News:

Welcome to World of Banished!

Main Menu

DS Industry Mining - BETAv.05

Started by Discrepancy, July 05, 2019, 07:35:28 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Nilla

I don´t understand you people; you Mark, @brads3 and others: why do you need everything at the same time? RKED is great, DS Industrial Mining is great but I don´t need them together. These mods are both strong enough to stand alone without any other major mods. Even if you might get it to work, you will lose the "feeling" of each mod if you mix them.

Sorry, I forgot what I wanted to say;

the silver mine still makes problems. People are just carrying lamp oil and timber back and forth without producing anything.

brads3

NILLA, i have explained why i add the mods i do. `1 reasonis to prove what can ve done and push the game cuase i know others will.this gives info to help solve issues other players may have. in MARKS case,the next step would be to add KID's FO NAT DIV version above the DS and RK. this should not alter any of the DS. Forest Outpost,DS,then RK. what this should do is give the RK wild animals and DS mining and lumber productions.
thatch-fodder becomes a fuel to most houses,DS has some that will not use the thatch.the thatch does not have to be bundled for the houses to burn it. there are other changes. the FO buildings require thatch as a build material so does the RK beekeeper,some pastures,and some vanilla re-textured RK buildings.the start wood houses and the start barn shuld require thatch.since thatch does die off after a few years, you may need the fodder hut to grow more thatch.

  depending on what all you want from the RK, this is the fastest and best option to solve the thatch not being burned. i havent loaded the new DS mods. i woud recommend running a debug test of the TH inventory for items missing.since the DS is overriding the thatch it might be wise to run a quick test of gatherer to see what else might be missing.

MarkAnthony

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
I don´t understand you people; you Mark, @brads3 and others: why do you need everything at the same time?
Hmmm. "You people" implies plural; plural begets differences. Should we all be clones of one another; that'd be boring no? You are absolutely right, these mods are definitely strong enough to stand on their own and I play them... on their own quite often.

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 10:03:46 AM... but I don´t need them together.
Then don't. But why so serious? are you judging how others play the game and the mod choices they choose?

You know some times, I like to dye my hair green and go crazy and try new things! Woohoo!   :P   I didn't realize I was the only one mixing mods.

... Oh wait!



P.S.: Sorry, but this was fair in my opinion.

               
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

Don´t take everything so serious, I´m not judging you or anyone else @MarkAnthony. You can mix what you like to mix, test what you like to test. But you must also expect some kind of problems when you´re mixing "too wild", especially major mods where the modders have their own ideas about the "classification" and use of different materials. And I know, @brads3 you like to push the game to see what´s possible. I´m even quite impressed by how you´re trying to make these "impossible" mixtures. Of course, you´ll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that you´ll also lose things. The mod on top will always "override" features from the mods below. That´s all I wanted to say; as it looks not clear and nice enough since you got offended @MarkAnthony. I´m sorry about that.

brads3

there is always "give and take" to it for sure. the top mod does not always override eberything of the mod below it.only if that part of the coding was included with the mod above will it do that. and even then you can add to it in many cases. such as i can add a North od below RK and change the climate to the north but still have RED's wid animals skinned as KIDs bison.LOL

MarkAnthony

I wasn't offended Nilla.

I play my DS-only games and I play my RKEC-only games and I had fantastic experiences playing my RKEC+DS games. I especially love the two together.

My question to Discrepancy about DS Industry Mining working with RKEC was just to continue that fantastic experience with Discrepancy's newest and greatest creation, DS Industry Mining. My previous RKEC+DS games did not include DS Industry Mining because it did not exist publicly at the time I started playing Banished.

I would love to include DS Industry Mining into my RKEC+DS games, but if that cannot ever happen that is okay for I can still go back to my DS-Only games to scratch that itch.

I'm handing back this thread to Discrepancy. Sorry it got derailed a bit in it's purpose.
               
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

I´m sorry too for hijacking the thread.

Again, I wanted to report a possible bug. The big mine you can build on the ground; Thadd Surrel and family 2 Industrial Mine produces far less than the first, you can build at the mountain; intention or bug?

MarkAnthony

I noticed that as well but I wrote it off to being the trade-off for being able to build the big mine wherever you wanted instead of having to do it at a hill/mountain side.
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

Yes, it´s possible, that it´s intentional but mine nr 2 is expensive to build and has a huge negative impact on happiness, so I find the difference a bit too large to be reasonable. Especially as the mine nr 1 doesn´t have a very large footprint.

