World of Banished

Conversations => Suggestions and Mod Ideas => Topic started by: Abandoned on February 27, 2017, 07:02:23 PM

Title: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on February 27, 2017, 07:02:23 PM
@Necora I am glad you are posting your mods here on this site.  I have been following your progress on your Black Liquid thread.  I thought this would be a good spot for you to keep us updated on work in progress.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on February 27, 2017, 07:41:08 PM
/signed :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on February 28, 2017, 01:03:59 PM
@Necora I have a few thoughts on the Maritime Dock Set and PEI Shores I am using in currant map.  So far so good, I am doing a little better with the dock set. It seems to me that the mid level and the corner pieces are the same 1x1 pieces.  I think the mid level pieces could use the f-variant with the ropes.  The PEI set is pretty cool, I wonder if the edible storage unit could have a door on both ends, I placed it backwards so they enter from on shore rather than the dock walkway but both sides would be good. 

Also I noticed that the riverboat food merchant had pike, mackerel, and hemp on board which I believe are from Nova Scotia Set so if both sets would be used at the same time the resources would be in there twice. Also I posted in the 1.0.7 discussion thread, the fisheries statistic boxes have 12 rows where less are needed.   Like the sets though  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on February 28, 2017, 02:35:22 PM
@Abandoned thanks for starting the thread.

I put all of the mid level pieces as F-variants for one button. I can expand the set, but I think I'll only use 1x1 pieces rather than all of the others too. I'll put it on a list for the next update.

Access for the storage, yup I can also add that as well.

As for the fish, pike is not mine... but mackerel is unless someone else introduced it too. I'm not sure what DS Village has now? I know that added more fish too. But mackerel and hemp should not be in that set, there are no mackerel or hemp files in the PEI or Dock Set packs, only the NS pack. As for two resources from different packs, as long as they are named the same 'under the hood' only one version will be used by the game, which ever comes first in the mod list. So you should't have multiple hemps etc. if using different sets that add them.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on February 28, 2017, 03:54:55 PM
it doesn't surprise me that she has weird animals in her maps. hell she is not even on the same planet anymore.lol
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on February 28, 2017, 04:18:40 PM
Hi Necora,  I Love the sets!  Question, is there a particular order to load these mods?  I'm having a crash when a 1x1 dock and the rope maker is loaded, also with the food cellar. I get the fatal access violation crash...   So far I can't get them to build these items without crashing.  Help?? ???
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on February 28, 2017, 05:08:45 PM
careful @brads3 you could get beamed up for supper of mackerel and mushrooms  :)

@Necora , I don't know where these fish and items come from, I thought they maybe got left behind when you separated into modules. I only have PEI & Dock Set downloaded and in map (story #11).  The only mod I activated but didn't list in intro because I decided not to use it in this map is @Discrepancy Jetty and Bridges.   Anyways, I can't wait to get to the chapter with the latest screenshots, I think you will like how the dock is turning out.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on February 28, 2017, 05:32:07 PM
@Abandoned  Ah, DS Jetty and Bridges includes the fishing spot and fish monger which is where they are coming from.

@adelegarland  hmmm... what a random combination of buildings. There should be no load order, but perhaps put the Nova Scotia set on top to be sure. It is probably best to always load the mods in order of most recent. I tried not to change anything between mods in the core files, but you never know. What are you doing to trigger the crash? Is it when placing? Or some other time?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on February 28, 2017, 05:46:32 PM
oh, a fish monger, that explains it, thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on February 28, 2017, 05:51:14 PM
tune in tomorrow as the world is invaded by pelicans and ostiches.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: taniu on March 01, 2017, 03:18:29 AM
Fauna in Canada .Canada's fauna can be divided into three provinces. They are: Arctic province, Canadian and Western US
Province Arctic:This province overlap with tundra covers the Arctic Archipelago and the areas located on the northern outskirts land of Canada
Animals ;musk-ox,karibu,foxes and arctic hares,lemmings,Arctic is the snowy owl and ptarmigan,Snow geese, brent goose ,predators;-polar bear.
to marine mammals include seals and walruses
Canadian Province:It covers an area of boreal forests and is the largest area of Canada
Animals;Moose and deer wapiti, inRocky Mountains-sheep,goat snow,in the forests they live black bear and grizzly,wolves, lynx and wolverines
rodents ;beavers and squirrels,birds -owls, hawks and eagles
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: taniu on March 01, 2017, 04:10:41 AM
Fauna in Canada
Province of the Western US -This region is the smallest part and represents the areas of the prairie. There are there mainly herbivorous species.
Animals;American bison,the pronghorn and mule deer,rodents -gopher and black-tailed prairie dog ,badger, birds -hawks and owls.
In Canada, there are numerous national parks and nature reserves ;Nations Parks Wood Buffalo ,Jasperand Banff
If you want to add any more animals to "Maritimes Pine Set" I made a list here
@ Necora . Stunning work! Thank you very much. Really adds to the game. Thank you for helping @ Necora a fantastic part of the "Maritimes." . Great moderators, I have great respect . Thank @Shock Puppet, @ kralyerg,@ Discrepansy . @ RedKetchup

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 01, 2017, 07:00:54 AM
Quote from: Necora on February 28, 2017, 05:32:07 PM
@Abandoned  Ah, DS Jetty and Bridges includes the fishing spot and fish monger which is where they are coming from.

@adelegarland  hmmm... what a random combination of buildings. There should be no load order, but perhaps put the Nova Scotia set on top to be sure. It is probably best to always load the mods in order of most recent. I tried not to change anything between mods in the core files, but you never know. What are you doing to trigger the crash? Is it when placing? Or some other time?

Seems to crash when the buildings complete building or when I add the worker to them.  I'm not sure which item is doing it...  going to try another game from scratch to see if I can pinpoint the stinker! 
Will let you know.    ;)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: calli74 on March 01, 2017, 08:37:31 AM
I had a crash yesterday after I started using the maple forester and the maple gatherer, the pine trapper and the skinner. It didn't happen when the buildings were completed or on adding a worker to any but after I'd finally had them working for a few mins in game. I had labourers clear out the old forrest so that the foresters could replant with the maples, things were spawning fine and being collected by the trapper and gatherer, the only thing I didn't see working was the skinner. I will help with testing if you want too because I was enjoying this mod, first time I've used it.

Edit: I'm using the beta 1.07 version and the new 1.72 CC for 1.07. Most of my mods are all the updated ones from here with a few old favourites so as the wagon vendor from DS.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 01, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
I had a crash, when I tried to change the limit, where lumber belong. I'm pretty sure, it was because, I played these 1.0.7 mods without upgrading the game. I have upgraded now and will start a new game tonight. I hope there will be no more crashes. But if there are, I will report it on this site as well as in my blog, where I describe my efforts and my opinions of these mods more thorough.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 01, 2017, 10:51:54 AM
Crashes everywhere ahh! I've played through with all buildings (all be it rather quickly) and only my mods and have not had any problems (using my Steam copy, not the mod kit, which seems to be more unstable).

I assume they might be due to either using the 106 vanilla game, or some other mods that have it different? I will go through all of the template files tonight in the mentioned buildings and see if there is anything a miss.

Cheers for the feedback all, sorry for the hassle!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 01, 2017, 02:43:18 PM
So crashes aside, I want to share some images of upcoming buildings. This is a set called 'Sherbrooke Village' and is based on an 1800s village in Sherbrooke, Nova Scotia. It is currently a small set, but I like the buildings so much I had to make a few. It will be vastly expanded in the future for the full small town experience! These will be 'medium level' buildings, so better production (and in the future options of goods) than the pine set, but not as good as high end industry.

Picture 1 - A work in progress market.

Picture 2 - A blacksmith

Picture 3 - A medium church

Picture 4 - A medium school

Picture 5 - A medium tailor
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 01, 2017, 04:14:17 PM
that looks great :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 01, 2017, 05:07:50 PM
Maritimes Production and Build Costs Spread Sheet
Note - this is a work in progress and will be updated as and when I can, so some buildings/resources may not be present.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qlbwy93r3fnowl/MaritimesSpreadsheet.xlsx?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6qlbwy93r3fnowl/MaritimesSpreadsheet.xlsx?dl=0)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on March 01, 2017, 07:21:01 PM
Quote from: Nilla on March 01, 2017, 10:29:39 AM
I had a crash, when I tried to change the limit, where lumber belong. I'm pretty sure, it was because, I played these 1.0.7 mods without upgrading the game. I have upgraded now and will start a new game tonight. I hope there will be no more crashes. But if there are, I will report it on this site as well as in my blog, where I describe my efforts and my opinions of these mods more thorough.
Do you have a link to your blog somewhere here on WoB? I had a quick look but couldn't find anything :(
EDIT: I think I've found it, I was expecting it to be on another website but I believe that the blog you mention is in the Village Blogs section of this website. I found it a few seconds after posting this reply, I should have checked WoB for a little bit longer!  ::)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 02, 2017, 02:47:50 AM
You are right @TheOtherMicheal. I meant the blog at the headline Village Blogs here at WOB. It's where I write about my "testings".
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 02, 2017, 07:31:46 AM
Hi Necora..
I'm still trying to pinpoint the item causing the crashes, but it seems so random.   But I have a question - as a player, not a modder, should I be using the beta test version 1.0.7 or should I test these in the No Beta mode?   I've been in the 1.0.7 beta, perhaps this is making crashes?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 02, 2017, 07:57:24 AM
@adelegarland these mods were made with the 107 beta modkit, so they should be used with the 107 beta game.

What other mods are you using?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 02, 2017, 08:19:51 AM
Quote from: Necora on March 02, 2017, 07:57:24 AM
@adelegarland these mods were made with the 107 beta modkit, so they should be used with the 107 beta game.

What other mods are you using?

I'm using a ton of mods...   Mostly RedKetchup's, Discrepancy, Kid's.  A lot of others, Slinks hogs, cotton sand brewery, Tani's New Flora, some older ones, tree growth and life by Minasthouse, unlimited hunting from tom sawyer, wildlife by zen, some storage increases, wild crops by davidem, a bunch by Embx61 - a church, bakery, oil press, winery...   and a bunch more.   been collecting mods since the game came out.   I've got so many favorites!   
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 02, 2017, 08:35:56 AM
ADELEGARLAND, did you try to disable  NECORA's mods and see if you get the crash?? have you played with the mod order much since the new community icon? older mods should work with the new 1.07, but i worry how difficult getting the mod order right is going to be troublesome. now that more will show conflict.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: grammycat on March 02, 2017, 09:06:27 AM
Adelegarland-try disabling all but the newer 1.07 mods and see if you still crash.  If you don't then one of your older mods is the culprit.  If you use Colonial Charter, several of the mods you listed conflict with that depending on your load order.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 02, 2017, 09:24:46 AM
Don't use colonial charter.  Am trying different mod loads as we speak, will keep you updated.   The crashes seem to take place after I've built several homes, trades, etc.  So will take some time   Thanks for all the suggestions, keep em coming!  I'll be back! 

Edit: Another question, I stopped using but would love to try again the Tree of Life Mod, Anyone have experience with it with the new Mods?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 02, 2017, 12:46:08 PM
I went on playing my game a little while ago and had a crash, just as a merchant docked into the port. I can guess, that it has something to do with the fact, that the merchants are CC and I play without it. It doesn't happen each time, when a merchant arrive. Several merchants has arrived without any crashes. I will go on and see if it happens again.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on March 02, 2017, 04:42:33 PM
@Necora  @adelegarland I'm using all the updated Maritimes mods with Banished build 1.0.7 beta but also with Colonial Charter 1.72. I have a lot of the mods adelegarland is using and I'm not getting any crashes except for one that I believe is unrelated to Necora's mods - whenever I build the vanilla stockpile and charcoal gets placed in it the game gives me a Fatal Access Violation (but I don't normally build the vanilla stockpile because it's inefficient compared to other storage so I'm not too worried about it).

As mentioned, I have a lot of mods enabled (including a few storage mods), a number of these mods were made for build 1.0.6 and one or two were made for earlier game builds. So far I haven't had any of the crash issues - except for that stockpile thing which is kind of weird but doesn't stop me from playing so <shrug> I don't worry about it.
There's a few mods in her list that I do not have (cotton sand brewery, Slink's hogs, tree growth and life, wildife) but I'm guessing that the crash is caused by one of two situations, 1. one of the older mods that changes something like reource spawns or 2. load order.

@adelegarland have you placed Necora's mods at the top of your load order? I'm thinking that without Colonial Charter, Necora's mods are providing all the info regarding the new resource flags (unless you have other mods made for build 1.0.7) and because some of Necora's resources require their own specialized storage, perhaps the game is getting screwed up by trying to use 1.0.6 storage for 1.0.7 resources?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: grammycat on March 02, 2017, 06:29:05 PM
I know the Wildlife mod and Tree Growth mod conflict as they both change the aging of trees.  Also, how the tree growth mod handles new trees, like in Necora's mod, could present a conflict too.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on March 02, 2017, 07:08:55 PM
@grammycat aha! I don't have those mods so I didn't know what they changed in the game but I think you might have found the culprit!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 03, 2017, 02:26:38 AM
After hours of playing without problem yesterday evening, I had another crash. It was late; some kind of "Nilla-go-to-bed-alarm-crash" so I shut the computer and went to bed.

At the first crash, I saw the merchant just docking, as the game crashed. This time I was busy elsewhere, so I cant say for sure, what happenend. I started the auto save this morning and it's probably a merchant this time, too: one arrived after a few minutes.

Maybe one (or a few) of the CC-merchants causes this. I seldom play CC, so I don't remember all of these merchants. There are some I know of, that I haven't seen in this game; the ones who sell animals, luxury goods, fruit and vegetables. Maybe some more I can't recall. Could beone of those.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on March 03, 2017, 03:57:48 AM
@Nilla your crash may be due to the boatman having too many items.  There is a fix for it.  I don't know how to post a link but the zip is in a post by Red under mod discussions back on Sept 26, 2014 MOD General Goods Merchant Fix for boat overflow crash.  I did a search for general goods merchant fix and found it.  Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on March 03, 2017, 05:43:32 AM
@Nilla did you notice if the game was autosaving at the time of the crash? I ask because in the last three hours I have had two crashes when the game tried to autosave. One caused my computer to stop, I have a music player running in the background when I play Banished (because I got bored with the in game music after so many hours of playing!) and it stopped completely so I knew something bad was about to happen.
The second crash didn't stop the computer but gave me the Fatal Access Violation popup.

I have a lot of mods running and I thought maybe there was too much information for the autosave but other autosaves worked fine and manual saves worked fine as well. I am wondering if it's a problem with the 1.0.7 beta rather than any particular mod?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 03, 2017, 07:14:45 AM
 @Abandoned: I`m sure the trading fix from Red wouldn't help here. I know it. It was made at the beginning of modding, as there wasn't enough space for all the new products the modders added to the game. But that was fixed in the next patch of the game and shouldn't be a problem here. But thanks anyway!

@TheOtherMicheal: No I'm pretty sure, it wasn't saving as the crash came. Because of the first crash, I changed the autosave to every 5 minutes. And I played several hours yesterday evening; many autosaves without problem.

But I had a weird crash today. After the game crashed yesterday I shut the computer and went to bed. Today, I started the last autosave, just to make some screenshots, to show in my blog. The game didn't run, but stayed open. I watched an internet television stream on my second monitor, at the same time as I looked at the screenshots and wrote the text. (WC ski crosscountry, we won bronze in men's relay :) ) It was only Banished that crashed, not the rest. I have no idea what that could be.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 03, 2017, 07:38:43 AM
Quote from: TheOtherMicheal on March 02, 2017, 04:42:33 PM
@Necora  @adelegarland I'm using all the updated Maritimes mods with Banished build 1.0.7 beta but also with Colonial Charter 1.72. I have a lot of the mods adelegarland is using and I'm not getting any crashes except for one that I believe is unrelated to Necora's mods - whenever I build the vanilla stockpile and charcoal gets placed in it the game gives me a Fatal Access Violation (but I don't normally build the vanilla stockpile because it's inefficient compared to other storage so I'm not too worried about it).

As mentioned, I have a lot of mods enabled (including a few storage mods), a number of these mods were made for build 1.0.6 and one or two were made for earlier game builds. So far I haven't had any of the crash issues - except for that stockpile thing which is kind of weird but doesn't stop me from playing so <shrug> I don't worry about it.
There's a few mods in her list that I do not have (cotton sand brewery, Slink's hogs, tree growth and life, wildife) but I'm guessing that the crash is caused by one of two situations, 1. one of the older mods that changes something like reource spawns or 2. load order.

@adelegarland have you placed Necora's mods at the top of your load order? I'm thinking that without Colonial Charter, Necora's mods are providing all the info regarding the new resource flags (unless you have other mods made for build 1.0.7) and because some of Necora's resources require their own specialized storage, perhaps the game is getting screwed up by trying to use 1.0.6 storage for 1.0.7 resources?


@theothermichael  You make a lot of sense!  I'm trying a new village with Maritimes first in the load order, than all the 1.0.7's then anything that shows up with no conflict.    If it doesn't crash, I'll try adding in the 1.0.6 items at the end of the load order and see if they are causing the crashing.   Yesterday I played with it using only the 1.07's first and non-conflict mods but with maritimes in the middle of the load order.  Going to use your advice and put them a the top this time!    Thanks!!  (All of my other mods are showing conflicts, including storage.  But DS's new 1.0.7 storage has a set of storage yards that seem to have really good capacity...  So rendering some of the older storage mods obsolete.)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 03, 2017, 07:15:21 PM
When I have a crash that is too complex to solve my very first thing to do is delete the Autosave file completely.
Load the last good full save, save with the current time stamp and quit.
Go into the load menu, delete the Autosave.
Exit the game entirely
Go to your local saves folder, make sure the Autosave has been deleted fully.
Load Banished
Load the last save
Let it run

Banished will then generate a new Autosave and shouldn't crash when the same events happen in the new (old) game map.

There was an issue I had with @Necora rope maker, when the Banni tried to take it to the local tools & hardware market it would crash my game, but that was about a month ago and I haven't had it happen since the new releases.  I was never able to confirm it was exactly that, but it was the common event when that game would crash.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 04, 2017, 03:33:11 AM
I'm sad to say, that I had another crash in my game yesterday. This time it was no merchant. I have no idea, why this happened. I reloaded the autosave, but opposite to the other crashes, it happened again, to exactly the same time. The second (and third) time I didn't build anything, just let the game run, still crash.

I haven't thought of deleting the autosaves. Do you think, it could be somehow corrupted @QueryEverything? I don't understand how, but I will try to do it your way. I wanted to go back to my last save anyway and see what happens. Unfortunately, I haven't made many saves, so I have to play several years again.

I play Necora´s mods without CC. I have no idea, if it has anything to do with these crashes. Has anyone any experience here; playing these mods with/without CC?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 04, 2017, 04:50:44 AM
@Nilla I had a map where every 3 mins after reload it would crash, right when the autosave would attempt (I had the swirly icon in the top left), no matter what I did, it just crashed.
I had enough, deleted the autosave completely and then I was able to run the map from the previous save without any issues at all, and went for 2 + hours. 

I can't offer any guarantees, but, it has to be worth a shot :)  *WARNING - backup the autosave first (copy & paste) in case it isn't that issue, and you can reload that autosave.   OR
Save the map as soon as you reload it.  Then delete the autosave, that way you still have all the work you finished, and all those years, but you get rid of any corruption in the file save. 

Good luck Nilla, it's such a pain!! :(
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 04, 2017, 06:35:35 AM
@Nilla I'm so sorry to hear about the crashes. It seems to be save game related, but I have no idea how my mod would have caused that with nothing being changed between saves. I have not played extensively with the beta game, so I will try and do so if I can get the time.

With the dock related crashes @adelegarland I have been thinking. I don't understand how the 1x1 dock piece can cause a crash, it doesn't do anything once built. I'm wondering if that crash was something else but just happened to occur at the same time? With regards to rope makers, there could be a couple of issues.

1) Storage flags in buildings - raw materials will use different flags between new 107 mods and old 106 mods. If a bannie needs hemp/flax to make rope, but the flag is set at something different between mods, then they will not be able to place it in the building but will just keep walking back and forth between storage and building with the item. This, however, should not cause a crash, just a very tired bannie.

2) Storage flags in stock piles - The new limits/flags moved some resources around. For example, rope and dory were materials previously (using the CoalFuel flag). This meant that they were to be stored in a stock pile, and so had 3 extra mesh instances for the stock pile piles. If they don't have this, the game crashes when they are put into the stock pile. With the new limits, rope and dory are now under 'crafted' for Custom0 flag, which is to be stored in barns. This means I took away the stock pile meshs. If, however, you have another mod above the maritimes which causes rope and dory to be materials once again, such as a 106 maritimes or CC or something, then when they are put into the stock pile it will crash the game.

3) Again, with mods from 106, there may be an odd occurrence where the resource limit and the building limit are different, which may cause the game to crash when these are used.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 04, 2017, 09:52:36 AM
Dev update - I have finished pulling the Sherbrooke set out of the big mod, attached are some pictures. We have a blacksmith, tailor, school, church, market, and saw mill. I had the idea of 3 'levels' of buildings, basic, middle, and advanced. The pine set and PEI Shore set makes up the basic level, Sherbrooke and NS Fisheries make up the middle level, and I have not got to the third level yet!

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 04, 2017, 10:01:22 AM
could pick a different area of canada like near the rockies.  define 3rd level. what do you have for ideas of what it should consist of? i still have my farm-homestead and the lodge and different way of doing the forest set ideas.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 04, 2017, 12:50:57 PM
Hi Necora,
I've been working a game with only 1.0.7 mods and non conflict mods that are all green in the load order. I started with none of your maritime mods, and added them in one at a time, playing for hours with each addition and adding the normal items to progress the game.   I've added them in in order of when they were released, and most of the mods were OK, several "fake crashes" where the program crashed on a Save/Quit/Load sequence, usually crashing on loading, then being stable on a second load.    Got to the Crystal Cliffs and all kinds of crashes began.    I built everything in the wild resource production tab before the crashing started... I think that as things were collected and processed, somewhere in that process something messes up. It seems that since building these items the crashing began.  Its always the fatal access violation error.  Do you know if there is anything in the crash dump file to tell us what went wrong?  I don't know how to get it open to see it.

I am going to compile a list of all the mods I am using in their current load order and post that too.   right now I'm quitting for the day, been playing this since 7:00 this morning and its almost 1PM.    Time for a break.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 04, 2017, 02:08:34 PM
@adelegarland hmmm...

