burned in the unattended overnighter. ;D

@Nilla, after reading  back thru your linked towns, I think you and I would be in agreement that flat pop is very difficult to achieve, and probably is not worth the struggle required to achieve, unless you are bored and looking for something to do with your time.  ;D

And now that FB is back in business, my thousands of books are burning a hole in my pocket. I'm going to finally explore what is possible with @RedKetchup's NMT mod. Here is where it will begin:

Image 1 - going to begin by demolishing this market and replacing it with NM markets and 2-3 story residences. I'll spread out from there. In general, the pastures will go, and the farms will be pushed out, replacing the forest nodes. I'll start buying logs instead of just relying on producing them. Going to spread this out across the map. Eventually I will no longer be able to produce food, as I'll hit the 999,999 limit. I'll delay this as long as I can by using warehouses to stockpile food; after that I'll use the NMT canals for TPs to import food.

Image 2 - okay, very cool! @RedKetchup I've said this before, you are the god of mod. :D
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 14, 2015, 11:23:32 AM
You can now understand, why I'm so fond of these houses. I'm also very fond of the canal trading ports (even those I used in an improper way ;) )

Just one advice (or maybe two ) : Don't forget to level the ground, before you build a canal trading port. If the ground isn't completely flat, it doesn't look as nice as otherwise.

If you want some nomads, keep one of the original ports. As far as I have noticed; these ports don't attract nomads, nor does the "no more seeds" mod from @slink works.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 14, 2015, 01:09:26 PM
Quote from: Nilla on July 14, 2015, 11:23:32 AM
As far as I have noticed; these ports don't attract nomads, nor does the "no more seeds" mod from @slink works.
I'm using No More Seeds, and nomads come all the time.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 14, 2015, 02:29:58 PM
But I see a normal trading port, and as long as you have at least one of those, nomads will arrive.

And do really no merchant with seeds or animals arrive to the medieval trading port? As I tried that mod; they arrived as usual. I haven't used it for a long time, so maybe it works on those TP as well, only my mod is too old.  ???
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 14, 2015, 06:27:14 PM
Ah, okay, I thought you meant if you were using that no seeds mod, none would come.

Has anyone used the medieval clinic as a ground floor element in a town? My initial reaction to that is that, it would not be such a good idea.

Progress:

Year 162 - pop 886

Those pastures are the next to go, relocating across the river in the sticks. Going to start at the other market and NMT the whole place there, too.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 15, 2015, 02:52:54 AM
I used it in my big settlement and had two big epidemics. But I also had a couple of infections of deceases, that could have lead to an epidemic, but didn't. So I have no good answer to that. The small clinic has no happines radius. So it doesn't attract idlers, but the people who just pass by, might be infected.

I made a small Banished brake again but did start a new settlement yesterday. I don't know if it's interesting enough to blog; I will make another try, to fill a medium map with the NMT-buildings. It annoyed me, that the bugs stopped me the last time.  I think I will use the small clinics (haven't built one yet). I think, I will build a lot of them, but avoid places where people pass by. So only the people who live close, might catch the disease from people in medical care. I'm not sure that it is a good idea, but it's hard to avoid an epidemic in a dense built settlement. I know that a normal number of "good" located normal hospitals don't work. Maybe a larger number of smaller clinics could work better. You must catch patient zero! Fast! And than hope for thee best.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 15, 2015, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: Nilla on July 15, 2015, 02:52:54 AM
...it's hard to avoid an epidemic in a dense built settlement. I know that a normal number of "good" located normal hospitals don't work. Maybe a larger number of smaller clinics could work better. You must catch patient zero! Fast! And than hope for thee best.
Yes, that has been my experience as well!  ;) Perhaps having a number of clinics about, off the main roads as you describe, could work.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: rkelly17 on July 16, 2015, 10:14:34 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on July 15, 2015, 11:37:18 AM
Quote from: Nilla on July 15, 2015, 02:52:54 AM
...it's hard to avoid an epidemic in a dense built settlement. I know that a normal number of "good" located normal hospitals don't work. Maybe a larger number of smaller clinics could work better. You must catch patient zero! Fast! And than hope for thee best.
Yes, that has been my experience as well!  ;) Perhaps having a number of clinics about, off the main roads as you describe, could work.

