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Playing around with smoke

Started by Necora, April 11, 2017, 06:47:53 PM

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Paeng

#45
@Necora - the new WiP of the rapids is cool... the slope pieces are quite challenging to work with   :o  :D

I tried to make a transition from high ground down into a small river here - came out rather credible I think...  :)

Would it be possible to make the -.75 (the lowest one that transitions into the game water) a bit more irregular (like the "edges" for high ground)? When the sides are all square it's hard to transition...

* It may be worth a try to make the models slightly oversized (but maintaining the basic 1x1 square), so it overhangs a bit on all 4 sides...


Once we have more different shore rocks and flora (stuff that does not just hang in the air), this set should make fantastic scenes!  :)


EDIT

Oh, and I tried to coax the DS Fishing spot (from the bridges) to start fishing from the surface water... but no love  :(
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Necora

@Paeng I can make a full set of corner pieces and edge pieces for all heights, then it is totally flexible. I also want to make those irregular edges more apparent and also add a diagonal piece.

Originally, I made just 1 texture that was a splat (for lack of a better word) of water which was slightly larger than a game tile and had irregular edges. The problem with this, and I don't know if it is a Banished thing or a general game thing, is that when you place two meshes with overlapping edges next to each other and the edges are at the same height, the textures 'fight' each other and flicker through one another (plus you get those nasty diagonal shadows). Add some water movement to that, and you have some rather extreme flickering between textures, like the whole thing is vibrating. So that is why I went with the central piece and some edges and corners, so that they sit next to each other more comfortably.

@brads3 and @Abandoned and anyone else who is into a spot of fishing... decisions! So, the traditional game fishing method will not work here, because there is technically no water in the radius. So that means we need to make it like the apiary example, which means we have some decisions to make...

Firstly, functional or decorative?

If functional, should it produce fish out of nothing (like the apiary) or having a consume/produce component?

Do we produce 'fish' like original game or do we add 'bass' and 'perch' and 'trout' and 'whatever else' as new raw materials?

What sort of numbers balancing wise do we go for, some thing with mostly visual fun that produces a little bit of recreational fish every now and then, or something that produces like a full production building, something like 400-500 units of fish a year?

I figure the building itself will be something small, and probably ghosted. How about a version that is a little boat and a version that is land/dock based? What sort of build costs? Remember I have already introduced small boats and am adding fishing gear in various forms as materials for another set so they can be used here.

So much to decide!

I think, I am going to make one more update to this set. I will add a fishing option, and a few more water pieces as mentioned above, perhaps some water falls to step down too. I'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things (although I'm not great at that) and will re-organise the toolbar some how. Then, I think that will be it.

Abandoned

@Necora , so many decisions.  Well, it is certainly decorative, very nice.  It is hard so say about the fishing since the size of the pond is up to the player constructing it.  If it is made large like a small lake, a boat would make sense but for a small pond a shore dock or fishing shack.  Either one I think for only 1 or 2 fishermen at most.  Original fish is good so as not to add more new raw materials but bass or lake perch could be caught from either boat or shore.  Either way amount of fish produced would have to justify using a worker, at least for my way of playing.  So not much help with decision making here  :)  I am sure whatever you decide will turn out well.

Paeng

#48
Quote from: Necora on April 20, 2017, 10:01:27 AMthe textures 'fight' each other and flicker through one another

Oh yeah, I know that "effect"... well, one down   ;)

* seems to be a Banished thing though...


QuoteI'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things

Yeah, random logs that are not in a stockpile are high on my list ever since... for the shores maybe also some driftwood  :)


Whatever you come up with, this is a really rich set with plenty new opportunities to create wild nature settings...  ;D

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elemental

A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

RedKetchup

Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

so much things people can do in this game ^^
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brads3

with the modular idea,we can always decorate the shore as we want. we have several small houses that can be used also. a simple tiny dock fisherman that produces fish would look fine.or  just a guy fishing on the shore,like TOM's trout fisherman. it might be nice to add a rowboat as a decoration,since not everyone uses CC.i would keep the numbers similar to the other fishing spots to make it worthwhile,400-500.if someone makes a pond too small then they can assume the guy went to other ponds or lakes to fish from time to time.and yes i agree keeping to fish is better for the game and menu than too many types. i like ELEMENTAL's ideas of various  rustic styled decor.