You said it started crashing once you set up the crystal cliffs mod. There are few common resources between those mods, the main one being lumber.

Indeed, I checked the lumber template file and in the Crystal Cliffs mod it does have the old 'CoalFuel' flag/limit rather than the new 'Custom5' flag/limit.

That might be one cause of a crash. I'm currently updating the mods now, but won't be able to upload anything until next week due to bad internet. In the mean time, move crystal cliffs below the Pine Set in your load order, that should fix the lumber issue making the pine set lumber load first. Lumber is only a build requirement in crystal cliffs, so there should be no issue there at all.

As for the crash dumps, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 04, 2017, 07:39:48 PM
@adelegarland I have mine listed in the following order, over CC & MM (if you run them), and I haven't had a problem with lumber, in fact I had to turn it off because I ran out of buildings that used it :D


See if this load order helps you.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 04, 2017, 09:00:46 PM
@Nilla and @adelegarland I have updated Crystal Cliffs, see change log below. Hopefully this will fix some things.

The new version is save game compatible, although you'll get some super funky textures! So you'll have to destroy any Crystal Cliffs buildings then re-build them.

Also, make sure Crystal Cliffs is now on the top of your load order at least until the other sets are updated, as I have made some changes to the toolbar and things behind the scenes.

Cheers!


Crystal Cliffs V101 - Change Log

New Items - Brown, Red, and White Fence Sets - Each colour has been added to, introducing a diagonal piece, and some gate options. Each colour fence set now has an individual tool bar submenu, and each fence piece now has an individual tool bar button. This means no more scrolling through F-variants to construct fences.

Squished Bug - Lumber - An incorrect storage flag for lumber has been corrected. This should hopefully help prevent crashing.

Squished Bug - Domesticated Animal - Storage flag for domesticated animal has been changed to Misc (Custom7) to be compatible with CC.

Squished Bug - Stable - Limit for the stable has been changed to Misc (Custom7) to be compatible with CC.

Model Improvement - Goat Pen - The goat pen texture has been made larger so it looks better in game.

Model Improvement - Hutch - The hutch texture has been made larger so it looks better in game.

Model Improvement - Barn - An inside wall has been added to the underside of the barn to prevent seeing through.

Model Improvement - Stable and Milk Pen - A door has been built into the back of the stable and milk pen to represent the full walk through of the building.

Model Improvement - Goat - The goat has some smooth shades.

UI Update - Building UI - All production building UIs have been updated to include an inventory.

UI Update - Building UI - All building UIs have been updated to improve layout.

Core File Update - Toolbar - Maritimes toolbars have been updated to accomodate future additions and improve organisation.

Core File Update - Traders - Trade files have been updated to revert to vanilla traders.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 05, 2017, 03:43:13 AM
Thank you for the update. I will try it. I'll let you know, if it works in this existing game.

I just looked, I have Crystal Cliff on top. That's good because I'm not sure, you can change the order in an existing game.

I made some more "reseach" yesterday evening: When you're looking on upgrade; take a look at the gatherer in the maple forest. There might be something wrong about that building. I'll explain why I suggest this.

After I've deleted my autosaves, I went back to the last "real" save, to play these years again. I had 2 "trade crashes". I guess, you have solved this by changing to vanilla merchants. I have some small ports from Kid as well. No crashes were caused by these merchants. After some years, again I had a crash, I couldn't explain: no merchant, no autosave to this time. When I started the autosave, it crashed again to the same time, same as last time. But I got an idea and deleted the last building, I've built; the gatherer in the maple forest. It was the lastest building also the first time. As I started the same autosave again; no crash.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 05, 2017, 06:54:01 AM
The gatherer? I went through the template, and can't see how it will cause any problems. It is basically the vanilla template with model, name, and output changed. The only two things this introduces are cranberry and maple sap, and everything seems in order with those too.

It is really odd because I had a long play through yesterday. I found many things that need to be changed, but didn't have any crashes.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 05, 2017, 08:43:39 AM
Quote from: QueryEverything on March 04, 2017, 07:39:48 PM
@adelegarland I have mine listed in the following order, over CC & MM (if you run them), and I haven't had a problem with lumber, in fact I had to turn it off because I ran out of buildings that used it :D


See if this load order helps you.
That is the way my last game was configured...  And Crashed!!   
Just DL'd the new crystal cliffs updated files (Thanks Necora  :-*)  and am going to start an brand new game today with the updated mod and the new updates from Kid. Wish Me Luck! :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 05, 2017, 09:24:32 AM
Together with the gatherer, I demolished the maple forester. I didn't think it caused the trouble, because it worked several years without problems, but the game crashed less than ½ year after I built the gatherer. It might have had a totally different reason. But I started the same save twice, with the same crash at the same time, before started it a third time, I demolished these buildings and went on with the game with no more problems.

I have now downloaded your new version of Crystal Cliff. I wanted to test this crash behaviour again, so I tried to load the save before this crash. It didn't work, the game crashed immediately, even before opening. But as I started my last save, it works alright.

I will build a maple forester and gatherer as soon as possible in this game and see what happens. I'll tell you how it works.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 05, 2017, 09:45:06 AM
@Nilla and @adelegarland I hope it works for you!

I'm so sorry about this. It is so frustrating to see you with crashes, but I cannot replicate them! I play through Steam, with only my mods loaded, and have not had a crash. So it is really hard to pin point what exactly is causing it. I went for about 3 hours yesterday and found nothing (well, I found lots of issues, but none serious). I have not tried saving the game though.

Have you had any issues with the 107 beta without my mods and with other peoples mods?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 05, 2017, 10:14:16 AM
Hi Necora
As promised, I'm attaching a list of the mods I'm using.    I just started a new game with your stuff on top with the latest versions and in the order in the PDF.   I'll play with it today and let you know...   Maybe you've fixed it all with the new release of crystal cliffs!!   I'll let you know, meanwhile thanks again for your hard work, I really appreciate it! 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: kid1293 on March 05, 2017, 11:40:08 AM
Just a quick response.
@adelegarland - you don't have to use both versions of
Vegetable Garden. They are the same except for start conditions.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on March 05, 2017, 04:52:40 PM
Quote from: kid1293 on March 05, 2017, 11:40:08 AM
Just a quick response.
@adelegarland - you don't have to use both versions of
Vegetable Garden. They are the same except for start conditions.
And if you use the Vegetable Medium Start version, it will function exactly like the other version if you don't use a Medium start condition so as Kid said, there's no need for both of them.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 05, 2017, 04:58:47 PM
Now, I'm quite sure. The gatherer in the maple forest causes the crash. I played a couple of years without any problems, then I built the gather for the maple forest. I didn't take long: crash. I made a save just before I built the gatherer's tent. So, I went back and played a year or so. Then I built a new gatherer. I held the menu open. First he collected a little maple sap, then a few berries, then crash. 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 05, 2017, 05:09:58 PM
Quote from: Nilla on March 05, 2017, 04:58:47 PM
Now, I'm quite sure. The gatherer in the maple forest causes the crash. I played a couple of years without any problems, then I built the gather for the maple forest. I didn't take long: crash. I made a save just before I built the gatherer's tent. So, I went back and played a year or so. Then I built a new gatherer. I held the menu open. First he collected a little maple sap, then a few berries, then crash. 

Right I'm onto the bugger.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: calli74 on March 05, 2017, 05:15:58 PM
Maybe it's possible then that it was the maple gatherer that cause my crashes as I had those built and working before the skinner both times I crashed and maybe it's just coincidence that it happend both times just after I started using the skinner.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 05, 2017, 07:38:05 PM
Hi all,

I'm currently updating all mods. The new Pine Set should be up by tomorrow (depending on my internet of course).

As for the crash, I hope I sorted it. I have been through that forager file top to bottom. It sounds like a flag issue, if it was happening after a certain time. Perhaps someone was putting some maple sap where they shouldn't have been.

Maple sap has changed to an inedible fruit now, so hopefully that solves the gatherer crash.

If not, I don't know where else to look.

@Nilla one thing, did you try the vanilla gatherer and pine harvester? Did they cause any problems? They are the exact same building and code as the maple forager. The only thing different between the three is the names and the resources gathered. That might help pin point something if those buildings are acting fine.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 05, 2017, 09:36:54 PM
All mods have now been updated.

I hope this solves these crashes!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 06, 2017, 03:28:01 AM
Quote from: Necora on March 05, 2017, 07:38:05 PM

@Nilla one thing, did you try the vanilla gatherer and pine harvester? Did they cause any problems? They are the exact same building and code as the maple forager. The only thing different between the three is the names and the resources gathered. That might help pin point something if those buildings are acting fine.

They've run without problems many years. You might be on something with the maple sap in the wrong storage, because it takes a little while after you've staffed the building, until the crash comes. As I looked it was pretty soon, but the first thing, that was collected was maple sap.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 06, 2017, 04:46:25 AM
Quote from: Nilla on March 06, 2017, 03:28:01 AM
Quote from: Necora on March 05, 2017, 07:38:05 PM

@Nilla one thing, did you try the vanilla gatherer and pine harvester? Did they cause any problems? They are the exact same building and code as the maple forager. The only thing different between the three is the names and the resources gathered. That might help pin point something if those buildings are acting fine.

They've run without problems many years. You might be on something with the maple sap in the wrong storage, because it takes a little while after you've staffed the building, until the crash comes. As I looked it was pretty soon, but the first thing, that was collected was maple sap.


Oh I think I just realized what it is! I put all forestry items under the new 'Materials' flag, which is Custom4 I believe, and for some reason I think Maple Sap was included in that. This flag, however, is also associated with stock piles. So the workers were trying to put the Maple Sap into a stock pile. The only problem is, maple sap doesn't have any 'pile' meshes, i.e. the things that show up when workers put the item into a stock pile. When that happens, the game crashes. This also explains why I could not replicate the crash, I only used the Pine Material Storage near my forest outpost because I hate the stock piles. This meant that I didn't notice not having the pile mesh as it isn't needed in a building.

This should be solved in the latest update as I have now made maple sap an inedible fruit, so it will only be stored in storage which has the 'Fruit' flag.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 06, 2017, 11:53:32 AM
Hey Necora,    Got a question.   Domesticated animals, where do you get them, which gatherer or hunter?
By the way, dl'd everything this morning and have been playing for 4 hours, no big problems!   a couple of crashes on quitting, but saved game was fine.   So.. Good Job!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 06, 2017, 12:33:21 PM
@adelegarland by crashes on quitting do you mean when you quit the game from the in game menu? If so, did you do the load up trick when you add new mods? The one where you enable mods then exit then re-load then play.

Domesticated animals are produced by the stable in exchange for grain. 250 gain (wheat, barley, oats, or corn) makes 1 domesticated animal. This is the same dynamic as in CC.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 06, 2017, 01:02:46 PM
the crashes happen when in game and I save then quit to the main menu.  that's when it crashes.   I've never tried the trick you mentioned...  will do that when adding new mods.
I've never used the CC stuff, so I'm not familiar with its workings.   
I also never use the debug thingy to increase any resources, I play from scratch each time I start a game... that's why I just finally built a trader and started to use the products from the Pine set.   built a pitch kiln, loom, spinner, lumber cutter.   Two crashes to report.  A merchant came by and when I opened the trader, it crashed when I tried to increase the number of items I was trading for the cows.  I loaded my last save before this and did exactly the same thing and it crashed again...  In the traders inventory were flax, pine bough, pine resin and maple syrup along with the usually stones logs etc.
Then I loaded and ignored the trader, and clicked on the kiln and it crashed when I clicked on the product choice.   Did this twice, and twice it crashed...  loaded a third time and paused the game, did the same thing and it was fine.   I have the trader back now, I bought some food with logs with no problem, next time I will try to use the flax and pine products to buy something.   It's weird how it kind of crashes then fixes itself.    that trick you mentioned, will that help, do you think?   
btw I have two computers so I am able to be here ion the site and at the game simultaneously.  (ain't I special  ::)  )
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 06, 2017, 01:59:59 PM
Just some short information. I loaded your upgrades and the Maritimes Storage. I've played a couple of hours tonight. Everything works fine, no more crashes. Even the gatherer in the maple forest works! Thank you for finding the problem! :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 06, 2017, 03:28:29 PM
@Nilla great!

@adelegarland There was an incorrect storage flag in the pine pitch. I changed it and ran it and it seems to work now. Try re-downloading it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qq0332w1vv0ntxh/MaritimesPineSet.pkm?dl=0

As for the trader, that is strange that it then worked OK. It is just a copy of the vanilla trader, so if there is something wrong there it should show up on all trade posts. Is it the PEI trader or the vanilla one?

The game is funny with new mods. Load the game, then from the first main menu go to the mod list. Enable any new mods, change the order to what you like, then go back to the main menu. But instead of starting a game, exit the game entirely. Then re-load the game and start as usual. I'm not sure why this happens, but that should stop the crashes upon exiting the game.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 06, 2017, 04:07:32 PM
@Necora Thanks for the advice.  The trader was vanilla.    I've just begun a brand new game,   but I'll quit and download the new pine set and start again.    Thanks for helping me with all this!


Oh yeah, forgot to mention on the pine herbalist, bannies heads are popping through the tent! 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 06, 2017, 08:37:19 PM
@adelegarland ha well we don't want them getting head aches, I'll put that on the list for the next update.



Dev Update.

So this evening I had a good play through with all of the maritimes mods, and I got quite engrossed in it! I have to say, I did also have CC loaded for the start conditions, maps, and decorations.

I now have plenty of ideas of things to add, mainly decorations. I think we need the pine trees to be decorative so you can put them all over your town. I also want to improve the models of most resources and make them all decorative. This will include adding a new blue berry bush, a cranberry bush, a small apple tree for those wild resources and making the others look nicer.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 06, 2017, 11:46:06 PM
@Necora did you tweak the numbers on the shore fisheries?  They seem a little less than what they were producing in the original Maritimes mod.  I rarely ever suffered starvation previously, even with just 5 buildings running, now I just can't keep up with the population.  I don't have the numbers handy, it just seems ...  less ...
:)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 07, 2017, 08:21:01 AM
@Necora I have a special request... maybe you could do a 1x2 and 1x3 dock with no ropes at all, kind of like a platform so I can make wider docks.  Just a thought...   ;)   

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 07, 2017, 08:48:29 AM
Just wanted to tell; I loaded the upgraded version of the Pine-mod and can´t start it: Crash.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 07, 2017, 09:18:09 AM
@QueryEverything I don't think so... they should be the same as before.

@adelegarland yup they are on the list, someone else requested it too. I guess if two people request it, it must be done!

@Nilla That is strange I was playing with it all last night and it was fine. Maybe the upload was corrupted... I did find it strange that it uploaded almost instantly on my internet, which should be impossible. I've re-uploaded it now from work. Try this.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ez74jhy24sbp46r/MaritimesPineSet.pkm?dl=0
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 07, 2017, 01:10:17 PM
No, still crash. Doesn´t matter. I can start a new game.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 07, 2017, 01:27:15 PM
I can't load an older version otherwise I would to check for any changes, it just feels a little different. 
I will see what happens on the next map :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 08, 2017, 07:34:21 AM
I played a bit this afternoon and noticed a bug at the maple boiler: The worker wants to put maple sap there, but can't get rid of it, somehow. She gets there again, and again, and again carrying 100 maple sap around, producing nothing.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 08, 2017, 02:40:46 PM
Quote from: Nilla on March 08, 2017, 07:34:21 AM
I played a bit this afternoon and noticed a bug at the maple boiler: The worker wants to put maple sap there, but can't get rid of it, somehow. She gets there again, and again, and again carrying 100 maple sap around, producing nothing.

that mean the storage flag isnt the same as the rawmaterial flag.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 08, 2017, 06:12:01 PM
Yup I stumbled across that bug yesterday too. I guess I forgot to add the right storage flag when I changed maple sap to a Fruit. Sorry. I gotta do better at keeping up with these changes. I've started keeping lists of things that I need to double check.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 10, 2017, 04:20:23 PM
We've been having an interesting discussion over in Nilla's testing the maritimes thread (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1567.0) and I decided to bring it to this thread so that we don't take over @Nilla 's thread completely and so if anyone else who is not reading that thread doesn't miss out on the discussion.

The idea is to change the Crystal Cliffs animal pens to make them a) less powerful, or at least cost something, and b) realistic. This has ended up with introducing food for the animals, which I am currently working with as using the corn resource from the vanilla game - you will need to grow corn to feed the animals that will produce a range of items.

Here are the numbers...

Small Animal Pen (previously known as the Goat Pen).

Produce Option 1 = Goats Milk.
Produce Option 2 = Wool (from sheep).

Small Animal Hutch (previously known as the Chicken Hutch).

Produce Option 1 = Eggs (from chickens).
Produce Option 2 = Fur (from rabbits).

I will aim to change the work time/ work required so that these are not too powerful, but I have the impression that the fur and wool output will be rather high.

To get these numbers I had to change the Vanilla wool and egg template to get the different create values (higher in both instances) and some differentiation between educated and non-educated. So there might be some effects on other mods.

At the moment, if your educated worker managed 10 work cycles in 1 year, they would produce the following (separately, only one item per building)...
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 10, 2017, 05:21:15 PM
I ran this new set up for a few years and here are the highest numbers I achieved.

Fur = 144
Eggs = 270
Goats Milk = 435
Wool = 150
Milk  = 1320 ** 3 workers at this location.

Now, these numbers were achieved using the Debug menu. This meant that all bannies were educated and there were no impacts of cold, health, or happiness. So they didn't need to go home between shifts and just worked worked worked. I also used the Debug to give an unlimited supply of corn. So the only limiting factor, was how far they had to walk for storage. I had each one right next to a storage, and built trade posts that sucked up all of the food so that the storage never got full.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 10, 2017, 05:28:43 PM
thats way too much furs

personally i used the leather numbers
how you named your file ? RawMaterialFur.rsc ?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 10, 2017, 05:44:20 PM
rawmaterialfur.rsc and in this case it is the same as the wool, however I had to reduce the non-educated production for balance (vanilla wool is 6-6).

Value = 5
Low Create = 4
High Create = 6

Since that test I have increased work time/required to 11-11, and you have to take into account no one will reach those numbers in a game because I turned off hunger and cold etc., but I agree they are still too high.

I think the only thing to do is to make them two separate hutches producing only eggs and only fur, the same with the pens, one only for wool and one only for milk to take away the option. Then I can change the work time/required for each one and make it better.

@RedKetchup  What number of fur would you aim for?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 10, 2017, 05:48:49 PM
here's my RawMaterialFur.rsc file

create 2 to 3 furs ( nonEd - Educated )
Weight : 10
Worth : 20 ( fur is fur , alot more valuable than simple leather )
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 10, 2017, 06:18:00 PM
@RedKetchup I used that initially for the pine set, but was wondering if fur was too high a trade value.

The issue with fur, is that while things like beaver pelt were high in value, other fur (hare, deer, coyote, bear) were much less so. Perhaps the best solution for incorporating fur well into the game is to have two different types.

'Fur Pelts' could be things like beaver. These are high trade value, like your fur resource. The reason these were high value were not only the fur but also the skin too, so the whole pelt was valued. You could then increase the value of your fur, and have it as a lucrative trade option which is pretty much what it was for the colonies.

A second type of fur could be just fur, not pelt, a lower trade value like that of wool, that can be used as a wool alternative in clothing. That is what I was thinking of here, and using it in a clothing chain as an alternative of wool for warmth. This is realistic to northern colonies.

What do you think?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 10, 2017, 06:52:59 PM
you are entirely free to make a 2nd fur..... with lower value.

just make sure the name of the file is different to prevent bad conflicts
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 11, 2017, 03:04:10 AM
As I've said, I like the idea of an input of fodder, if you want to have animal products, as alternative to pastures.

To the numbers. The way I see production in Banished.

In my current game I'm using Red's hunting tower. That sets the trade price, also for your furs to 20. That's a good thing. Why should fur cost less than leather hide? It doesn't make your trapper overpowered, @Necora. Not at all! It just makes it worth to use a trapper. I've guessed you've come to know me a bit; if I see, that a building or profession bring a too low profit, I don't run it, unless I need the product for something and can't buy it. Normally, I would never run a trapper, who produces around 100 wild animal worth 1 each year. But if the skinner increases the value, the way he does now, with the trade value of 20 for furs, with an average trade value of 500-600, I might use it, even if it's still much less than some other export goods (vanilla woodchopper 2000-3000 as example).

But of cause, if your rabbit furs would pay 20, the rabbits would be more profitable than the other pens. I would like them to give about the same profit for 1 worker. It's a good way, to compensate the larger, more expensive building, with the possibility to have more workers.

When you calculate to compare the good out of the pens, I think you ought to calculate a bit different. You must reduce the output with the cost of the input.

3 milk/egg cost 2 corn to produce. That means the "real production" is in fact only 1/3 of your number. That's too low compared to other food producers.

For wool/rabbit furs (if you set the value 5) you get 3*5=15 out of 10 corn. A profit of 5 for 3 furs/wool.

The real production value for your products (with your best production conditions) would be

Fur 240
Egg 90
Goat milk 145
Wool 250
Milk 440 (or 147 for each farmer)

I wouldn't even concider to produce any of these food. If the fur was for trade only, I wouldn't produce any either (but maybe if it could be used to process further), maybe wool, if I don't have enough sheep or space to build pastures.

To your idea in that other thread; that you have to rebuild the pens from time to time (as the animals die). I don't like that idea. Why should I have to demolish and rebuild anything just because an animal dies. Of cause a single goat reproduce. Why do you think, you can milk a goat? It just has to be taken to a "billy-goat" from time to time. ;)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 12, 2017, 02:32:34 PM
@Nilla I'm not sure what you mean with those trade values, I assume you mean net value gain? I am aiming for 1.5 for educated worker, so 100 in, 150 out, especially in food stuffs. Do you want more? Because that seems a little extreme, to make 200 or 300 milk value from 100 corn value. Is that not rather over powered? We can increase the value of milk, but only by a small amount otherwise you won't produce enough to consume let alone trade, it isn't a luxury item (although these days some may argue that it should be).


Dev Note.

The PEI set has been updated to hopefully get better trade options.

The pine set is also being uploaded now (might take a while, it is big) with a few minor bug fixes such as the maple boiler, whiskey, and also sorting out some weights of certain items.

I've also thrown in a couple of new buildings for it, a tavern and a guest house so that your nomads can be warm and your bannies can be warmer.

Attached are some pictures.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 12, 2017, 05:59:27 PM
Pine set is taking a little longer as that tavern and guest house gave me ideas for more houses...

