Author Topic: Nilla-testing the North6  (Read 12709 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online kid1293

  • Modders
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2710
  • Country: se
  • Never confuse movement with progress
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #15 on: December 12, 2017, 02:48:33 AM »
Very funny and learning!
Luke provided the basic ingredients.
Modders add their tools and utensils.
Players are the cooks, all trying to make that perfect soup. :)

@Tom Sawyer - I am not off-topic. You have created a completely new
school of 'cooking' the perfect game. I look forward to testing it.
Specially those new numbers for vegs and fruit.
It will need more attention than a casual vanilla game.

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
  • Country: se
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #16 on: December 12, 2017, 07:04:12 AM »
Frankly, I don't use any statistics menus. I just check that they have food, tools, clothes and firewood.

NOOOOOO- statistics is a big part of the fun! ;)  :D

Very funny and learning!
Luke provided the basic ingredients.
Modders add their tools and utensils.
Players are the cooks, all trying to make that perfect soup. :)

Very nice said, Kid!

@Tom Sawyer - I am not off-topic. You have created a completely new
school of 'cooking' the perfect game. I look forward to testing it.

Yes, it's really somehow a new game. Much is the same, but still you have to think a lot "out of the box" and make things different, if you play the North. That's why I've liked this mod so much from the start. The neat familiar looking buildings are one thing; very nice but what really got me "hooked" are the gameplay changes. :) Can't thank you enough @Tom Sawyer for all the fun!

A few more year has gone in my viking village. Everything is peaceful, no more "berserk huntresses". ;) I'll show some pictures.

First picture

My gatherers have started to work. Now they collect food every year. Sometimes more, sometimes less. It's OK. Mostly the gatherer from the Forest outpost collects more food and less firewood than the Nordic gatherer. I don't know, if it's random or somehow different numbers. I also don't know, what would happen with more than 1 gatherer in each site. I have more food than I need, so I haven't tried, yet.

You can also see a field on the picture. I bought some turnip seeds. Turnips grow well in a harsh climate, but to get a good harvest, you have to start it manually. Later I also bought barley (grows well) and rye (didn't grow that well the one year I had the seeds, but I will give it a couple of years more)

Second picture

You can't store much goods in a trading dock. I can't say, yet, if I find it too small. It will show. In any case, it will be a bit of challenge to build a trade based economy with these small trading docks. I'm looking forward to give it a try. In any case; my usual strategy to store goods, I don't need at the moment in big ports, is not an option. As I said; a lot of "out of the box" thinking, when you play the North! :)

I've cut in, what I store in my trading port. I've reduced the amount of logs, herbs and barrows (no one so far wants to pay the higher prize for them anyway) to about 60% full store.

My only problem in this game, so far, is that I haven't seen any glass. No merchant brought it, no merchant will take an order! :( It looks like you need some glass to produce glass, and glass is needed for many things. Most important at this point a town hall, a country store and larger barns. I hope it's simply bad luck and not a bug.

To increase the chances to get some glass, I've built a second trading dock.

Third picture

Now there's a church (under construction on the last picture) and a graveyard. A couple of nomads has joined the community. Note, the well on an strategic place! ;)

Fourth picture

Overview

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
  • Country: is
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2017, 09:24:35 AM »
Yes, nice saying @kid1293  So let's cook..^^

Your research of the campfire output is right @Nilla. They roast a half deer at a time, it brings 20% improvement and doesn't need education. Parkas are made from hides 1:1 and 1 hide is enough to start crafting.

I did some more testing with camping gatherers and it is as you said. If there is a campfire, these lazy guys tend to sit there for roasting some meat. Actually I don't mind, but of course they have to fly through the forest for berries and stuff all the time. But what bothers me more is that all meat is tracked as output in their gatherer shelter. Other people from permanent workplaces do the same. I don't like this side effect and want a better solution.

The gatherer from forest outpost in your picture had a really good yield for harsh climate. Maybe luck or less laziness. There is no difference in these workplaces.

I will wait for more results from your village before I make a Steam version. Maybe we will need some tweaking of values.

