Author Topic: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental  (Read 2265 times)

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Offline Maldrick

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #15 on: January 15, 2018, 04:45:05 PM »
Seems pretty consistent with late-colonial markets in north american cities.  Rural markets would be a lot more rustic.  Probably a bit later industrial era, given the glass and iron work.  Strikes me as something one might find in Victorian England, really, but someone more familiar with that can correct me.  Was all based on the same influences at the time, regardless, so there's bound to be crossover.

Attached are some pics of markets from around that time.  I think there were quite a few like this in New York but most are gone now...Lots of the original buildings were replaced during the city's population boom of the late 19th and early 20th century and it really hasn't stopped to this day.  Duane Reed pharmacies, Starbucks, and Gap stores require newer buildings it seems. :P  Whole city has become one of those stores, unfortunately, but I digress.  One that has been preserved is Fulton Fish Market in lower manhattan, which are the first two pics.  Was built in the 1820s.

The other pics are of Charleston City Market in Charleston, South Carolina.  First one is of the main entrance...The stalls extend back towards the harbor for several blocks and the second pic is the rear building.  It was built around 1800 and was primarily a meat market.

I think so much of the early urban architecture was overdone a bit because so many countries were planting flags here and made a point of doing it.  To establish a foothold, project the mother country's culture, and to have a bit of civilization in contrast to the continent of frontier.  There are the simplest of buildings in New Orleans that are built like monuments while the whole city is surrounded by swamps and wildlife that would eat people if given the chance.

One thing is for certain, these buildings are magnificent.  If there are concerns that they are too grand for a fish market, hopefully @Discrepancy will press on after this and continue with this theme with many more different things to go with them. :D  Can see this going very well with his Blast Furnace, Rowhouses, and Stone Bridge as well as the dock set.
"We are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
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Online elemental

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #16 on: January 15, 2018, 05:14:31 PM »
Yes, it does look quite modern and fancy. But you have to remember that people in industry and commerce sometimes make a lot of money, and people with money sometimes like to show off. It's as true today as it was back then.

Discrepancy's fishmonger is actually based on a real building - Billingsgate Fish Market in London. It does look more modern than most of the other buildings we have in Banished, but again what you are looking at is the final upgraded version - or at least a work-in-progress of that final upgraded building. There will be less impressive fishmongers, too. This is only one in the set.

A Banished game can run for over a hundred years so having the option to build more modern buildings in the later game adds a bit more depth and realism to gameplay overall. I don't know if DS is planning to do other buildings in this style, but anything is possible.  :)

Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #17 on: January 15, 2018, 05:56:14 PM »
In the creation of the building I posted earlier I have taken inspiration (albeit with a bit of artistic licence) from the old Billingsgate Market in the City of London. (http://www.victorianlondon.org/markets/billingsgate.htm | https://baldwinhamey.wordpress.com/2012/12/11/old-billingsgate-market/)

It is late architecture, and fairly large. The set will be modular, with the main part the central building which can be a market or fishmonger (fish sorting) it has a footprint of 10x12 (10x10+roadtiles on frontages).
The towers that will go to the sides are 4x5 (4x4+road), 4x6 (4x5+road) and 5x5 (5x4+road) in sizes.

The building will be for this set ;) it might seem a bit grand and fancy, but by the time I'm finished with it I'm sure it will look like a fish market/monger.

I can always make more buildings, and I do plan on adding some more of these more advanced, later high production buildings. I've made plenty of small things with DSSV and all the other assorted mods.

Ideally I see this mod as giving the player the chance to make a large town with a large fishing production to utilize the set of buildings to create not just a varied diet (by the processed food options) but also a supply that can be used as major trade.