Small town house - same stats as cabin.
Tall town house - same stats as upgraded cabin.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 13, 2017, 01:03:10 AM
These look fabulous :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 13, 2017, 01:37:11 AM
people are starting to used with wonderful colors :)

they cant go without now :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 13, 2017, 05:46:10 AM
I'll try again to explain what I mean. How I got these numbers:

Set eggs as an example: 100 grain gives 150 eggs. That means to make 3 eggs you need 2 grain or each egg cost 0.67 grain to produce. The profit is 0,33 for each egg. With 270 eggs each year, that means the win on food is 270*0,33 =90 or to explain it in a less mathematical way; to get these 270 eggs, you have to give 180 grain away, so in real only 90 food is produced. That's not enough for a reasonable food production site.

I find a production site, that uses an input of material should prodcue at least as much as a fisher, that uses none. (Or better a little more. It's harder to run such a production site. You must think of good location with enough raw material.) Back to your eggs. There are several ways to get there.

a. Reduce the input of grain. (Seems to me the best, most realistic thing to do. A chicken doesn't eat that much)
b. Keep 100 in 150 out, but increase the productivity about 5 times. (That would be a lot of eggs and a lot of grain consumed)
c. Increase the trade value for eggs to about 5, to make eggs a trading good. (I don't think we need more trading goods, especially not food)

If you want to look at good balancing. I find, there are two modders, active on this web page, who are really good at it. It's @RedKetchup and @Tom Sawyer. They are a bit different: Red adept his production numbers to the vanilla buildings. Some have a little high production, but they are never overpowered, compared to vanilla and you'll never find a building with a really low production. Tom has thrown every vanilla production number away and created his own system. Different to vanilla but everything makes very much sense.

To your inn/guesthouse

Cute as always. But I'm not sure, I like the flat roofs. The will broke in winter with a lot of snow and leak water in summer. (Can't help it, once an engineer, always an engineer  :-\ :-[)

Two questions: How do you attract nomads in your game without the vanilla nomad attracting buildings, or some other nomad attracting mods? Do you have any plans in making your own. Or is there something already, that I have overseen. I don't get any in my present game. (But could of cause build some of Kids nomad attractors, if I want some)

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 13, 2017, 09:12:43 AM
@Nilla Ok I think we are talking in different languages here, I was looking at raw trade value you were talking (i think) about actual production numbers. Either way, let's go a different route. I was looking through @RedKetchup 's work in progress and the discussion on his fodder chain. It seems a consensus for secondary or tertiary production buildings to result in a total food production of between 400 and 700 units per person in the chain, is that reasonable? If so, then my raw numbers are good, but perhaps production output can be sped up a bit.

Take a 11x11 tile corn field. That corn field will produce, with an educated worker, 847 units of corn (121 total tiles, divided by 4 for the amount of tiles 'harvested' to produce 1 bundle of corn, 28 units of corn for 1 bundle... all vanilla numbers). Now the egg hutch will take that 847 units of corn and produce 1,270 eggs, at a rate of 1.5 eggs per 1 corn. 2 workers make this chain, which results in 1,270 eggs/ 2 or 625.25 units of food per worker. That is pretty reasonable no?

The only thing stopping you getting this many eggs per year is the time it takes the hutch to work, which I think is where this needs to be sped up, perhaps not to those lofty heights afterall any un-used corn for the chickens is still eaten or used somewhere else.

You say chickens don't eat much, well a hen only lays 1 egg a day, or doesn't at all, and needs what, 1/2 pound of feed a day? For a 2 ounce egg? That is at least double the feed than for egg out, on a day that a hen lays. More if you factor in the days they don't lay. I was looking into getting chickens a while ago but they were not economical for me at the moment, maybe in a few years.

The problem with value of food, is I believe it is only for trade. If I increase the value to 10, it is still 1 portion of food when consumed. I don't mind making milk and eggs have a value of 2 for better trade options, but any more and it doesn't seem to make sense. Keeping numbers low and increasing value means you are still stuck with bad food output, and I only trade food to get rid of it when I have too much later in the game.

I'm not sure about nomads, I assumed all town halls would attract them as I've not changed anything from vanilla apart from model and stuff, but perhaps I am missing something.

@RedKetchup the coloured houses just came out so nice! And the maritimes is a very colourful place, so while these buildings are not running with the theme of the other mods, I wanted to get as much colour as possible.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 13, 2017, 10:15:28 AM

Quote from: Necora on March 13, 2017, 09:12:43 AM
Take a 11x11 tile corn field. That corn field will produce, with an educated worker, 847 units of corn (121 total tiles, divided by 4 for the amount of tiles 'harvested' to produce 1 bundle of corn, 28 units of corn for 1 bundle... all vanilla numbers). Now the egg hutch will take that 847 units of corn and produce 1,270 eggs, at a rate of 1.5 eggs per 1 corn. 2 workers make this chain, which results in 1,270 eggs/ 2 or 625.25 units of food per worker. That is pretty reasonable no?

Absolutely reasonable. In my way of calculating, it would mean that the egg farmer alone, would make 1270 eggs-847corn=423 food each year. But the problem is; at your example the egg farmer didn't produce close to 1270 each year. As you say, to get there, you'll need to increase the production rate, a lot.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: The Pilgrim on March 13, 2017, 11:20:37 AM
@Nilla I think your math is a little off. 1270-847 isn't 423 food produced, it 423 food profit.  Just because it uses 847 corn to get there it isn't subtracted from the total output. The total of 1270 is still edible.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 13, 2017, 04:50:03 PM
I think it is exactly what Nilla means. The farmer on the field produces 800, the farmer at the chicken hutch produces 400 and both together produce 1200 food. Sorry but I would not say that it is reasonable. Its so much from this tiny box on a 1x1 where I can imagine maximum 4 hens or so, just to be there. But for 1200 units of eggs in a year there have to be 100 chickens in this box. So to say ghosted chickens and if something is created from ghosted things it becomes unreasonable, at least for me.

I thought that to feed the animals with a crop is a good idea but it did not solve the problem. The chicken hutch still produces 400 units of eggs on 1 tile while in a pasture it needs 200 tiles. There is only a turnover of food added but nothing changed at the problem. And I have no clue how to solve it without making it useless because of the full-time worker at this hutch who cannot do something else and who needs a minimum of 200 or 300 food profit to make sense. The object is just too small. I see only two options. Remove it or keep it with a useful amount of created food and accept that it is not reasonable.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: grammycat on March 13, 2017, 05:45:32 PM
4 chickens laying an egg a day is 28 eggs a week which means 1456 eggs a year.  100 chickens would lay 700 eggs a week thus producing 36,400 eggs a year. The chicken coop looks reasonable to me, if anything it's low.
edited for punctuation.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 13, 2017, 06:57:28 PM
Grammy, "1 eggs" in banished is not a single egg. It's the amount of eggs laid by a chicken per month. So a chicken creates 12 units of eggs in a year and you need about 8 chickens to feed a citizen. That means 4 chickens in the box would create 48 eggs in a year. It's not enough to feed the full-time worker himself. So it's necessary to increase the production. With or without "food flow" by a crop does not really matter but it limits the possible cheat by spamming "ghosted chickens" and that's a nice effect of the fodder idea. I also think it's not a big problem to have it not reasonable. Other things are not logical too. More important is that it is not useless or even a loss of food.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 13, 2017, 07:04:20 PM
 ??? Who ever knew that chickens could cause so much discussion!

What I really wanted to do with the pine set and these small buildings is to create more of a 'back yard' or 'small homestead' theme to the game, which is something that Banished is missing. If we think of the general time period of the game, first colonies etc., then that was extremely prevalent over large scale farming operations like what the pastures etc. give. So a small back yard hutch or goat pen was what I was going for with this. It is hard to fit into the Banished mechanics. It is the same with the maple boiler, cider press, and whiskey still. It is nice to have them, but at the end of the day if they don't produce a better number of item (these are consumables) then it is not worth building them and wasting a bannie or two to run the chains.

@Tom Sawyer I know what you mean, which is why I initially kept the production time very slow at first, but it seems that then for 1 worker to produce only enough food as for himself it is really not worth while. That being said, a small hutch that produces 400 extra food than the crop input only really feeds 1 more family that what would have just eaten the corn, or a few of families if you count it in among the need for a balanced diet. While you are right that it is a lot for a 1x1 square, technically you have to also take into account the field what is needed to provide for it as well. With a 11x11 crop field it is in total 122 squares to get your 1200 eggs. I'm not sure how the pastures work, how many eggs does a pasture produce? Looking at the egg and livestock chicken template file it looks like 1 chicken drops 1 egg a month, so 12 a year. Eggs have a create of 6, so that is 72 eggs a year for a chicken. In a 120 square pasture (12x10) you get 20 chickens, so that is 1440 eggs a year... plus the chicken meat produced from the pasture which I am not sure how to calculate from the template files. Are these numbers correct? I see that the pasture has 22 chickens for 1400 eggs (plus however much chicken meat) compared to 4 for 1200 in the pens, but in terms of area needed and workers required the pasture is still more productive but only because it needs 1 worker while the hutch needs 2 (crop field and hutch). Also as per Grammycat's reasoning, that pasture is very under-powered (which is why I used the chicken plus mod for a while otherwise it wasn't worth having a chicken pasture as sheep and cows produced wool and leather making them more attractive to me).

While you could spam the map with hutches, you can't if you don't also have the fields of corn or the trade of corn to maintain them, and the cost of corn in producing that many domesticated animals to make them (it costs 800 corn in the form of 4 domesticated animals just to build one hutch). This one of the downsides of the CC small pens IMO, that once built, they are free for ever and produce a lot of milk/wool for nothing apart from 1 worker and 3x3 tiles.

I think the work needed by 2 workers is as valuable as the space required in tiles, after all, for a long time at the start of the game the number of citizens is going to be your biggest limiting factor in all production chains. Not to mention you also need the stables and corn fields to even build the hutches, along with the lumber resource to build the stables. I think a healthy output of eggs is a not bad considering the work that goes into producing them, all things included.



And another thing, @Tom Sawyer , @Nilla , @grammycat , @The Pilgrim , @RedKetchup and all else who have commented, I really appreciate the discussion and the input to make the chains as good as they can be, because I have very little experience on the balancing side of things. I only started doing this in December last year and it is the first time I have every modded for games, so I have a lot to learn about how it works and how to make things not only look good but also function well and not break the game or mess up other (better and more established) modders stuff.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: grammycat on March 13, 2017, 07:23:27 PM
Thank you Tom Sawyer for the explanation, as much as I've played the game I did not know this.  Necora, I like the idea of homesteads and feel that there is enough overpowered things to compensate for a few underpowered ones.  You've become quite an accomplished modder in such a short amount of time!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 13, 2017, 07:25:47 PM
@Tom Sawyer and @grammycat yeah I was wrong about how pastures work, I was treating them in the same way as other production buildings. I just ran a test pasture and my numbers in the last post were way off, pastures don't work as I thought they did. From a full 11x12 pasture I got only around 220 eggs and 72 chicken, which to me is really really low. 220 eggs a year from 20 hens? That is ridiculous.

I know you explained it in another post but I didn't quite understand how create could be different from the drop of one animal, now I get it.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 13, 2017, 09:12:47 PM
Quote from: Necora on March 13, 2017, 07:04:20 PM
??? Who ever knew that chickens could cause so much discussion!

What I really wanted to do with the pine set and these small buildings is to create more of a 'back yard' or 'small homestead' theme to the game, which is something that Banished is missing. If we think of the general time period of the game, first colonies etc., then that was extremely prevalent over large scale farming operations like what the pastures etc. give. So a small back yard hutch or goat pen was what I was going for with this. It is hard to fit into the Banished mechanics. It is the same with the maple boiler, cider press, and whiskey still. It is nice to have them, but at the end of the day if they don't produce a better number of item (these are consumables) then it is not worth building them and wasting a bannie or two to run the chains.

--- (ed)

While you could spam the map with hutches, you can't if you don't also have the fields of corn or the trade of corn to maintain them, and the cost of corn in producing that many domesticated animals to make them (it costs 800 corn in the form of 4 domesticated animals just to build one hutch). This one of the downsides of the CC small pens IMO, that once built, they are free for ever and produce a lot of milk/wool for nothing apart from 1 worker and 3x3 tiles.

I think the work needed by 2 workers is as valuable as the space required in tiles, after all, for a long time at the start of the game the number of citizens is going to be your biggest limiting factor in all production chains. Not to mention you also need the stables and corn fields to even build the hutches, along with the lumber resource to build the stables. I think a healthy output of eggs is a not bad considering the work that goes into producing them, all things included.

As you know I am an avid advocate for the small home farm, little farmlets and self-sufficient regions, and I love these new additions.

I disagree (a little) with the idea that the CC pens are free forever, we still need the 1 bannie manning the pens, at 100 per yr (plus tools & clothing & a house & heating resources (at least 4 other people who need food for their part in the chain)), BUT for those of us unlucky to have few domesticated animals found, and no grain seeds at the start of the map, we need to trade to get those seeds, sometimes 3500-4000 food value, then we have to wait for the trader to come with the correct seed, then we need a farmer bannie x 3 (depending on the output of the harvest etc).  The setup means that the animal pens may take years to make good on the outlay (pardon the pun).
BUT - we're not talking about CC, haha, but I thought I'd leave my voiceprint behind here as well.  :)

I get that there are some players that want to play to realism, to the line of hard times, that they want to really push their game play, and I'm ok with that - but, I say, this is not a Sim.  This isn't a RW Simulation, it's not something that has been coded to allow any form of realism, in fact, it's designed to destroy a community, which is why there are so many "challenge" map ideas, to see if we can beat the game.  BUT - there are many players (me included), that don't want to be in a hyper real game, we want to play a game that will challenge us, but we can still grow in.

I think (in my own opinion), so what that the eggs may be on the high side - they are only a small value for trade, you are certainly not going to get rich from them, and when you do add them to recipes for omelettes, cakes etc, it requires a lot of resources to make the next item in the food chain, so you're constantly going to have to expand your resource buildings to keep up with that as well.

From an 'average joe' user, some of this 'weights & measures' becomes too much. 

This isn't a rant at anyone (and certainly not at @Necora ) I just felt like saying ...  it's only eggs .... (with a lot of words, sorry :D )
(and how I felt about the CC pens as it took me years in a recent map to be able to even build 1, let alone enough to make a break even point, ahahaaa)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 14, 2017, 06:04:25 AM
We certainly started a discussion with your eggs, @Necora !  ;D

First, (this seems to be some kind of mantra :-\): We all play Banished in different ways. I will say, it's impossible to create a mod, that suits every kind of player. A mod that everyone finds great. But it's not a bad thing. There are hundreds of mods out there, good mods for everyone. We can take our pick and chose the one we like. My "good ones" might no the the same "good ones" as @QueryEverything or @grammycat, (just to mention players that recently wrote here) but that's fine.

When I make my comments, of cause, it's from my point of view, based on my way of playing, my way of thinking. I'm well aware, that it's not the "absolute truth". And I'm not demanding, everything to be changed to fit me.

You modders are very resourceful and talented in creating new and beautiful buildings. Your idea of a small scale family farming is great @Necora. It brings something new into this game. That's enough for many players. But I'm sorry to say, not for me. I like a building/set of buildings to make sense. What do I mean?

I don't mean realistic sense. If a Banished hen produces 10 or 2000 units eggs each year, doesn't matter, neither do the amount of grain it needs. Banished doesn't count in kilos, pounds or number of eggs. 1 unit is more like an undefined sized basket full of eggs or bag of grain. If this was the only food available; one person could survive one year from 100 of these baskets/bags.  :-\ 

What I mean with making sense is:
- an average Banished food producer should prodcue 400 - 500 food/worker each year. If the production site needs an input, it means it ought to produce 400-500 + the value of the needed rawmaterial.
- it should produce a bit less, if it's cheap, small or have no input
- it should produce a bit more, if it needs a lot of space, is expensive or have a complicated production chain

This could also be applied to other products: an average production in trade value of 400-500 each year. (of cause the value of the raw material must be counded in)
- chosen export goods could be higher, as well as products from complicated chains
- some steps in  production chains could be lower and the total chain counted together, but each step should give some profit, otherwise stingy people like me, would buy the rawmaterial/intermediate product, instead of producing it.

Not every vanilla building fit into this, some are low (why do you think I never build any vanilla chicken pastures or stonecutter?) ;), others too high (woodchopper and brewer) but most of the buildings are well in this range.

And @Necora you´re doing fine as a new modder. If you want to improve your balancing, I think it would be good, if you followed some "guidlines", like these I mentioned above. Not neccessarily the same. Make your own. But if the production always fit into your way of making sense, I think your mods would be "good ones" for most players. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 14, 2017, 08:01:56 AM
<<<<throws sheets of paper into the wind .bangs head on wall.
  where did i place all those notes on the farmstead idea?? that was the basics behind it. to have the output numbers controlled by the modder. but a realistic home and pasture idea where a family worked together to do all these small projects but with less workers also. gives the varied items and diet but balanced for 1 or 2 families. and without needing 1 worker for each food.
    historically a family would be larger and work together. in banished you have 2 adults and several children. the dad would farm and take care of livestock but also hunt and fix tools,cut firewood. mom and the daughters would tend to chickens and gardens but also pick apples and berries nearby. plus they would process  food and make or repair clothing. the game doesn't allow a bani to have multiple jobs without lots of micro managing.
   a homstead could have a small chicken coop and goat with a small pasture for beef or sheep. gardens,an apple or pear tree, and some fruit or berry bushes. the family can process cheese,butter,and still cut up the venison  or some turkeys. and since it can function with only 2 adults the output numbers can be balanced between the 4 food groups and still produce enough tools,clothing and firewood to support the house. a way to solve both issues. if each homestead produces 26% more than it needs ,then you have some trade value or food to support some mining or other town growth as well.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 15, 2017, 02:02:30 AM
I think this early game farmstead or "Adam and Eve gaming" works very well with the game mechanic and is one of the funniest way to play Banished. Of course only with a lot of micromanagement but that's the fun and without would be just boring. The cool thing for this kind of game is the flexible job system in Banished. A citizen can do all over a year... plant trees in a new orchard, chop firewood in winter, gather some berries or hunt a deer in the forest, forge a tool in a smithy and then carry resources to a barn or build a house and later harvest the field. Most buildings and functions support this kind of game. A pen or hutch using the production function is one of the few objects which do not work for a farmstead. Because it needs a full-time worker the whole year for some food and does not allow micromanagement. A small pasture with a few chickens works better. You can run it without a worker but they still lay eggs and people pick them up. Perfect farmstead simulation. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 20, 2017, 02:45:49 PM
Not to feel left out from the fantastic developments @RedKetchup has made with trees, I decided to re-visit some trees from the Pine Set and make them look, well, more like trees. I've completely changed the method I was using to make them, to a much less complex but more time consuming way, with better results.

Pic 1 - New Spruce trees with variants.

Pic 2 - New White Pine trees.

Pic 3 - Both.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on March 20, 2017, 03:49:07 PM
I have much tree envy ...
Also, my preferred start map (currently) is the CC Pines, Very Large map on Mild.
I'm such a tree hippy ;)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 20, 2017, 04:11:11 PM
will this also fix the way the shadows on them look? to me the pines seem too dark almost black. i zoomed back on and i think its something to do with the way the upper branches shadow onto the lower branches. happens even in winter.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 20, 2017, 06:30:05 PM
Quote from: Necora on March 20, 2017, 02:45:49 PM
Pic 1 - New Spruce trees with variants.

Pic 2 - New White Pine trees.

Pic 3 - Both.

@Necora  Your white pines looks very very awesome !
you have nothing to envy my meshes, yours are looking as great or easily looking alot better !!!!
<3
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on March 20, 2017, 08:33:47 PM
OK, I need these new trees!   Where do we get em?  Love them! ;D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 20, 2017, 08:36:23 PM
Cheers @RedKetchup all this talk about trees has inspired me to improve the whole pine set natural resources.

@adelegarland when I have done all of the natural resources, they will be in the next pine set update. I am also thinking about putting together a maritimes start condition (or which ever it is to change the natural resources spawned on the map to start with) as an addon mod. I am also trying to decide how to go about decorations, whether they should be in individual sets, or as a separate decoration pack, perhaps with the storage.

The maple... now has a red and green variant. I'm not sure if the foliage is perhaps a bit too much. It could do with some shading perhaps.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 20, 2017, 09:35:31 PM
you need to work out your maples though ^^ hehe
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 21, 2017, 09:10:43 AM
@RedKetchup yes, yes I do  :-[

So I got stuck at home today due to an ice storm... perfect opportunity to do those maples! I can't tell you how many different methods/combinations I've tried this morning... but I ultimately came up with these...

Pic 1 - New Maples (version 2) - 4 variants, 2 green and 2 red

Pic 2 - New Maples (version 2) in winter

Pic 3 - A fun before and after comparisons of the trees... from right to left New Spruce, Old Spruce, New White Pine, Old White Pine, New Maple, Old Maple. What was I thinking with the original pine??????

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 21, 2017, 09:17:24 AM
it looks more natural :)
good job !
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 21, 2017, 10:26:22 AM
I like your new ever green trees. I'm sorry to say, I didn't realize your old pine tree was a pine.  :-[ Since I'm not familiar with the trees from oversea, I though it was something that grows there. But I liked it, I find it looks cool! But your new trees look more real.

One question these red maple: are they always red in real? Our maples might be red in the autumn but in summer, they are green. I hope you will use the green version of the maple in the summer. (Not sure if it can be changed in autumn). If I play CC with the map with the red and purple trees, I always cut them as fast as I can. I don't like the over all sight of the forest with them in there.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 21, 2017, 12:43:42 PM
@Nilla yeah the pine was a pine purely on the texture, which were pine needles. But nothing about it really came out right, I just didn't know how to fix it until now.

The maples, well, no here they are not red all year round. I think there is a Japanese one which is. I have no idea if you can change the colour of the fall foliage in game, it seems to all turn orange/yellow. I did the red for some variation, but can always just keep it as a decoration not a wild type.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 21, 2017, 03:14:12 PM
NILLA,what the hell kind of tree are you smoking over there? you don't know what a pine tree looks like? i know europe cut all their trees down but i thought they would have grown back by now.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: elemental on March 21, 2017, 03:48:31 PM
Quote from: Necora on March 21, 2017, 12:43:42 PM

I have no idea if you can change the colour of the fall foliage in game, it seems to all turn orange/yellow.