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
  • Country: se
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 07:25:49 AM »
I've played a few more years. It seems like complaining here at WOB pays off. The first merchant who arrived after I started to play, didn't have glass but took an order and he was back the next year with a boatload of glass. So I bought 100 to start with. I've bough 100 bricks and 100 rooftiles earlier. So in no time; this settlement goes from a viking village to the 19th century.

Finally I have my "beloved" statistics. I had a lot of blueberries! The drying shack for meat seems efficient. I've also bought some salt and built a salting house down by the port. But salt is carried to the stores by the vendors, so a better location is close to a store.

I can't say, that I understand the merchants; what they bring and what they pay well for. Probably I don't need to. It's the opposite to CC, where there's dozens of different merchants with different names. Here, they are all called merchants but they bring/can bring a lot of different things. They also pay different for different things. They often carries smaller amount of precious metals or coins. I try to build a small stock of coins and metals. At the moment I have no real other strategy. After I've bought the essential "start-up" things, I'm self sufficient (except for salt and later sugar). I think, I will go on and farm a little bit longer, to see how it works. Then close the farms/most of the farms, to see what happends, if a settlement is dependent on food import.

I have some thoughts about further developments of this mod. Of cause, I haven't tried all new things yet, but I will write a little about it here anyway. It has come to my mind now. I find, that this mod has gone in two opposite directions. Historically in two opposite directions. I don't mean it's a bad thing! Just something to think about @Tom Sawyer, if you want to go on with this work.

You have developed the "viking part"; the more primitive life, with subsistence farming as base for life; the uneducated start, the farmers workplace and other small production buildings. The look of such a settlement is very nice and neat. It would have made a lot of fun to develop such a viking/early medieval village further. But a couple of things makes it hard: statistics and distribution of goods. I would have waited to build any of these red 19th century buildings, if there had been a townhall and a market in "viking style". Maybe I'm a bit odd, but I need my statistics. Mostly the inventory but also number of houses/families, some of the more important graphs and so on. The distribution of goods without markets is also difficult. I have a lot of small barns, but those close to production sites were full, others in more remote areas empty. I thought, that I would need some larger barns, but things have changed, after I've built my 2 "lanthadel". After a few vendors started their work, the small storage work well.

The other direction of development is the early industrial part. It's also very interesting. I will slowly start to go in that direction the following years and let you know my thoughts.

First picture

I have built a small industrial area. These buildings are so nice! The production hasn't started, yet. I don't think it will for some time. I just wanted to make sure, that I have enough building materials for these buildings. I will also produce a small store of clay and sand, so I can start to produce fast, if i need to.

And finally I have some statistics! The menu of the village hall is a bit larger than vanilla. I had to try and make some changes from my usual way but this is alright. Normally I have the professions menu open but it can be managed here as well.

Second picture

Town center.

I haven't really understood the changes educated/uneducated, yet. I've built a school to find out. If I understand it right: uneducated farmers and laborers work as well as educated. Educated craftsmen work better. Is it about 25%, like it was or are there any changes?

My inventory shows, that there's a lot of blueberries in the woods. It was 5k but I've sent no laborers out in the woods the past years and they will have to stay home a couple more. I wonder how 5 well year old blueberries taste?  :P

Third picture

This happens, if you forget to start the harvest manually.

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
  • Country: is
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 12:44:45 PM »
Good thoughts! I already had a Thingstead in mind. A simple meeting place for the old Vikings where town hall functions are available right from the start. In a reduced form or so. And a small rural market would be useful of course. The vanilla market also fits and got a texture overwrite in this version. But it is rather large. Also I'm sure there are some nice items here in downloads. EB Farmstand in even Viking style or something from Kid and DS. Will look at it to make sure it works with the flagging.

The inefficiency or waste of material by uneducated workers is mostly 25% yes. The difference is that many works are not affected by this anymore. These are hunting, gathering and mining. For farmers it depends on crops they grow. Simple crops don't make a difference and others reach a better yield with education. It can be checked on www.banishedventures.com/wiki/crops.

