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Food markets and flags

Started by Kyana, October 15, 2018, 06:41:17 AM

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Kyana

So, let's talk about it here :P

The food markets with flag limits for each foodtype (protein, grain, fruit, veggie) get each type of food for a balanced diet. However, they get filled up with flour and other non-edibles which caused stuff like grain to be missing in their diet (flour inedible), so i need a baker in each area with a market like this to keep getting edible grains in it and take the inedible grains out. Same with vegetables and the veggie cleaner.. Not really what i want in my industry and foresting clusters.

The edibles food market stores everything nearby.. Doesnt care about foodtypes so it doesnt give a balanced diet.

The special food stands.. The bannies only take food from 1 market. So they will only have one foodtype in their house. No balanced diet.


Kyana

So, maybe don't have inedible food at all? And flag it as misc? Or make an inedible flag and put it all there + an inedible market stand?

RedKetchup

Quote from: Kyana on October 15, 2018, 06:41:17 AM

The edibles food market stores everything nearby.. Doesnt care about foodtypes so it doesnt give a balanced.


oh yes they can do !!!!

enable to store : only edible
market distribution: grain 24%, vegts 25%, fruits 25%, proteins 25%.

and you have a good market. no non-edible allowed, empty space can't be filled by other flags.
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purringcat

Quote from: RedKetchup on October 15, 2018, 06:51:16 AM
Quote from: Kyana on October 15, 2018, 06:41:17 AM

The edibles food market stores everything nearby.. Doesnt care about foodtypes so it doesnt give a balanced.


oh yes they can do !!!!

enable to store : only edible
market distribution: grain 24%, vegts 25%, fruits 25%, proteins 25%.

and you have a good market. no non-edible allowed, empty space can't be filled by other flags.

So are there markets with those specs?    And a nice big range that covers a large area?     My markets are almost completely filled with non-edible stuff.   

Tom Sawyer

If even someone from Holland says tulips are no food then you can be sure. ;D

My question to this topic: Does this market setup work in game with normal distribution of all food types but only edible resources allowed to store? Sounds like the best solution but what happens if the vendor tries to store grain without food flag? Can't store bug which we know from other cases or they just don't try this?

RedKetchup

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2018, 07:15:37 AM
My question to this topic: Does this market setup work in game with normal distribution of all food types but only edible resources allowed to store? Sounds like the best solution but what happens if the vendor tries to store grain without food flag? Can't store bug which we know from other cases or they just don't try this?

they go with what they are allowed to store, and then they check their %. they cannot go try to pickup flour unless flour has edible.
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RedKetchup

Quote from: purringcat on October 15, 2018, 07:03:52 AM
So are there markets with those specs?    And a nice big range that covers a large area?     My markets are almost completely filled with non-edible stuff.

there are certainly some....

in RKEC 1.2 my grocery stores (corner and straight) will have this. i made the change today (they have in 1.11 all other 4 flags allowing non-edible grain for example)
but in my mod also, my flour is edible + grain ^^
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embx61

Here the link where some of the market problems were discussed and give a good indication why some markets are coded in a certain way.
It most had to do with the non edible part of flour.
Bannies took it home to eat as it was flagged edible so it was hurting the bakery chain so some asked it to be made non edible but this resulted in some markets/storage issues.

As I said in the other thread lots of stuff we did not know at the time it had downsides too and discovered those over time.
Now many want the flour to be edible again but then some going to argue it will hurt the bakery chain because bannies will take some home to eat and we are back at how it all started in the first place.  :)

http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1005.msg18786#msg18786
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

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Tom Sawyer

Yes, for this edible/inedible flour discussion there is no clear yes or no. Both ways have there disadvantages.

To keep inedible grains and so on away from markets would be really nice because I would like to use these hidden flags to handle things like flax etc. In this case as (inedible) vegetable. I tried the mentioned setup right now but unfortunately it does not work. Vendors try to get also inedible vegetables but run into this bug because they can't store it. Look at the screen.. The same would happen with inedible flour.

Kyana

#9
Embx: then let them produce more flour..
But also i have the "vegetable" crop, which is inedible.
And stuff for sugar refinery.

RK what market is this i have been looking forever to find one like that, only edibles and every food type equally in it without inedibles and no problems with vendors trying to get inedibles to it anyway.

Because they pick up grains veggie protein and fruit, some edible some not because it has 2 flags and some dont have 2 flags like inedible flour (grain). Then they try get grain to the market (flour) but then they find out its not edible so they can't store it in the market.

And no we don't eat tullips in holland... only for decoration. Never said you can't eat it but never heard of such a thing. + the cropfields produce way less tullips and violets then from other seeds, so its hard for my perfumery industry.

Tom, flax is textile not vegetable

The RKEC, does it have a food market only? I dont want to have other items in it. And can i download it seperate? I use MM8 and i want tot keep the mods in it :P probably cant because of the flags in mm8...

