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How to Decide what The Buildings are Made Out Of (Realistic)

Started by KIM16, December 07, 2018, 03:23:58 AM

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Gatherer

Are we're experiencing another wave of thought that everything should be compatible with CC/MM? :-\  Perhaps next versions of those two should be made explicitly compatible as an add-ons to RKEC or The North mod. :P

Yes, I'm one of those players who will not use mods with different types of planks, cut stones, paint, plaster, furniture,... If this idea goes forward I guess I'll just have to stick to older versions of my favourite mods.

To each their own. ;)
There's never enough deco stuff!!!
Fiat panis.

RedKetchup

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KIM16

Well maybe there will be a new update to the game one day, or modders will get access to more things. But for now maybe agree on most common building materials and make mods compatible as much as possible. Everyone agreed on windmills and bakeries :)

RedKetchup

we totally know people wont use 1 single mod. yes there are the CC players, and the MM players that only swear by those....

and there are us! we totally know there are people who use many mods, they would like that everything imbricate together. we know it.
and there is also : what we want to do :)
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KIM16

Why are we people playing games so much and obsessing over them go play with the bunnies outside.  :P It's late. Good night everyone sleep well.. :)

Gatherer

Quote from: KIM16 on December 07, 2018, 03:30:08 PM
But for now maybe agree on most common building materials and make mods compatible as much as possible.


We already agreed on those long ago. Stone, logs, lumber, bricks, roof tiles, glass, iron and thatch.
There's never enough deco stuff!!!
Fiat panis.

theonlywanderer

#36
I would have to ask once again....   why would anyone not like CC when the exact mods they want are in there?   I'm a bit confused on that.   Is it hate just for the sake of hating it?    I wasn't around for all the CC and MM bashing I guess.

MM has already achieved a cohesive update using CC, RK, EB, DS... Kid... and others.  So it's every bit possible to keep that going since it's already well established.   Why start from scratch?

KIM16

I just wish that there is balance when it comes to building material. If you look at a house and it has glass windows than that should be one of building materials required. There are too many houses that look so advanced but only need stone and log to build. I suggested a sytem here to make things realistic and balanced. By looking at the buildings roof, wall and windows building materials can be determend. I love cc it is really good mod, but it can be still be improved and more compatible with other mods :)

elemental

Quote from: KIM16 on December 08, 2018, 12:46:08 AM
If you look at a house and it has glass windows than that should be one of building materials required. There are too many houses that look so advanced but only need stone and log to build. I love cc it is really good mod, but it can be still be improved and more compatible with other mods :)

I totally agree with you there. CC isn't perfect, but it's not bad. Red mentioned that there might be an update to CC sometime in the new year. Now that we have 6 materials instead of just 3 they might take a look at improving that part of their mod.

Tom Sawyer

#39
I like this illustrated list of building materials. Also any discussion on this topic. It's a source of inspiration for modders. Unification should not be the goal in my opinion. Our mods are as different as player's preferences, and that's a good thing. It was always tried to establish CC as the unified system and it failed for good reasons but was toxic for the modding community. It also leads to phrases like if you don't like the complex system, just use debug. That's not an answer on the reasonable arguments for simple solutions in this simple game. It's already a thing with generic wood vs. logs and lumber/timber/planks. Both ideas have their points. Same with reeds/thatch, nice to experiment with this material but makes also sense to keep it as a free resource for F variants and to not mess with unsatisfying reeds seeding workarounds. What caught my interest is the last picture. It can be a very nice tavern or something else for banished people. I get the wish to make it, probably also to escape from Blender right now and I should resist.^^

Edit found it.. the Bishop's house in Sheffield from Tudor period. A really nice one.

theonlywanderer

#40
I will try and put my statement about using debug in to better context, Tom.

The division I see happening is between people wanting mods to have more building requirements and those who don't. 

The ones who see it as a problem obviously don't want to install mods that will produce those requirements, but they still want to use the building itself.   Without an additional mod, adding glass to the game, they won't be able to build anything that requires glass since they can't make it and the traders won't bring it.   I get it... 

