Author Topic: Nilla-testing the North6  (Read 13239 times)

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Offline Hawk

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #105 on: January 13, 2018, 07:00:36 PM »
they are bannies not people. you got to think weird to figure them out. ;D

LOL! I heard that. LOL!
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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #106 on: January 14, 2018, 01:52:27 AM »
they are bannies not people. you got to think weird to figure them out. ;D
You nailed it @brads3:D

There's not much to tell from my town. It grows slowly. At the moment there are a lot of young males but no young females. We're also in a period of many cold summers and sometimes, there's mostly proteins left before the new harvest starts. We need some herbs, but my Bannis manage.

I've also struggled a bit to get enough firewood. It was never any problem, but when the store slowly gets smaller each spring, it's time to take action. It looks like I can't expand fast enough. I suppose these old houses need a lot of firewood and the smokers and brickmaker also need some. I looked a bit and saw something; I mean, that you wrote somewhere @Tom Sawyer, that choppers are one of the professions, that don't lose efficiency with uneducated workers. But they do. They only make 3 firewood from each log.

I don't know, how long I like to continue this game. The harvest is quite boring. I need so many fields, that I have to stop the game, to start the harvest. It's OK to start the harvest manually, as long as there are a few fields, but here, NO! I can't recommend farming in a larger North settlement on harsh. The question is; is it possible to support a larger settlement without farming? I'm not sure. It was possible in the last version, but here I have the impression, that it's harder to get good pay for your trading goods. I want to find out in my next game. Do you plan any changes soon? I would volunteer to test your ideas of unhappiness, if you have come any further. Let me know. @Tom Sawyer.

First picture

I may have shown similar over-all-pictures before, but I find it looks nice. The sisters I spoke of yesterday, lived in the marked house and the new houses are all in the north, outside this picture. And there are a lot of houses with young adults closer to the new homes.

Second picture

The first fire.

This summer was very warm and the winter came late, so the harvest was huge. There are a lot of turnips in the stores. There were two bad summers in a row. Turnips is the crop, that grows the best, so I changed some of the barley to turnips to get more food.

Third picture

Small industry area. We are waiting for educated workers. It takes long! You can also see the many single males.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #107 on: January 14, 2018, 02:53:02 AM »
I was pulling your leg, Nilla. I had to change the way I play because of the harsh life in the North mod specially in the Anders and Ella start. Now I build a house of four and keep the children after adulthood until I'm sure there are plenty of food to support more households. Otherwise, they die of starvation.
No parents should bury their children. The same aspect goes to nomads too. They die if there's not enough food. Fishing is the main source of food, but, I have to make sure there's at least a fishingman in each household. For that, I have to build widely apart the houses.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #108 on: January 14, 2018, 03:38:48 AM »
Haha yes, excessive.. actually just kidding. My personal challenge to make this speed aging unnecessary in Banished. :)

I think you have reached the limits of the medieval part of the mod with your big village on this rather small piece of land (the limits of farming in harsh climate anyway). It's shown in the short coming firewood, restrictions in trading and efficiency at all. It even forced you to go partly into modern age already. I like if it becomes a rather gradual process forced by requirements of a growing settlement and not by just placing modern looking houses.

Educated people would not make more than 3 firewood from a log but modern time brings sustainable forestry and of course less fuel consuming houses and also the opportunity to mine coal as alternative fuel to heat houses when wood becomes rare. To build an export economy as strategy in harsh climate the small Viking docks with their barter traders are too limited. Building trading posts (which have to be replaced by new models one day) will change it into a money based economy as you know from version 5. It also brings dalers in game as currency of late game for merchants with way more purchasing power.

A new test version with reworked happiness system I would like to make. But have to solve some problems with that. For example to find a replacement for the "health" aspect. I don't want the hospital to provide happiness. It should be build in the periphery, not in center of a town with idling people there to infect the whole population and so on. Maybe it can be utilized by items for "recreation" or something else. At least the mod needs a reasoned set of happiness providers before I reduce the default happiness.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #109 on: January 14, 2018, 05:02:28 AM »
What about a witch's hut or lady of the dead?