The Fishmongers will work randomly, you will not be able to choose the production of a single fish.
But for the code to work properly I must assign a cost to produce against each fish variety made:

3/3 Bass [cost 3 Fish] - value 3 each
2/2 Bream [2 Fish] - value 2
3/4 Carp [3 Fish] - value 1
3/3 Cod [3 Fish] - value 3
2/3 Eel [2 Fish] - value 1
2/3 Mullet [2 Fish] - value 1
3/3 Perch [3 Fish] - value 3
2/2 Pike [2 Fish] - value 1
3/4 Salmon [3 Fish] - value 2
2/2 Tench [2 Fish] - value 1
5/6 Trout [5 Fish] - value 1

To complete the full round it will cost 30 Fish,
Uneducated workers will not make an increase in food and return 30 different fish to storage. But would have made a trade profit of 23 (total value of 53 minus the 30 fish)

Educated workers will return to storage 35 different fish, an increase in 5 food. A trade profit of 29 (59-30).

My thoughts on above are to actually reverse it a bit so the educated Fishmonger will find extra valuable fish instead, which will kick up their trade profit over the uneducated worker.

Along with the fish above, there will also be the sorting of Mollusc into Clams, Mussels and Snails.


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #18 on: January 15, 2018, 06:54:17 PM »
Ah, Billingsgate Fish Market in London. Thank you for clarification. You should give this info somewhere in description then. To know about the original makes it even more interesting for people and understandable in consideration of the use in game. To create such originals for Banished is a really nice thing and I also like to do it this way. So with the German blast furnace I made a direct hit but with this British one I failed miserably.^^ Keep it up. I will try it in game even with an inventory stuffed with fishes. ;D


Offline triangle

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nice
« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2018, 02:26:06 AM »
The fish monger model is looking extremely well done, and now I am curious what that buildings trinangle/polygon count is..

what is the maximum suggested statistics even for one building placed?

so one wooden house that is maybe 500 triangles tops and let's say you have 1000 houses would that be about the same as having 1 fishmonger? cuz that may be too much detail for one building in a game you can't really zoom in to admire.

If it was like farming simulator and you could walk around first person and turn on switches or flush the toilets fine... please tell me that there isn't light switches and toilets in there to flush.  ^^

still is very impressive work though and very well textured!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 02:39:10 AM by triangle »

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2018, 02:54:01 AM »
CC buildings have alot more, and specially my buildings have alot more too. it is hard to do something with 500, almost nothing.
but i understand you can put 5,000 houses on the map, but how many of a such building ? 1 or 2 per map ?
5000X500 = 2,500,000 poly. 1 or 2 buildings of 5,000 ? 5000-10,000 it is really not bad at the end
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Offline taniu

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #21 on: January 16, 2018, 03:19:50 AM »
@Discrepancy :D Buildings and the idea of fishing trade is great, but what about the players who play on smaller maps, it seems to me that such a large building will occupy a large area and maybe a ship by the shore and the pier?Regards

Offline Maldrick

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2018, 04:01:03 AM »
For whatever it's worth, I think they're great at this size.  We have tons of small and tiny buildings to play with, which I do regularly and love them.  But it gets to be a challenge finding grand buildings of some size at times.  These are beautiful and I'm excited to see where this goes and playing with it.  Hope to see more things like it.

Plus, I just love victorian era archetecture.  The city I live in was largely built during that time and has a similar style but more rustic.  There's just something about the "industrial beauty" of buildings from that period that I'm drawn to.  One of the main reasons I'm an Assassin's Creed fan is getting to have a close look at the cities they recreate in those games.  The last title before the current one was set in 1850's London and I was just lost in it.  Took forever to play through the story because I was constantly getting sidetracked just climbing around looking at buildings from top to bottom and inside.  Was the same in the one before that was set in Paris about 40 years earlier, too.  Both are beautifully done.

Actually, at some point I'm going to load it up and see if this market is in the game.  It was mentioned in dialogue at one point, I just didn't make the connection with this and not sure if it is or not as it's been a couple years.