What i really want to keep is the mods from KID and RK

brads3

remember inedible also means the bannies can not eat it at all.say a merchant brings you flour and you are starving.you buy the flour ,but still starve. if all food was inedible until it is processed,the poor bannies would starve in the beginning of games.that is the main problem with the inedible idea.

    i have not seen a market have issues with storing inedible foods. there are 3 that i have depending on mod order. maple sap,vegetables,flour.it maybe more than that if you count sugar. i have only seen 3 markets get sruck in loops. KID's colonial provision store,this 1 was fixed.the old emporium and the 1.06 original DS cart mods.these 2 are the exceptions that may have some inedible issues.all other 1.06 market mods work.

        markets do have an order to how they are stocked.if the market was coded meat 1st and venison was near by or fish,it could look like it filled up on meat.the vendor might take longer to locate the grain and fruit. if it was coded to load grain,fruit,veggy,and then meat and was near a mill,it would load flour before the others.since normally the deer would be way out in a forest,it will look like he isn't stocking venison.

        EB mentions issues that came up after modding began. 1 of those is the unit measure of food. bannies eat roughly 100 untis a year. nobody has figured what a unit is.is it by weight or volume,etc?  CC started using a trade value with processed foods.most mods follow that idea. a few mods increase outputs in processing.some butchers will take 1 unti of deer and give out several roasts or units of sausages,etc. normally,you get less food from processing items. i think this is wrong.

         if you take a unit of flour and add a unit of fruit,you have 2 units.rather it be by volume or weight.in the game we have 1 unit of pie.if i did this in my kitchen,the pie would be bigger than the starting unit of fruit or flour.if however,i cut up a 100# deer,i would still have 100# of meat.so yes there is a drawback to the idea.

       in the game, the problem is we can't increase the value of the pie to the bannies.we can tag it grain or fruit not both. so by rights,we should increase the outputs.trade values of processed foods should still increase to compensate for the work time involved.   

embx61

The weight unit of resources is only for storage purposes.
1 apple in the game can mean 1 apple or 1 basket of apples.

Markets not have issues with Non Edible foods in itself.
But players want the markets to store only Edible foods and the four categories equally spread out and i don't think this is possible.
My Farm stand had it setup so all four food groups were equally spread out but this meant also Non Edible got stored and some "complained" about that.

So I changed the market segment in the code to Edible so no Non Edible got stored anymore but the downside is that the four food groups are not coded in at all and so a market can fill up with for example only Venison with no more room for other foods till the Bannies take some out and hopefully not another vendor is closest by to drop another load of Venison in it. Can't have it both so the modder have to make a choice which way to go. I think for players the storage issues are more important then having flour Non Edible so I have seen requests to make flour, and maybe others, just Edible again.

Yes the Non Edible at the start of the game was briefly discussed to make the game a bit harder but it makes the start maybe too hard so the idea went away.

We just have to face reality that the Banished code is not up to par with what many modders/players like to add to it.
Sure, lots of stuff like housing/decoration/etc works mostly out of the box, but stuff like Edible/Non Edible Storage issues/What Merchants will bring/Some Path Issues, the just 20 flags(Can you imagine if we not have gotten the extra 10 flags?) are just things we cannot get around without having the C++ Source Code or Luke is willing to implement it which is not gonna happen as he is busy with his new creation and i not see him put the source code into the public domain.
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

RedKetchup

Quote from: embx61 on October 15, 2018, 07:38:10 AM
Here the link where some of the market problems were discussed and give a good indication why some markets are coded in a certain way.
It most had to do with the non edible part of flour.
Bannies took it home to eat as it was flagged edible so it was hurting the bakery chain so some asked it to be made non edible but this resulted in some markets/storage issues.

As I said in the other thread lots of stuff we did not know at the time it had downsides too and discovered those over time.
Now many want the flour to be edible again but then some going to argue it will hurt the bakery chain because bannies will take some home to eat and we are back at how it all started in the first place.  :)

http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1005.msg18786#msg18786
.


as i read back the old discussion, Kralyerg said : market look for grain, so vendor pickup flour, it arrive at market : no! that is not edible, idiot! and then, the vendor go back. since he has alzimer.... he pickup back the flour and go to market again.

lol


so i am wondering now what if we try :
storage : grain | vegetable | fruit | protein
and market distribution : Edible = 0.99

??

Edit : Oh ! it will bug with Water. water it has edible only, no diet.
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RedKetchup

so sorry @Kyana . there is no perfect world in Banished Lands.
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embx61

Indeed Red.

That is why I changed the Farm Stand as some wanted it so no Non Edibles where stored but with the issue it is possible a market get filled with just 1 food(group) as I deleted the four food groups in the Market segment and replaced it with just Edible.

The best is either get rid if Non Edible foods all together or allow Non Edibles to be stored in Markets beside Edible so at least the four food groups can be set at 25% each.
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]