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #110 on: January 14, 2018, 11:16:05 AM »
@Turis, have you tried the "instant gathering" tool? That's my main source of food at the beginning in a small settlement. In summer everyone have to go out in the woods to collect food. Besides Anders and Ella also can grow turnips. You don't need a farmer all time, just to plant and harvest. If you use these two food sources and the "instant hunting" tool now and then, you'll never need to have food problems at the beginning.

And you are so right @Tom Sawyer, I'm pretty sure, that I've reached the limits for "old times" on this map. Normally I would have entered the "modern times" much earlier. But as I said, I wanted to see how "old times" work in a bit larger settlement. And now we know, that it works fine. I also like to reach the limits of a map. It's a nice challenge to try to manage anyway.

"Recreation" sounds good. Isn't the brewery in vanilla, some kind of recreation? In any case, I would like your inn to have a larger importance. So far I use to build one in my games, just because I like the building, but I never really use it. Unless you've changed some settings, I never have enough raw material (blueberries for liqueur, annoying crayfishes) to use it. I also find your witch idea excellent, @Turis . We don't even need an extra building. Use the herbalist as "happinessmaker". It's much better than the hospital. With a good diet and a good distribution of goods, herbalists are of little use anyway (unless you want to trade the valuable herbs they collect). Let them tell the fortune of people, make love portions, curse the evil neighbor and other "witch crafts", that make people happy! ;)

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #111 on: January 16, 2018, 05:14:13 AM »
I've left the village Abbevi. It will probably be unpleasant for the inhabitants, if it continues to grow. But about that, we'll never know. Maybe some of the inhabitants will go away, maybe to another settlement in the neighborhood, maybe even to Elkville. Who knows.......

Anyhow, I played until the first student left school. She was 16 and I guess she lived close to a school. I had other 16 year old students who moved out. That's not good on a big map. Normally they will move far away from the school and it takes "for ever" until they are done with school, because they spend more times "on the road" than in school. In this case, it was my own fault. There were several young single males in houses of their own and no adult young females. But is it this way in a more "normal" settlement, where schools are built earlier?

We discussed the other day, how to decrease the time a single youngster live in a house alone. It would be good, to have the time short in a "old times" game, without schools. But I think it's different in a game with schools. It's not good, if a lot of students move out. The best would be, if the student who lives on an average distance from school, would graduate before he/she reach the age to move out. So what's good without schools, might be bad with schools, unless the time in school is short. Not easy to solve in a good way.

Now I have decided to test how these things work in another game. In my new game I will enter the "modern times" as fast as possible: build a school fast and support the settlement more with trade; no tedious farms on "harsh".

There is one small thing, that was a bit disturbing on this map. Farmers work in many of these smaller buildings; workplace, bakery, diary hut, smokers, salters.... Often you can change the production between different things. In a small settlent, this is perfect. But not in this big village. I ran out of salt. No problems by the salters; just turn them off, but I let the diaries produce skyr instead of cheese. After a while, I could buy some salt and turned the salters on and wanted to change the production in the diaries, but it wasn't easy to find the buildings. The same, if I produce wool clothes in some workplace and find, that it's enough. I have to remember where I had this production and that's not easy. I had at least 10 of these workplaces. There are several other of these small "annoyances". If there was a special profession, I would have clicked the menu and found them at once.

Now, I guess you will not use the workplaces in the same way in "modern times". There are other (as I hope) more efficient buildings to grind flour and make clothes. But I think diaries, smokers, salter will still make sense in a large modern settlement. This is another thing I want to test in my new game.

First picture

A last picture from Abbevi. You can see why I say it might be unpleasant, if the settlement continues to grow. I've cut in the production. On good years (last) production of food it's a little bit more than they use, but on bad years (this) much less. Also the production the last 10 years wasn't sustainable. (cut in)

Second picture

Elkville (first random name). Starting position. Map and settings cut in. I have the same mods loaded as in my last game. Except The North and Norseman (!!!  ;) :D) I don't know, if I'm going to use any of the others. I'm also thinking about loading the salt- and leatherworks from @embx61, the blast furnice from @Discrepancy (is it compatible?) and maybe something else. I'll tell you if I do.

