Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09-10-11

[Nilla]

@Nilla
But I don't think that a fence on the canal is really necessary. You're not building a town in Australia, right? (Aussies are crazy with their health and safety regs). Think of it like Amsterdam where they treat you as an adult...Is your bike wet? Well, you're on the wrong side of the canal mate.

I´m afraid we are more like the Aussies in these matters here in Sweden. When I think about it and see the result; a lot of talking, no fence, I´m pretty sure this is Sweden. The children playing at the canal all have life jackets and helmets in bright colors with sufficent reflectors. The fact, that the fence isn´t built, shows that a government authority was involved. The important thing for them, is to have a nice piece of paper with the right headlines, that says: "We have a canal. There´s a risk, that someone falls into it. To prevent this, we can build a fence. If someone should fall in it despite of this, we can put up life savers." No inspector is interested in looking at the reality; if a fence is built or not. Believe me, I have had very similar experince in my work. (Perhaps I must tell, to save the reputation of Swedish authorities, that local authorities are often more "down on earth")

I´ll show you some pictures from yesterday´s playing.

First picture

The doctor, who works at the barber shop doesn´t want any " dirty contagious people" in his clean shop. But all the same, he seems to be skilled. We had Typhus in this area, some people got sick, but no one died. No one visited the clinic, so this barber confirmed his good reputation. I don´t know; fresh air and a fresh haircut may do the trick!

Second picture

Oh no!!! 

Third picture

Good luck, bad luck, I don't know. Only 3 buildings were destroyed; a ground floor house, a fisher dock and a trading port with a lot of goods, but it killed maybe 40 people, many of them children. 

First I couldn't understand how this could be possible. How can a tornado, that only touched the edge of the settlement, kill so many people? I realized, most of them must have been idlers at the trading port. Children idle a lot, and I think this explains why so many of the dead were children.

Fourth picture

The Town. I didn't want to build any cemeteries but after I've built this lovely cathedral, I found one belonged there. But I didn't plan to fill it in one strike. 

Fifth picture

I've solved the "dung issue" of the canal dock, at least temporarily. It was almost "dung free" but the amount starts to increase again.

First I tried to put vendors in those charts for materials I had, but not much happened. They were already quite well filled with fertilizer, clay and sand. But when I built this new chart (with a close greenhouse) the vendor went to the dock and got 400 fertilizer in one strike!  It will last for one greenhouse for some time. I told you; I like to find solutions to small (and big) problems.

[Denis de la Rive]

When I asked about the fisherman I was considering a specialized storage, not a vendor staffed structure like a cart. I will have to reorganize my Banished files to use RK Ed if we are going to create documentation. 

Like I suspected for ghost technical issues, as for MM, it an older file, and includes CC, who if I remember are built on road squares, I could be wrong. I would ask, what is more important, ghost that cost something, or more nice buildings? RK Ed is like banished, time is the most important factor, time for graphics, time for code, time for questions, time for documentation, and time for raiding, (or hockey).

I can't see how to make a fence without a ghost, its road, or canal side, you could wait for a tornado, and move everything one square! 

I was thinking about dung, its custom 7, (unless Red changed that), like the other RK Ed items, it might be worth looking at where this flag appears in all the storage structures. If you change that, it could control better where it is stored, if you use vanilla, you get some, if you use RK Ed you can control where it gets stored. I know you are testing carts, but you have found something that needs to be considered.

I think the barber is doing exactly what he should, historically it the barber-surgeon, which is exactly why Red created him as a health feature, it adds some flavour to the building, I like it very much.

The problem with tornadoes is that the villagers don't try to escape, they continue to as normal. I don't know why Luke did not program for this, it might have been too difficult to create the correct lines of code.