Offline irrelevant

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2748
  • Country: us
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 01:21:57 PM »
Now I know a little more how the hunting tool works, and I don't think I like it! If you look at the first picture, you can see why.
I just now saw this; @Nilla the new queen of the deer visperers! :)

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
  • Country: se
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2017, 06:50:02 AM »
Well, @irrelevant; I wouldn't exactly call it a whisper. It's more like screaming out loud.  :D

@Tom Sawyer; I thought a little about trying the DS wagon vendors. I've always liked them and I think they could work visually. But I've read about the trouble @brads3 had with his markets, and I wanted to test this mod first. If it works with other mods, comes later. But honestly, in such a rural area, where people produce more or less everything they need themselves, no kind of market or merchant would have played a part in the everyday distribution of goods, opposite to a town. I said, that the wagon vendor would fit visually, because I think, that travelling merchants did visit from time to time, selling salt and a few other things, people couldn't produce at home. If you want to make something historically correct, I would suggest a barn in the same style as the other, maybe a little bigger, where vendors could work. The name "vendor" would maybe not fit, but were used to it and I don't find it so important. Maybe the profession could be renamed to storekeeper or something. It would have been a more proper name for the function in Banished anyway, because to me a vendor sells something and no vendor sells anything in Banished, they just distribute goods.

A few more years have gone by in Sigurdo.

First picture

Do people look for gold on their own initiative? I didn't order any search for gold for a very long time. But one poor guy lost his way on the other side of the river. The bags give the clue, that he was searching (and found) gold. Unfortunately he starved to death before the bridge was done. I tried every trick to keep him alive; let him cut a tree, made everyone to builder and tried to make him build a barn so he had anywhere to put wild food. Somehow the gaming mechanism is annoying. Even if it's too early for blueberries, there's other food out in the woods. He starved, because he needed a barn to eat.  :'( ???

Second picture

Fish will not play a big part in this version of the game. You can only assign one fisher to each spot and this one fisher doesn't catch all too much. (last year was bad for some reason, it has been  a bit more other times I've looked, but still much less than a vanilla fisher with its 4 fisher). I will not say, it's too low compared to other professions, but what are your reasons?
,
Third picture

Food graph. It's no crises! I just had too much food (primary blueberries and meat/meatproducts) so I put some of it in the tradingports and reduced the production temporarily. Now we're back on track with a production slightly over the consumption.

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Country: us
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2017, 07:47:58 AM »
NILLA,i agree with you. i used to play without vendors thining it was more like buy and sell.over time i had to re-think them where they keep an inventory and help move goods.with all the new flags and a mod this big with so many changes,it is beter to play with it before adding to it.especially in your case since you haven't played with the new limits much.
       some of my storage issues are self-induced.i use a cross-over mod,the compatability 1.07,to bridge differences with old mods to the 1.07.it is actually needed to make some mods function,the NMT and CC for example.with so many mods upgraded so quickly,most players played short games.due to that some things may not have been tested enough.also,all item flags got added to markets and barns.this adds to everything being scattered all over the maps.
     EB did make us some nice small markets to help store and move more specific items.CC extended the cellars making 1 for each new flag.they did add some small barns and a set of production storage barns.even those are limited.as i try to figure the storage and markets out more i will try to relay info back to the modders.i think that will help some of it.

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9472
  • Country: ca
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2017, 10:13:36 AM »
question: i see in your pictures that the calendar is based on "real month names" .... what is the correspondance ? is winter=january ? and the new year start at march (early spring = march) ?
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 859
  • Country: is
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2017, 11:29:50 AM »
I have no clue how this guy could reach the other side of the river. They don't search for gold without order or building site. Funny thing but not for him. ;D

Such a managed barn is a good idea and storekeeper probably a better name, also for traders, or? They actually don't do anything else than carrying stuff with their barrows. Even auto purchasing works without them. 300 fish from a pier with rather small circle is not so bad in my opinion. Smoked it will be 400 and salted even 500.

