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RedKetchup : Lucky Seven v:2.0

Started by RedKetchup, July 02, 2014, 09:26:17 PM

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irrelevant

A beautiful town and a tremendous achievement. Once again you have set the standard. Slow as I am, beating you will be very tough, but I shall try! ;D

RedKetchup

OH you ll do :) i dont have any worries ^^
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tomplum68

If you dont mind me picking your brain on a few things I saw in your screenshots.  You used a lot of large farms.  How many farmers were you using in those farms?  I've seen a lot of debate about ideal farm sizes and farmer allocations; do you find the larger farms with more farmers to be be more efficient than the smaller 15x4 one farmer models?

A lot of people have issues at larger populations with areas not getting resources.  When you made your districts, were these designed to be self sufficient to avoid these issues?

irrelevant

@RedKetchup I find your use of what are essentially mega forest nodes intriguing. How is that actually working? I notice you did eventually add some large farms, is that because the nodes weren't producing enough? What was the typical haul for one of your gatherer huts there?

RedKetchup

Quote from: tomplum68 on July 08, 2014, 06:03:04 AM
If you dont mind me picking your brain on a few things I saw in your screenshots.  You used a lot of large farms.  How many farmers were you using in those farms?  I've seen a lot of debate about ideal farm sizes and farmer allocations; do you find the larger farms with more farmers to be be more efficient than the smaller 15x4 one farmer models?

A lot of people have issues at larger populations with areas not getting resources.  When you made your districts, were these designed to be self sufficient to avoid these issues?

sometime in some maps i gone for 8x8 x1 worker which works awsome providing 448 food per worker but when your city is going up and start to cover the entire map, they become extremly not productive cause they start to wandering around the map more frenquently and not getting the job done at all.

the problem i have with making bigger crops is you always have 1 farmer never working. even if it means to go idle or pickup a ressource. the only time he go back to work it's because someone else of that field need to go afk/need something. so if you have a crop of 4 workers, only 3 works at any time. and if you have a crop of 3 workers, only 2 works. of course there can be some 'seconds' exception but that is 98% most of the time.

so lately , since the inefficient 8x8x1 in further stage , i just dont care anymore about the size/worker of the crop. i just put the default and i go with placement / space / eye looking good even if it means it is not the best (as production - food per worker)
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RedKetchup

#65
Quote from: irrelevant on July 08, 2014, 03:10:34 PM
@RedKetchup I find your use of what are essentially mega forest nodes intriguing. How is that actually working? I notice you did eventually add some large farms, is that because the nodes weren't producing enough? What was the typical haul for one of your gatherer huts there?

gatherers hut are extremly OP at begining providing 2000-2200 food per hut. (500-550 food per worker) it is awesome to feed 20-22 citizens
but at some point as your population rise to 2000 pop, you need x100 gatherer huts but no way you can get 100X huge orange circle forests on your map, it s a map limitation.

gatherer are most efficient per worker without space 1x1 grid square limitation (how many 1x1 grid square has 1 orange circle ? thousands)

crops is still the most efficient per space 1x1 grid square without 'workers available' limitation (how many workers you can put in 1 'gatherer orange hut circle' filled with crops? hundreds)

so being limited by space now, i have no choice to turn forests into crops to stabilize my food production/used meters because crop has the most food per 1x1 square in the game.

gonna try to make a screenshot with a gatherer hut orange circle filled with crops and try to count the number of farmer that can be working inside a such defined space.
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RedKetchup

#66
i cant do a screenshot of 'how good' were my gatherers before i added a tons of crops everywhere, i cut a good chunk of their farming ground and of course their production dropped alot but before i did it, they were producing for the % of ground i was providing them. for example, if i put a gatherer hut at a corner of a city, next to it, and i was giving them 75% of ground (25% cut for city buildings) they were producing 75% of 2000-2200 so roughly 1500-1600 food per year.
if i was giving them like 50% of farming ground, they were getting 1000-1100 food. everything is relative to the % potential ground you give them.
now they have like 25% of ground (city and crops taking 75%) they are getting only 25% of 2k food so like 400-500 food total per year even if i put 1 or 4 gatherers inside.
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RedKetchup

there is a test screenshot of a gatherer hut orange farming circle filled with full of crops. they are mainly 4x15 crops (which can easily handled by 1 farmer each)