I must question your plan not create any graveyards in your village, I have seen it have a large impact on happiness, and when many people die the survivors can remain at 1 or less until they die. You may find that the villagers will idle a lot more now that they can't morn properly. In your village I would consider looking at making happiness more important, you may have a drastic drop in production fro all the villagers after such a loss. I know its hard to understand happiness, but is is part of how the villagers are programmed, and so you must also try to manage it. Strangely I feel sorry for your people.

With the loss of so many children do you think your future looks bleak? You may have a drastic drop in population if your survivors are not young. Are you considering accepting nomads, this would really change you goal of having an educated population.

I do think that simply efficient can be beautiful, decoration are important, buy as you say sometimes beautiful builds are enough. 

If I can agree with Red as to what documentation we can create, I will certainly want your help, it could by as simple as in game pictures, tricks and advice, or comments on what I have created. I am a native english speaker so I can easily write what will be needed, and I was the first person who worked on the wiki for CC, so I know what players will need. Someone has already started to comment on that in a post in the other conversation about RK Ed.

If anyone has difficulty understanding what I write please tell me, I have a little experience with translation, and teaching english as second language so I can try to simplify my comments.

This is a long post, so I will not discuss balance formulas today, and I need to think about what I want to write to Red. 

[RedKetchup]

when there is a tornado, you need to stop time and think quick. you need to look where is and where it is going. and then cancel all jobs in the possible paths the tornado can take and send all people to go cut trees/everything in the complete opposite direction. kids will also mostly kinda follow, they love to see events and they will go near the new jobs and watch.

[Denis de la Rive]

Wonderful trick. 

[Nilla]

When I asked about the fisherman I was considering a specialized storage, not a vendor staffed structure like a cart.

Of cause, better than specialized markets with vendor, but I'm not so fond of these either. Have you looked into the home of the closest fisherman where you use such a store? Unless a market is very close (inside a market circle isn't enough) I guess it's fish.

I was thinking about dung, its custom 7, (unless Red changed that), like the other RK Ed items, it might be worth looking at where this flag appears in all the storage structures. If you change that, it could control better where it is stored, if you use vanilla, you get some, if you use RK Ed you can control where it gets stored. I know you are testing carts, but you have found something that needs to be considered.

The custom number I don't know, but it counts as material together with sand and clay, stored on stockpiles and also unfortunately on the dock storage of the canal. But as Red says, since each material can't be stored separate, these problems will always have to be dealt with. And in this case; producing glass and bricks together with the fodder-fertilizer-greenhouse chain on several places needs a lot of "dealing"

I think the barber is doing exactly what he should, historically it the barber-surgeon, which is exactly why Red created him as a health feature, it adds some flavour to the building, I like it very much.

Me, too!

I must question your plan not create any graveyards in your village, I have seen it have a large impact on happiness, and when many people die the survivors can remain at 1 or less until they die. You may find that the villagers will idle a lot more now that they can't morn properly. In your village I would consider looking at making happiness more important, you may have a drastic drop in production fro all the villagers after such a loss. I know its hard to understand happiness, but is is part of how the villagers are programmed, and so you must also try to manage it. Strangely I feel sorry for your people. .

Did you believe I didn't have any thoughts about this? But maybe you're right, I do have some kind of aversion against graveyards: Ugly, need space and stone. I only build them, when they do have a big impact: In a real time aging game. If I don't build any new houses and expect, that there will be a lot of adult children living at home. Or maybe like here; when it looks like a graveyard belongs on that spot.

In a game like this, where i try to expand as fast as I can, there will be no big loss on happiness. There will be some unhappy old people, who have lost a wife or husband of old age, but they are also old and will not live long. Every young person can move out early, so there will not be many of them, who lose a parent because of old age, before they can move out. There will be a few unhappy children, who lose a parent by accident, but since they usually move out early, I hope they can recover at least some of their happiness. Besides, so far I had no miners and no stonecutter and accidental deaths are rare. I'm expanding with many mines at the moment, so maybe I should overthink the graveyard thing. Good that you reminded me!