@RedKetchup The year starts in March. You can copy this:

StringTable seasons
{
   Entry _strings
   [
      { String _name = "Month0";         String _text = "March"; }            
      { String _name = "Month1";         String _text = "April"; }            
      { String _name = "Month2";         String _text = "May"; }   
      { String _name = "Month3";         String _text = "June"; }            
      { String _name = "Month4";         String _text = "July"; }            
      { String _name = "Month5";         String _text = "August"; }   
      { String _name = "Month6";         String _text = "September"; }            
      { String _name = "Month7";         String _text = "October"; }            
      { String _name = "Month8";         String _text = "November"; }   
      { String _name = "Month9";         String _text = "December"; }            
      { String _name = "Month10";         String _text = "January"; }            
      { String _name = "Month11";         String _text = "February"; }                     
   ]
}               

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9472
  • Country: ca
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #25 on: December 14, 2017, 11:42:48 AM »
yeah i already integrated this to my new mod :)

too bad for the aussies ^^  ;D

edit: and yes thats exactly the same lines :)
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline Turis

  • Trader
  • ****
  • Posts: 498
  • Country: es
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #26 on: December 14, 2017, 11:47:33 AM »
Do we have this in your mod? because I've been using another mod. If I don't need it...

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2600
  • Country: us
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #27 on: December 14, 2017, 12:20:59 PM »
TOm,i don't mean to argue but what do you mean by "They actually don't do anything else than carrying stuff with their barrows...."??? do you mean the market vendors? i have spent the last few days trying to follow a different vendor each day.a tedious time consumming project.
     what i see so far, different vendors act differently.some do go idle and stand  still or harass the other workers.some seem to help workplaces nearby carry goods to barns or markets. so they act as a laborer but in a tight area. i have not seen any go waunder off to where more land was being cleared. there is a couple so far that are uniquely helpful.they will take material and deliver it to builders.i have also seen the market become overstocked and the vendor move goods out to another market.they do more than just deliver goods to their own market.
    i do want to monitor more of them and try figuring them out better.so far some do act different than others. there does seem to be a random reasxoning behind most of what they do. i haven't much answere as to why and when.it is interesting to see so many differnces from 1 market to the next.

Offline RedKetchup

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 9472
  • Country: ca
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2017, 01:12:23 PM »
maybe overlaps are bad, just like fishing ?
> > > Support Mods Creation developments with Paypal Donations < < <
Click here to PayPal Donate.

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 2433
  • Country: se
Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #29 on: December 15, 2017, 10:58:35 AM »
A few more years and a few more pictures.

First picture

We had a terrible summer. Look at the picture: snow in August, the temperature was never higher than 7 C! The turnips grew to 20%, the pears to 15%, the other fields, the blueberries, mushrooms and onions in the forest: 0! I don't mind that occasionally something like this happens. I even like it. We're in the North! Such things actually happened and many people starved. In this village no one will have to starve. The stores are well filled, there's a reserve of salted and smoked meat in the trading ports and if it should turn really bad, we can always let the berserk huntress out in the woods. ;)

But the game is a bit odd. Next picture is a very short time after the first.

Second picture

As soon as the month September came, the temperature rose to 12 C in no time. The crops even started to grow, not much and not for long but at least a little. I guess, that it's nothing to do about it. The temperature of each season is independent on the season before. Here a very cold summer, was followed by a very warm autumn.

There's another rather odd thing: I've built a boardwalk to my trading port. I wanted to give the traders a shorter, straight way to the port if they come from that direction. But they seem to be very coward. They don't dare to walk on the part where no land is beneath.

Third picture

I made an experiment; a small footbridge over the stream. I haven't seen anyone walk on it. I tried to make them. I just cleared the ground for the second cow pasture. The stockpile on the other side of the river is the closest. But I never saw anyone use it. So I really think, that the Bannis in this village are afraid of water.

You can see that no one needed to starve. I was a bit lucky, that a merchant who had a lot of turnips arrived. But even without it, there would have been no trouble; only a poorer diet. Last year was the opposite from the year before. A very warm summer. I think some crops would even had made 100%, if I hadn't started the harvest earlier. The autumn, however was very cold, with an early frost, so no field was completely harvested. But still good enough to fill the stores with turnips, onions, barely and rye. The forests were full with blueberries. Ive even bought some sugar and made jam. Is jam fruit?

The industrial buildings in the background still don't work. The brickmaker was used a short time to expand the school. I will wait until the educational rate gets higher. Then I will transform the village to the19th century, with the red houses and an attempt to make a small export industry.