Third picture

Year 3. Everyone have a house and a coat. Some have tools but I had to stop the production. I planned to make 6 tools to begin with, so I needed to make 9 iron. No problem that far, even if it took some time. But one of the Bannis loved the iron so much, that he carried it around year or more. Now @Turis, they are all busy collecting food out in the woods, but more tools will be produced, as soon as the frost comes.

Fourth picture

This settlement is weird. There is one boy (just adult) and 4 girls. I built a house out in the woods for young Austice, just to make room for a little brother, but no brother was born. It was a third sister. I had to restart the game, to get that first baby boy. Also the other family, who had two small girls got a third baby; a girl. I had to reload 3 (!!!) times , Issa is really a boy!  :-\ :D

Anyway, everything works well; there's food, firewood, clothes and tools. So they wanted to praise the Lord. No objections. Expansion next. I hope the nomads bring boys for all my girls and no Scarlet Fever.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #112 on: January 16, 2018, 07:45:33 AM »
Hmmms... Nice place to raid and take a few slaves to work in my household and fields. ;)

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #113 on: January 16, 2018, 08:27:08 AM »
hmmm,ne careful what you wish for. there are so many different ideas to the way ages are dealt with,you might start a stampede.most didn't like the bannies moving out at 10 and marrying young.it is a juggle to find a balance between what players want and what works well with the game.with you only needing educated workers on certain jobs,how "lucky" does the game put educated workers where you want them?if educated workers would do the right jobs,you could try a smaller school and only educate some bannies instead of all. since you like to play medievel,do you want them marrying and having children at 13? i'll duck from everyone throwing knives or pans at us. doing that you could school them 6-12 years of age.by the way,the distance to school doesn't impact all age mods.that factor was taken out of the propertime mod.

      i take it from your explanation that the workplaces use laborers or some how are set to just farmers.they are interesting but i can see you have good and bad points. with large towns, it isn't easy to remember where every building is. what i find that works is to set different shops to different items and use the limit to control them. as 1 runs out of material,they become an extra laborer. i do this with small blacksmiths and tailors.with the pine mod,i am putting out minimum 3 types of coats. in early game i can switch a tailor, after a while it is easier to have 3 shops.1 for leather,pelts,and 1 for furs.the clothing limit controls them. i do same thing with tools,start with stone tools and work up to iron or steel.this is also an insuance policy to prevent running out due to a material shortage.
     i would like to hear more on how your workplaces work up there. TOM has definetly added some interesting tools.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #114 on: January 16, 2018, 08:42:50 AM »
Beware, Nilla! They are already at my gates with torches and pitchforks. Now they want to raid and enslave your people. Not sure what to do.. maybe developing as fast as possible to leave the old days before they come.^^

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #115 on: January 16, 2018, 09:56:43 AM »
Hm ! As I said, I play this game because I don't have to battle and develop weapon, but these people are vikings, or at least viking decentants, so you are welcome @Turis. We'll see who enslave who. There will soon be some "nice" mines in this settlement. Workers are always welcome. ;)

Well @brads3, I don't actually wish for anything in this case. I only describe what I see, how it works and my thoughts about possible changes. Im, also well aware, that this is only valid here, in my game, with my preferences. Others see it different. I know that.

Yes, I plan to put the educated people, where I want them. Not the way you "suggest" by only educate some. I will educate all and build new houses, where I want these educated people. I do the same or rather the opposite in a "normal" game, if I take uneducated nomads and everyone else is educated. They can't live "where they want". I use to make "ghettos" for uneducated (OK, normally these houses look the same as the rest, sometimes even nicer) where they are far away from "critical" professions like blacksmiths and tailors. In this game I will build the houses for the young educated close to such "facilities". It's not totally foolproof but mostly it works.

I know, that the distance from school doesn't matter in some of these mods, but I don't like it;one more thing, that normally has to be planned, is taken away. It "flattens" the game; makes it easier and less interesting.