Discrepancy

Quote from: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 12:15:41 AM
I'm really enjoying DS Industry Mining @Discrepancy you've done a wonderful job with it.
So I tried adding RKEC back into the mix but I am thinking that maybe DS Industry Mining needs to go above RKEC because the Limits window has changed considerably with RKEC on top and I am wondering if it would mess things up with DS Industry Mining?
And if I do need to put DS Industry Mining above RKEC then I assume I must also put BetterStockPiles and DSTimberMill above too since those need to be above DS Industry Mining?
Thanks, glad you are enjoying it.
At this stage yes you are going to run into a few problems whether you put it above or below. Both mods are modifying the start conditions and map spawns, my mod is altering many of the production chains and values to be different also. Though I did say quite a while ago I was going to make it compatible, I am not going to until I myself have made the mod I want to make. Though any compatible version I could release of this mod is likely to be heavily reduced as so much of the resource and production chains would not be worthwhile producing.

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 04:42:07 AM
Found a small bug; the price for iron (and I guess the other metals) are changed but not the price for tools.
Thanks, not sure what happened there... I didn't make a copy of the last beta's sourcecode and have already altered them all again so not sure tbh if i missed this.

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 10:03:46 AM
the silver mine still makes problems. People are just carrying lamp oil and timber back and forth without producing anything.
Thanks, I'll have a look again, though code all looks correct. Might be the work points.

Quote from: brads3 on August 02, 2019, 10:28:49 AM
... in MARKS case,the next step would be to add KID's FO NAT DIV version above the DS and RK. this should not alter any of the DS. Forest Outpost,DS,then RK. what this should do is give the RK wild animals and DS mining and lumber productions.
thatch-fodder becomes a fuel to most houses,DS has some that will not use the thatch.the thatch does not have to be bundled for the houses to burn it. there are other changes. the FO buildings require thatch as a build material so does the RK beekeeper,some pastures,and some vanilla re-textured RK buildings.the start wood houses and the start barn shuld require thatch.since thatch does die off after a few years, you may need the fodder hut to grow more thatch.
I don't think that that will work either. Too many changes from my mod.

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 11:40:15 AM
You can mix what you like to mix, test what you like to test. But you must also expect some kind of problems when you´re mixing "too wild", especially major mods where the modders have their own ideas about the "classification" and use of different materials....
...Of course, you´ll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that you´ll also lose things. The mod on top will always "override" features from the mods below.
Nilla is correct.

Quote from: MarkAnthony on August 02, 2019, 12:35:02 PM
My question to Discrepancy about DS Industry Mining working with RKEC was just to continue that fantastic experience with Discrepancy's newest and greatest creation, DS Industry Mining. My previous RKEC+DS games did not include DS Industry Mining because it did not exist publicly at the time I started playing Banished.
I would love to include DS Industry Mining into my RKEC+DS games, but if that cannot ever happen that is okay for I can still go back to my DS-Only games to scratch that itch.
Though you can by all means try the mod with others, you are not going to be able to get the full experience. The last update I started adjusting the economy even further from standard Banished, this is also taking it further away from RKEC, the next update will be even more so. Production chains in RKEC will possibly be broken, and likely to be a lot cheaper... remember I have an added cost to mining, it is more expensive to smelt copper/iron etc in my mod, stone mining has changed. In other words, too much has changed and is still changing while in beta for me to be able to make the mod work with another at this point of time :)

Quote from: Nilla on August 02, 2019, 12:39:58 PM
Again, I wanted to report a possible bug. The big mine you can build on the ground; Thadd Surrel and family 2 Industrial Mine produces far less than the first, you can build at the mountain; intention or bug?
Again another I cannot see why this is occurring, Thadd Surrel & family: 2nd Industry Mine has a workRequired of 21 and workTime of 3.8, whereas the Thadd Surrel & family: Industry Mine has a workRequired of 21 and workTime of 4.1. The 2nd Industry Mine should be quicker. Oh well, I'll re do the points and check. Thanks.




I was planning on releasing another version this weekend but might have to hold off a bit as I finalise the changes and make sure they are actually active and working as expected.
Tools and metals will be increased in value by 2-300%. Most production chains have had changes in the inputs/outputs. Fuel will be used more by citizens, and you will find it harder to keep up with fuel production, putting a larger demand on logs, hopefully this will get players to start using the coal-coke for a metal fuel.

brads3

DS can you add to the down load page a list of the flag limits and what items you have under them? that would be helpful to see what all is different betwen the mods.

map spawns are touchy. from my experience we can alter but not add to the minerals or stone,, same with the animals. we can in some cases add trees,plants,and foods.

