Author Topic: Nilla-testing the North6  (Read 2002 times)

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2018, 09:07:28 AM »
Yes, you can add this mill. It works well for firewood. It also brings lumber in your game but it is not a problem. The only thing is that merchants sometimes bring lumber instead of bricks. To produce it for export will probably not make sense yet. I have to update the mod for this.

Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #76 on: January 09, 2018, 04:10:32 AM »
It's time to show a few more pictures from my Abbevi.

First picture

Yes, I´ve built the mill. The old Ludwight, who's assigned woodchopper and always been some kind of inventor, built it, because he found woodchopping to heavy for an old guy. It looks great in this game together with the North buildings. It works proper. It doesn't make much more firewood than a small chopper, but you can use more than 1 worker so it's OK. But you're right @Tom Sawyer, to use the lumber alternative, there has to be some "tweaks" of the numbers.

I keep the menus with my single youngsters open. I want to have some control of how many new homes are needed. It works quite well with a handfull. I also wanted to keep an eye on the happiness of young Arthurson, who lost his mother.

But.......

Second picture

Unfortunately both he and his father died of measles. :(   :'(

Since measles is a pretty bad decease, there are plenty of other children who lost parents to keep an eye on instead. I even have one family with 7 (!) children. I guess there must have been 3 families involved here. You can also see, that there have been a lot of empty houses for young folks to move to.

You can also see the beginning of my latest extention of the village. I now have a concept. I will try to fill this map. (except that small part in the south by the river). Left of the mountain (blue marked), there will be "old times" with farming and forestry, right "modern times" with red houses and early industry. It will take a while but it's still fun.

Third picture

This is the 5th (!) major deceases since year 40 (before that no decease) ??? 2 time Scarlat Fever, 2 time Measles and now Yellow Fever (I would take that tropical decease away from the North @Tom Sawyer). This seems odd. You have said, that unhealthy people get more sick and that you have increased this effect, but my people are all very healthy. Is this only bad luck or have you tweaked something else?

I have cut the menu of young Rome from about a year earlier. She must have lost one parent, but she started to recover happiness, as she moved out from home. It took some time, but now with a little baby, she's perfectly happy.

Fourth picture

The many deceases made me surrender my original plan, to play completely "old times" west from the "Big Mountain". I'm not sure, that I will use it, but you might have noticed that I'm not the most patient person. And these setbacks every other year with 10-30 deaths. I think, historically very correct, but NO fun!!

You can see the menu from young Mathie. She lost all her stars. I guess, she lost one parent late in the second measles epidemic, as the graveyards (9+32 graves for some 200 people!!) were full. She hasn't recovered any stars. I just ran the game a little, to see if something changes, when she gets a baby, but it doesn´t. Still unhappy.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #77 on: January 09, 2018, 09:00:00 AM »
I increased the chance of diseases for unhealthy people only in Ironman. In Norseman there are vanilla values. But it's not only bad luck. You have way more merchants and nomads in your game than in vanilla. Both can bring diseases to your village and the chance is rather high. Maybe we should decrease this chance to balance the higher frequency.

Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #78 on: January 09, 2018, 11:23:37 AM »
I increased the chance of diseases for unhealthy people only in Ironman. In Norseman there are vanilla values. But it's not only bad luck. You have way more merchants and nomads in your game than in vanilla. Both can bring diseases to your village and the chance is rather high. Maybe we should decrease this chance to balance the higher frequency.

First, I like the idea, that it's more likely to get a decease, if health is bad. I would like it to be a part of the North.

Then; this is Norseman. It's right, I take a lot of nomads. In fact, so far every nomad that arrives. But I don't think that's an exception, if you want some kind of "speed" in your game. Now with some 250 people, it doesn't matter that much, if one more nomad family arrives in spring or not. But earlier; I wouldn't have liked to play "real time aging" without them. I think, taking these nomads will be quite normal. We know, that @brads3 and @Abandoned have always played "real time" aging in the games they have blogged and they take a lot of nomads, too. So, yes, I would find it reasonable, to set the chance down, that nomads spread the deceases in Norseman, but maybe not in the North generally (if possible).