Unfortunately you can't control tree colours with the seasons. Trees have one leaf colour/texture and whatever colour it is (red, green, anything else) it stays like that through spring and summer until autumn when everything goes yellow/brown/black. You can't control the autumn colour change either. It's totally automatic, so you can't make a green tree turn red.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 22, 2017, 04:41:32 PM
@elemental that is what I thought, shame we cant at least change the colour they turn in the fall.



So here are some pics. First, I've been improving the natural resources and raw materials in the pine set so they look better. This is how many I've done so far, about 1/2 way through.

The other pics are a few I took of various buildings with the new trees as natural starting trees.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 22, 2017, 04:54:19 PM
you don't expect us to read those letters on the barrels zoomed out do  you? are those white birch trees? zoomed in they look too white. zoomed out especially in the winter the bark looks very good.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 23, 2017, 05:30:23 AM
I can only say; WOW! Can´t wait to try your next version. You really have a talent for creating good looking things! :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on March 23, 2017, 08:17:43 AM
Quote from: Nilla on March 23, 2017, 05:30:23 AM
I can only say; WOW! Can´t wait to try your next version. You really have a talent for creating good looking things! :)


100% agree
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 25, 2017, 08:37:49 AM
Thanks all  :)

Quote from: Nilla on March 23, 2017, 05:30:23 AM
I can only say; WOW! Can´t wait to try your next version. You really have a talent for creating good looking things! :)

Pretty perhaps, unfortunately by talent for balancing and functionality is severely lacking ;)



Coming soon to a download section near you... Maritimes Trees Replacement Addon - An addon mod that will replace vanilla trees with new ones from this set. Including apple, aspen, birch, fir, maple, spruce, and white pine.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on March 25, 2017, 09:01:03 AM
wow,so we will have new forests that give us foods without planting the trees. will this override CC starts also?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 25, 2017, 09:08:49 AM
I like it, even the orange colored maples (?). It's a "humble" shade, that doesn't disturb my eyes. Good work!

And to balancing; you're not bad. Has anyone complained, except me? And we both know, that I have somehow extreme opinions. In most cases your balancing works. And I certainly don't want to discourage you.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 25, 2017, 09:38:07 AM
@brads3 it won't give you any new resources, it is simply a tree model over-ride.

I decided to keep vanilla resources so people can choose to use it with or without other maritimes mods, and it will not effect the functionality of other mods. So it will work with all vanilla foresters/gatherers/herbalists, and any other forsters/gatherers/herbalists that add a new model but use the vanilla tree resource.

The only part of the code this impacts is (should be) the tree models, nothing else. Another reason for this is because @Bartender is producing some stunning natural resource variations at I didn't want them not to be used with the maritimes or this tree addon. So as long as he doesn't change the tree file, they will work together. Also, mods such as the Wild Flax mod will (should) also work with this as I don't modify the spawning code, just make sure you load this mod on top.

@Nilla yeah I actually liked the subtleness of the red maples so kept them in. Some variation is nice, as long as it is not too shocking. And I'm not discouraged... I'll just ignore you ;). Ok that was a joke, I'm working on balancing the pine set to make it better because things do need to be adjusted with it. I'm planning two more updates for it, a visual update with the new trees and improved resources, then a balancing update. Then it should be somewhat finished.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: elemental on March 25, 2017, 02:51:45 PM
Do you have any plans to release these trees as a set of decorative town trees? That would be very nice.  :)

Also, have you made a forester that plants only your trees? I know that isn't needed when using your tree override mod, but it would be fun to have a planted forest of your trees on a map with vanilla trees (in other words, without the override tree mod).
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 25, 2017, 03:03:43 PM
@elemental yes, and yes!

I'm currently putting together a Maritimes Decorations pack full of ghost decorations. This will most definitely include these trees, and also most raw materials too so you can decorate markets and docks and things. I always enjoyed that about CC.

As for the foresters, the Pine Set is currently being upgraded to include these new trees for the two foresters included in that.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Bartender on March 26, 2017, 06:44:45 AM
I just tested our compatibility @Necora; my mushrooms and your trees give an absolutely lush forest feeling. Once I'm done with the herbs and everything else this is going to be amazing.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 26, 2017, 09:32:14 AM
@Bartender that is really cool. Now we need some ground coverings and low shrubbery!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 27, 2017, 06:19:04 PM
The visual update to the pine set is nearing completion. So far, I have re-made all raw materials with new models, textures, and sprites so they look more continuous and, well, just better. I have also tackled the natural resources to add more variety, proper models for some, and better representations for others. Here are a few...


Cranberry bush...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Cranberry.jpg.517d901a01b6381e28257d4ef64b06a7.jpg)

Fiddleheads...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Fiddleheads.jpg.c0f1d0063da56d63701ea5778380f995.jpg)

Rabbit/Fox hole (two types, 1 model)...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Hole.jpg.f5f8cf5738fa8eaa62109a52944b7ff3.jpg)

Maple Sap - now appears as tapping buckets!...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/MapleSap.jpg.302922787390c238c3b3907b9f59d7d3.jpg)

As does the pine resin...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Resin.jpg.701dd82f7874a66b3e51ef74062e0d2d.jpg)

Dead fall trap! There are others too but they don't show up...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Trap1.jpg.23e1f44854c40c839e51a4ed872e6e11.jpg)

Apples...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Apple.jpg.2713726039199e728c7b5dffb8cd2899.jpg)

Blueberry bush...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Blueberry.jpg.ac15259c4f224b643eb18cb210ed9501.jpg)

Pine boughs (the variants won't show up)...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Bough.jpg.6d7b1b6ce7cc2b0b9dfdbb91f71b1bde.jpg)

And finally, the chanterelles...
(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_03/Chanterelle.jpg.2e59840f7a377b722b46674331a68944.jpg)

So how will they appear in game? Well, there are three sets, with some cross over. Here is the break down...

Wild/Vanilla - Spawned naturally and also by the vanilla forester. All food resources collected by the vanilla gatherer.

Herbs (vanilla)
Onion (vanilla)
Roots (vanilla)
Mushroom (vanilla)
Beaver Lodge - collected by trapper, produces 'Pelt' (textile).
Blueberry bush - new model, produces 'Blueberry' (fruit).
Chanterelle patch - produces 'Chanterelle' (vegetable).
Cranberry bush - produces 'Cranberry' (fruit).
Fiddlehead fern - produces 'Fiddlehead' (vegetable).
Fox Hole - collected by trapper, produces 'Fur' (textile).
Nest - collected by trapper, produces 'Eggs' (protein).
Rabbit Hole - collected by trapper, produces 'Game' (protein).

Pine Set - Spawned by the trees planted by the pine forester. Collected by the pine harvester.

Bough - produces 'Pine Bough' (material).
Chanterelle patch - produces 'Chanterelle' (vegetable).
Flax - produces 'Flax' (textile).
Nest - collected by trapper, produces 'Eggs' (protein).
Pine tap - produces 'Pine Resin' (material).
Trap - collected by trapper, produces 'Wild Animal' (textile).

Maple Set - Spawned by the trees planted by the maple forester. Collected by the maple forager.

Apple - produces 'Apple' (fruit).
Blueberry bush - new model, produces 'Blueberry' (fruit).
Cranberry bush - produces 'Cranberry' (fruit).
Maple tap - produces 'Maple Sap' (inedible fruit).
Nest - collected by trapper, produces 'Eggs' (protein).
Trap - collected by trapper, produces 'Wild Animal' (textile).
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: ancientmuse on March 28, 2017, 07:00:31 AM
Ooooo... love the look of all your new models, very realistic !

The maple taps are just like the real deal.  I think now with your addition of the new forest and models I'm going to set up all your Maritime mods into a whole new game folder so that I can have a Canadian "frontier" Banished all on its own... it'll make for a beautiful new environment with true authenticity !

I did that for Colonial Charter, Nordics North, and Banished 1.0.7 (in case the new update was buggy).  But this way I can pick and choose which Banished style I want to play depending on my mood.  LOL

So now I'll have 4 desktop shortcuts for 4 different Banished game styles instead of my current 3.


Thank you so much for all these new additions and updates you're throwing at us !

Happy dance !

;D

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 28, 2017, 08:54:45 AM
Looks very nice!

Just one small suggestion: As i tested your mods, it was quite obvious, that the maple forest gives very much food, so does a vanilla forest but the pine forest only chanterell (great addition), otherwise only materials. It's also  less productive than the other types of forests. I was never in Canada, but if a Canadian pineforest work like a Scandinavian forest, there also ought to be some berries to be found. In fact, in my neighborhood, you find the most blueberries in pine forests. My favourite blueberry location is a beautiful pine forest, not far away from where I live. :) But as far as I know, the American blueberries and the European are not quite the same fruit, so maybe your kind doesn't grow in pine forests.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on March 28, 2017, 11:57:53 AM
@ancientmuse that's great. Hopefully the next pine set update with all of these goodies will not be too far away, I just want to run it through a few times more and perhaps modify a couple of the buildings.

@Nilla well, it depends, and varies a lot. It is as much about the general environment as the tree type. Around my house, I live in the forest, it is dominated by spruce, fir, and white pine with a mix of aspen. The only thing I know of that you can harvest, and I do, is chanterelles. But I'm sure if you went to the other side of the valley there would be different flora in a similar forest. A lot of things depend on the direction of the slope, proximity to water etc. There are a few patches of wild strawberries about. The most blueberries and cranberries come from more shrubby and mixed forests it seems.

The reason for different tree sets was more for functionality rather than natural representation, and so they were set up to produce specific resources, so the pine set primarily for the resin and boughs, and the maple for the maple sap. The pine forester was never intended to have food, just materials, but I added chanterelles for the closest match and to give a little bit of food. If I add too many things then the gatherers will become too powerful. I do need to increase the flax output though, that is far too low at the moment.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on March 29, 2017, 03:57:03 AM
I don't think you have to be worried about overproduction in the pine forest, if you would add berries to it. The reason, I suggests this is the opposite; to give someone like me, who build based on efficiency a better reason to have pineforests in my settlements. Maybe you could also concider to make a pine forest produce more logs than a maple forest.

As always this is my opinion, based on my way of playing.

Why would I build a pine forest?
- It's beautiful.
- It gives more diversity and new production chains
- The buildings from the new production chains look good and fit well together.

Why wouldn't I build a pine forest?
- It's less productive then a vanilla or a maple forest. (I have some numbers from my last game, gather in a pine forest collects a value of 500-700, maple forest 1200-1500, vanilla ~1000)
- It doesn't produce anything of great interest.
  -- I do like to give my people my favourites; the chanterelles but like other mushrooms, it looks like they are heavy and take a lot of space in the stores.There are som many other interesting vegetables as alternative.
  -- Flax can be used to make rope, but to a big loss. I'll rather sell the flax and buy the rope.
  -- Charcoal makes a decent profit and can be used to process maple sap to syrup but this is a loss. I'll rather sell the sap.
  -- Charcoal can be used to produce whiskey. The production site is rather profitable but the profit is "eaten away", because some of the syrup is consumed as food. If I want alcohol; vanilla recipe, is easier and much more profitable.
  -- All other possible products are for export only but the profit is much too low, to make them interesting export businesses.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: taniu on March 29, 2017, 04:19:44 AM
@ Necora.Llove the look of all your new models, very realistic !Great idea split into different varieties of forests and resources to make more choices in the game :)I love the woods :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on March 29, 2017, 06:03:11 AM
@Necora wow, so many choices and all look so good :)  Can't wait to try them.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 06:45:02 AM
Pine set is updated! Enjoy and let me know what you think.

I've also been working on updating the NS Inshore fisheries, adding a new concept. I managed to make the iron mine code work for another building, in this case a boat. I've turned the NS Inshore fishing buildings into just a dory that sits on a 1x1 square. It employs 1 person, and needs a dory to build. Once built, you will get about 2000 units of lobster, shrimp, tuna, mackerel, or herring over the course of 2 years. Then, it will run out and you'll need to buy a new boat.

The reason for doing this is so that the dory resource has more of a use rather than for just building something then as trade only. The problem was, that the dory has such a high value, that it is hard to make it as a consume produce of Dory = Lobster in the existing buildings as I'd have to change the lobster high/low to something like 500/550 to make it worth while. That would either mean adding a second lobster resource, or messing up other mods that use the lobster resource. Also, as it is now just a boat, it doesn't seem so bad to demolish and rebuild an entire building every time it runs out.

This also means I can now add traps and nets to the build requirements, so you'll need a boat and some nets to go get your fish, which will need to be replaced every few years. I was hesitant at adding a trap builder for the main reason of limited application of traps.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on April 01, 2017, 07:38:36 AM
This is n interesting idea...   question: Will the boat automatically pull another boat from inventory every two years or will we have to manually re-buy it?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 07:53:29 AM
It works the same as the iron mine so will have to me manually re-built. I'm not sure if there is a way to do it otherwise.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 01, 2017, 08:52:27 AM
To me it sounds like a good idea, too. As long as the trouble/expense of the dory pays off. It would be nice, if there was a possibility like an upgrade, instead of rebuilding the whole fisher. You say, that you use the concept of the mine. At least in the earlier versions of the CC mod, you could upgrade the mines by using some more material and candles/lamp oil. Maybe something like that, with your lobster fisher, too; a possibility to upgrade, with the help of a boat. But I guess it's probably only upgradable once or a few times and that wouldn't really solve the problem.

In any case, of cause, I will test your upgrades. Looking forward on it. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 10:13:33 AM
@Nilla yeah I tried that. The mod kit gets stuck in an infinite loop and dies. You can upgrade to a new building fine, but you can't upgrade to itself. I guess the same would happen if you had two versions and upgraded between them, it would just get stuck in a loop trying to build each one. That is why the final mine in CC was infinite. But then, having the fishing building as just a boat that requires a dory and some nets to build means that destroying the whole thing each time is less of a hassle and doesn't look so bad as destroying a huge building for it. About the pay off, right now I have it so that you get about 2000 lobster etc. per build, and it should take you about a year to produce. The Dory is currently values at 100, and the amount of flax or hemp needed to make the rope has been reduced to like 20 and 25. I've still to play around with it, but it might be good for a beta test soon, depending on how long it takes me to update all of the resources in this mod.

It also means I can re-purpose the current buildings as other production buildings.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 11:52:59 AM
There are now 5 boats, one for each species. Currently, they need 1 dory to build, but I think I will also have some other things like traps and nets to make it more interesting. Can add some new things to the blacksmith and a new building as a net maker and a trap maker. Also gives a use for some of the now empty buildings from this set.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 12:09:12 PM
And here it is for a BETA test if anyone is interested. Let me know how easy/hard it is to complete the chain, and if the output/how long the boats last is suitable.

This is not compatible with save games that have the current NSInshore package loaded, as buildings have been removed and behind the scenes things changed. It should be fully compatible with all other mods, and does need a dock set of some form to give access to the boats.

Oh and let me know how long they do last, a year? 2 years? More? What do you think is reasonable?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 01, 2017, 01:33:45 PM
I'm sorry to say: I had two crashes after I downloaded the upgraded Pine mod. (not this new fisher).

I have no idea why it happened. I stared a new game and played 4-5 years. The first crash happened as I was building a small dory. I can't imagine, that it has anything to do with the crash. I started the game again. The crash didn't occur at the same time but a little later, as I wasn't building anything except a house.

The latest building of the "new" is the pelt tailor. But it has produced pelt coats for a while, so I don't think it's to blame. The maple forest and its gatherer also ran without problem for a while. The
pine forest is new, less than ½ year; it's only a forester in that forest so far. No idea if he could cause the crash.

I have quite a few other mods from Red and Kid loaded as well but not much built. All the new 1 0 7 versions. I can't think of any real conflicts even if the modlist is red, red, red.

I will start a new game, disable all mods except yours @Necora and make more or less the same, as I made in this game. I'll tell you later how it went.

I don't think it's a good idea to test your new fisher at the moment. I will see if I can find something out here first.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 01, 2017, 01:44:12 PM
NILLA,are you playing with or without the new tree mod added?? i was wondering if the wild animals setup was linked to those trees.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 01, 2017, 02:49:24 PM
I play with this new trees. You may be on to something there @brads3. Maybe they doesn't belong together with the new pine mod.

And now I'm pretty sure, that there's something with the pine forest, that causes the crash. I did as I said; started a new game, only @Necora´s mods. I built a pine forest early this time and the game crashed, maybe ½ year after it was built, about the same time as the first game.

I will disable the new trees and make a new try.

Edit: I'm pretty sure, you found the reason @brads3. I disabled the new trees mod but there are still theses new trees on the map, so I guess there's something there, that causes the crash.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 01, 2017, 03:16:21 PM
nope its the pine mod itself. i couldn't get the tree mod to load but also had error with the pine mod. it did run thru a year before the crash.trapper never collected anything. hunter was working and a maple forester. way the write up reads, the trapper should collect even in a vanilla forest. wonder if it has to be placed above CC? or if it had been designed to work with the new trees exclusively. since we both crash out, that isn't the answere.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 03:22:27 PM
@Nilla thanks for reporting it so quick, sorry about the crash. Same to you @brads3.

If it is due to the pine forest, there should not be an issue with the trees mod. The tree mod only has a small portion of the vanilla tree file in it, to override the models. Nothing else. However, if you use the tree mod with the pine set, then it will simply over write the vanilla tree file with... the exact same line of code... so I have no idea why that should be impacting the pine set as they are different tree files and not related to each other.

The trapper should collect resources from all three forest types, if it has not got anything maybe there is nothing there...

I don't see why it should conflict with CC unless you are also using one of the special starts with their own tree sets.

I'll have a dig through the files and see if something comes up. Let me know if the crashes continue.

Is there any error message associated with them?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 01, 2017, 03:32:08 PM
i was using just a CC medium+ start so nothing fancy. the way your description of the changes to the trapper sounded like the animals would be added and appear on the map in normal forests. that is where i wonder if the error is since i had not colleccted any.i left the trapper work thinking maybe the animals would appear over time. half the trappers circle did overlap a maple forest but that also had only been started for less than a year.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 03:46:05 PM
So the first good news is that I managed to replicate it. Not sure how, but it is to do with the pine forest some how. I can't believe I missed it....
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 04:16:53 PM
So I am stumped... I have no idea what could be causing this crash. I'll have to keep investigating. Sorry everyone.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 05:01:31 PM
i have narrowed it down to a spawning issue regarding the pine forest set, but I have no idea what.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 05:12:36 PM
I ditched half the natural resources from the pine set, leaving only those that are also in other sets. It seems to work fine, all are spawning.

So that means the issue is with either flax, bough, or resin. I have my money on flax. I'm going to add them back in 1 by 1 and see which one causes the crash.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 05:28:21 PM
I think it is the flax... making a few adjustments now.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 01, 2017, 05:47:42 PM
OK I found the issue!

So I made a last minute change to the wild flax to try to get it to increase spawn chance. Turns out that a spawn chance of .9 is too high, the game doesn't like that. I made it .4, and it seems to work fine.

I'll do some more testing and load a fix this eve or tomorrow.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 02, 2017, 02:22:18 AM
Good job @Necora. That must have been a tricky one to find.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 02, 2017, 08:58:28 AM
@Nilla and everyone else, thanks for your patience. The mod has finally uploaded and should be good to go.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 02, 2017, 09:14:21 AM
Than you! I will try it. I made a save before I build the pine forester on my last attempt and played a bit more without any pine forest.

A brief report from testing your inshore fisher;

I bought some boats and used 2 of them to catch lobster and mackerel. They started early autumn and produced 470/520 that first year. Next year they ran the whole year; 1120/1090. Both boats went useless in early summer the following year. It took a little less than 2 years.

A dory costs 125 if ordered, so the cost compared to 2000 food isn't high. I find, more than 1000 food each year is a bit too high. If you would let it take 3 or 4 years, the output would be like other fisher. I would find that more reasonable. Or maybe as you've suggested, that you need something more, than the boat, to start the fishing trip, that takes down the profit; like some fishing tools. I would like that.

Two small requests; is it possible to make a demolish button in the menu (like the one you use on the pine chopper). I "missed" the demolishing at first and tried to demolish the close dock instead of the old boat. It also looks a bit as odd, as  the fisher stands on the boat with a hack, trying to hack in the water. Maybe we can pretend, that it's a boathook and he's just getting something out of the water, I don't know. I guess it would look better, if the fisher just stands on his boat without tools, like a tailor, as if he just returned from his long trip to the sea. Don't know if it's possible.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on April 02, 2017, 10:38:41 AM
hey @Necora , sorry I have not tried pine set or dory yet but both look really good.  I would think that the food output should be high to justify having to build a dory which requires resources and space and a worker for a dory that has a limited life span.  If anything raise the price of buying the dory, 125 is way too low especially for a special order, maybe 500 trade units, otherwise why build your own dory?  I also think requiring the dory alone is enough of a needed item for this fisher.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 02, 2017, 11:45:53 AM
Thanks for the feedback.

@Abandoned the dory is different from earlier versions of this mod, and has a decent profit if you make them yourselves. I decreased the resources needed to make rope and increased the value of the dory from 75 to 100 so now it is something like this with an educated worker and using hemp for rope and pine boughs for pitch...

20 Hemp (total value = 20) = 2 Rope (total value = 70) resulting in a + 50 profit.
4 Wood (T.V. = 8) = 5 Lumber (T.V. = 10) resulting in a +2 profit.
3 Pine Boughs (T.V. = 3) = 4 Pine Pitch (T.V. = 16) resulting in a + 13 profit.

4 Lumber + 2 Rope + 2 Pitch (T.V. = 94) = 2 Dory (T.V. = 200) resulting in a + 106 profit.

Then currently it is 1 Dory = 2,000 food over the course of 2 years.

So it is not a bad chain even if you want to just trade away your Dory at the end of it.

@Nilla I have made some tools. I made fishing nets, traps, lines, and tackle. All have the same value, and all need the same value resources (but different things) and I made 4 so that there is variation for different types of fish (traps for lobsters, tackle for tuna, nets for shrimp and herring, and lines for mackerel). I coded it up as an extra build cost, so you need 1 dory and 10 nets (or others) to make the boat. I think each net combination has a value of 4, so that makes a 140 input for the fishing. I am not sure about it though, and might experiment with the nets as consumables rather than build costs. What do you think?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 02, 2017, 02:07:28 PM
I had to buy the dories, because the pineforest with flax crashed and my ordered flax seed didn't arrive. Now I have loaded the fixed version and the first thing I will do, is to build a pine forest, than we will see further.