As long as the clinics are built so that no one, or almost no one, can get inside the "infection radius" for whichever sick person is in the clinic. Lately I've been building @RedKetchup's stone walls out seven spaces in all directions from my hospitals, leaving only a gate in front as access. This keeps people at the right distance for most diseases, though not for the two that have a larger radius (Cholera and one other). As @Nilla says, the trick is getting patient zero inside the fence before infecting anyone. No matter how well hospitals and clinics are placed, you can't always do that, especially if the person has a task to be completed before visiting the doctor. And, even with Red's "Bobbi Special Doctor House" mod, you can't keep children from playing inside the fence--they seem to move at random, and then play more after they are infected so often spreading the disease to others. If it weren't for those meddling kids . . . .
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 16, 2015, 11:50:54 AM
the best is to make a mod called : Vaccination
that will immune all citizens to all disease LOL
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: xyris on July 16, 2015, 03:32:15 PM
I've built houses over the clinics and had no problems.  But only two infectious diseases so far, and it's not a large settlement. 

Both clinics are away from main roads.  One has a field across the road and the farmer was infected.  Not sure if it was influenza or yellow fever.  The second clinic has a small cemetery behind it.  None of the idlers caught anything which is interesting.  Maybe the infection point is the front of the building.

Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 16, 2015, 06:24:06 PM
Quote from: rkelly17 on July 16, 2015, 10:14:34 AM
As long as the clinics are built so that no one, or almost no one, can get inside the "infection radius" for whichever sick person is in the clinic. Lately I've been building @RedKetchup's stone walls out seven spaces in all directions from my hospitals, leaving only a gate in front as access. This keeps people at the right distance for most diseases, though not for the two that have a larger radius (Cholera and one other). As @Nilla says, the trick is getting patient zero inside the fence before infecting anyone. No matter how well hospitals and clinics are placed, you can't always do that, especially if the person has a task to be completed before visiting the doctor. And, even with Red's "Bobbi Special Doctor House" mod, you can't keep children from playing inside the fence--they seem to move at random, and then play more after they are infected so often spreading the disease to others. If it weren't for those meddling kids . . . .
If that person with a task is not a laborer, a student, or a child, you can send him to the doctor immediately by firing him from his job. That will send him to the doctor unless he is on his way home to eat or get warm, those are the only two tasks that take priority over going to the doctor.

You fire him by finding out where he works, and clicking off the "work" button. You can click it back on after he is on his way to the doctor.

Quote from: RedKetchup on July 16, 2015, 11:50:54 AM
the best is to make a mod called : Vaccination
that will immune all citizens to all disease LOL

Well, you could do that by going into the disease table and changing all the "chance," "radius," and "death," parameters for every disease to 0. Actually, probably just changing one single type would do it, but why mess around? I bet that would be a popular mod.  ;) ;)

Quote from: xyris on July 16, 2015, 03:32:15 PM
I've built houses over the clinics and had no problems.  But only two infectious diseases so far, and it's not a large settlement. 

Both clinics are away from main roads.  One has a field across the road and the farmer was infected.  Not sure if it was influenza or yellow fever.  The second clinic has a small cemetery behind it.  None of the idlers caught anything which is interesting.  Maybe the infection point is the front of the building.
The infection point is a circle, with a radius of 8-10 tiles, centered on the sick bannie. This is large enough that it extends well outside a hospital, far enough to infect passers-by.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 16, 2015, 08:43:19 PM
Year 164- pop 976

Taking a break from housing expansion in order to concentrate on food production and accumulation.