elemental

Quote from: RedKetchup on April 20, 2017, 04:24:25 PM
Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 03:23:30 PM
A big log by the roadside that you can just sit on. Perhaps cut in half, or perhaps just round. And a fallen log bridge, maybe?

so much things people can do in this game ^^

Actually @RedKetchup  you have already made the nicest logs in the game. (no offence to any other modders who have made logs intended.) Those logs you put next to your medieval kiln look great. Would love to see them or maybe something a bit bigger as a roadside decoration, as I said before, just somewhere people can sit. I know bannies don't sit even when idling. Purely for decoration.

RedKetchup

Quote from: elemental on April 20, 2017, 04:58:32 PM
Actually @RedKetchup  you have already made the nicest logs in the game. (no offence to any other modders who have made logs intended.) Those logs you put next to your medieval kiln look great. Would love to see them or maybe something a bit bigger as a roadside decoration, as I said before, just somewhere people can sit. I know bannies don't sit even when idling. Purely for decoration.

i can maybe add those to Traning Camp: Deco :)
i will have to make an update someday anyways for offering those horses without saddles :)
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elemental

Sounds like a very good idea.  ;)

QueryEverything

#55
Quote from: Necora on April 20, 2017, 10:01:27 AM
----
Firstly, functional or decorative?

If functional, should it produce fish out of nothing (like the apiary) or having a consume/produce component?

Do we produce 'fish' like original game or do we add 'bass' and 'perch' and 'trout' and 'whatever else' as new raw materials?

What sort of numbers balancing wise do we go for, some thing with mostly visual fun that produces a little bit of recreational fish every now and then, or something that produces like a full production building, something like 400-500 units of fish a year?

I figure the building itself will be something small, and probably ghosted. How about a version that is a little boat and a version that is land/dock based? What sort of build costs? Remember I have already introduced small boats and am adding fishing gear in various forms as materials for another set so they can be used here.

So much to decide!

I think, I am going to make one more update to this set. I will add a fishing option, and a few more water pieces as mentioned above, perhaps some water falls to step down too. I'll try and make some more decorations such as logs and things (although I'm not great at that) and will re-organise the toolbar some how. Then, I think that will be it.

@Necora this is how I see my fishing spot (others may agree or disagree :D )

-- A pond scenario would have a small standing area (with deck chairs & lobster pots ghosted decos), room enough for 2-3 people, fishing whilst beautiful alone, is often done in small groups of 2 or 3 in my local area, families, most times with friends.

-- A fisherperson would catch no less than 125 (150-200+ ~), enough to feed themselves, and a little for their table, or the community food basket

-- Also, perhaps introduce Yabbying :) ;) 

-- A little lake, or rivers edge scenario would have a dock and boat, just a small one, enough for a couple of river dinghy style boats to be moored to it.  In which case, using your little boats from the shore fishing, (although, will that make this mod dependant on the other mod???) to fish, these would catch more than the handline fishing above (400-500+).  You would certainly catch larger fish, and given the game doesn't do that, the value of the fish then should be increased.
These could be used in the same way as you have them now, dependant on other consumables, or, have a 'slower' rate of fishing. 

-- Fish species - a couple ways of doing it.  For those that want diversity, have a few different 'common' types of fish, that gets handled as individual fish, and each fish has a different trade value (the large fish would have more trade than the smaller ones).   OR   Introduce a next step (like @Discrepancy fishmonger) it takes 'fish' and changes it to A B C.
- OR Have the diverse fish, but use a 'cleaning bench', that cleans & fillets the species to "Fish", which can then be used in other mods, recipes, and drying racks etc.

--  I like the idea of a drying shed, a small river side one, that takes a large amount of fish, but on a small footprint (tall though, to hang the fish).  That can then produce the fish further, and increase the value.  I have a pinterest board with some ideas I've found in the last few weeks.