I find it good, that's it no longer a loss to produce rope and dories. Until I've tested and seen how high the production is, I can say nothing to the profit. The values for rope and dories, seems to be quite high; 25 profit for one rope and 53 for one dory. But if you only can produce a few of them each year, it might be alright. I will give it a test.

To the nets and other equipments for the fishing boats: I don't think it's a good idea to let this equipment be consumed as a production input. It's like a boat. You can use the same for a long time. From time to time, some of it is broken or get lost and has to be replaced. Not principally more often than the boat. I would prefer it, to be a construction material. If you want an input for these fisher, some fish would be better. To catch the lobster or big fish you'll need a bait. It could cost 2 fish to get 10 lobster or something like that.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 02, 2017, 04:19:33 PM
is the alternative link for the pine set updated? thank you
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 02, 2017, 05:00:50 PM
sorry @brads3 I can't do it today because my internet is too slow, it took me about 5 hours to upload the one to dropbox.

I'll put it up first thing in the morning when I get to work and have decent internet again :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on April 03, 2017, 04:39:20 AM
@Necora , Is the link for the dory beta on BL forum still for the fishing boats that don't require nets or tackle or has the link already been updated?  Did I miss the original beta without those requirements?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 03, 2017, 04:44:12 AM
@brads3 the google drive link has been added. You can download here...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B2nh4ixEBQ-kT1R3Y2tSZExLUzQ/view?usp=sharing

@Abandoned The beta link is still the original one I put up, so without the nets etc.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on April 03, 2017, 04:48:09 AM
@Necora oh great, thanks.  All these sets look great and I really liked the dock set and PEI that I tried. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 03, 2017, 06:48:28 PM
NECORA,i have bad news. turpentine still is broken. won't take charcoal so i switched it to firewood. same problem,worker carries fuel around but never sets it to the still.also the  charcoal is tagged to be furnace fuel but adds up with the firewood. i upgraded my CC the other day because before your charcoal appeared to be right and the cc conflicted with it. i'm not getting apples like before,might even be too low now.what price did you set the pelt coats to? they are trading out at 15,same as a hidecoat. fur coats are at 65. are you sure the trapper will harvest from a vanilla forest? mine is half on a maple forest and half off and i'm getting about 65 furs and pelts. also,what does the beaver lodges look like? i haven't noticed any. i do have traps and foxholes.whatever you did,your mod changes all the trees.the bark trunks look completely different even in the vanilla forests.i couldn't load the  tree mod either.so it is the pine mod affecting my trees.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 04, 2017, 04:47:31 AM
Hi @brads3 .

Re. Turpentine, I think there might be a conflict with CC there, and also a mistake in the template file of the turpentine still. Firstly, the mistake - there is no firewood flag in the turpentine still. This means that firewood cannot be currently used to make the turpentine, so you have to use Charcoal for now. I think, however, CC might have charcoal flagged as a 'Wood Fuel' the same as firewood. The charcoal in the Pine Set is a 'Industrial Fuel', so custom flag 3. You will have to load up the Pine Set above CC in order for it to accept charcoal in the still (and other thing that need charcoal to burn).

Re. apples - yeah I managed to decrease those quite a bit as previously you were getting thousands. So now they should be inline with other products from the gatherers, I was aiming at 200-300 per food item. What numbers did you get? Now I know how to slow them down a bit I can play with them more to optimize the amount of apples gathered.

Re. trapping. The beaver lodges will only spawn in vanilla forests, as will the fox holes and rabbit holes. They look like a 3D triangle of sticks, and are quite large so you should see them. The trapper will pick up fox holes, rabbit holes, beaver lodges, nests, and three types of trap. The traps are only spawning in the maple and pine forests, and the others are all in the vanilla forest only. So if the trapper is picking up anything, it is working fine. Again, if you have CC above this set in the load order, then that will be why you don't see certain things from the vanilla forests as I am sure that CC changes this to add their own resources like the wild domesticated animal resource. If you load the pine set above CC, then you will get everything in the vanilla forest, but won't have the CC stuff that is spawned. There is not much I can do about that unfortunately, because the game is limited in what we can modify with natural resources.

Re. Pelts - each pelt is valued at 10, and they are made into pelt clothing valued at 15. This is the same as the vanilla leather = leather coat chain.

Re. Trees - this mod adds the new tree set to the game, so you don't need both. The tree mod only replaces tree models from vanilla, which are included in the pine set. There should be no issue with this, it is just not necessary to have both. I would assume that the tree set is conflicting more with CC than this set, so it will need to be above CC to see the new trees. That, however, should not effect the wild resources that CC has added because it only replaces the tree models, nothing else. But I do have to test this to see.

What do you mean the bark trunk looks different? The whole tree should look different... and there should be no vanilla trees. Can you share a screen shot?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 07:14:20 AM
Something just happened, that never happened before! ;D :D ;D I use to write long texts, but this is the first time I got a warning, that it's too big to be published! So this is the first part. To be continued!  :-[ :P

I play without CC and haven't any problems with the turpentine or charcoal. As far as I can see, they both produce fine.

I will tell you about my impressions so far. I guess this will be long. I will copy your description of the changes and say something to each.

Quote
New Content - Various Tools - 3 new types of tool have been added to the pine blacksmith. These are 1 - Bough Tools made from pine boughs and have half the durability of iron tools Need 2 pine boughs to produce. 2 - Pitched tools, which are basically iron tools treated with pitch for added grip and durability. These have the same durability and value of vanilla steel tools, and require 2 wood, 2 iron, and 2 pine pitch to produce. 3 - Twine handled tools. These are iron tools with twine handles for added grip and durability. Again, they have the same durability and value as vanilla steel tools, and need 2 wood, 2 iron, and 2 twine to produce.
Very good change! It's good to have a better use for the raw material of the pine forest.

So far I've tested Pitched tools (PT) and Twine handled tools (TT). I make pitch and charcoal, so I haven't had any bough to spare for tools. I also think it's more something you only need in an emergency, when you're running out of tools and have too little iron. It's good to have such a possibility.

I like all these opportunities. We all know, that's a bit tricky to make steeltools (unless you use a mod that prevent people from using the coal as fuel). Here you can make durable tools in another way. The cost are the same (TT) or a little less (PT) than steeltools. (You forgot to say in the description, that your "recipe" gives 2 tools each). But it's compensated by the productivity of your blacksmith. It's less than vanilla numbers. I produced around 70 high quality tools each year. Good balancing!

QuoteNew Content - Canvas and Linen Clothing - Two new clothing option, canvas or linen clothing. These are made by the pine tailor, and take 2 canvas or 2 linen to produce, depending on the type. They have the same value and warm as vanilla leather and wool coats.

Again; it's good to have more use of the material from the pine forest.

I haven't made much "vegan" clothing. The productivity of the loom is low. I produced around 60 linen each year and you have to have several or wait some years to supply one tailor. I will not say, that this is a bad thing. Weaving is slow. The profit of one linen is 4, for the weaver ~240. It's too low, to be a good export good but enough, if you produce to use yourself. The tailor seem to have "vanilla" values. That's reasonable. Balancing good. (Unless you want linen to be a good export product.)

Here I must say one thing, that doesn't really belong to the pine set. I happened to buy some hemp seeds. I don't think you made it yourself, but the productivity is extremely high. A field produces the double amount of normal crops. That means, one farmer can easily produce 1500 hemp, worth 3000 each year. Maybe this is a "special" kind of hemp.  :-\  A society can live good just from exporting hemp. To me, that's not a good balancing.  :(

Quote
New Content - Furriers Hut - A new building which employs a tailor to produce clothing and coats out of pelts and fur.

New Content - Pelt and Pelt Clothing - A new resource, pelt, has been added as a lower value type of fur. This is produced by all trappers, and made into clothing at the Furriers Hut. The clothing from pelts have the same values as vanilla leather and wool coats.

New Content - Fur Coat - A new clothing option, fur coats, has been added. Made by the Furrier's Hut, these are very valuable coats that act as warm clothing.

Again; a good way to use the products from the trapper.

I like, that there are two categories of fur/pelt. One expensive for export, one cheaper for domestic use. From my point of view, it's historically correct. Furs/fur coats were an important trading good from forest areas with a lot of wild animals.

To give pelt/pelt clothes the same values as leather/hide coats is perfect. Similar use; similar process. But I find the fur coats overpowered. @RedKetchup has fur coats, too with this trade value, but you need 2 furs to make 1 coat. Yours only need 1 fur for 1 coat. That's a profit of 45 for one coat. I had annual production of 118-150 from my furrier. (I had much export goods and little things, I wanted to buy, so I only had 1 trapper, and not always a big surplus of fur/pelt, so with enough raw material, I guess that the productivity can get even higher). If we use 150, it means that the furrier makes a profit of  6750. That's much too high. Even if you have to take in account, that you'll never be able to sell all; a part of the coats will be consumed from your citizens as "normal" warm coats.

It's not good when two (or more) modders make the same product from the same raw material with different recipes/different profit. There are two ways to go; Necora, you change your production to Red´s recipe or Red changes his and you agree in setting a lower price on fur coats, Red´s profit of 25 from each coat is still good, but reasonable. I think I would prefere, that you change your production, Necora. It will make it a loss to produce fur coats to use yourself but it also gives you an interesting "mission"; trying to get as many fur coats as possible into the trading port, before they are "snitched" away.

QuoteNew Dynamic - Trapping and associated Natural Resources - The trapping chain has now changed. There are two new types of trapping mechanism. In vanilla forests, and the forest spawned at the start of the game, various wild animals occur. These include fox holes (fur), rabbit holes (game), nests (eggs), and beaver lodges (pelt). With the pine and maple forests, traps will spawn instead of these wild resources, apart from nest (eggs) which will still occur in pine forests only. There are three types of trap, each producing a different resource, game, fur, and pelt. The trapper can collect all of the above resources, and will collect slightly different things depending on the forest type you build it in. This change has negated the need for the skinner, as the trapper not produces all resources directly from the forest.

Removed Content - Skinner and wild animal resource - The skinner and wild animal resources are now redundant and have been removed.

This is an improvement. I didn't really liked the trapper/skinner chain. I only have one trapper in the vanilla forest so far, so I can't compare, how they work in the different forests, but I like the idea that it's different.

The production of the trapper is high and it variates a lot. I noted tradevalues between 2300 and 1200, average about 1700. The differens of cause, much dependent on how much fur and pelt there are. If we compare this with a normal hunter, who normally hunts between 2 and 4 deer each year, the tradevalue is in the same range.

more to come....... phu.....

Do I find it too much? The total output of a forest is higher with your mods, if you compare it to a vanilla game. That's for sure. But if you look at the area and compare it to farming; farms on the same spot (and now I'm not talking about hemp ;) ) would give more. Canada is a northern country, where you use the resources of a forest. So I find it good that way. Of cause, you still have the same possibilities of farming, as in a vanilla game. In combination, it makes the game easier. But you don't have to farm, if you want to play Canada pure. So I would say; no, it's not too much. The balancing is good.

Quote
Model Improvement - Raw Materials - The models of all raw materials have been improved, and re-textured for much better visual represetation.

Model Improvement - Natural Resources - The models of all natural resources have been changed to remove things like barrels in your forest and replace them with more natural things or items representing the work needed to get them. For example, Pine Resin now appears as a small collector bucket that would be stapled to a tree, and then turns into a barrel when harvested.

Model Improvement - Trees - All trees have been given brand new models!

UI Improvement - Raw Material Sprites - All raw materials have new sprites, which are small screen shots of themselves. This looks much better in the menu than the previous icons I was using.

I like it. (Though, you know, how I feel about the red trees, but I can live with them  :-\ I'm getting used.)

QuoteBalancing - Church - Pine church capacity increased to 50.

I don't use to build churches. To me they have no impact on the gameplay, a decorative item only. But 50 sounds reasonable for that small church.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 08:04:33 AM
QuoteBalancing - Pine Harvester - Rate of flax gathering increased.

Let's make a small calculation. You can use flax to make twine for tools, linen for clothes and rope. How much flax do you need for these three buildings?

I'll use my production numbers: 60 linen needs 60*2=120 flax and 60 twine need 5*60/4=75 flax. I didn't run the rope maker long with flax, after I got the hemp seeds. The ropemaker made about 50 rope each year, as I used the hemp, and the settlement was really flooded in hemp, so I guess, that with flax, you will hardly get more than 30. 30 rope need 30*15=450 flax. My two gatherers in the pineforest collected 160-304 flax, average about 250. I find that quite reasonable. You can run one spinner and one weaver and still get some spare flax for a few rope now and then (you will not need that many, and if you do, you will have to stop one or both textile sites or buy some seeds.)

Quote
Balancing - Maple Forager - Rate of apple gathering decreased, and rate of maple sap gathering increased.

It was a lot of apples, that's for sure. It's still the product with the highest output, but now it's more in the same range as the other.

I can only see one problem: It's not specific to apples but to balancing of the forests generally. I made some notes of the output in my 3 different forests. If we look at the gatherer: You have increased the number of resources, that a vanilla gatherer can collect. It also increases the total amount of food, that he produces. The output from the maple forest gatherer however is reduced, so the total output from a vanilla forest is higher, than from the other forests. (Unless the trapper is much more productive in the other forests) I'm not sure, that this is a good thing.
My numbers based on 5 different years.

Vanilla: 2484-2692 (average 2560)
Maple: 1409-1812 (average 1580)
Pine: 1120-1744 (average 1460)

2 gatherers in each, flax counts 2.

The pine forest is special, rather producing raw materials than food, but tell me, why should I "build" a maple forest?

QuoteBalancing - Pitch Kiln - Work required has been reduced, and the high/low create values of pine pitch have been increased.

Not really sure, what these changes mean in detail, but it sure produces more, about the double. I noted a production of 244-296, average 270. To produce 270 pitch/charcoal (it looks to be the same numbers) you need about 200 bough. It's even a little more than my forest produced. So you will not need more than 1 site to process all bough from one forest. It can be a coincidence the few years I looked, this forest produce less pine bough than pine resin. It used to be about the same. (average 190 pine bough, 280 pine resin). There's more use for bough than resin, so if it is a difference, I would prefere it to be the other way around.

I like, that you only need one site for one pine forest. But I think that the production may be a bit high. I switched between pitch and charcoal, produced pitch tools, dories, maple sirup and whiskey. Still I had more, than I could use in my stores. The profit is 3,25 for each charcoal/pitch or ~900 for the site. This makes, pitch and charcoal good to export. Is this your intention?

QuoteBalancing - Turpentine Still - Work required has been reduced, and the high/low create values of pine pitch have been increased.

My turpentine still produced about 150. For that it need about 110 resin, less than half of the annual production of the forest. It's a trade product only. One turpentine gives a profit of 2,25 or 340 for one site. It's a profit, but it's small; you need two raw material, one of them that has to be processed. I would have considered to run a turpentine still to this conditions, if I needed it for something, but not for export. It's easier to sell the resin.

The summary of my impressions: it makes a lot of fun to play with your mod. Almost everything changed is an improvement. The one big thing, that really ought to be changed, is the profit of the fur coats. (and hemp :-\) The other critics are more thoughts and questions to you, if things have turned out the way you want it to.

Thanks for your work!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 04, 2017, 09:24:11 AM
@Nilla thanks for the feed back. I'm glad you like it.

Hemp - yeah I noticed that too last night. It has to be included, because it is used in many buildings. But I'm not sure what I did that make a super crop... oops. It will be fixed.

Loom - there will be a faster mill version in the Sherbrooke set.

Fur/Fur coat - actually, the files I used are identical to the ones that @RedKetchup introduced... because they are his files... you need 2 fur for 1:2 (non-educated:educated) fur coats in both Red's mod and this furrier.
I personally find fur too expensive and powerful the way Red did it, and wanted it lower. But instead of making a change to Red's fur, I added pelts as another cheep option.

Foresters - in order to get the range of natural resources on the map at the start, I had to tag them onto the naturalresourcetree.rsc. This is the same file that the vanilla forester uses (other wise it would not cut down map trees) and so the resources are by default also spawned by that forester. This does have the side effect of making for a rather high powered forest set up. Unless I can think of a way of getting some resources to spawn like rocks and iron, so not impacted by the forest, I don't know what to do. I could remove some of the vanilla resources I suppose, but that would make other mods that add a version of the vanilla buildings useless, and I wanted them to be at least able to collect something from the forest. I will think of what I can do to change this. And you build a maple forest for the apples and maple sap which are not included in the vanilla trees.

I did find I got a lot of resin when I played through, so perhaps boughs can be increased and resin decreased.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 10:36:39 AM
Oh I'm sorry, I must have looked wrong as I checked the fur coats, I will play a little more tonight and look again.

I think, too 25 for each coat and a production of 150 is too high. It's 3750 each year. But in this case it's a bit special.  You will never get that profit (or unless you have many extra traders, just waiting for a coat to be produced, and than of cause you must count the extra manpower). I haven't looked in this game yet, how many really lands in the port. As I did it in my last game, using Red's tailor, it was about ½. The tailor was located close to the port, but the settlement quite large, with many diligent vendors, and the coats were spread fast over the map. But if we say that only 1/3 is used by the population: input 300*20=6000, output 100*65 (export) +50*20 (used as warm coats), it's a profit of the more reasonable 1500.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 10:54:55 AM
didn't say the trees looked bad. they are different. the leaves and colors have changed. your trunks are more defined or prominate. they seem to stand out more in your mod.i wasn't expecting the mod to change all the trees.
   its odd how a mod can override another mod and other times it won't when you think it should. there are a few mods that do that. the blacksmith tool mod is like that. i can place it high in the list and it will only affect specific blacksmiths but not all of them. it seems the pine mod did change the piles of iron ore also.
   i will test it above CC.i'm wondering what other problems will occur.in CC, charcoal can be used to make furnace fuel and process iron ore into iron. if there is a conflict between the pine and CC, how many buildings won't work properly? i did see some of those before. set a building working and leave it,only to find it wasn't producing stuff i needed. i had a group of nomads come in and my builders were busy trying to get wwork places and houses built for them.after a while i noticed there were buildings not being finished.after that map i upgraded the new CC. i thought that would fix the issues and conflicts.
     i think i need to let my foresters plant longer. i tried to leave the maple forester and then the pine to plant and cut for 5years and then turn them off. i think 8 years growth would give better outputs to the gatherers. i guess i do that so 1 workerr can plant several forests.  i set a vanilla gatherer and then overlap part of the circle 1 side with a maple forest and the other with a pine forest,each with their own gatherer.this way the vanilla gatherer is picking up the normal spawned items and they aren't left. i think overall i get better numbers that way. the vanilla gatherer might drop down some but together  the total is more. and you get a good variety also. my concern was the game would try to spawn the vanilla items and the new items at the same time.so you have 2 sets of items competing for limited number of spaces.
    the way the pine mod's forest work now seems good overall. they don't take away from the vanilla items this way. the gatherer could pick up more types of items but then i'm afraid we would get less of each item. if it could collect the same as now+ "x"amount of 2 more items added to the total than yeah that might work. i think  NILLA'S idea is to increase the yield per pickup of the maple and pine forests by 25% for all items. that way the balance is the same but the total is closer to a vanilla forest.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 11:49:53 AM
I'm sorry to say, I just checked: My furrier uses 2 furs for 2 fur coats.  And I'm sure, that last time I played; Red's tailor needed 2 furs for 1 one coat. Something must have gone wrong as you copied the values.

And Brads; I didn't had any idea about increasing/decreasing any pickups. I just pointed out the difference. Of cause, if Necora finds it important, that the output is similar in all types of forest, it's an option to increase the output of the pine and maple forest. But there are others as well.

And don't I think your idea with overlapping gatherers is that good (if I understood it right). The gatherers will partly compete about the same resources, but try it, maybe it will work.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 04, 2017, 12:39:32 PM
@Nilla I don't know what to tell you, go check the files for yourself, red's resource files are here http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1607.0 and I can guarantee you his files are identical to mine, as used these exact ones with no changes. It is also in his mod description...
Quote- new tailor patterns : 1 fur + 1 leather = winter coat, 2 furs = fur coat.
There is no mistake, unless @RedKetchup has changed these numbers since he uploaded the files to google drive and as a recent update to the mod that I have missed, but as they are right now, an uneducated worker will make 1 coat from 2 furs, and an educated worker will make 2 coats from 2 furs in both mods.

@brads3 oh haha the way you said it I thought something went wrong. That's OK then!

Pine mod changes iron ore?? It shouldn't.... I didn't touch iron.

I will have a good look through the CC set up and see. From what I gather, any of my resources will be able to be used in CC buildings, regardless of storage flag, because of the way @kralyerg coded the CC buildings (I think I might do the same for mine to avoid conflicts). This means that as long as the pine set is above CC in the load order, all resources should be usable in all buildings.

As for forests, resources should start spawning from a tree when the tree is about 8 months old. So the more trees you have older than 1 year, the more resources will be spawning in the forest. I cut down large swaths of forest when I build a new one, so that there is no competition (a specific set forester will ignore trees from another set due to how the game is coded). But to start the game, the vanilla forester will grow and harvest trees already on the map without needing to clear any space.