With the loss of so many children do you think your future looks bleak? You may have a drastic drop in population if your survivors are not young. Are you considering accepting nomads, this would really change you goal of having an educated population..

No!
No!

If I can agree with Red as to what documentation we can create, I will certainly want your help, it could by as simple as in game pictures, tricks and advice, or comments on what I have created. I am a native English speaker so I can easily write what will be needed, and I was the first person who worked on the wiki for CC, so I know what players will need. Someone has already started to comment on that in a post in the other conversation about RK Ed.

I think it's wise to start a new thread about this subject. Easier to find for everyone.

If anyone has difficulty understanding what I write please tell me, I have a little experience with translation, and teaching English as second language so I can try to simplify my comments.

This is interesting news! Pedagogic skills in English as second language (Maybe I'm a hopeless case, English is my third language). I would be happy, if you could tell me, when I make really bad mistakes, not every little grammatical error, but important things. I want to be better, need to be better. It looks like I'm getting an English speaking son in law!

This is a long post, so I will not discuss balance formulas today, and I need to think about what I want to write to Red.  .

If you find your post long, what are mine? 

[Denis de la Rive]

It is great that we can share ideas. I find your English is not that bad, it can be understood easily. Sometimes I think you may confuse words that are similar like in your latest post, "cause" for "of course", they can sound similar but are written differently. Words in English can also have many meanings, and some expressions can be complicated too. English as a Germanic language has been greatly simplified by the Norman conquest, (a french speaking people), who could not understand it easily. It has lost most of its Germanic features to become very much dependent on context, (word order, and placement).

When I write about "custom 7", that is the name of the flag used in the code. I will try to indicate words like this better. Other materials may have other flag names, so you have to see what they are. Tools is tool, firewood is fuel. So if you make a cart for dung and tools, you will use in the code, the flags tool, and custom 7. You must then remember that flowers have the same flag as dung, so you will have those also in this cart. If you add fuel, then you also get firewood. There are so many variations you can make. I just want you understand how it works, if you know this please tell me.

About the graveyards, and happiness, I know you thought about this, I only ask if this is a good idea. I was also worried that so many deaths in one event could have very bad effect on your village. I am happy that you feel your village will survive.

I do not want to discuss what type of information will be in the documentation here, that I will do with Red. I do not think a public discussion is needed yet. If I need your help we can also exchange in private.

I always place a specialized storage building close to food producing, so that the worker has a short distance to travel after finishing his work. I let the vendors carry it to market. I think it is better to have houses near a market, instead of closer to the workplace. You save more time because going to the market,(for fuel, food, clothing, and tools) will happen more often than carrying production for storage, or getting goods for production.

What you post brings up interesting questions about how the game works, and how you can play, or how it is different from what I do. I like it.

As for long posts, it is after all your blog. 

[galensgranny]

Regarding graveyards, Nilla, I often add ghosted bushes to make it seem more like a park.

[Nilla]

It is great that we can share ideas. I find your English is not that bad, it can be understood easily. Sometimes I think you may confuse words that are similar like in your latest post, "cause" for "of course", they can sound similar but are written differently. Words in English can also have many meanings, and some expressions can be complicated too. English as a Germanic language has been greatly simplified by the Norman conquest, (a french speaking people), who could not understand it easily. It has lost most of its Germanic features to become very much dependent on context, (word order, and placement).

English is a difficult language. I know, I make these kind of mistakes. I've mainly learned English by listening to music and watching movies. This makes it's hard to know, where to use cause/course, than/then, its/it's...... Of course (!), I had English in school. We even had to learn 3 different foreign languages, if we wanted a highschool degree. I'm more the "math" person, who never understood, why anyone actually had to learn the clear and obvious math and physics. Foreign grammar without any kind of logic was a torment. So please, if you see some important mistakes, tell me. I want to improve

Languages do evolve, taking influences from many different places, nothing wrong about that. I'm sure, I wouldn't understand a word, if I met one of my viking ancestors.