Discrepancy

@brads3 , limits are still only the limits, they aren't going to make much difference, most of my limits will still work fine with other mods be it RKEC, Kids, the North, CC. It is more so the change in production and values of resources, and yes of course the map spawns, my map requires these, as does perhaps RK's.
I'll quote Nilla once more: "Of course, you´ll get new extended possibilities by putting major mods together but what I wanted to say is that you´ll also lose things."

This is not a complete list.

Nilla

I made some calculations yesterday that you might find interesting @Discrepancy. It's about iron production and how many workers are involved:

The logistic isn't perfect in my game. I also wanted as many as happy as possible so people don't live inside the black circles which means it's quite a distance between workplace and homes. So I guess, the production can be higher if you make it different.

A smelter makes an average of 75 iron. It's no big difference between the small blacksmith and the blast furnaces on land or on the shore. 10 blacksmiths make 750 iron worth 18= 13 500 trade units.
To produce 750 iron you need 750 coke and 1875 iron ore.
To produce 750 coke you need 177 coal and 1/3 worker.
To produce 177 coal you need 30 timber, 30 lamp oil and 1,3 miner.
To produce 1875 iron ore you need 264 timber, 264 lamp oil and 12 miners
To produce 264+30=294 timber you need 117 logs and 0,6 woodcutter
To produce 117 logs you need 1 forester
To produce 294 lamp oil you need 294 linseed and 37 firewood and 0,5 worker
For flax, linseed, firewood and logs, I estimate you'll need another 0,5 worker
26-27 persons are involved in direct production, it's about 500 profit for each. You will need a number of traders, vendors and labourers to carry all these material around, there are children, students and not producing professions to support. You need to produce building materials to expand, so this is not a very high total profit, especially compared to other easier chains like firewood, lumber, coke, lamp oil, ale.....

With the right value for tools, I hope you can increase the profit by processing iron one more step.


Discrepancy

Quote from: Nilla on August 03, 2019, 07:05:34 AM
I made some calculations yesterday that you might find interesting @Discrepancy. It's about iron production and how many workers are involved:

The logistic isn't perfect in my game. I also wanted as many as happy as possible so people don't live inside the black circles which means it's quite a distance between workplace and homes. So I guess, the production can be higher if you make it different.

A smelter makes an average of 75 iron. It's no big difference between the small blacksmith and the blast furnaces on land or on the shore. 10 blacksmiths make 750 iron worth 18= 13 500 trade units.
To produce 750 iron you need 750 coke and 1875 iron ore.
To produce 750 coke you need 177 coal and 1/3 worker.
To produce 177 coal you need 30 timber, 30 lamp oil and 1,3 miner.
To produce 1875 iron ore you need 264 timber, 264 lamp oil and 12 miners
To produce 264+30=294 timber you need 117 logs and 0,6 woodcutter
To produce 117 logs you need 1 forester
To produce 294 lamp oil you need 294 linseed and 37 firewood and 0,5 worker
For flax, linseed, firewood and logs, I estimate you'll need another 0,5 worker
26-27 persons are involved in direct production, it's about 500 profit for each. You will need a number of traders, vendors and labourers to carry all these material around, there are children, students and not producing professions to support. You need to produce building materials to expand, so this is not a very high total profit, especially compared to other easier chains like firewood, lumber, coke, lamp oil, ale.....

With the right value for tools, I hope you can increase the profit by processing iron one more step.

Thank you @Nilla they are indeed very interesting and helpful.

My own private testing of the next beta version has not been going very well. I have made it too difficult, and successfully managing early game is proving very hard for me. But, it will still be quite a bit more difficult for players as I will still be increasing the cost of producing charcoal/coke, also the cost of smelting and (slightly) increasing the fuel usage by citizens. Though to compensate, the value of many of the industry produced goods will be significantly increased, in some cases more than 500%. So yes higher profits will be attained from smelting and making tools. This will also make it very expensive to buy these items, as the products you list have not been increased in value, but some have been decreased (apart from ale).

I was going to expand the gold part of the mod with the activation of the placer mines and a few other buildings which have been sitting dormant, but will leave this to the following update as their additions are not helping me get the right balance for the mod.

If I can get a good balance, I will hopefully release v.04 in the next day or so.

Nilla

I´m looking forward to trying the next version. :)