Trade might be a bit different. I have 4 trading docks. This settlement doesn't need more than 1 (or maybe 2 if I don't want to produce any tools ay all). The main reason, that I've built so many, is that I have a lot of goods to sell and I want to have a real use for your lovely bank later: I accumulate gold and silver. And since I want the high price for my goods, I wait for the "right" merchant. That's the reason for the trading dock spamming. I don't mind, if this is "punished" with a higher chance of decease.

Online brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #79 on: January 09, 2018, 12:41:53 PM »
your death rate from those diseases seems high. do you have a doctor? i set the herb count to 1000 at start so the laborers run the count up as they clear land.i am running a mine safety mod and have less accident deaths but not sure if it impacts diseases.since you mentioned it i'll ask. does your game speed impact the death or disease rates? in other words you have diseases 8 times as often as a normal speed game and possably 8 times the death rates?odd but i suppose possable. sounds like TOM increased the disease rate with the traders. i wonder if somehow he changed the death factor as well,maybe without realizing it even?
     
       a disease that slows down the workers is one thing. the many deaths you have seems to negate the reason to take in nomads.

Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #80 on: January 09, 2018, 03:39:38 PM »
I had no, doctor! That's the point. This is "old times", you know. Doctors were as far as I know unknown at the viking area/early medieval times, at least in our neighborhood (maybe the Arabs were a bit further). That's why I wrote, that I surrendered my original plan and built a doctor after the 5th decease. I haven't used it yet and I'm not sure I will, because I do want to play "old times" in all its consequences. I'll  let you know if the repeated deceases beat me.

In any case, more or less everyone gets ill. And each decease has its statistical mortality. I don't think it's tweaked in any way here. And @brads3, unless you play "Ironman" or some other mod with the same effect; health and decease are totally independent. So if you have 0 or 1000 herbs, doesn't matter. If you have enough doctors or not, however, matters a lot.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #81 on: January 09, 2018, 04:09:00 PM »
As I wrote, all values of diseases are vanilla in Norseman and not even part of the North mod. It's only changed in the Ironman mod. Also, vanilla Banished already includes the difference between healthy and unhealthy people. And the only effect in a Nordic game or in every other modded game with additional nomad attractors is to get more diseases just because of more events to trigger them.

My idea is to adjust the vanilla values which are balanced for vanilla nomads and merchants. It just can be annoying to be hit by diseases too often and then its really no fun. At least this map here tells me that it should happen more seldom. These values are in the citizen resource file and that means to include real time aging in this mod together with changed diseases and maybe a more relevant happiness system. If most people play with Norseman anyway and vanilla speed aging is solved by early game nomads there might be no reason anymore to keep it separate. So that's an option. :)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 04:30:15 PM by Tom Sawyer »

Offline galensgranny

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #82 on: January 10, 2018, 01:07:54 AM »
I had no, doctor! That's the point. This is "old times", you know. Doctors were as far as I know unknown at the viking area/early medieval times, at least in our neighborhood (maybe the Arabs were a bit further). That's why I wrote, that I surrendered my original plan and built a doctor after the 5th decease. I haven't used it yet and I'm not sure I will, because I do want to play "old times" in all its consequences. I'll  let you know if the repeated deceases beat me.

The vikings of old might not have had what we consider doctors or even what the Arabs of the time were doing medically, but they certainly had people tending to wounds and broken bones.  They wouldn't have likely had a separate building for that, but just pretend they did, or that the doctor building in the game is actually a house a person who cares for wounds lives in.

Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #83 on: January 10, 2018, 02:02:08 AM »
I'm sure you're right @galensgranny, even though I don't think, there would have been special buildings for sick and wounded people. I'm also sure, that there were "wise ladies" who could heal and ease illnesses and pain, but I'm pretty sure, that none of them could do much in cases of inflectional deceases, like Scarlat Fever, Measles, and Yellow Fever (if some viking who returned from a very long journey, happened to get that decease).