-- These are just a couple of ideas I've had, but I'm certainly open to a couple of different ways of fishing, I would (at a minimum) allow a number of people to fish in each spot, as I find fishing a lovely bonding experience.  :)
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QueryEverything

#56
Phew, what an interesting couple of hours, I've had a chance to play around with a few settings, some ideas were a hit, others ...  well ... thank goodness for saves!!  ;)

@Necora I really do enjoy the new Riffle mod, it's quite nice and adds a new design element.  I've had some time with it, and this is what I've come up with.
Please excuse the bad layout, it's not decorative I was going for possibilities, not 'pretty'.  In saying that though, I couldn't find half the decorations that you & @Paeng have used in your screenshots, so I probably just haven't seen where the decos are, or ....  anyway ...  Function over Form at this point, lol.

1)  May we please have a -1.0 level as well.  I like the -.75 but when working around other mods that have been lowered, as you can see, they are lower still, and the water hasn't 'gelled' with it as much as I would like.
2)  Lower pieces, may we please have some lovely corners?
3)  May we please have some higher level riffles?  (I know that it's a possibility that the way I've terraformed, and the HUGE landmass I've used may have distorted the tiles etc, and may be why I'm not getting any pretty effect.
4)  May we please have some more decorations (over time, that's ok)
5)  May we please have some land tiles, that conform with the tile?  Or, a 'road' that suits the design. 
5.a)  Or, if introducing a fishing site of some form, ghosted please to place on any surface. :)  (You can see why below).

Now ...  I've manage to fish!!  And as you can see, also use other dock pieces from other mods :)  There's a trick to it.

1)  Use the Terraform tool produced by @kralyerg which is either in Mega Mod (if you use it) OR stand alone from the BL forums.  (Linked here)
2)  Add in all the objects you want, dock pieces etc
3)  Add in a small fishing spot - I use a couple, including @Tom Sawyer fishing mod (yellow) (Fly Fishing)
4)  Fill in with the water texture tiles.


A couple of things to note:
-- The terraform tool will work anywhere on the map, allowing you to 'fish' anywhere. 
-- You will need to fiddle with the settings a bit to get the Fly Fishing spot just right, because it isn't 'ghosted' you can't put it on a path, or on the dock, but, it gives you a starting place
-- I used a combination of all terraform heights and those in Necora's mod to get things as close as I could to being functional and pretty.
-- I used a 20x20 square, no doubt it would look nicer, and easier to decorate in a small spot. 


Oh, lastly, it looks lovely in Winter, like a beautiful ice skating rink. :) :)

Over all, I love the mod, it really adds a new dimension.  Thank you @Necora for the effort you put in to this.


So, here are the screenshots, pretty crappy, sorry folks. 
(See @Nilla my square world :D ;)  hahaha)



{update}  I can confirm that "Tiny Fisherman" (green) by @kid1293 does work; "Arch Bridge Fishing Spot" (purple) by @Discrepancy also does work. 
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brads3

QUERY nice test. i wondered about the terraform idea when i 1st loaded this set but it was late so i didnt try it. in your 2nd pic down on the left side of the lake ,i take it that is terraformed and not sloped via NECORA's mod?hence the sharp banks. as for corners and more heights,be careful what you wish for. there is so many icons that look the same it is hard now to figure out. i think the dig outs work well and slope the land more so than the old way. that alone can give us edges and corners.to me the flats at different depths and the sloped water with the dig outs would be enough icons and give us several options. along with the riffles/rapids we could desing our own lakes or streams.i did get some ideas from PAENG on how to set it up. i figure simple is easier for the modder to code and build and doesn't crowd the toolbar either. now that we have this and as others get to test it, other modders could add to it or use it to make other mods. NECORA already hinted at a waterfall. a smaller easier mod would be better to add to other mods as well-less coding.
      we have 3 modders now changing the texture and game play dramatically. i am sure in time this ideas will be expanded on by other modders. the fodder set by RED can be used to feed livestock to produce milk,etc. the meadows from BARTENDER have opened up the maps. i'm sure some will want more houses to use the thatch. hopefully more uses of it as well.

Necora

#58
@QueryEverything I'm surprised the fishing worked, does the vanilla building? I didn't know that lowering terrain made it act like water, as no water is there. What level did you lower it to? It might still not be the best bet for this mod though, considering you'd have to make a huuuuge pond for them to be worth while, and I think these suit more for smaller, winding/islandly ponds otherwise the texture might get quite repetitive.