Some people don't like the complexity, I get it.  But why?   Let's face it, the game is already beyond easy so how many levels of easier are there between it's current state and debug?    At some point, the player has to admit to themselves that they should just use Debug.   Perfect example is growing rocks and iron like trees..  really?  Before debug, some of these had a place, but after debug, it's a whole new outlook.   If you need something to make the game easier, well... DEBUG!   The solution now exists, it's already available, use it.    Why continue being redundant?

By making things more complex, you aren't leaving anyone behind.  Debug isn't going anywhere and everyone still has access to all the same buildings.   Making things less complex, you are indeed leaving everyone else behind who wants the complexity.  You can't use Debug to create complexity, so complexity gets left behind.

Does this not make sense?   Complex way, everyone wins, the easy way only the easy way wins.   I vote that everyone wins.

Abandoned

@Tom Sawyer I agree that mod variety for different player's preferences is a good thing  :) and here at WOB we have a wonderful selection of mods to suit everyone.  It is wonderful we are given so many choices and of course if players do not like the simpler basic mods they don't have to use them, since they are using debug on the more complex mods.  It is nice to play simpler when life is complex and play more complex when time permits.  The choices are also wonderful for players with less powerful systems so they too find new mods here that they can use and enjoy.  Everyone benefits.

New additions to the North look fantastic.  :)

theonlywanderer

#42
~~"if players do not like the simpler basic mods they don't have to use them, since they are using debug on the more complex mods."~~

This makes absolutely no sense at all.     Why would somebody not use a house just because it didn't require more complex stuff to build?   Sorry, but that's silly.   Maybe they don't like the style of house, that's one thing, but just because it's too simple to build?  Nonsense!   The motive in your comment is quite obvious though.

I don't believe any complex mods require extra PC power either.  The PC issues really only occur due to population issues and pathing.   Even with a powerful PC it can take a bit to load with lots of mods installed and that's more to do with the quantity of mods, not the complexity of what it takes to build something in the game.

If you have 10 mods for different houses that require logs and stone to build, it's the same load time for 10 mods of different houses that need stone, lumber, glass, building supplies and furnishings.   

Tom Sawyer

I got what you mean with debug @theonlywanderer but I don't think it would be a solution. It's not just about placing a building for free if someone doesn't like the mats. Players who don't want the maximum set of resources may prefer a focused setting where every material has a meaningful function and balanced values, where production limits are working well, inventories are not flooded with items and where overview window and townhall statistics are not confused. Those players like the game clear and consistent, maybe also challenging. They don't want to grow stones like trees and also not to debug. Especially not to debug because it breaks all the consistency and challenge they were looking for. Performance on weaker systems can be another reason as Abandoned says.

That's probably not the majority of players but if you want all people winning then don't try to unify mods or to prescribe a set of resources. Better if modders can follow different concepts and players can chose what they prefer. I wrote it also because we had similar talks and it only leads to disputes about the right religion and with upset people in the end. As you already can see here. :)

theonlywanderer

#44
Why would anyone have to ditch their personal mods?     This is what I don't understand.

Can't a unified series exist alongside their separate goals?   I realize there is only so much a modder can do, as someone clearly stated, they aren't robots.   But there isn't any reason several directions can't coexist.

Since the models are separate from the programming, It seems obvious they can have variations in programming.

One variation can stick to vanilla level items to build and will function within any game.  This seems to be the easier route, programming wise, since only existing code needs to be used and only have to change some in code filenames, right?  Compile this and send it off as a vanilla level mod.

The other variation can be part of a unified version, which just takes the already existent model and revamps the programming to be part of a more unified experience that includes more complex product chains.   Once the unified programming code is setup, it should once again be a matter of changing some filenames in the code.    Compile this and send it off as the unified mod.

And no.. I'm not even trying to make light of what is involved in modeling and programming.  Just trying to communicate without writing a book for a comment.