Maybe later in medieval times, there were some hospital-like building connected to monasteries. So maybe I should load the monastery mod from @RedKetchup to this game and build it together with a bigger church close to the hospital............... hm...... I'll think of it.

Sorry @brads3; you´re right; your herbs would help a bit to lower the probability of deseases.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #84 on: January 10, 2018, 03:32:39 AM »
You could use the mini-buildings mod where the hospital is just a tent.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #85 on: January 10, 2018, 10:37:01 AM »
I find healer/herbalist a suitable health profession of old times. Diseases like plague and all the other funny things Luke added to the game people never could heal in the Middle Ages, also not in a monastery. Actually only after the 19th century when they got knowledge about infections and antibiotics. So if you play a medieval scenario consistently then you actually have to leave hospitals out and to deal with heavily decimated populations by diseases. ;D

Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #86 on: January 11, 2018, 03:26:39 AM »
To be honest, it wouldn't have been possible to heal these deceases until the second half of the 20Th century or maybe not at all. When I was a child Scarlac Fever was much worse than today. If you got it, you had to be isolated in the hospital and I don't think, there was a real cure. I can remember, maybe around 1960, that my cousin got it and we visited her in the hospital and had to stay in a room next to hers with a window and a speaker. But as my daughter got it in the 1990s it was harmless, treated with antibiotics and fast gone. I had Measles myself and it was seen as a bad classical childhood decease. I don't think, it can be cured today eather, just prevented with vaccination. So the Banished hospital is unrealistic no matter what. But this is a computer game, so I've built it and I've used it! :-\ :-[  Maybe some other time, I will play withot hospital.

Some picture and some comments.

First picture

I like the thought of some kind of monastery. With a doctor, church, later a school and some other official buildings. They have a chapel, so they are Christian, so why not? I thought of the monastery from Red. It's nice and make valuable books, excellent to trade for a small community. But I have more goods to trade away, than I need and I have my doubts on the compability; using coal, leather and wood, if I remember it right. This is how my monastery looks now. I will develop it further later, looking a bit different than the other settlement.

Second picture


Here's the population graph. I've marked the deceases: red - Scarlat Fever, blue - Measles, yellow - Yellow Fever. The number of deaths is not that devastating. The settlement would grow even without a doctor (unless you get several of these rare and very lethal deceases) but the repeated setbacks annoys me and makes it harder to test the "flow" in a "normal" game.

The south west part of the settlement is done. I try to make it easy for the vendors; producing all food categories and firewood in the area.

Third picture

This is a request to all modders, not to make any buildings without a road in front of the entrance. This poor child is stuck at the door opening and can't get away. She will starve or freeze to death. This because I built the diary hut too close to the barn. I know, it's my fault and I should have paid more attention, but it would be easier, if it wasn't possible to make these mistakes.

Fourth picture

I have so many menus open in most of my screenshots, so I just want to give you a better impression of my village without. Wagon vendors is a "must". Look great, fit the buildings and are obviously very popular! :)

Fifth picture
The big church also attracts nomads. But opposite to the small chapel, they can't make their way to the settlement. :(  I tried to make them work in this small isolated place; clear some wood, build a barn and collect some food, but they will not work!

Does anyone know, how the nomad arriving works. Can things like these be prevented somehow? Normally they come from somewhere on the edge of the map, it's seldom problems with obstacles like these. On rare occasions, I've had some who got stuck on the other side of a small stream, but normally they come from somewhere close to the settlement.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #87 on: January 11, 2018, 03:31:09 AM »
do you have bridges on the main river so they can pass ? (right part of the map main river, or south left part ?
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Online Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #88 on: January 11, 2018, 03:41:11 AM »
No bridges, and I'm not sure, that it would help, because there are also big mountains on the way. I'll build a bridge to see, if it works for the next "batch" of nomads. Do they always come from the same place?

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #89 on: January 11, 2018, 04:05:17 AM »
No bridges, and I'm not sure, that it would help, because there are also big mountains on the way.

they certainly can walk between the mountains and the lake (on the shore of the lake)
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