48 crops of mainly 15x4x1workers, few exception of a 10x10x2farmers, and some has 4x12 or 4x10x1 farmers. i counted 48 crops, 48 farmers. plus you can put a 7x10x2 farmer where is the hut so ... 50 farmers.

that orange gatherer circle provide 2000-2200 food
How many food are produced by these 50 farmers ? around 20,000 food

i think it s around 7 food per 1x1
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RedKetchup

Quote from: tomplum68 on July 08, 2014, 06:03:04 AM
A lot of people have issues at larger populations with areas not getting resources.  When you made your districts, were these designed to be self sufficient to avoid these issues?

if you have markets everywhere you have population nodes you shouldnt have any problems of getting resources since the market vendor's jobs is getting those resources by carts.
but there is a condition, your main town in full middle of your map need to be able to provide all the extra resources needed by all your districts all around (if they cant craft enough to be efficient by themselves).

i didnt got any problems of resources anywhere in the map. only maybe some cloths but because i wasnt buying enough leather/wool from traders. nothing to do with distributions of resources.
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irrelevant

That's really an excellent demo of farm vs gatherer. Gatherers are critical for the early-middle time. After that....once you start farming, it doesn't really make sense to put out any more forest nodes. They just get in the way of expansion. I keep having to tear mine down! >:(


rkelly17

Love the research, @RedKetchup. I suspected that farmers could out-do gatherers in the same area, but this is massive out-doing.

@irrelevant, I agree that gatherers become globally unnecessary after farming, but I do build some more. The reason is that I seem to be chronically short of logs when trading. For example, in my vegetarian town Steel, which is my most successful trading town so far, my total supplies were usually around 700 logs, 2000 stone and 2000 iron. I suspect that this is because there are more users of logs (builders, woodcutters and blacksmiths) than there are of stone or iron. The upshot is I build more foresters with housing for them. I don't want my poor foresters to be hungry, so I build a gatherer next door and a barn so that food is close at hand. I usually also build a woodcutter in the same spot and s/he has to eat, too. So the gatherer is unnecessary globally but provides a need locally. The forest circle is going to be there anyway because of the forester. I may be completely out to lunch on this idea, but it seems to make sense to me at the moment.

mariesalias

@RedKetchup   Your symmetry inspires me to try something similar in game. I like the nice, neat layout. And I enjoyed the close-up photos especially. Grats on the Exports! achieve!I enjoyed reading your blog and seeing your town develop!

(As an aside, for some reason I keep trying to type your name as RedSkeleton... ??? So I apologize if I accidently do at some point. My brain must be telling me to go watch a movie. )



As to the gatherer vs farmer discussion; I do like rkell17 does. I keep/add gatherers because I have/add foresters, and they need food, too. Then woodcutters to cut the logs, and with a forester and gatherer, might as well add a hunter's lodge and herbalist. I try to get the area as self-sufficient as possible.


RedKetchup

#72
we need a new voting category ^^ Nice Layout ^^ (cause definitly nice layout isnt the same as best looking or best in show for most people haha)

also a question: Do people count a forest being worked by foresters/gatherer as '' used '' ?
or '' unused '' like if you never gone there and never farmed the stone/iron lying on the ground ?
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rkelly17

Quote from: RedKetchup on July 21, 2014, 03:31:13 PM
we need a new voting category ^^ Nice Layout ^^ (cause definitly nice layout isnt the same as best looking or best in show for most people haha)

also a question: Do people count a forest being worked by foresters/gatherer as '' used '' ?
or '' unused '' like if you never gone there and never farmed the stone/iron lying on the ground ?

I agree with the new category. Maybe even some sub-categories like "most artistic layout," "most efficient layout" and "best balance" or something like that since "nice" can mean a variety of things.

I would say that land in an active forest village circle is used. It is being cut and planted, gathered (food and herbs) and hunted. That sounds like "use" to me.

mariesalias

Quote from: rkelly17 on July 22, 2014, 08:10:01 AM

I would say that land in an active forest village circle is used. It is being cut and planted, gathered (food and herbs) and hunted. That sounds like "use" to me.

I would agree with this.