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Build requirements

Started by Necora, August 23, 2017, 08:12:22 AM

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Necora

Hello everybody,

I booted up banished for the first time in quite a while and found that it updated itself, and on further inspection I see we have a new release/mod kit with the ability to add more build requirements.

Now I've searched around the forum (albeit briefly) to find a discussion on this but am really not a fan of crawling through threads to find what I am looking for, so decided to start a new one. If there has already been this discussion, please point me to it.

Firstly, is there a limit? The example uses 6, but no where does it say that there is a max limit you can have.

I also want to get a feel for how players and modders a like feel about these new requirements, and how in depth you want to take this?

For example, do you want to keep things as they are but just be able to add more of the major build resources to a building, such as wood, lumber, bricks, glass, joists, etc.

Or, do you want to open up to more possibilities such as a carpenter who makes things like 'fittings', 'beams' and 'shingles' from wood? So you have lumber for frames, and then other wood works added too. I'm sure people don't want to go as detailed as nails and screws, but there are a couple of extra professions, workplaces, and interesting items that could be added to the requirements for buildings.

I'm thinking along the lines of a few small ghosted work places (I mean, really small) and a set of coverings you can put in a build site. Each one has 1 worker who can craft a certain build requirement, such as lumber from wood, fittings from wood, shingles from wood, slate from stone, stone bricks from stone etc. that would give a little more realism to how we build things in game. Then, you can have larger buildings that mass produce these things, and also have more advanced versions of them for advanced buildings.

Anyway, let me know what you think, as I'm just pondering where next to take the mods when I get back into making things.

embx61

To find out if more then six is possible is to just try it :)
If it crashes we know 6 is the limit.

I personally can live well with 6.

Glass, bricks, roof tiles, thatch, lumber are a few I can think of. I think about adding varnish/paint to the mix so that finally that Linseed oil get a use.

Lots of possibilities as long as the balance stays about right.
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Tom Sawyer

Welcome back! We discussed it here for example: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1634.msg35963#msg35963

I will use it for window glass in addition to wood, bricks and tiles and in some cases for special requirements like steel and gold. I don't know if there is a limit beyond 6 mats. I will probably not use more than 5 for a nice tooltip but feel free to experiment with it. And it would be nice if you write a feedback to Luke that it works and can out of beta. Red and me did it already. :)

RedKetchup

#3
i started to use those in multiplex 3 story.

my plan are to seperate the building cost as :

wood beams/floor/studs : RawMaterialWood
walls + foundations : RawMaterialWood or RawMaterialStone or RawMaterialBrick
random inside added : RawMaterialIron (or RawMaterialStone if walls are in wood* or bricks)
windows : RawMaterialGlass
roof : RawMaterialWood or RawMaterialRooftile

as the model are changing (from full wood to stone to bricks) i change the numbers or play with those numbers
nothing to prevent me to even use wood like 3-4 times for each category (a wood amount for beams, a wood amount for walls, a wood amount for roof) The game keep those number seperated and does not stack them because they are from same raw material file... it keeps them seperated. (* Edit : the game keep them seperated but the total amount gathered on the site will show a total number equal to the total needed : like 34 of 24 wood gathered)

You need to not entirely follow the example provided : you need to make you own files with a personalized name file ( not use and modify Build.rsc file )
or you will get every building windows use the extended form ( even if the building cost only 1x12 wood total you will get a long empty 6 item window; which is very bad looking)
so do your own file and call it NECbuild.rsc if you want , and call this NECbuild.rsc when you need it (and dont call it when you dont need it) in the UI paragraph of the template.

i really doubt you should go up to the number of screws or nails lol
you need to count that everything in the game as a minimum of 1 weight so if you need to add 3200 nails for 1 wood house... and you have a BS that makes 5000 nails with 1 iron bar ..... everythng has a minimum of 1 weight ^^ you will have storage problems :) unless maybe you go for "box of nails" or "box of screws" units.

but ya, make you own files, do a NECbuild5.rsc / NECbuild6.rsc .... i didnt tested how far it can go and if you can go further than 6 items.
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Tom Sawyer

Yep, could be just a pack of nails made by a blacksmith. I also thought about it but maybe too complicated for a lot of people. I like how you want to count your building mats. It's cool to have a logic behind...