Food inventory is declining because I am sucking it up into warehouses. Got about 150k food socked away so far. I'll need millions, eventually ;)
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 17, 2015, 04:41:31 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on July 16, 2015, 08:43:19 PM
I'll need millions, eventually ;)

Do I smell a "record braking" attempt? Or else, what is your purpose collecting all that food?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 17, 2015, 06:02:29 AM
@Nilla Yes, I'm planning to make this a big town. I want to see how differently a big NMT town works from a big vanilla town like Sink Mill.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 17, 2015, 10:36:11 AM
Quote from: irrelevant on July 17, 2015, 06:02:29 AM
@Nilla Yes, I'm planning to make this a big town. I want to see how differently a big NMT town works from a big vanilla town like Sink Mill.

seems the number to beat now is 10,000 hehe
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 17, 2015, 11:02:19 AM
@RedKetchup I don't think that is going to happen  ;) ;D I'll just muddle on through with firewood, ale, and pies and maybe get 2-3000.

edit: actually, I don't think it's going to happen with this town at all. It's too-well established to a different philosophy. I started it out building for stability and longevity. There's so many things made that I have to tear down. For example, I was never going to make trading a main priority. So many of the TP sites have other things built on them already, bridges, houses, markets. I think I'd be better off starting a new town, if max pop was what I was after. But I'm going to continue this town in order to learn how to properly use NMT and the canals.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: xyris on July 17, 2015, 05:51:13 PM
Quote from: irrelevant on July 16, 2015, 06:24:06 PM


Quote from: xyris on July 16, 2015, 03:32:15 PM
I've built houses over the clinics and had no problems.  But only two infectious diseases so far, and it's not a large settlement. 

Both clinics are away from main roads.  One has a field across the road and the farmer was infected.  Not sure if it was influenza or yellow fever.  The second clinic has a small cemetery behind it.  None of the idlers caught anything which is interesting.  Maybe the infection point is the front of the building.
The infection point is a circle, with a radius of 8-10 tiles, centered on the sick bannie. This is large enough that it extends well outside a hospital, far enough to infect passers-by.

Sorry, that was sloppy writing.  The clinic is five by five.  Where in that five by five square is the sick bannie?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 17, 2015, 07:02:39 PM
@xyris I don't know about the clinic, I haven't been using them very long. But in a regular hospital, the patient seems to be in the middle of the building's depth, directly in line with the door.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 17, 2015, 08:53:15 PM
@RedKetchup your canals are absolutely brilliant! Hats off to you, mon ami. :D :D

Why are there different widths? Any functional difference?
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 18, 2015, 03:40:20 AM
functionnal ? no, just the look.

some people prefer to save the most place possible why other it has no importance and will go for the best looking ones : larges ones.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: Nilla on July 18, 2015, 03:52:53 AM
I love that bridge; I suppose you have used the "leveling" tool. Nice!

And @RedKetchup; I don't find the larger canals better looking. But as always; it's a matter of taste and it's very good that you offer different possibilities. That's one of the really great thing with the NMT: the many possibilities!
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: RedKetchup on July 18, 2015, 03:59:22 AM
yup a matter of taste. also some people prefer to see the merchant having more space and less clipping
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 18, 2015, 10:49:00 AM
Been working on this town for 9 months, I think it's time to move on. I'm going to keep it around for testing purposes, but I'm ready for a new start.
Title: Re: irrelevant: Frenchman's Bend: trying for a soft landing
Post by: irrelevant on July 18, 2015, 12:41:26 PM
Quote from: Nilla on July 18, 2015, 03:52:53 AM
I love that bridge; I suppose you have used the "leveling" tool. Nice!

And @RedKetchup; I don't find the larger canals better looking. But as always; it's a matter of taste and it's very good that you offer different possibilities. That's one of the really great thing with the NMT: the many possibilities!
No, the leveling tool was not needed here.

Possibilities, yes!! No more worrying about squeezing every TP possible onto the river.