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Mod suggestion: Food stretching facilities!

Started by Chon Waen, February 21, 2015, 08:09:42 PM

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Chon Waen

No, this isn't a post to ask for a noodle shop! :o

My idea revolves around making food you grow last longer using non-food resources to help!

Come again? I don't think my Bannies want to eat rocks or bark!  ???

They won't, trust me!  8)

First building: Cannery
This building is designed to double your fruit and vegetable output per farm using iron as the added ingredient!
10 "raw" vegetable +1 iron = 20 Canned Vegetable
10 "raw" fruit +1 iron = 20 Canned Fruit

All canned products are to have a trade value of 1.  This is meant to stretch your food, not make you rich.
I'm thinking 2 workers per cannery
Each cannery should be able to process 1500-2000 raw fruit or veggies a year(output 3000-4000 food/year)

Second building: Smokehouse
This building is designed to increase your meat output dramatically using firewood as the added ingredient.
6 meat(except fish)+2 firewood = 20 Jerky(trade value =1ea)
20 fish + 2 firewood = 20 Smoked Fish (trade value =2ea)

I figure that since fish tends to pile up in the barns for most games I play, it would be good to have a value added option for fish and fish alone. Pasture meat can be processed to stretch it out for your Bannies.
Again figuring 2 workers per smokehouse, with an output of 3000-4000 food per year.

I am thinking building sizes should be either (5+1)x7 or (6+1)x6 for these facilities.

What do you guys think?


gerns

i like the idea.you could change the dry goods building?but a new building would be even be greater.great idea  ;D

RedKetchup

#2
nice ! at least someone doesnt ask impossible things ! (like many non-moddler ^^)

very good ideas as a whole. and fully feasible :)


First building: Cannery

the numbers are very good and realistic. the only thing : in 1600-1700-1800 did it existed at that time ? i thought the cannage process is from 1900+ and i would have rather think they would use pots (glass or even clay?)
we would need a huge drop box for all the vegs and all fruits. (no idea if a limit)

Second building: Smokehouse

6 meat(except fish)+2 firewood = 20 Jerky(trade value =1ea)
20 fish + 2 firewood = 20 Smoked Fish (trade value =2ea)

the fish part is perfect too (same as cannery) but the meat. you know the meat worth 3 per so 6x3=18 + 2 firewood at 4 = cost 26. and you pnly get 20 jerky x1 per. a final cost of minus -6. i think the trade value should be 2 too.
it will need a drop box menu for each of the meat (beef, venison, mutton) or fish. this is not a problem at all.

40 trade from 26 cost , 40 trade from 23 cost
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Nilla

Quote from: RedKetchup on February 21, 2015, 10:21:18 PM

the numbers are very good and realistic. the only thing : in 1600-1700-1800 did it existed at that time ? i thought the cannage process is from 1900+

I'm sure you're right there, cans are not that old. Old preservation methods: drying, smoking, salting, fermenting.

It is an interesting thought to process food. I am not sure though, that I like the thought of only increasing the amount of food, it will make the game easier. I think it would be better to increase the value a little bit.

I think @Red Ketchup, you had the idea before, that only somehow processed food would be tagged as "grain", "vegetables" "proteins" or "fruit". The raw materials only as "food". In such a game, the suggestions from @Chon Waen would be great.


RedKetchup

yes exactly. my plan was and still "is" make this mod complete, a big mod, not as brilliant as CC:EA cause i am alone on it and so few time available ....
and then take that mod and turn it into a challenging mod where all food are only food and you need process the food in order to get back their nutritive elements :)
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grammycat

I like this idea too-except instead of canning maybe a drying shed for vegetables and fruits?  A smoker would be perfect and go well with the time period of the game.  I also like RK's idea of processing food to gain nutritive value-eating raw wheat would be highly improbable.

rkelly17

Well, I've been asking for sauerkraut for a long time--something to do with all that (expletive deleted) cabbage. A "fermentary" would be quite useful, though one would need to add salt to the game to make it realistic. The fermentary (if I may invent a word) could also make salted fish--and pickled eggs to be served at the tavern.

The one issue I see is that, for all practical purposes, food in Banished is already permanent. It never goes bad. So, in order to make the buildings worth building there would need to be some value added. Maybe, if cabbage is worth one unit sauerkraut could be worth two units, or some such. Otherwise there is no point wasting the materials and workers to get something you already have without it.

Chon Waen

#7
My thought process on the jerky isn't so much to increase trade value per se. Its more to get the most food value out of farms and pastures without having to resort to trading as much. My first thought on jerky tbh was 3meat +1firewood = 15jerky, but I thought a 5:1 food ratio was excessive. Going with a trade value of 2 for jerky seems a good compromise.