When I write about "custom 7", that is the name of the flag used in the code. I will try to indicate words like this better. Other materials may have other flag names, so you have to see what they are. Tools is tool, firewood is fuel. So if you make a cart for dung and tools, you will use in the code, the flags tool, and custom 7. You must then remember that flowers have the same flag as dung, so you will have those also in this cart. If you add fuel, then you also get firewood. There are so many variations you can make. I just want you understand how it works, if you know this please tell me.

I'm pretty confident, in knowing how these things work. Maybe even a little better than you; dung and flowers don't have the same custom flag, neither "custum7" nor anything else. @RedKetchup doesn't use these words in his mod. He uses the word "Materials" containing, dung, clay, sand and maybe something more, I haven't used yet. He's using the word "Miscellaneous", containing flowers, seedlings, beeswax.** He's using words like "Forged", "Precious", "Construction". This is the terminology I'm going to use, when I talk about this mod.  Among modders, if they discuss how to "label" a product, I'm sure it makes sense to talk about "Custom"XYZ. Not here, it only helps to confuse people.

I do not want to discuss what type of information will be in the documentation here, that I will do with Red. I do not think a public discussion is needed yet. If I need your help we can also exchange in private.

I agree and disagree.

I find, a discussion about what people want to see in such information, should be held as a public discussion in its own thread. How to make it is a matter, that's better discussed private.

I always place a specialized storage building close to food producing, so that the worker has a short distance to travel after finishing his work. I let the vendors carry it to market. I think it is better to have houses near a market, instead of closer to the workplace. You save more time because going to the market,(for fuel, food, clothing, and tools) will happen more often than carrying production for storage, or getting goods for production.

Yes, this sounds like a good strategy, to keep the health up, if you want to use the specialized stores. But I prefere to build stores and homes close to production sites, if I can't combine both. My experience is, that people get home more often to eat and get warm, than they go to a market to get supply. It may happen, that a general barn close to a fisher contain only fish, but that's rare. Bannis like to spread their goods. Sometimes you like it, sometimes not. It's another thing, that makes Banished interesting.

What you post brings up interesting questions about how the game works, and how you can play, or how it is different from what I do. I like it.
As for long posts, it is after all your blog. 

I like these discussions. We all have our different ways to play. There's nothing right, nothing wrong. (Wrong! There's a lot of wrong ways, that may kill your population but not if you have some experience). I still learn new things, I try different approaches and like to get things to think about and try out.

**Which is the right way to express this: "he uses" or "he's using"?

when there is a tornado, you need to stop time and think quick. you need to look where is and where it is going. and then cancel all jobs in the possible paths the tornado can take and send all people to go cut trees/everything in the complete opposite direction. kids will also mostly kinda follow, they love to see events and they will go near the new jobs and watch.

Clever. I will try this by the next tornado.

Regarding graveyards, Nilla, I often add ghosted bushes to make it seem more like a park.

Good idea. I remember I once made a settlement with very much decorations, completely different from my normal way. I put a lot of ghosted flowers on the graveyard. It was a bit tricky to place them on the right spot. I also remember, that I had some genetic modified tulips and daffodils, larger than the tombstones and the Bannis idling on the graveyard!

I also saw that @RedKetchup plans to add his "Creepy Graveyard" to this mod. It looks great.

I wanted to tell you about my game, it has taken a slightly new direction, but that has to be later.

[RedKetchup]

**Which is the right way to express this: "he uses" or "he's using"?

i am not sure but i think you should say "he uses" when you think it will happends more than once or even all the time
"he is using" when you think it is only once or there will be an end to this at some point


like example: he uses this all the time, he is using it for the moment.

[Nilla]

i am not sure but i think you should say "he uses" when you think it will happends more than once or even all the time
"he is using" when you think it is only once or there will be an end to this at some point

like example: he uses this all the time, he is using it for the moment.

