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Red's new Work In Progress thread

Started by RedKetchup, November 19, 2017, 06:43:46 PM

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RedKetchup

#990
you cant prioritize things in same flags. it is grains or it is not grains :)

wheat is a grain, corn is a grain, sorghum is a grain,  flour is a grain thats all.
it will try to make 50-50 everything.

in game picture :) 2x2 tiles as vanilla cart
20' tiles radius is enough ?
1 vendor by default, can up at 2 ?

i need to sort out my toolbars, it is starting to fill up that quick in that toolbar lol
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Nilla

That's a sweet looking chart! :) It's small, so a small radius is good, also a maximum of 2 vendors. Fits all.

I started a discussion in my blog about how to handle flour. There hasn't been much response, maybe not so many read my often too long blogs, so I will repeat it hear. It looks like @RedKetchup also want more of you to say your opinion. The background is that flour is inedible in this mod. As far as I have seen it, all grain is eatable. This is different in different mods. There are some where grain and flour is inedible, others where both are eatable.

In this mod, flour is not stored in the smaller market place. It only contains costumer's goods, so that might be logical. The small grocery stores however, can contain flour. Flour is special, you want it close to bakers, it's the only place you need it and want it. Now it's spread all over the map to every small store. I have tried to locate bakers a bit spread but that doesn't work well either, I guess I can afford too few vendors to fill the stores fast enough for both the people and the bakery. I suggest two options to make it work better: (maybe some of you see more possibilities)

1. Make flour eatable. Let it spread to all small, medium and big markets. Let the people bake their bread and cook their pancakes. It's easy to make an overproduction.
2. Let it stay inedible. Take it away from the small markets. It's better to lacate mills and bakeries together and not letting the flour spread all over the place. Maybe it's even possible to make a special chart that only holds inedible grain.

I prefer option 1. ;)


RedKetchup

personally i am ok with option 1 too
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brads3

i agree with you both. all flour should be edible. players who want it in-edible can use the add-on mods.
    the carts should help the issue of items being stored everywhere. i don't think we can totally solve this but may be able to help the bannies.there are times scattering items is useful. laborers in forests drop food,tools,firewood,etc that the bannies need.helps the forest workers be more productive since they don't have to travel to find things they need.same thing works for a dock area or mining town.i try to scatter laborers to use this to my advantage.
    the issue of everything being stored all over the map RED has worked on.fertilizer is more controlled now. it isn't stored everywhere and has a more specific place.markets are better at bringing needed items instead of everything.
          we need more understanding of the coding for markets and barns. each vendor reads though the markets coding and decides what to bring in. he also can decide to remove items and take them back to storage or another market. the more we understand how and why he "thinks" the way he does, the more control we players will have. same applies to how and when labores choose what item in which barn. theory is the closet barn.once that barn has a certain amount of item A,they will go store in a different barn. the 1st barn won't be completely full.a food barn won't fill with just chickens.barns have an assortment of goods.
       i think LUKE has this "thinking" coded more complex than we realize.there are hidden mysteries.

oldgraywolf

I may not be much help, being relatively new to the game but I'd go with the edible grain/flour solution as well. It should make it easier to store and find when needed. I also like the single cart for the "single" items. I like having the flexibility of only using what I might need or want at the time.
It still amazes me when I see the Bannies taking items from one storage to another or clearing out an area of stone when stone is needed for the foundation of the building where the area is being cleared.  :o
Its still a great game in concept but some of these little problems make you scratch your head sometimes.
I'm waiting for you next update Red, and I'll download and try this mod, I've been reading and watching up to this point. I like your designs and concepts, and it looks like a different play style for me to enjoy.
I never lose. I either win or I learn.

Denis de la Rive

I am convinced that the scattering of goods in different locations is hard coded to avoid disasters being village killers. A fire or worse won't destroy every single unit of an item. This is very important in small villages or those that are starting. You have to remember the game is coded without mod in mind, so there is a logic to this.

As for carts, I think the single good version is the best, it could be match with a storage version to help mitigate some of the storage locations problems. On this subject I would like to remind you that the warehouse can solve some of these problems too, bringing the goods in and then have them sent back out can change where they are stored, and compensate for concentrations caused by building sequences.

I've been gone for a few month, and just looked at the mod, I understand its a beta, but I think some features could be changed to make it an easier mod to play with. I realize many things have been discussed, but I feel certain building requirements may make it too difficult to get what are essential features like trading and health care. Having to build several production chains can simply stop development of a village.

For example trading, it is usually useful as a source of more advanced resources, before one can build production chains. You are also changing how fast you get seeds and animals. Finally it can save you from a death spiral of starvation.

I could say the same for heath care, which has an impact of growth by making accepting nomads far more dangerous. I like the idea that things like the barber are more difficult to get, it makes for great challenges, something Banished needs. Having the hospital require produced resources is a dangerous choice that will simply stop growth, and may even kill a village when everybody dies of old age.

There are other places where this is also something to think about.

There are some easy ways to fix this, creating a basic building that handles these functions, this would create 3 levels of health care, and two for trading. Again limits can be placed on those that are easier to build so you want the better ones. The camp mods might work, but they are a bit of specific theme that may not appeal to everyone.