@Discrepancy I'm good for a copy of Assassin's Creed: Syndicate if you need any further inspiration when you are done with this one. :D
"We are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
― Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Offline Nilla

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2018, 05:55:53 AM »
For whatever it's worth, I think they're great at this size.  We have tons of small and tiny buildings to play with, which I do regularly and love them.  But it gets to be a challenge finding grand buildings of some size at times.  These are beautiful and I'm excited to see where this goes and playing with it.  Hope to see more things like it.


Agree!


Offline Hawk

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #24 on: January 16, 2018, 06:13:28 AM »
CC buildings have alot more, and specially my buildings have alot more too. it is hard to do something with 500, almost nothing.
but i understand you can put 5,000 houses on the map, but how many of a such building ? 1 or 2 per map ?
5000X500 = 2,500,000 poly. 1 or 2 buildings of 5,000 ? 5000-10,000 it is really not bad at the end

Way back when I was doing 3D Modeling for some train simulators, most of us modellers would make efforts to delete all unseen ploys. I don't know about Blender, but the 2 modeling programs I used (Train Sim Modeler & 3D Canvas) would add polys that would never be seen, adding to the poly count unnecessarily.
SketchUp was especially bad about that, but I never used it.

It took a little time to figure out the best way to do that, but once we got the hang of it, it was pretty easy.

With the train simulators it was especially important because most of the modeling detail went into the trains and not the scenery, although the scenery was done in great detail too, the player would only see it for a short time when passing.
If the scenery got too intense in detail it would cause the simulator to run like a slide show, even on the best of computers.
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Offline Discrepancy

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #25 on: January 16, 2018, 03:37:36 PM »
The fish monger model is looking extremely well done, and now I am curious what that buildings trinangle/polygon count is..

what is the maximum suggested statistics even for one building placed?

so one wooden house that is maybe 500 triangles tops and let's say you have 1000 houses would that be about the same as having 1 fishmonger? cuz that may be too much detail for one building in a game you can't really zoom in to admire.

If it was like farming simulator and you could walk around first person and turn on switches or flush the toilets fine... please tell me that there isn't light switches and toilets in there to flush.  ^^

still is very impressive work though and very well textured!

Right now it is at about 3000, it still need to do adjustments and rebuild parts as it was only a quick put together, so 500+ of those will be deleted as I properly do the interior and fix some other parts. I will then likely add more so it will be possibly about the same when I'm done.
RedKetchup is right, you aren't going top place many of these buildings on a map. And even if you did I think the building would still have less polys than the combined amount of trees that would fit on the same footprint.

The building sits high and is large, so the details are needed but I don't think any of the details I've done so far are too much, or anything that you wouldn't see in game.


Also in contrast have you seen how high the poly count is in the Apiary example.... my building still isn't that high.

Offline triangle

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nicely done.
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2018, 08:31:40 AM »
only 3000? I was expecting it to be much higher it is just highly detailed because of very well done texturing then.. nice!

Offline Maldrick

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #27 on: January 18, 2018, 12:34:29 AM »
CC buildings have alot more, and specially my buildings have alot more too.

I wondered about that.  Have never run into it with your stuff, but CC for sure.

Built a pretty beefy PC last year...Have had zero lag with Banished and I often play with 80-100 mods loaded.  Tried turning all the settings up to max and same thing.  Everything has been smooth, although I haven't built anything really big since I turned them up.  But with CC at about 300 population with appropriate buildings it becomes a slide show.
"We are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.
― Ezio Auditore da Firenze

Offline josito

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2018, 03:49:53 PM »
WOw! That architecture is stunning!

Offline Camillechan

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Re: Fishmongers - a work in progress by Discrepancy & elemental
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2018, 09:10:15 PM »
I saw earlier that you all were looking for fish recipes, I found a list of medieval/17th-century recipes:

http://www.godecookery.com/allrec/allrec05.htm

There are an assortment of roasts, pies and tarts. Personally for luxury items, I think caviar and roe would be nice.