I'll have a look at numbers from a game I've been running for a few years and see how they match up with yours. No doubt play stile has a large impact here, but I am definitely up for changing the balance of the outputs to make them fair.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
i have tried to use a vanilla gatherer a few times. i think i get more this way. my understanding is the game is placing random items from both the pine set mod's list and the vanilla list at the same time.thus if it sets down a ginger or root,the pine gatherer will leave them on the ground. so in the ciforester circle you have both sets of items mixed.my overall totals with the vanilla gatherer +a maple and a pine gatherer is more than if i left out the vanilla gatherer.plus i have the advantage of collecting food while the pine and maple forest is getting planted and some growth.i understand your thinking that i am taking away from the maple and pine items. my belief is the game places those items as it places the new items. i could be wrong but my understanding of the program is the map sets the vanilla items on the map where there are forests.the gatherer doesn't decide what items appear. the new forests add items to the list of items being generated in its circle. hence with or without the maple forest the game spawns vailla items. with the maple forest the game spawns from both the vanilla list and the maple forest list. the maple forest items don't replace the vanilla so it isn't maple sap instead of roots or apples instead of ginger.the game program could place sap here and the next space place a root or ginger.those items appear anyhow but the maple gatherer won't collect them. without the vanilla gatherer those items just get  left and the deer eat them in the winter. NILLA, try adding a vanilla gatherer to your maple set and see if you find a big change in your numbers.my theory is the vanilla gatherer will pick up items but the maple gatherer should pick up the same as now.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 12:55:34 PM
NECORA, u bring up an interesting point that i should test. you are saying a normal forester will not cut down your trees. that is odd. a forester goes into the woods and cuts trees,his objective is make logs. now i have heard the forester has been known to cut down orchards. am i reading what you posted wrong?furthermore under some starts,i have not tested all,your mods override CC and changes the trees anyhow.it would be nice if the vanilla foresters did not cut down the apples and maples or pines.i could overlap circles more.
   NILLA and i had a discussion about tree gowth before.my way is to plant the new trees for 5years and then turn the forester off,so he doesn't cut down any of the new trees. then i turn on my maple gatherer and it should produce good and collect consistantly from year to year.only if the tree age and die should my numbers fall off.i seem to find good production and balance if i leave the forester to plant for 5 -8 years and then turn it off.usijng the forever tree mod the trees should not die either.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 01:16:38 PM
 
Quote from: Necora on April 04, 2017, 12:39:32 PM
@Nilla I don't know what to tell you, go check the files for yourself, red's resource files are here http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1607.0 and I can guarantee you his files are identical to mine, as used these exact ones with no changes. It is also in his mod description...
Quote- new tailor patterns : 1 fur + 1 leather = winter coat, 2 furs = fur coat.
There is no mistake, unless @RedKetchup has changed these numbers since he uploaded the files to google drive and as a recent update to the mod that I have missed, but as they are right now, an uneducated worker will make 1 coat from 2 furs, and an educated worker will make 2 coats from 2 furs in both mods


I understand nothing from modding and the files, so I can't say anything about what is changed, when. I can only check the result. I just built Red's tailor from the training camp. Like I remembered from my last game, his tailor needs 2 furs for 1 coat, (or rather 4 furs for 2 coats) just as he says in your quote; "1 fur + 1 leather = winter coat, 2 furs = fur coats" and as you say; yours make 2 coats from 2 furs. I have only educated people. So, I'm 100% sure, your tailor needs the half amount of furs, compared to his!

Quote from: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 12:40:04 PM
the maple forest items don't replace the vanilla so it isn't maple sap instead of roots or apples instead of ginger.the game program could place sap here and the next space place a root or ginge

I'm pretty sure it is. It's just at the beginning, as you're establishing the new kind of forest, that you can have both. As soon as the original trees are gone, the original resources are gone, too. Now I guess a vanilla gatherer will get something to pick also in pine and maple forests. In the new version they also pick cranberries and chanterell. But I see no sense in making it double, the maple/pine forester also picks cranberries/chanterell, so they would only compete about the resources. But if it pleases you, I can put a vanilla forester in each forest to see what will happen.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 01:51:39 PM
I have tested a vanilla gatherer in my pine and maple forest. It was quite as I thought it would be. The gatherer collects a little cranberries, blueberries and chantarell and somehow the gatherer in the pine forest managed to find a little fiddlehead. It might be the sama as a hunter. If he´s working, he might kill a deer way out of his circle if one is unlucky enough, to cross his path. I guess this gatherer walked across a fiddlehead on his way home to eat, and couldn´t resist picking it. 

You can see the numbers in the screenshot and compare it to the normal vanilla gatherers below. It´s hard to say, if the output from the specific gatherer are less than usual. It varies a lot from year to year. I guess it is a bit.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on April 04, 2017, 02:06:17 PM
nice to see many greenhouses in your screenshot @Nilla ^^
what was the numbers during that time to compare the huts ?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 02:10:23 PM
umm NILLA that is a vanilla gatherer from the mod set though. a normal vanilla gatherer won't harvest the new items.that would stop the competing factor.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 04, 2017, 02:35:46 PM
@Nilla right I see, the 4 fur input was the piece I was missing and didn't know about. I will change it for the next update. Oh and when you say something needs 2 for 1, I read that as the production consume/produce of the building, so the building takes 2 in. Next time, say it takes 4 for 2 and I'll instantly know what you mean ;)

@brads3 the way the forest works is as such... When you load a new map, it loads 1 tree file. That tree file tells the game what tree models will appear, what they will be harvested into, and what resources will spawn near them. In the case of the pine mod, the starting tree pack is 'vanilla' with new tree models. The following resources will be spawned...

Beaver Lodge, Blueberry, Cranberry, Chanterelle, Fiddlehead, Foxhole, Herb, Mushroom, Nest, Onion, Rabbithole, and Roots.

So these resources are spawned by the trees. If there is a tree, after a defined period of time, one of these resources will appear next to it. This tree file is also what you tell the forester to use in the forester template file. So the vanilla forester uses the vanilla tree file. He/she will go out and in their radius will harvest vanilla trees for wood, and re-plant them with trees from the same list. It is these trees that then spawn resources, which are the ones listed above.

I have introduced 2 more tree files, Pine and Maple. These are only linked to the specific pine and maple foresters. In these files are select trees and different resources. Now, if you build a pine forester, he/she will pretty much ignore trees that were spawned in another tree list (even if they are the same type). What they will do is cut these trees down to produce wood, but only to get them out of the way. They will be re-planted with the tree from that specific set. It is the same as how the forester will clear iron and stone from the radius to make room for trees. Think about it this way, the pine forester doesn't see the vanilla tree as a tree, but as something that is in the way and needs to be gotten rid of. If they go to plant a pine tree and find a vanilla tree in the way, the vanilla tree is harvested but replaced with a pine seedling. So over time, the forest in the radius will change from vanilla to pine.

The reason you still get vanilla resource in a pine forest is that there are still vanilla trees in there, or on the fringes of it, so they will spawn vanilla resources. But eventually once these trees are cut and replaced with pine trees, the vanilla resources will no longer spawn because there are no vanilla trees to spawn them. Some vanilla resources can spawn themselves, but I'm not sure how much that actually happens, I know I have self spawning turned off for most of my additions.

So if you build the vanilla gatherer next to a pine forester then for the first year or two you will get a lot of vanilla resources as there are a lot of vanilla trees to spawn them. But as the forest is changed to a pine forest, those resources will become less and ultimately none and the gatherer will only pick up the shared resources, in this case Chanterelles.

Oh, and the pine mod will also change the vanilla gatherer to harvest new items, but only the same ones as the vanilla gatherer cache, so the items listed in the vanilla tree file.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2017, 03:16:46 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on April 04, 2017, 02:06:17 PM
nice to see many greenhouses in your screenshot @Nilla ^^
what was the numbers during that time to compare the huts ?
I do love your greenhouses. And I´ve built more of them since I showed the screenshot. I´m doing some experimenting, not done yet, but I´ll tell you more tomorrow. I will also make some notes from the production.

Quote from: brads3 on April 04, 2017, 02:10:23 PM
umm NILLA that is a vanilla gatherer from the mod set though. a normal vanilla gatherer won't harvest the new items.that would stop the competing factor.

Sure, but he will find nothing to compete about, unless he stumbles on something on his way home. ;)

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: grammycat on April 04, 2017, 04:05:36 PM
Really enjoying the mods  and only 1 comment:  more apples!  They are too low now to make it worth using that forest over vanilla or CC's apple forester. Thank you for all your hard work Necora.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 06, 2017, 07:56:19 PM
Thanks @grammycat ! I'll see into the apples, perhaps I reduced them too much.

I have not had much time to create lately, got involved in a project at work at the last minute that has a rather impending deadline. Short story, I gotta take a lot of pictures of a lot of oyster shells very quick and process/analyse them all. But I do get to use some cool equipment like electron microscopes.

I have been thinking though, and had an idea back to the crystal cliffs goat pen discussion. I want to get the opinions of @RedKetchup , @Tom Sawyer , @kid1293 , and @anyoneelsewhoisinterested. Remember the goat discussion? We couldn't seem to come to a conclusion on the best way to deal with small structures like this. Kid1293 posted a cool pic of a small flower garden grower at red's WIP, and it reminded me of an idea I had a few weeks ago but ignored. What about, to make a small animal pen/pasture, but without the pasture, we have the hutch as a forester type building, who goes out and plants chickens or goats in a very small radius. These chickens or goats (trees) would spawn milk or eggs or what ever. They also have a longish life time and don't get chopped down (if we can do that - can you have a forester that only plants and doesn't harvest?) and just die of old age. Do you think something like this would work?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on April 06, 2017, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: Necora on April 06, 2017, 07:56:19 PM
Thanks @grammycat ! I'll see into the apples, perhaps I reduced them too much.

I have not had much time to create lately, got involved in a project at work at the last minute that has a rather impending deadline. Short story, I gotta take a lot of pictures of a lot of oyster shells very quick and process/analyse them all. But I do get to use some cool equipment like electron microscopes.

I have been thinking though, and had an idea back to the crystal cliffs goat pen discussion. I want to get the opinions of @RedKetchup , @Tom Sawyer , @kid1293 , and @anyoneelsewhoisinterested. Remember the goat discussion? We couldn't seem to come to a conclusion on the best way to deal with small structures like this. Kid1293 posted a cool pic of a small flower garden grower at red's WIP, and it reminded me of an idea I had a few weeks ago but ignored. What about, to make a small animal pen/pasture, but without the pasture, we have the hutch as a forester type building, who goes out and plants chickens or goats in a very small radius. These chickens or goats (trees) would spawn milk or eggs or what ever. They also have a longish life time and don't get chopped down (if we can do that - can you have a forester that only plants and doesn't harvest?) and just die of old age. Do you think something like this would work?

Just turn the forester to plant only :)
I love this idea, with some cool fencing, and it will look like a baby animal farm :D :D :D
Love!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Tom Sawyer on April 07, 2017, 06:12:26 AM
I think it would be a very strange gameplay with a herdsman placing goats on the ground and chopping trees btw. It also will look static and would not solve the problem of the not animated animal. So I'm not a fan of this idea but you can give it a try. Sometimes the feeling about an idea comes by doing it. And did you try to put the not animated goat in a pasture using the original livestock system? Does it work without animation? That would be my favorit.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on April 07, 2017, 06:23:50 AM
Try it! If it looks weird; it was an experiment, that didn't turn out well. If it works, it would be an alternative to the "normal" way of breeding lifestock. Alternatives are always good.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 08, 2017, 05:19:51 AM
I decided to try out some of the awesome mods from @kid1293 lately, the wild west one in particular. I thought they would go really good with my stuff, so randomly placed a mix of buildings from the two. The biggest thing that sticks out, literally, is there is a huge size/scale difference between the two styles that makes them not blend as well together as I was hoping. I had dreams of such beautiful towns.

So my question, is this just a consequence of many modders with their own styles, and something that players like and are used to, or have I done something wrong and made my buildings too small? I know they are relatively compressed, I prefer it that way, but would like them to blend a lot more with other things. They do fit the CC buildings nice though, for the most part.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: kid1293 on April 08, 2017, 05:42:43 AM

I guess it is the compact style that makes them look smaller.
If you look at distance from the top edge of the door up to next floor
it is lower than what I have in Wild West.
I have the same feeling with my Rowhouses.
I even made rowhouses a bit higher (to compensate) and left it there.
I am more concerned with the different textures. My buildings
stand out as grey and dull. Actually my intention. Dusty western town.
Yours on the other hand look rather new and fresh.
And I use to group buildings from different modders at different
places on the map. (First some cheap start - then more and more advanced
in clusters all over the place)


edit - the last picture is better. My colonial houses matches yours.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 08, 2017, 06:36:35 AM
there is no right answere to this. sometimes smaller buildings fit certain areas more than larger ones.KID'S rowhouses is  smaller but they fit well in a production or mining area.especially near the industrial market. in general most of your buildings fit well with the other mods. the pine cabin and the school and townhall that are made as well as the pine wharehouse do seem small. the hospital, the production areas,the forest sets are a really good fit. the larger houses fit.  if you designed the pines to save space in the forests then you might not want to change them, they do serve a purpose there.you ask 5 people,you will get 5 different ideas.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: kid1293 on April 08, 2017, 06:54:14 AM

Quote from: brads3 on April 08, 2017, 06:36:35 AM
you ask 5 people,you will get 5 different ideas.


Right!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 08, 2017, 07:50:33 AM
NECORA,not to be picky but you said the trees should produce at 8 months growth. are you sure it isn't set to 8 years?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Paeng on April 08, 2017, 07:58:16 AM
Quote from: Necora on April 08, 2017, 05:19:51 AMis this just a consequence of many modders with their own styles, and something that players like and are used to, or have I done something wrong and made my buildings too small?

I would not say that you have done something "wrong"... I have only done few play-throughs yet and am still struggling with the sheer amount of items and chains that came out in quick succession  ;)

Different styles are always good - and sometimes they are easy to 'blend', sometimes harder... you have set a quite specific theme (Canadian, coastal), with some strong color accents and very different textures - for me I still need some sessions to find ways to draw things together, not just build a "Necora Village" on the other side of town  :D

As for the "compression" - yeah, there are spots where they seem to be rather small, but then again, there is no really consistent scale in most packs, they all vary... sometimes more, sometimes less obvious. The "trick" is to find placements and groups where they blend well.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on April 08, 2017, 08:23:16 PM
Quote from: Necora on April 08, 2017, 05:19:51 AM
So my question, is this just a consequence of many modders with their own styles, and something that players like and are used to, or have I done something wrong and made my buildings too small? I know they are relatively compressed, I prefer it that way, but would like them to blend a lot more with other things. They do fit the CC buildings nice though, for the most part.



No complaints from me, but you knew that would be the case :)

I actually have a nifty little mining town starting to form on my current map and your corner building @Necora fits right in on the corner around a mountain between 2 mines.
@kid1293 buildings then make up the main road.

They fit together really well, as far as I am concerned.

I realised though in that moment, I am severely lacking in corner houses, hahaha.  Happy with what I do have though :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 10, 2017, 08:00:50 PM
Thanks for the feedback everyone.

@kid1293 I am happy the colonial houses go well together, your set was an inspiration for this, when it first came out I used it rather heavily and decided I wanted more! It was always an aim to have especially the Sherbrooke set complement yours. I also end up building little towns all over the map, so a Kid one here, a DS one there, a CC/NMT one in the middle. I'm not as good at blending styles together.

I think I will currently leave them as is, but when I get a few more complete sets together (Sherbrooke, Port Royal) I'll build them into a massive town and play around with making them fit each other, and see how they can fit others well (mainly the other colonial mods like Kid's and @The Pilgrim 's awesome houses). I think some of the Sherbrooke houses need a step up, they are small even compared to the school in the same set. Also, I actually wouldn't mind increasing the height of the Pine Set buildings at some point too, that way you can see more of the house beneath the over hangs which at the moment pretty much obscure most of the front of the houses.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on April 10, 2017, 08:08:43 PM
@brads3 I am not sure. The 'float _growthInMonths' is 40, so the trees reach maturity in 40 months, 3.333 years. Unless, by month it actually means seasons in which case it would be 10 game years, but I don't know how Banished reads 'Months' in the code. I assume it is 12 months in a year. In this case, a tree should be harvest-able in a forester by the 3rd year after it is planted.

The 'float min_spawnAge' of all natural resources spawned by the trees is 0.2 (apart from herbs which are 1.1). I actually have no idea what this means, but when I play it through the first spawned resource tends to appear after about 1 year from building a foresters hut in a cleared area.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on April 20, 2017, 08:30:10 PM
Quote from: QueryEverything on April 06, 2017, 08:23:52 PM
Quote from: Necora on April 06, 2017, 07:56:19 PM
Thanks @grammycat ! I'll see into the apples, perhaps I reduced them too much.

I have not had much time to create lately, got involved in a project at work at the last minute that has a rather impending deadline. Short story, I gotta take a lot of pictures of a lot of oyster shells very quick and process/analyse them all. But I do get to use some cool equipment like electron microscopes.

I have been thinking though, and had an idea back to the crystal cliffs goat pen discussion. I want to get the opinions of @RedKetchup , @Tom Sawyer , @kid1293 , and @anyoneelsewhoisinterested. Remember the goat discussion? We couldn't seem to come to a conclusion on the best way to deal with small structures like this. Kid1293 posted a cool pic of a small flower garden grower at red's WIP, and it reminded me of an idea I had a few weeks ago but ignored. What about, to make a small animal pen/pasture, but without the pasture, we have the hutch as a forester type building, who goes out and plants chickens or goats in a very small radius. These chickens or goats (trees) would spawn milk or eggs or what ever. They also have a longish life time and don't get chopped down (if we can do that - can you have a forester that only plants and doesn't harvest?) and just die of old age. Do you think something like this would work?

Just turn the forester to plant only :)
I love this idea, with some cool fencing, and it will look like a baby animal farm :D :D :D
Love!

Not bumping or prompting at all @Necora ... I wouldn't dare ask about your thoughts ... 
What post?  Oh? hahaha 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 08, 2017, 02:22:22 PM
Overhauls, updates, and new material...

Hi all. I have not had much time to mod lately, work got super busy and the sun is out later in the evening, so more outside time planting my veg patch than indoor time modding.

I did manage to spend some time this weekend though, we were well and truly washed out with rain.

I am overhauling and updating all mods.

This includes making sure all core files, so the community files, new limits, etc. are all up to date in all mods. This should stop any load order/compatibility issues.

I am also re-applying the textures. I've put in a 'NEC' prefix to all texture files, which should prevent possible conflicts and funky texturing. I'm also running them through and image optimizer to cut down on file size and increase performance (hopefully). This is taking quite some time, but I plan to get all mods done.

I am also planning on releasing all un-released content 'as is'. I have so many plans, but so little time. So instead of posting teasers constantly, I wanted to get the current stuff out there as it is taking longer and longer between each release as I just don't have the time.

With that being said, I am going away for 2 months this summer for work (from the start of June) and will not have modding capabilities. I want to get as much updated and released as I can before then, so hold on!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 08, 2017, 03:18:05 PM
yeahhhh<<applauds
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: embx61 on May 08, 2017, 03:22:26 PM
Great work @Necora

And indeed real life comes first.

What program, do you use for optimizing the textures if I may ask?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 08, 2017, 03:33:54 PM
@embx61 I use the RIOT - Radical Image Optimization Tool. I find it is really good. It can reduce colour profile with no loss visually, you can see comparisons side by side and stop decreasing colours when you start to see impacts of it. It is also the best thing I've tried (vs gimp and ifranview) for resizing textures without loss. I've made >1mb image files to less than 200 kb and you can't tell the difference.

The one thing it does not handle too well is semi-transparent images... but I have not found anything that does (for free).

http://luci.criosweb.ro/riot/
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: embx61 on May 08, 2017, 03:51:10 PM
Thanks @Necora

I will download and try it out.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Bartender on May 09, 2017, 10:57:46 AM
That's a great little tool! It's reducing the size of some of my texture files a lot.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Paeng on May 09, 2017, 11:05:41 AM
Quote from: Bartender on May 09, 2017, 10:57:46 AMThat's a great little tool! It's reducing the size of some of my texture files a lot.

Yep, also highly recommended for screenshots, specially for journals where one quickly has 20 or more... you can reduce the load by up to 60%   :)

* plus an easy switch to jpg instead of png...  ;)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 21, 2017, 03:59:44 PM
What, what is this? The Pine Set and New Flora mods working perfectly together? With no duplicate flax and all natural resources appearing on the map?? Why yes! Yes it is!

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/NewPineFlora.jpg.79fd3757b16a598c5ba2abe86c9e7891.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/NewPineFlora2.jpg.dc349bc8aabd0c630f305ecebd7425ce.jpg)

And yes, those are diagonal pine cabins. And yes, they will be in the update.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 21, 2017, 04:06:18 PM
hmm does the tailor still use CC flax also??
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: calli74 on May 21, 2017, 04:09:48 PM
oooohhhhhhh!!!!!! now this is another thing I'm looking forward to. I reinstalled my windows a few days ago and apart from testing out Red's canals I haven't played banished for a few days, so many updated mods to download and install and set up again. I'll wait now till this is finished :) I really love Tany's new flora but only got it figured out recently how to use it with CC and now it'll be even better to have it work with your stuff too.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 21, 2017, 04:19:12 PM
With @tanypredator 's permission I have been working on a couple of patches to make the New Flora mod fully compatible with all other mods that use flax, so CC, maritimes, EBOilPress etc. As a courtesy I'm waiting on the approval of my changes before I tell you many details ;) But the aim is to make flax cross compatible with all mods, so there is only 1 raw material flax and you can use it in any chain that needs some form of flax. I've also been working on a second patch that is specifically for New Flora and the Pine Set that allows all natural resources from both mods to be spawned by the trees at the start of the game. So you will find bees, oats, roses, flax, beaver lodges, chanterelles, fiddleheads, cranberries, and fox and rabbit holes on start up.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: calli74 on May 21, 2017, 04:34:20 PM
That's great news Necora, it's wonderful to see all the collaboration here and with black liquid for mods and hardly any "drama" like I've seen in some communities. Keep up the great work cos you are all making Banished a beautiful world to play in.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on May 21, 2017, 06:29:30 PM
Quote from: calli74 on May 21, 2017, 04:34:20 PM
That's great news Necora, it's wonderful to see all the collaboration here and with black liquid for mods and hardly any "drama" like I've seen in some communities. Keep up the great work cos you are all making Banished a beautiful world to play in.


/like
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on May 21, 2017, 06:56:53 PM
Great work @Necora & special shout out to @tanypredator for letting Necora work his magic on the code.

I've not had a problem running the mods together, but I have missed out on seeing Necora's goodies on map load - now, I don't have to worry :D What a fab Monday morning :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on May 22, 2017, 05:00:10 AM
@Necora how wonderful, thank you.  Two great mods and now will not have to choose one or the other.  Love the looks of those pine cabins.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Paeng on May 22, 2017, 05:43:42 AM
Quote from: Necora on May 21, 2017, 04:19:12 PMworking on a couple of patches to make the New Flora mod fully compatible with all other mods that use flax

Wonderful!  ;D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 22, 2017, 09:40:10 AM
Hello everyone, I have added the Flax Patch and New Pine Flora to the download section... give them a test and tell me that they work!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on May 22, 2017, 09:40:41 PM
Thanks @Necora this is indeed great news :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 24, 2017, 04:23:32 PM
I hope you are all enjoying the Pine Set BETA test and finding all the little bugs in there for me to squish! Also, feedback on production rates would be greatly appreciated.

In the mean time, I've now finished updating all of the currently released mods (once Pine Set is out of BETA). I have re-modeled the storage collection and added a dry storage and a tool shed to it. I will be uploading this in the next couple of days.