RedKetchup

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 23, 2017, 10:34:21 AM
I like how you want to count your building mats. It's cool to have a logic behind...

me too i like it and think thats cool :)

as you can see the edited screenshot, depending of some of the texture set. i played with numbers depending if the houses are looking in wood , or looking in stone or bricks, depending if i use a wood shingles roof texture or i use a rooftile texture. i play with the building mats categories and their numbers ^^

i presently use a NMT30build.rsc at 6 slots... and if i will never use all 6 ... i will probably end up to reduce it to 5 slots.
and if later i ll need a 6 slot one ... i ll do another one with 6 slots.
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brads3

NECORA,you bring up an interesting question. to make things easy on us players and the modders,i vote not to change the buildings that have already been made.i would hate to see RED redo every building in NMT to add glass and other materials.it already is a ton of work for him to upgrade the sets in that mod.as players we are used to being able to place a building and not worry about what material we may or may not have.that is a problem that does come with the production chains of any addititional materials,like CC has.
    going forward,i don't see a problem designing things differently.but let's try not to be overly complicated.CC did things with the building supply and glass.problem is things are out of balance.you need x amount of materials to be able to make a few supplies for each building. it can get overwhelming.as others here at WOB have stated,the inventory becomes clogged and a mess.yet what RED and TOM did with the roof tiles does work well.
    i think it will depend on how we use the limit flags to control things.not to pick on RED, but let's take the fodder mod for example.the entire production except food is under 1 limit.hence,in game 1 of 2 things happens. either you stop it all and therefore it runs out of fodder at the bottom of the chain and can't produce food,or you keep upping the limit and produce more and more fertilizer and fodder. it still hits the limit with flowers even after RED tweaked the limits and outputs.i get the same kind of issues with CC's building materials and production chains.there shoud be a way to stage things so that we have better control.say you want enough tiles for 10 buildings,you set a limit and the chain works to that point. it doesn't stop the clay or tile maker because clay is above the limit.at the same timw though,the tile maker won't swamp barns with a huge surplus of tiles.
    the other thing that we wish,is if LUKE would make a way to organize the inventory by item flag.all food listed,all minerals,all construction material,etc,instead of all jammed or mixed together.that would be a huge improvement.

RedKetchup

i redo all the multi story houses because i want to fix some other problem : reduce the size, and fix the height which we all saw, they were too high.
i also wanted to delete the upgrade system because many people were frustrated to have to build a stone one and upgrade it to bricks.
and i wanted to provide variants with all 8 textures i use now.

btw also, they will also be a bit compatible with the NMT Little Housing mod to a certain point :) (screenshots)


i hear you @brads3  about the fodder/fertilizer problem (specially the flower/perfume flag) .... maybe i can up with a solution for those.

about glass: i will try to make as good and as easy as bricks/rooftiles chains

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brads3

oh it wasn't a complaint,RED. i was just trying to use a chain for example that most are familiar with.i have learned to work with it and it is better since you tweaked the fodder.
   to give another example,clothing actually does work. we can turn down the clothing but up the textile.so early in game i can stockpile pelts or furs for later.but my tailor stops at the limit and goes helping out as a laborer.firewood is another,you can control on 2 fronts.and both parts work independant of each other.sadly CC quit about the time the new flags came about. they gave us the updated version but it doesn't fully utilize the limit functions the way it should.

Gatherer

My 2 cents:

Logs, Iron, Stone, Bricks, Rooftiles, Lumber, Glass. A combo of 4-6 of these should work best in any situation.

Personally as a player I don't need more than that to build with. I do understand though if modders want to add some other stuff (paint, joists, etc.). In that case I'll be buying those from the traders. I have no intention of running production chains for boxes of nails.
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Fiat panis.