And although metal cans are 19th century, i really didn't want to go the route of trying to add either potters or coopers to the game and excessively complicate the processes.

However, if I were to choose one or the other, it would have to be cooper because I am not keen on the idea of clay pits (quarry)

Cooper's Shop:
Size: (4+1)x7 or (6+1)x6 (add +1 for residence)
Workers: 2
Input ratio: 2 logs + 1 iron (trade value = 9)
Output ratio: 6 barrels @2ea trade value(12)

Yearly output at 2 workers: 720-960 barrels
I'm giving this output value so that one Cooper's Shop will support 1 Fermentary (300-400/yr) and one Tavern (400-500/yr)

Fruit drying shop (Drying Shed?)
Size: (5+1)x6 (add +1 for residence)
Workers: 2
Input ratio: 10 "raw" fruit +1 firewood (trade value = 14)
Output ratio: 20 dried fruit @1ea (trade value = 20)

Yearly output at 2 workers: 3000-4000

Cannery: (Fermentary?)
Size:(7+1)x5 (no residence)
Workers:2
Input ratio: 10 "raw" veggies +2 barrels (trade value 14)
Output ratio: 20 "canned" vegetables @1ea (trade value 20)

Yearly output at 2 workers: 3000-4000

Since we already have coopers, it seems to make sense to add barrels to the tavern process.
It would make brewing a bit harder and you wouldn't get quite the profit margin of original taverns (5 per ale), but I think that Ale is a bit overpowered as a trade good as is.

Tavern:
Size: (6+1)x5 (residence +1) no change from RK's Medieval Tavern
Workers: 1
Input: 30 fruit + 10 barrels (trade value = 50)
Output: 20 Ale@5ea (trade value = 100)

Double, triple, or quadruple the building's storage capacity so the brewer can have room to work (I remember reading about brewers not working due to storage constraints)
My secondary reason for changing the outputs and ale values is so more ale will get to the trading post and not get drunk enroute by your bannies!

Many of my input/output values are given as ratios because I don't know how many effective work units a facility should have over a given year.

Chon Waen

One of the reasons I try to keep output values low on food is quite simple. The game's economic model pretty well mandates it if you want a particular food to be eaten rather than traded.

The argument for making raw foods have poor nutritional value and processed foods a higher nutritional value sounds good at first blush, but it would most likely prove unworkable in the game.
Early in the game, your bannies would be starving with full plates of roots, berries, and onions!
It usually takes several game years before you are really ready to develop more advanced food processing.

Since other than food groups covered, food is food to the bannies, who don't care how much the food costs as long as they get their 100 units of it.  This is why pasture meats tend to be traded for crop foods. 1 mutton trades for 1 corn, 1apple, and 1 fish. Your bannie is both fuller and healthier by trading mutton instead of eating it!  The rule of thumb is: the more expensive the food, the more likely it will be traded for the basics.

This is why I generally try to make food processing generate a higher quantity of "cheap" foods that you don't want to trade. There's already plenty of trade goods out there. 

kee

Is it possible to mod in a spoilage factor? So that unprocessed food would have a markedly shorter shelf life than processed goods?
Kim Erik

RedKetchup

food doesnt have any lifetime parameters, and we cannot define one (as moddler). the food can last 1 billion year if we want ^^
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rkelly17

Quote from: Chon Waen on February 22, 2015, 12:51:09 PM
And although metal cans are 19th century, i really didn't want to go the route of trying to add either potters or coopers to the game and excessively complicate the processes.

However, if I were to choose one or the other, it would have to be cooper because I am not keen on the idea of clay pits (quarry)

Barrels of preserved foods were fairly common prior to cans. Thus the "cracker barrel" and "pickle barrel." Preserved meats (salted fish, salted beef) were usually in barrels. I'm not sure how far back the practice goes, but may have been connected with preserving foods in salt, which is quite ancient. Clay jars were earliest, no doubt, but barrels were common by the late Medieval period in Europe.


RedKetchup

so a barrel maker ? cant a blacksmith take care of that ?
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kee

Coopers were (and are) craftsmen in their own right. I suppose you could define the smitty as a generalized workshop, but that begs the question of why there is a taylor.
Kim Erik

Chon Waen

Ooh! Salt preservation!
My inner evil is whispering in my ear:
"Make Bannies work in salt mine!"

Honestly, though, I do NOT want salt mines added regardless of how historically accurate it may be.