But in this case, did you use it once, when you decided to make it this way or should I think; it's this way all the time?  These grammatical things confuse me. I use my feeling, it's probably 50% right 50% wrong. But I hope still understandable.


First picture

I gave up the fence at the canal and thought instead, I could build it around the church/graveyard, but I found it too unimpressive for this. I discovered a small error. The color is wrong in some of the texts: The green is called white and the black yellow.

Second picture

Here is a ugly little thing, marked red. I don't really think it can be fixed by you @RedKetchup, by making this piece different. It's more an advice to other players, who want to build a canal.

I set these canal pieces on a spot of the map, where the ground isn't perfectly flat. Normally, you can fix this with the levelling tool, after the canal is built, but it doesn't work at this "joker" piece, where the canal is widened from 4 to 6 tiles. (Of course the canal should be as narrow as possible at the mill. We need the water to run fast, to turn the wheel). You can avoid such ugly pieces, if you level the ground, before you set the canal pieces. I should have remembered this from earlier canals, I've built.

Third picture

I have decided to test the jewelery chain. Not like I did in my first game in this test series, when I built these very nice looking buildings and made a few gemstones from the few gems I could find or buy in one trading port. But most of the time, these sites stood closed.

Normally I wouldn't have liked one more production chain to produce another export product. But this is ingenius! I laughed a bit @Denis de la Rive, when I read the first part of what you wrote in Red´s developing thread; that you thought this was overpowered. Theory is good, but not if you don't have the whole picture.

Anyhow, my ambition is to produce enough gems, gold and silver to run the gemcutter and jeweler continuously. This will need several random mines, I don't know yet how many. It will also need a strategy to process the other products from this mine in a way that makes sense. I also have/will build some trading ports here to support this business. I can say nothing about how it works yet, but it will be fun.

Since I will need a lot of miners, I also need a lot of houses in this area. Bricks, rooftiles, glass and lumber are produced in another part of the settlement. Not so far away, that I wanted to build more production sites here, but I thought a store for building materials would be perfect. But I forgot, how I flooded this place with fodder, one of these products that are spread to all possible storage. My strategy to secure, that all horses have enough food close, is overproduction, that I have tested here. But as many other things, there are also disadvantages, as we can see in this picture and in the last.

Fourth picture

I don't know, if I should show this picture. I was so proud, that I've built this canal without mistakes; no piece with the wrong direction of the water, no bridges forgotten, every piece in the right position............. except this last one. 

In the background, the mining town grows slowly.

Fifth picture

Here it is now. I don't think this number of mines is enough, but we will see. This experiment has just started.

There are some menus open for you guys.

@RedKetchup, if you look at the menus from all of my canal docks, you can see, they mostly contain "stock pile stuff". Is this really good? I think I have enough empty stockpiles, where it could be stored, still it looks like this. I've built them to store fish from the fisher, flour from the mill and maybe to be used like @brads3 suggested, for fast emptying of the trading port. I will try to solve this problem here by building some more stores for raw material with vendors, but I would prefere, that only normal "barn goods", can be stored here.

@Denis de la Rive, the town hall menu is for you. You can see, that the happiness graph doesn't look too bad. I have decided not to build any graveyards (except the one I have) despite all miners and stonecutter. I want to see, how much the happiness drops.

[brads3]

that is normal. the terrain along the river pushes the piece over.mine the water plane was short so i had to terraform and push out into the lake farther. even though i have different items than you,my dock storages are full too.not sure why the bannies like to store there.i used a vendor to pull back into some markets.just swap him around a few times.

[Gatherer]

You're lucky @Nilla. That meteor shower just narrowly missed all your houses.

[Nilla]

You're lucky @Nilla. That meteor shower just narrowly missed all your houses.

Sorry for being stupid, but I don´t understand one thing. But if you say it; I´m lucky!    

[Gatherer]

I count five impact craters on your last picture. So close.

[Nilla]