So I have hit a bit of an issue and am hoping someone like @RedKetchup @kid1293 @Discrepancy @Bartender @Tom Sawyer @tanypredator might be able to help me out. These water tiles are just a 1m x 1m plane with a texture applied (so 1 face) that are about 5cm elevated, to prevent interference with the ground beneath (not sure if I need that or not though). There is then another .5m x .5m plane floating 5cm above these, which has the UV channel unwrapped to give it sway movement. Both planes have the same texture, which has been given MaritimesWaterMaterial.rsc. This is a copy of the foliage material, only it doesn't produce shadows (thanks to @Bartender ). Now, the problem I am having is that if I rotate the pieces, or spin the camera around when they are placed, they will disappear at a certain rotation. Poof, completely vanish. I have tried reverting to the foliagematerial, but it does the exact same thing.

Does anyone know why this might be happening? The strange thing is, the turbulence pieces do have the exact same material and they are fine. It is just these water tiles and I cannot figure out why.

Also someone like @Paeng or @QueryEverything can you tell me if this happens on the version you have?


EDIT - Nevermind, fixed it. It was the scale.

QueryEverything

Quote from: Necora on April 23, 2017, 05:51:11 AM
@QueryEverything I'm surprised the fishing worked, does the vanilla building? I didn't know that lowering terrain made it act like water, as no water is there. What level did you lower it to? It might still not be the best bet for this mod though, considering you'd have to make a huuuuge pond for them to be worth while, and I think these suit more for smaller, winding/islandly ponds otherwise the texture might get quite repetitive.

So I have hit a bit of an issue and am hoping someone like @RedKetchup @kid1293 @Discrepancy @Bartender @Tom Sawyer @tanypredator might be able to help me out. These water tiles are just a 1m x 1m plane with a texture applied (so 1 face) that are about 5cm elevated, to prevent interference with the ground beneath (not sure if I need that or not though). There is then another .5m x .5m plane floating 5cm above these, which has the UV channel unwrapped to give it sway movement. Both planes have the same texture, which has been given MaritimesWaterMaterial.rsc. This is a copy of the foliage material, only it doesn't produce shadows (thanks to @Bartender ). Now, the problem I am having is that if I rotate the pieces, or spin the camera around when they are placed, they will disappear at a certain rotation. Poof, completely vanish. I have tried reverting to the foliagematerial, but it does the exact same thing.

Does anyone know why this might be happening? The strange thing is, the turbulence pieces do have the exact same material and they are fine. It is just these water tiles and I cannot figure out why.

Also someone like @Paeng or @QueryEverything can you tell me if this happens on the version you have?


I haven't tried with the vanilla building, I can do so tomorrow.  I don't see it being a problem.  When you dig really low using @kralyerg terrain mod, it goes to dark blue, (as per screenshot) and acts like water, your PEI's were producing as much as the river placed ones were.


I noticed that if I overlaid some of the water pieces (to fill in other holes), that I got a flicker, where the 2 were trying to reflect over the other.


Ok, building a new pond, using the terraform tool.
1)  Start with Tool "terraform level 2", this has the effect of terraforming to the level of the river water.  "this is approximately the level of the rivers and lakes".
2)  Attempt to place Vanilla fishing spot, if it can't be placed, create a row (I did 3) of level 1 water, (this approx the level of the small creeks) on the inside of the 'pond', attempt to place the fishing spot.
3)  Decorate :)


Notes
I found that when I reduced the area to ~15x23 the large Vanilla one didn't produce however, the 'tiny & mini' fishing spots did produce, 51, so... more recreation only
Your fisheries however produced, completely unaffected by the smaller radius and the land mass around them.  They all performed as expected.
This would mean that you could create a small fishing spot, and with a deeper terrain tool, you can create an inland, pond fishing hole, based on your current code and mods.
:)


Excellent work @Necora now all I need to do is figure out how to use the riffles ...  lol  and how to highlight / design with the decos.  :)


Please note - again, function first - I managed to get a better slope line (you can see on the left of the Fisherman dock) using a combo of your terrain tools, it's not pretty, but this is a temp map :D

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