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/StorageTeaser01.jpg.1f57c1366c24fc1d8b2bf05cf126ab67.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/StorageTeaser02.jpg.d693474ba7e7063a67680a316b30083e.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/StorageTeaser03.jpg.459477d03ef7610bdfcfd9d199a123cf.jpg)

I have also found a bit of time to work on another set that has been hiding in the wings - the Port Royal set. This is a collection of buildings in the original mod that are designed around a 1700s fort in the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia. It was one of the first Acadian settlements, and had North America's first wheat crop planted near by with a grist mill.

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser01.jpg.297258d8e09969c68ac0faea1e91506e.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser02.jpg.92337f9f287b2c15c34df62ce48554f7.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser03.jpg.5aa9405575df0cc668db7984908ab630.jpg)

So far we have the blacksmith, tailor, bakery, and grist mill. There are a couple of houses, a lower level and an upper level to make a row house situation. The aim of these buildings is that they will form a fort, so all built facing a central square. I have palisades and cannon platforms too, hopefully I can update these in the near future and release at least a portion of this set before I leave for travelling.



Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 24, 2017, 05:11:50 PM
where are you traveling to? it will be a well earned break.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on May 24, 2017, 06:03:01 PM
I have woefully missed the Fort Royal set, it had lovely little 2x buildings I could tuck away and yet still produce goodies, and it always worked well with the foresting outposts, tucked in amongst the trees.
I know, not very fort-ish, but I'm one for offbook workings, roflmao :)

Anyway, lovely to know we are getting more storage, one can never get enough.  :)

If you need more info on the bugs I found, I'll write up some more later (not more bugs, just more info).
As for numbers, I'll take a look later. 
I made far too many buildings that use flax, so I keep bottoming on that - but, that's just me.  haha.  :D

Thanks for the update @Necora
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Karlieb on May 24, 2017, 10:34:07 PM
Quote from: Necora on May 24, 2017, 04:23:32 PM
I have also found a bit of time to work on another set that has been hiding in the wings - the Port Royal set. This is a collection of buildings in the original mod that are designed around a 1700s fort in the Annapolis Valley, Nova Scotia. It was one of the first Acadian settlements, and had North America's first wheat crop planted near by with a grist mill.

It is sad that you speak of Acadians and I suddenly have a craving for gumbo.

About production numbers; I was drowning in furs, pelts, boughs and resin even before building the forager tents just because of the foresters. I deleted (as in debug deleted) the previous forest before building the foresters too. I'm not sure 'clearing' resources without the dedicated profession should give the full quantity (maybe half the beavers abandoned their lodge when they heard the foresters stomping nearby and the boughs and resin got tossed aside because they didn't look useful, the sap was ruined because the moron put the tap in wrong and it ran down the tree instead of into the bucket etc). But I don't know if half instead of all or none is possible.

Getting enough flax to make linen is kind of difficult which is fine; finding enough randomly growing plants in the wilderness to clothe a village isn't really all that likely.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 24, 2017, 10:41:20 PM
wb tester. very good points. did you get apples from the foresters too?maybe you should have the laborers clear a 20x20 patch and show the numbers of what they collect to give NECORA an idea of how overpowering you find things. curious question are you running the NAT DIV mod also? any other mods you have causing effects?very good analysis report. much appreciated.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 27, 2017, 05:31:47 PM
@QueryEverything it shan't be long.

@Karlieb yeah I think I'm going to restrict the collection of fur and possibly pelt to trappers only, I have so many I can't even trade them away because they are worth a lot. I agree about not giving the full quantity, but unfortunately there is no way to do this in the code. It is all or nothing!

@brads3 I'm heading out to Dominica for 7 weeks for "work". I'll have internet, and will pop in to the boards, but have a feeling modding isn't going to be at the top of my list ;)


And for another update... A few more Port Royal teasers...

Joining up with the bakery, blacksmith, tailor, and mill we now have some row houses. There are single story, small houses for 4, over handing two story houses for 4 to be build above the small ones, a two story central house (both floors) that takes a family of 5, and 3 versions of a corner house that takes a family of 6. Not set on the housing numbers yet.

I have quite a few things remaining in this set, and am not sure if I will finish them before I leave. But I'll wait on releasing it in case I do manage to get the time to finish some more up.

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser04.jpg.19c47ebd46882d6d469f8d80bfe1e694.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser05.jpg.509736b0b8fc42cd89de26ef19ddf016.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser06.jpg.fd493c5baf42e1f289476a02d21765e2.jpg)

(http://blackliquidsoftware.com/uploads/monthly_2017_05/PRTeaser07.jpg.dd1ffdd4244d94d09af7a285dee44352.jpg)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on May 27, 2017, 06:27:13 PM
Another nice looking set  :) Stay safe on your travels @Necora
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 27, 2017, 06:52:35 PM
work?? when did you stop? you mean this don't count?  did you change the texture wording of the cannons for the port royal mod? you try to enjoy your trip.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: ancientmuse on May 27, 2017, 08:26:13 PM
These look absolutely fantabulous, dahling !

Another must-have for my maple syrup guzzling Canadian bannies....

;D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on May 27, 2017, 09:42:09 PM
Getting overjoyed :)  Woohooooo ....
I wanna put my hands up to Beta before you pack up for the 7 weeks :)

Ok ... I understand, no releases until you're ready :D  haha :D

Thanks for the teasers @Necora , looking great.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on May 28, 2017, 09:04:46 AM
@Abandoned  and @ancientmuse thanks!

@brads3 I never stop! Until 2 weeks time. Then I stop for a while. And yeah, the cannons are fixed, so no more overwrites of other textures.

@QueryEverything it won't be a beta it will be full, I don't have time for a beta. I'll upload it as is later this week, which gives me a few days to fiddle with more things. We'll see what else gets done to be added.



I've been bug fixing the Pine Set and here is what I've done... have I missed anything? (specifically to anyone Beta testing it atm).

New Content - Corner Row Houses - A set of tall and small corner row houses have been added, using the guest house and tavern model. Each set has 6 F-variants, one for each colour of the other row houses.

New Content - Small Chapel - A new dinky chapel with a capacity of 30 as been addded for those small rural communities.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Food) - Food producing natural resources can now be harvested by any profession, so they are not lost when clearing an area etc.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Trapper Chain) - Natural resources that produce game and eggs are harvestable by any profession when clearing land etc. Natural resources that produce pelt and fur can only be harvested by a Trapper. A trapper will still also collect game and egg resources.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Pine Forest) - Natural resources that produce specialized items (resin) are harvestable only be a gatherer. All others (including boughs) can be harvested by any profession when clearing land etc.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Maple Forest) - Natural resources that produce specialized items (maple sap) are harvestable only be a gatherer. All others can be harvested by any profession when clearing land etc.

Balancing - Natural Resource Spawning (Pine Forest) - Spawn times of the natural resources associated with the Pine Forest have been adjusted.
- Trees - Max Growth = 5 years, Maturity = 36 months (3 years).
- Herbs - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.1 years.
- Chanterelle - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Nest (eggs) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Trap (pelt) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.5 years (half way to tree maturity).
- Trap (fur) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 3 years (fully mature trees only).
- Trap (game) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Bough - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Pine Resin - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.5 years (half way to tree maturity).
- Flax - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.

Balancing - Natural Resource Spawning (Maple Forest) - Spawn times of the natural resources associated with the Maple Forest have been adjusted.
- Trees - Max Growth = 5 years, Maturity = 36 months (3 years).
- Herbs - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.1 years.
- Apple - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.0 years (1/3 to tree maturity).
- Maple Sap - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.0 years (1/3 to tree maturity).
- Blueberry - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Cranberry - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Trap (pelt) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.5 years (half way to tree maturity).
- Trap (fur) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 3 years (fully mature trees only).
- Trap (game) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.

Balancing - Natural Resource Spawning (Vanilla Forest) - Spawn times of the natural resources associated with the Vanilla Forest have been adjusted.
- Trees - Max Growth = 5 years, Maturity = 36 months (3 years).
- Beaver Lodge (pelt) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.5 years (half way to tree maturity).
- Blueberry - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Cranberry - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Chanterelle - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Fiddlehead - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Fox Hole (fur) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 3 years (fully mature trees only).
- Herbs - Spawn Age (of trees) = 1.1 years.
- Mushroom - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Nest (eggs) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Onion - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Rabbit Hole (game) - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.
- Root - Spawn Age (of trees) = 0.2 years.

Balancing - Game - The high:low create of game has been increased to 14:10. This should double how much the trapper creates of this resource.

Bug Fix - Egg(s) - The name of egg(s) has been changed.

Bug Fix - Cabin Upgrades - I got some file names confused so the normal colour cabins were upgrading into diagonal cabins. This has been corrected.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on May 28, 2017, 09:22:38 AM
that sounds very good. i like the way the apples and sap work.this option of all bannies being able to collect most items makes sence. i think it will help the thatch,fodder,and trappers in meadows.it will be interesting to test it.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on May 28, 2017, 11:52:59 PM
Quote from: Necora on May 28, 2017, 09:04:46 AM
{{Snip}}

@QueryEverything it won't be a beta it will be full, I don't have time for a beta. I'll upload it as is later this week, which gives me a few days to fiddle with more things. We'll see what else gets done to be added.


I've been bug fixing the Pine Set and here is what I've done... have I missed anything? (specifically to anyone Beta testing it atm).

New Content

Balancing - Natural Resources (Food) - Food producing natural resources can now be harvested by any profession, so they are not lost when clearing an area etc.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Trapper Chain) - Natural resources that produce game and eggs are harvestable by any profession when clearing land etc. Natural resources that produce pelt and fur can only be harvested by a Trapper. A trapper will still also collect game and egg resources.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Pine Forest) - Natural resources that produce specialized items (resin) are harvestable only be a gatherer. All others (including boughs) can be harvested by any profession when clearing land etc.

Balancing - Natural Resources (Maple Forest) - Natural resources that produce specialized items (maple sap) are harvestable only be a gatherer. All others can be harvested by any profession when clearing land etc.

[/size]{{Snip}}

Balancing - Game - The high:low create of game has been increased to 14:10. This should double how much the trapper creates of this resource.

Bug Fix - Egg(s) - The name of egg(s) has been changed.

Bug Fix - Cabin Upgrades - I got some file names confused so the normal colour cabins were upgrading into diagonal cabins. This has been corrected.



Wow, @Necora you have been busy, so much awesomeness :D


A couple of things:
Thank you :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on May 29, 2017, 04:50:43 AM
@Necora gathering system sounds fine to me, I can't wait to try these beautiful sets, such nice variety.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on June 12, 2017, 02:26:30 AM
I haven´t found the upgrade. ???
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on June 12, 2017, 06:58:20 AM
which upgrade? i would check the page for the mod. say the pine mod on the pine mod page at the top.otherwise check the download section under 1.07.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Nilla on June 12, 2017, 11:17:04 AM
Quote from: brads3 on June 12, 2017, 06:58:20 AM
which upgrade? i would check the page for the mod. say the pine mod on the pine mod page at the top.otherwise check the download section under 1.07.

That upgrade from which he tells on the top of this page, the long entry. That one, that ends with
QuoteBug Fix - Cabin Upgrades - I got some file names confused so the normal colour cabins were upgrading into diagonal cabins. This has been corrected.

My upgraded cabins are diagonal for sure, the output of the forest also seems very much the same as it was, and I have the latest beta. When I try to download the mod from the download page, the "Dropbox says" that the file has been deactivated. At least I can't download anything from there. I guess, he hadn't time for the upgrade. No matter. We can wait.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on June 12, 2017, 12:37:58 PM
i think the may 22nd beta is the last set he did. there is an alternate download link for google.http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1560.msg29343#msg29343
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on June 12, 2017, 08:23:12 PM
@Nilla , @Necora was listing the bug fixes he has made, and what still needs to be done for the next release, he hasn't released anything else since end of May.  He is away currently, but when possible will no doubt be back and updating us on any progress made :)  (Depending on workloads & connection availability will determine when we have access to him).

But for now, enjoy the bonus diagonals, oops ;) 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Kimbolton on August 09, 2017, 05:50:17 PM
Hi, Just started playing again after a long hiatus. Thanks so much for all you have added to the game. Wonderful textures and the buildings add so much variety. Really appreciate all your hard work on this! :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on August 19, 2017, 02:30:18 PM
Peek-a-boo

What have I missed?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on August 19, 2017, 03:44:21 PM
lots.WB boss.is it a short visit or are you home for a while? i did a test.check the village blogs for when i traveled north when you get the chance.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on August 19, 2017, 04:13:03 PM
@brads3 expand on lots ;) I'll have a look through in a bit. I am back for a while, no plans to shoot off again. However my computer didn't enjoy the heat and humidity of the jungle as much as I did, so I won't be doing much modding for a while until I get it sorted and the nights start to get longer.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on August 19, 2017, 04:25:28 PM
due to your work on the water,EB made several irrigation ditches and RED did a huge canal overhaul.there has been lots of mods updated due to the changes to the 1.07. did your ears ring while you was away? there has been a few who paged you off and on. i do hope you enjoyed the trip and your time away. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: embx61 on August 19, 2017, 04:44:13 PM
Necora did the riffles.

It was Bartender who did the moving water trick :)

Welcome back Necora :)

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on August 19, 2017, 06:03:28 PM
welcome back @Necora   :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: ancientmuse on August 19, 2017, 11:34:32 PM
Quote from: Necora on August 19, 2017, 02:30:18 PM
Peek-a-boo

What have I missed?

Welcome back !

How was your holiday ?

Tell us all about the jungle, where did you go ?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 05, 2017, 05:01:16 PM
Thanks for the welcome back all. Good to see you all again.

@brads3 Yup I had no hand in the water.

@ancientmuse the jungle was awesome. I was in Dominica, a very beautiful island in the Caribbean. Spend 2 months there studying coral reef ecology and climate change, was an amazing experience and am missing it greatly.

I have not had time to do much modding, but have been stalking the forums and seeing what has been going on. There are some awesome things being released at such a rate, I'm struggling to keep up with all of the developments of the likes of @embx61, @kid1293  and @RedKetchup . It is great to see you guys still going at it, I was worried things would have died down by the time I returned, esp as it seems rather quiet over at BL.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on September 05, 2017, 05:06:11 PM
you will miss it more by january.LOLit is quieter but not dead at all. KRAY did stop and say a few words last wk or so,so there is life out there yet.good luck catching up.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on September 10, 2017, 07:20:24 PM
Welcome back @Necora :) 
I've been in the naughty corner for the last 2 months.  :(

@embx61 says I can come out now, I think I'm ready, just still a little soft round the edges. :)  So, great timing for both of us.  You need to get creative again, I need to annoy someone new again ... hahaha (kidding)... 

It's good to see you back. 
Sending a PM shortly. :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: embx61 on September 10, 2017, 07:28:58 PM
If it was for me you never ended up in the naughty corner in the first place.

You think you are ready????? Nope, wrong approach. You ARE ready  ;)  :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on September 10, 2017, 07:31:28 PM
Sending you a PM @embx61 too.  :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 12, 2017, 10:57:24 PM
I had a bit of time for Banished lately, so I've been working on a set that has been on the back burner for a while. In fact, the tailor of this set was the first building I ever made, and since then it has slowly been progressing. Here are a couple of winter teasers. If anyone remembers these buildings, they have been re-crafted quite substantially. I have a couple more things to add, then it will be ready for release.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: embx61 on September 13, 2017, 12:12:43 AM
looking good.

good to see you back at it Necora :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: raerae2 on September 13, 2017, 04:01:34 AM
Pretty. I really like that church in the center of the second picture.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Abandoned on September 13, 2017, 04:47:40 AM
Hello @Necora , that set looks very nice.  Welcome back, I have not forgotten your great sets and have a story in mind for the Pine set later in fall.  I will look forward to this one in winter.  :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on September 13, 2017, 05:53:43 PM
Quote from: Necora on September 12, 2017, 10:57:24 PM
I had a bit of time for Banished lately, so I've been working on a set that has been on the back burner for a while. In fact, the tailor of this set was the first building I ever made, and since then it has slowly been progressing. Here are a couple of winter teasers. If anyone remembers these buildings, they have been re-crafted quite substantially. I have a couple more things to add, then it will be ready for release.


Sweet goddess!!  Seriously ... you're leading the statement with, "If anyone remembers these buildings".  You know that' a pitchfork offence from my camp!!  :D

Looking forward to this release, one of my most missed mods. 

Thanks for the update @Necora :D


ps:  a small request (you weren't going to get away without one), with this set, can we please have a couple of 'coverings'.  Maybe a couple of 1x2, 2x2, 2x4 sized ones.
Lean-to & free style ones.  Mainly to go over say the stock piles, but also other bits and pieces.  Setting one up as a shade area, a chair underneath, some scattered decos, alongside a little fishing hole :)  As well as coverings for the tiny chopper & so on.   
Please & thank you for your consideration :D
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 13, 2017, 07:06:15 PM
Thanks all. The set is coming on, just deciding if I want to add any more production buildings to it. I think I might wait on more for now, and do a couple of other things I have planned. So I will get this balanced up as is. There, I just decided. One of the main things I've been working on with this set is adding some more detail to other sides of the buildings. Originally, everything faced inwards, i.e. there were doors and windows etc. on the front or 'inside' (i.e. courtyard side) of the buildings, but nothing on the back and sides. This looked a bit too bland especially with the taller buildings, and meant some houses only had 1 small window. So for the 1 level houses I added a large window in the roof facing forward (giving the impression that the roof has a room in it too) and also a small slit window protruding from the roof at the back. I've also added the slit windows to the 2nd level of the taller buildings, so you can imagine a little bit of light to come through and also some where to stick a gun/bow out of when under attack. It is a fort after all. I also extended the overhanging aspect of the 2 level buildings to the rear, because I think it is a rather neat feature.

So I had a funny little mistake happen when editing some of these buildings, the resulting screenshots are attached to this message. What do you think of those textures? I made a few changes to the inner corner buildings, and must have somehow re-ordered or something the textures in the blender file some how. I went to test them in a save game, and this occurred. The corner buildings were already built, and some how the textures got mixed up so that in two of the buildings what is meant to be the door texture became the roof, the roof became the walls, the walls became the chimney, the door hinges became the support beams, and I think it is the chimney that became the frames. In the third building the window glass became the roof and the door became the chimney. I took the pictures because there is something I really like about those texture combinations... the door as a roof looks like copper, and the window as a roof makes a nice cream colour. The shingles as a wall look just awesome, and there is something pleasing about how the new walls, roof, and frame seem to complement each other. Perhaps I've stumbled onto a new colour variant!

@embx61 your irrigation ditches make for awesome moats ;) could put in a request for a 1 tile wide ghosted piece if you every fancy an update?

@raerae2 it is a neat church. It is based on a church in town here that I've always thought looked pretty cool, IRL it is grey with red trim which is a bit different, and has a nice shape. I wanted to get it into the game and at the same time was struggling to fit a church into the wall to wall fort set when I walked passed it one day and thought 'hey! That will fit!'. So there it is. I might make an variant of it with the IRL colours, but that might be included into a chuch add-on I want to do at some point. It is not a very historic or old church, just looks cool.

@Abandoned that is nice to hear, I am looking forward to what you can come up with :)

@QueryEverything it won't be long. And re. coverings, I've actually been working on a set. They have been something I wanted to introduce for a long time but never got around to it. Differently from other sets out there, these are going to be a puzzle set, that can be used to make a 1x1 covering or something of any size and shame, so an L or T or +, 3 long, 10 long, what ever. I will make them in a dark wood to fit the pine set, a white to fit the sherbrooke set, and a gray to fit the port royal set.


Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on September 13, 2017, 07:20:52 PM
the copper roof and gray siding isn't bad but not with the dark chimney. that yuky greenish roof has to go though.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: QueryEverything on September 13, 2017, 08:06:12 PM
Quote from: Necora on September 13, 2017, 07:06:15 PM
Thanks all. The set is coming on, just deciding if I want to add any more production buildings to it. I think I might wait on more for now, and do a couple of other things I have planned. So I will get this balanced up as is. There, I just decided. One of the main things I've been working on with this set is adding some more detail to other sides of the buildings. Originally, everything faced inwards, i.e. there were doors and windows etc. on the front or 'inside' (i.e. courtyard side) of the buildings, but nothing on the back and sides. This looked a bit too bland especially with the taller buildings, and meant some houses only had 1 small window. So for the 1 level houses I added a large window in the roof facing forward (giving the impression that the roof has a room in it too) and also a small slit window protruding from the roof at the back. I've also added the slit windows to the 2nd level of the taller buildings, so you can imagine a little bit of light to come through and also some where to stick a gun/bow out of when under attack. It is a fort after all. I also extended the overhanging aspect of the 2 level buildings to the rear, because I think it is a rather neat feature.

So I had a funny little mistake happen when editing some of these buildings, the resulting screenshots are attached to this message. What do you think of those textures? I made a few changes to the inner corner buildings, and must have somehow re-ordered or something the textures in the blender file some how. I went to test them in a save game, and this occurred. The corner buildings were already built, and some how the textures got mixed up so that in two of the buildings what is meant to be the door texture became the roof, the roof became the walls, the walls became the chimney, the door hinges became the support beams, and I think it is the chimney that became the frames. In the third building the window glass became the roof and the door became the chimney. I took the pictures because there is something I really like about those texture combinations... the door as a roof looks like copper, and the window as a roof makes a nice cream colour. The shingles as a wall look just awesome, and there is something pleasing about how the new walls, roof, and frame seem to complement each other. Perhaps I've stumbled onto a new colour variant!

@embx61 your irrigation ditches make for awesome moats ;) could put in a request for a 1 tile wide ghosted piece if you every fancy an update?

@raerae2 it is a neat church. It is based on a church in town here that I've always thought looked pretty cool, IRL it is grey with red trim which is a bit different, and has a nice shape. I wanted to get it into the game and at the same time was struggling to fit a church into the wall to wall fort set when I walked passed it one day and thought 'hey! That will fit!'. So there it is. I might make an variant of it with the IRL colours, but that might be included into a chuch add-on I want to do at some point. It is not a very historic or old church, just looks cool.

@Abandoned that is nice to hear, I am looking forward to what you can come up with :)

@QueryEverything it won't be long. And re. coverings, I've actually been working on a set. They have been something I wanted to introduce for a long time but never got around to it. Differently from other sets out there, these are going to be a puzzle set, that can be used to make a 1x1 covering or something of any size and shame, so an L or T or +, 3 long, 10 long, what ever. I will make them in a dark wood to fit the pine set, a white to fit the sherbrooke set, and a gray to fit the port royal set.