The workplaces use farmers. And if you have 100 farmers it's not possible to find the right one. But it's good, if you have few. When the harvest is done, you just close the field and the farmer goes into the workplace and in spring, you close the workplace. No changes of professions. You also know where the farmer is; close to home, to get to his fields in time and not "out in the woods".

I have no workplace yet in this village, but I'll show you the options, when I've built one.

Offline Turis

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #116 on: January 16, 2018, 10:08:19 AM »
News have reached warning you of men armed with spears, axes and shields marching toward your village chanting continuosly: "Fish... We want fish!"

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #117 on: January 16, 2018, 10:50:09 AM »
i see. so there is some manual manipulation to the workplaces but they only hire farmers. it is different. i doubt it can be full auto where the farmers go to the workplaces only in winter after the fields are harvested.thank you for the added info.be good to see some outputs.

     not sure how i feel with that setup. there is good and bad, but i think it is the way the game let TOM code it. it is 1 way of trying to make the bannies do work like people really did way back then. i thought of a homestead farm idea,that would do similar in total outputs.would have to be a fairly large footprint. a house,small storage,field,fruit tree,and a small pasture and animal shed.function as a workplace for 2 workers that gives enough food,tools,clothing,etc that the family needs plus like 25% more.TOM's way does similar in using the 2 bannies to get 2 different goods each year.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #118 on: January 16, 2018, 11:05:10 AM »
Beware, Nilla! They are already at my gates with torches and pitchforks. Now they want to raid and enslave your people. Not sure what to do.. maybe developing as fast as possible to leave the old days before they come.^^


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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #119 on: January 17, 2018, 07:12:40 AM »
It seems like I scared every potential looter with my viking warnings. Everything is peaceful.   ;D

You're right @brads3, these seasonal changes of work, aren't fully automatic and I agree, I don't think it's possible to make it that way. But there isn't much micromanagement. Autumn; open the workplace, close the field, open the field again. Spring; close the workplace and the farmer finds his field. One thing; it's bad, if you forget to close the workplace in time, before the sawing has to start. No way of playing in 10X speed. I made a screenshot from my workplace, extra for you @brads3. Look at picture 4.

First picture

I know, that you are clever @Tom Sawyer, but how you can build a teenage rebellion function into your mod, is admirable! ;)

I don't know how this started. I only noticed, that I had a charburner on a whole winter and only 6 charcoal was produced. I couldn't understand why. There was enough firewood, no limits were reached. I found this young Austice idling at the (empty) graveyard. I closed the charcoal burner and made him a laborer. He stayed at the graveyard, even though it was plenty of work to be done. I looked at him the whole summer. He only left a few times; to get home to grab something to eat, then back to the graveyard. Next winter the same; unfortunately, he again was assigned charcoaler and continued to protest against this dirty, hard work. This year we really needed the charcoal, so I had to build a second burner. This made Austice a herbalist ; a profession to his liking. He actually started to work! Not as herbalist. It was winter and during the winter herbalist do laborers work. He was diligent; picking firewood in the forest (blueberries last summer was below his dignity), and he carried heavy logs to the building site. Teenage protest time over!

Can anyone explain this in another way. ???

Second picture

Again a 39 year old nomad woman. I need a lot of children at the beginning. I made a test. I went back to the autosave. It was just before the nomads arrived. This time the woman was much younger. I will not do this often, but it's good to know, that it's possible.

Third picture

I must show you Austice. He's 17 years old and the rebellious time has passed. Now he even works as a charcoaler! :) ;)

Fourth picture

Here @brads3 is your workplace. The picture shows all options. At the moment it's only used to grind flour from wheat I bought. The profit isn't very high; 69 flour from 60 grain. But that's alright, the productivity is quite high and the following baker increases the amount of food more, 24 flour gives 36 bread. It's all uneducated worker and I don't know, if there's a difference, if they are educated.

Just after I made this screenshot, I got some sheep and will soon start to make wool coats. In my other settlement, I also made some ale, when I had a lot of barley (ale counts as grain). The profit of ale is small, but it's fun to make. I also made leather from cow hides, winter coats and jam from berries and bought sugar.