One thing I do want to say is that I think a mod should not force players to rely on using other mods to fill a basic function. :)

Nilla: can you PM me a link to your blog, I'm interested, but don't have time to look for it. :)

Mon ami, J'aime vraiment ce que tu fais, c'est juste des idées pour faire un meilleur mod.

Nilla

I disagree with you @Denis de la Rive. I like that, you need to start the production of some "advanced" building material early. It's also no way too hard to produce a few pieces of glass to be able to build a trading port and a doctor early. Just because you need a few glass or a few lumber doesn't mean, that you need a constant production of these materials. You need to micromanage. But I always micromanage at the beginning, a little more makes the gamer rather interesting. I don't think this is too hard for the average player. I see no risk for the "disasters" you mention.

One thing to you @RedKetchup; have you thought of the school? It would be nice if you could add the NMT school to the next version of this mod.

RedKetchup

#997
Quote from: Nilla on March 17, 2018, 01:16:25 PM

One thing to you @RedKetchup; have you thought of the school? It would be nice if you could add the NMT school to the next version of this mod.

i still hope to have time to check if i can easily transfert the NMT20 school to this....



meanwhile i was working on the carts idea of Brads....

i did 13 carts, for 13 flags. they all have the new cart look, but every cart has something inside that help define their role. they have a personalized sign behind, and they have personalized resources inside the carts.

i ve got to modify the toolbars though, now when you will open the storage toolbar, you will get 3 options. barns, markets, and carts. The other icons which were hanging already there are still at same place.
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RedKetchup

Quote from: RedKetchup on March 18, 2018, 11:46:41 AM
Quote from: Nilla on March 17, 2018, 01:16:25 PM

One thing to you @RedKetchup; have you thought of the school? It would be nice if you could add the NMT school to the next version of this mod.

i still hope to have time to check if i can easily transfert the NMT20 school to this....


unfortunatly, i wont be able to just move it, i will need to redo. but i promise, it is the next thing i ll do this week, and who knows, maybe i can launch beta 12 next weekend :)
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brads3

what about the 2 and 3 story hostels? any thought on pottery and using it to store food like a cannery?

RedKetchup

Quote from: brads3 on March 18, 2018, 12:26:26 PM
what about the 2 and 3 story hostels? any thought on pottery and using it to store food like a cannery?

hostels will be done at some point.... not sure on cannery... need more thoughts on this
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galensgranny

I agree with Denis that it is better for the trading post not to need building materials that require additional buildings and production, such as it needing copper.  I think it needs iron as well, so one already has to make a smelter to turn iron ore into iron, taking another employee.  I like to start trading early on and with limited employees, one really can't do that with the extra production chains.

I also think the hospital should not require much extra, since sometimes one wants to accept nomads as soon as possible.

Nilla

You don't need a smelter to produce a few iron and copper @galensgranny. The blacksmith may do it as well. It's not quite as efficient as a smelter. But the few you need for a trading port doesn't matter much, if 3 or 2 ore are needed for each iron/copper.

As I said at the beginning; you don't need so much of these products, that you need to employ these sites all the time. So there's absolutely no problem to produce the material. Don't you people micromanage at the beginning of a game? Do you really build a site and let someone work there all the time right from the start? I don't. In a vanilla game one person switch between woodcutter, blacksmith, tailor and maybe something else at the beginning. Here there will be some more sites; I find that rather interesting than hard.

I know there are mods, that gives you nomads easier, but normally you'll need a townhall, a tradingport and a big market to get some nomads (or at least the footprint of these later 2) and the nomads don't arrive immediately, so there is much time to produce what you need for a doctor/dentist/barber of your choice after the townhall is done.

Of cause, these are only my opinions based on the tests I made from the latest versions of this mod. If people find it difficult to produce more than the 3 "basic materials", you might need to think this over @RedKetchup . But how is it @galensgranny and @Denis de la Rive; have you tested this mod? Did you really have these difficulties? Did your settlement suffer from starvation because you couldn't build a trading port fast enough or a decease after taking nomads but without a possibility to build a hospital?

estherhb

I have to admit that I don't use some of RK's re-designed buildings that require additional construction materials because I have other options (aka mods) without those requirements. I don't want to have to set up a glass production chain that I'm not really ready to use.

RedKetchup

#1004
i am ok with personal changes or personal way to play :)
i cannot please everyone :P


compiling a last time and .zip'ing it :)

so ...

Beta 11 available !!!!!

Added :
ColorfulLittleHouse : (Entirely as it was in 2.2 version)
ColorfulLittleFence (New) : 10 new colored wood fences which colors will match ColorfulLittleHouse roofs. available in ghosted and non-ghosted version
White Fence set : (Entirely as it was in 1.0 version)
Brick Roads (New) : 3 New kind of roads that will ask 1 brick per tile. This is an alternative when you dont have alot of stones.
Seedlings : back from Decorative Item Pack, but not as a cheated trade resource though. Will cost fertilizer and water to produce in greenhouses.
3 kind of Decorative Trees (New) : 3 models of Japanese Cheery Trees in 3 colors, Japanese Cedar in 3 models, Maple Trees in 3 colors. cost 1 seedlings to build
13 Specialized Carts (New) which will act as a very mini market with 1 unique storage flag each. you can assign 1-2 vendor to those and can hold 1500 weight. 20 tiles radius.
made various little tweaks in numbers in many little things ^^


Enjoy !!
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