Haha, what a whoopsie @Necora

I really like the beige, would suit a river/beachside area, or an inland forestry settlement, the colour would blend rather than stand out, excellent for camo in a fort ;)

The orange, that's unusual, I like it.  It suits the road you made, and could then be a natural colour progression between a seaside town with the Shore buildings to the local Fort, the building style changes, but the colour keeps the 'theme'.  The roads used also being the red/orange, one would think you were in a drier area of the continent, rich with the deep ochres, reds and clay colouring of the earth.  Interesting designs there ...

The grey sidings, I'm not sold on (obviously as a whoopsie), but if broken up with different trimmings could look really good, and excellent say in a mining district, what with the feel of stone colours and metal etc.  :)

I really like the idea of the alternate colour of the church too, sounds intriguing.  And would fit in with any of your other mods as well.  :)

Your coverings sound cool, I like the idea of them, puzzle pieces and versatility is excellent and I think that is what we will have when you release. :)
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TheOtherMicheal on September 13, 2017, 08:37:21 PM
I do like some of the lighter textures on those buildings and like Query said, they would look good in different districts.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 16, 2017, 10:43:40 AM
Well, I'll keep the textures in mind for a later date ;)

So I'm testing through the PR set and it is working well, I will upload it soon.

In the mean time I've also started at the puzzle coverings. So far, it is just 1 tile deep, but there will be more.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Gatherer on September 16, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Looks awesome! I can already imagine a forester tower and a woodcuter yard in the middle of that square.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 16, 2017, 06:40:15 PM
Quote from: Gatherer on September 16, 2017, 03:21:56 PM
Looks awesome! I can already imagine a forester tower and a woodcuter yard in the middle of that square.

;D more to come...

So I've finished the first volume of coverings... I've added a higher level and an arched level. Just need to adjust the AO on a few and they are ready to go.

If you use them with vanilla stock piles, the piles will stick out of the top of the lowest coverings. However, if you use the fantastic stock pile models replacement by discrepancy, they fit beautifully, as shown in the screen shots attached.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on September 16, 2017, 07:17:57 PM
it looks awesome !!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 16, 2017, 08:52:35 PM
Thanks @RedKetchup

So I am uploading it right now, should be shared soon.

I've started putting together a small construction set too, the first is a lumber cutter. I'm planning on consolidating all of my smaller industry into 1, then re-making the ones on other sets into things that are unique. For example, the lumber cutter of Port Royal and Pine Set will be removed, and replaced with ones that are more unique and interesting to their set. The basic cutter will be in this set, pictured below (it fits nicely with the modular coverings!).
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 17, 2017, 08:55:56 AM
Well the coverings are live so I hope you are enjoying them. As always, I'm open to feedback/suggestions.

The humble lumber cutter has been made a tad larger, and I've made a small kiln for melting iron ore into iron (so yes, this also introduces iron ore to the maritimes sets). To come, a mason and probably a carpenter of some sort.

I also need to decide how I will balance making lumber into a more widely used substance rather than just for advanced things. Same with stone.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 17, 2017, 10:20:24 AM
Textures have been adjusted and buildings balanced some what. I've also added a chopper.

I think I'll release this so far so people can see the output numbers of the buildings and tell me if they are too slow or expensive, or perhaps to quick and cheap.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 17, 2017, 12:53:34 PM
With lumber replacing wood as the main build requirement for houses etc. in the maritimes from now on, I made some log cabins (well, a log cabin at the moment). These will be built out of just logs and stone, but will be relatively poor in terms of firewood consumption. They are meant as a first house before you build up the town to start making more advanced things.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 19, 2017, 04:58:27 PM
The log cabins now have 5 F-variants (mostly colour of the logs) and also the whole lot have a diagonal version too. Just going to test them out once more then upload them.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on September 19, 2017, 06:27:43 PM
LOL.u should give the igloo to TOM. he might like to use that up north.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 20, 2017, 02:19:24 AM
My people don't want to live in this igloo... tooo hot.^^
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Oona on September 22, 2017, 01:31:20 AM
Nice log cabins, Necora. I like the planks you use for the roofs. Thank you!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 30, 2017, 01:30:12 PM
Hi all,

The Pine Set got updated to change some of the numbers, making some resources a bit more accessible.

I'm also nearly finished with the Port Royal set, it just needs some play through. I added the last piece needed for an initial release just now, a new market. See the screen shots attached!

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on September 30, 2017, 04:47:13 PM
yeahh<<<<claps

   now that you are caught up with the upgrade,what do you have planned?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on September 30, 2017, 05:02:43 PM
Quote from: brads3 on September 30, 2017, 04:47:13 PM
yeahh<<<<claps

   now that you are caught up with the upgrade,what do you have planned?

Good question! I'm not entirely sure... I do want to make some more trade posts to fit with the NS set, specialized ones. Then there is the question of how to incorporate the new build requirements which is something I would like to do. Oh and the Sherbrooke set is due some more buildings to fill it out a bit. I have a few ideas, but just need the time to get them built.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on September 30, 2017, 05:09:43 PM
true the sherbrooke could use a larger townhall.since it has the bigger market.if you need i have a few ideas too.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Gatherer on October 01, 2017, 03:02:43 AM
Quote from: Necora on September 30, 2017, 05:02:43 PM
I do want to make some more trade posts to fit with the NS set, specialized ones.
Please make them with a higher capacity than before.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on October 01, 2017, 10:30:38 AM
@Gatherer do you mean storage capacity? I've got them set at 20,000 at the moment... not sure if that is high or not.

So far I have made a livestock and seed trader and an industrial trader. Livestock and seed brings livestock and seeds, and the industrial trader brings most flags such as wood, iron, stone, fuel, tools, coalfuel, industrial, construction, forged, crafted.

Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: purringcat on October 01, 2017, 12:16:56 PM
They look very nice and hope they don't need lumber to build.    Your entire water series is excellent.   

If 20,000 is the max count, that's low.    50,000 is more like normal trade amount.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on October 03, 2017, 07:44:18 AM
The pic attached is a spoiler for something I'm working on for my story I started... I need to find a way to make the pieces transition seamlessly, but the shadows in game are making it hard especially when the texture is grass and so seams cant be hidden in bricks etc.

As for trade post storage, it could be larger than that, I guess it acts as a good dump for clearing out stock piles etc. but also as these are resource specific (some people might see cheat) buildings, I think they should have some costs associated with them compared to the regular trade post.

And on that note, what is the problem with requiring lumber? Or any other construction materials aside from logs and stone for that matter? I'm not sure I get where the push back on lumber is coming from, it is only 1 extra production step from logs and the chains are relatively generous in terms of output. We're making advanced buildings, that do specialized things, and the aim is to not have them available ASAP so you have to use general traders at the start and hope for luck of the boat. Also, lumber, bricks, glass, stone bricks, they all add a good aspect of realism and a but more complexity to the game, surely this is good no?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: kid1293 on October 03, 2017, 08:33:38 AM
You can maybe hide the edge with some vegetation.
Or alternative, make fort contrasting color. Sandy slopes?

I pushed for less complexity in Banished. I don't want super advanced
buildings as standard. I am more of - having fun but don't get silly.

I realize that EB took a hit and for that I beg his pardon.
I was stressed and he talked about big plans for big games.

I agree that more advanced buildings have a place later in game.
Just have a look at AzemOcram's residential buildings.
They must have a production that is up to it.

I don't want people to be blind for 'the small gamer' with an occasional
round of Banished. And I don't want modders to dictate the game.

Realism? Eat once a month and never sleep?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on October 03, 2017, 10:07:48 AM
the arguements over the added building materials is mixed.i think CC overwhelmed people with their building supply chain.that has been fixed with the new slots for extra building requirements. i think there is room for both ways. sometimes like game starts or small towns simpler buildings will be preferred. i do like the way CC has higher grade buildings requiring more and different materials. which you did with the sherbrooke set.we will have players on both sides of this fence though.
     i still like the idea of an added step but also mods that fill the gap. instead of a big jump up to glass and cut stones and lumber to build houses,an easier step up with slab or rough-cut lumber.since it isn't milled it can be produced in decent quatities with a smaller workplace similar to CC's sawpit.many of the mods look like flat wood more so than logs.not saying we should redo all the mods.not at all,but we could begin to add slab wood to the building materials. this easier step might help other players be more open to the expanding ideas as well.
   historically i think it is more accurate. started with log cabins with open windows and shutters to close to keep the wind out.and then slab logs which are logs with the bark removed and semi-squared off.and wood pegs were used to "nail"them together.and then over time,added glass windows and various roofing materials.many players never build large towns but like the small communities better.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on October 03, 2017, 11:19:22 AM
@kid1293 yup vegetation might do the trick, or some small stone work showing through maybe. I'll experiment. I also think for the straight pieces, rather than 1 tile wide I'll make a range of them so 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 tiles wide, then that will cover most lengths. Adding another piece with some height variation, just a little mound or dip, might also come in handy. I don't want it to be too many pieces though, it is just a nice bit of decoration that I think looks cool.

As for the buildings, well, I'm all for basic beginnings then scaling up. I play Banished like a city builder with a survival element added, so I guess for me the natural progression of a town from a small village to a large region centered around a city is the ideal path of the game. That doesn't mean it is the best or correct, just how I like to play. But, I don't want that city to be easy to build, and if the more advanced buildings are bigger, and production faster and cheaper, then I want a good cost and wait to building that building. Something to aim for. That is why things like lumber and other variations make sense to me personally. @brads3 nails my line of thinking pretty well. While I don't want to inundate the game with a tonne of building materials, having a bit of variation makes it more interesting, especially when you need something different than just logs and stone for every building. Then, there are also new professions to be made, and unique new buildings to go with them, that just add to the diversity of the game. I don't think there is any risk of modders dictating the game, there is plenty of choice out there for mods to suit peoples style, and of course no one wants to be forgotten, but at the same time I make things that I think would enhance the play, at least for me. I was actually toying with the idea of releasing a 'vanilla' version and a 'me' version of mods from now on, vanilla having limited new resources and vanilla requirements, but short chains, so mainly a visual enhancement while the 'me' version tackling the building requirements and longer chains.

Oh, sleep? There is no night... why would they sleep? ;) Sure, noses can be turned up at 'realism' in a game like Banished, but it is a game set around a realistic scenario with environments, buildings, and needs that represent a historical period in many parts of the world, while the game is sure limited in certain 'real' aspects, surely that isn't a bad thing to add it in the little ways we can to have lumber boards for a lumber house? Or stone bricks for a stone brick wall?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: kid1293 on October 03, 2017, 11:57:15 AM
Touché!

I agree, requirements for wanted (desired) pieces should match.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: carolinafan95 on October 03, 2017, 02:20:40 PM
If I can throw my 2 cents in, as a new player I'm still getting used to the game and keeping my bannies alive, but at the same time I'm enjoying several different games at the moment by using mods from basically each of you. Each game is different based on map and mod choices, and that keeps me interested and motivated to try different styles of play and game ideas. So the more the better.  ;)

That being said, I agree with you that if you add more and more "realistic" mods then they should have the same "realism" in their design and builds. I don't see a problem with that. I love Red's NMT set where I can start off with a building and then "upgrade" when more building materials are available. To me it's a reward for building up my village and making it look more like a town/city.

Keep up the great work, and while input is always appreciated, make the mods you want to make. That keeps you interested and more inclined to continue modding and not burn out as fast. Thanks to you guys, this game will live on for a long time. Enjoy what you do, enjoy the game, or you'll wind up hating both.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: TaylorItaly on October 03, 2017, 04:31:06 PM
I am also a new player and i am very thankfull for what your modders have done!!!
The first hours of a game are mostly just survive, but after a while i love to build up the complex supply chains to build my bannies better homes and to offer them
better food.
I really love the beautiful pictures Pang made of his towns,and i allways want to build even such scenes,but forget it because of the needs of my people. ::)
I play with a lot of mods and discover allways new things, thank you for that!!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on October 03, 2017, 06:11:04 PM
@carolinafan95 and @TaylorItaly welcome! Thanks for stopping by, its great to see new players come and comment on the boards, and thanks for your kind words.

I've improved the earthwork fort, it looks better. There are still a few odd edges I would like to smooth out. I'm now trying to decide whether to keep them ghosted or give them a footprint, I'm leaning towards the latter and adding build costs to them (I don't like to make ghosted things build-able because you can't see where you placed them, I prefer them to show up instantly). In the pics attached I've built the earthworks fort around a small Port Royal settlement.

For this one, I think I will try a vanilla version and a full version. The vanilla will take logs, stone, and iron for the cannons while the full version will have a range of things, such as logs, stone, stone bricks, and cannons as build requirements. I won't be adding the chains to it though, this will be a small set so the full version will need some other way of making the resources, but they will be produced in Port Royal buildings and in the Humble set which will have a few new buildings each. Apart from cannons, they will be from Sherbrooke because I don't think the Port Royal furnace/blacksmith is quite right to produce them and I've been planning and iron works for the Sherbrooke set anyway.

Seeing as though build requirements are the topic for the day, I figure I'd put out some ideas of a few things I may (or may not) add.

Lumber - will be for all your wood frame and panel needs. I thought about different types of lumber, but would rather keep it a bit generic I think. Imagination can be used to say that a pile of lumber is a mix of different lengths. Made by lumber cutters/mills.

Shingles - for your roofs and some walls, will be wood, made by lumber cutters/mills.

Slate Tiles - for roofs, will be cut from stone by masons.

Stone Bricks - for walls, will be cut from stone by masons.

Logs and stone will still be used, for foundations and for places such as the docks, the Port Royal buildings where they have those large wooden beams supporting the houses in the upper level ones.

Worked Iron - I've previously mentioned cannon, and I think that can be a nice separate thing, but other than that I would like worked iron to probably made straight from iron ore, think of them as custom pieces of iron work to certain buildings that have, for example, bells like the schools and churches.

They are a few examples. You'll see I'm trying to keep them relatively generic, rather than having all of the, literal, bells and whistles such as 5 different types of lumber (boards, slats, framing etc.) and going full blown boxes of nails (although some sort of 'iron fittings' or 'wood fittings' might be an idea) while still adding a bit of individual variation for each building and a little bit more of a complex chain to complete them. One thing I really like about it is that I can make a few more buildings such as mason shops, iron works, etc.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on October 03, 2017, 07:02:16 PM
by "stone brick" do you mean bricks that we have already or actually cut-stone?? if it is cut-stone,i would recommend changing the name to not confuse others.then again it might even depend on languages and be totally a different word.i take it the cannons will be the safe as CC so we can use those too?
        do you have any plans to post workers at those corners?always thought we should have bannies in the CC forts towers but never could think of what to "produce.was glad REd made the new towers to hunt from with the training camp fort.made sence to me to have someone in the watch towers.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Necora on December 01, 2017, 05:26:54 AM
Hello everybody. I just thought I'd stop by and say Hi. I've started a new job lately and it has been taking up most of my time and all of my energy, so I've not done any modding for a while now. But hopefully I will get back into it as there is a lot of stuff I want to do. I had a new idea (well, going back to an old idea that wasn't implemented properly) to re-make the trapping chain and do it properly. I feel that it was kind of half and half in the pine set, and so much more can be done to make it a really cool aspect of the game. Something along the lines of pulling the animals out of the forest and giving them a layer or two, and making a whole new game goal with them. You start with your trapper, who can go out and get pelts. You will be able to trade pelts at specialized buildings such as a native camp and company camp. The native camp will sell you pelts in exchange for certain products, with the cost being dependent on what you sell. So if you sell potatoes, the exchange is bad, but if you sell cannons, the exchange is very good. The company camp will buy your pelts in exchange for coin, depending on the quantity. If you sell 1 pelt, the return is decent (but not good, it is the company after all) but if you sell larger quantities (10, 20, 50, 100) the return gets worse. So you can shift a lot of pelts quickly for a discount, or few pelts over a longer time for a better return. Then, there will be the third option of processing the pelts yourselves into fine clothing. This will get the best returns, but will take you some time in building up the factories and traders needed to turn your trapping camp into a bustling town.

So, it will be a lot of work, and if I can pull it off, I think it will be really cool!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: Maldrick on December 02, 2017, 03:04:24 AM
@Necora Thanks for the update.  Sounds really cool and look forward to seeing what you do with it.

As it happens, just got back from a break myself and having never played with it, I've been screwing around with the full Maritimes set that's been posted so far over the past week or so.  Still getting my bearings, but really enjoy your work.  Lots of unique and interesting production and love the look of it all.  Just wanted to say thanks.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on December 02, 2017, 04:26:16 AM
WB,NILLLA. i am surprised it would even load to try and play if you had done that. it should have ignored the 1.07 mod completely and you would be playing a 1.06 game.how have you been?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: montaiy on January 01, 2018, 02:51:32 PM
Hi I just found your sets and absolutely love them! I have been playing banished since it first came out and use CC so it's so wonderful to find mods that I think are comparable and don't conflict. They are just adorable in terms of the mods and love the new production chains and the dory fishing. Did I miss an update somewhere for the specific trading docks or are they coming in a new update? I was just thinking it would be lovely if you had those as I am using another older set that doesn't recognize your new materials and then I found this looking for some trade items to see if I could make them. I found out by accident your blacksmith made bough tools this way. I am so used to using another bs I had never made the building.  Is there a use for yarn or turpentine I have missed? Also is the soap that is showing up at the traders yours as well?

Thank you so much for the time you put into your mods!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: jone1488 on January 08, 2018, 08:48:08 PM
First off I would like to say your mods are great.  I have really enjoyed playing them.

I really like the combined mod the new pine flora were you combined yours and Tanypredator's starting conditions.

Is it possible to go one step further and add some wild ducks and reeds to it.  My duck hunter are currently unemployed and causing mayhem in my towns.  I tried to talk them into getting a new job but won't listening to me.  So figured I'd ask some ducks.

Again thanks for the great mods.
 
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: adelegarland on January 09, 2018, 08:22:39 AM
http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=249

Here are the ducks!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: donwolfkonecny on April 25, 2019, 07:45:34 PM
Hi I don't know why this thread got abandoned, there was lots happening here and sounds as though more to come. Is Necora still modding?
I'm a returning player and trying to catch up.
I'll say I love the idea of the game not being "flat" which is essentially what the vanilla is where you only get two houses. I love there being a cheap inefficient house I can build cheaply and quickly and get people indoors, and then a series of increasingly better houses that cost more and require advanced materials, take probably more space etc. I'm currently accomplishing that by using multiple mods.
The same for production stuff. I get the feeling, though, that an advanced building should have a diminishing return. Otherwise what happens is the first years is very difficult, then once you get one of every building built, your game is pretty much over after a few years, and you just keep building more of the same, which is when I quit after the first few years because it becomes easy and monotonous. But maybe somehow you HAVE to build more advanced to keep growing, but they offer slim margins of profit, which is true in reality.
I'd also like to see something change about the game as you grow, but perhaps it's not possible via modding. For example, North has a limited amount of gold. So it makes the first years a little easier (once you get a trading post) but this OP good runs out.
Maybe to build the advanced buildings there are materials that cannot be manufactured? Aluminum?
I personally think salt should not be buildable, but salt products very productive or valuable. Some reason you have to trade in large quantity. Currently I generate a lot of food but cannot trade for anything - except other food, why would i do that? Once I can produce all four groups I do not need to trade for food. Perhaps there is always a food group missing from a map? I HAVE to trade my grain for protein??? Or maybe some spice such as salt that is required for any advanced food, and always has to be imported. Cinnamon, cardamom, black pepper.

Anyway, some questions specific to Pine Set. Is there a way the Collect Wild Foods can collect the Pine stuff that spawns in vanilla forests. Because right now it is taking space of vanilla food, but can't be collected, without building buildings to collect and I don't want to have them everywhere, I prefer to collect manually.

Also, your eggs are not recognized as eggs by RKs bakery. I have tons of them, but they are unuseable. I'm trying to bake but there is no way to use these "eggs". Can they be made useable by RKs bakery please?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on April 25, 2019, 08:29:34 PM
it can be set, but the main problem is to get those files because i have no idea of which eggs you are talking. not sure why there is another kind of eggs :S
because i did some nest spawns that give eggs and those are gathered by my gatherers.....

Necora is no longer around for the time being. will comeback one day ? i dunno.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: donwolfkonecny on April 25, 2019, 09:01:52 PM
I took a screenshot but it's very hard to see. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198025509897/screenshots/
I tried using "Snipping Tool" part of windows, but it won't take a snipping from Banished, even with a delay, it flips back to windows.
Anyway, there are two types of eggs. Spelled the same, and same icon, though they look slightly different on the map. One can be used for baking, one cannot.
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on April 25, 2019, 09:28:12 PM
never saw those eggs before. i think or this is a bad planning or i am not catching why the reason of a 2nd egg resource. The game has eggs , why making another egg resource ?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on April 25, 2019, 10:28:36 PM
do you put pine set first in the list ? or RKEC ?
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: RedKetchup on April 25, 2019, 10:59:45 PM
i see Necora made a typo error in his egg file. at some point, in the names inside, he did put an "s" at "eggs" while the vanila eggs dont have an "s" in "egg"
it generate a double egg resource.

maybe try this patch at top. in future maps it will prevent, i think, to get double eggs. i dont think it can make your double eggs disappear inside a save game. it can even make it crash ?? dunno.


try and gimme news
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: donwolfkonecny on April 26, 2019, 07:26:59 AM
Great thanks so much I'll try it next game!
Title: Re: Necora's Work in Progress
Post by: brads3 on April 26, 2019, 09:08:53 AM
there are a few of these typo differences with Necora's mods.they have always been that way ,even with CC. the charcoal was different. it is needed for the maple sap boier. you can get several double tags in the inventory. maple sap,charcoal,eggs,and flax. there may be others depending on mod order. some items might or might not work back and forth between all mods. it will take testing them. there are many different items that Necora's mods can produce. some of the items are needed in processing.

       1 has to be careful. if an item is "fixed" to work 1 way will it still work the other way? example say charcoa works with an RK building. will that charcoal still work for the sap boiler or other pine mod buildings?  can tell you that the sap from CC will not process via the pine mod boiler nor will the PM sap be used vy a CC sap house.

       the easiest way is to keep things the same. whatever mod made the product use it to process the item.if you use KID's breakfast mod, then that mod produces the syrup and other items.using sap from any other mod might or might not work. that is just 1  example.

        there is soo much writing to the codes. 1 word or a different sentence can make the whole mod work different. we are lucky there aren't more conflicts.the modders work hard to prevent them but they are human.the coding for mods is such a tedious project.it was quite amazing to see how fast they coded mods from the 1.06 to the 1.07 upgrade.