Author Topic: Nilla-testing the North6  (Read 13257 times)

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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #30 on: December 15, 2017, 11:50:32 AM »
^^ 0 C in august .... an exceptional 12 C in september ....

it is so real in here in Quebec, Canada ^^
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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #31 on: December 15, 2017, 04:24:53 PM »
Yes, jam is preserving the fruit flag and its health effect.

It seems I have to make a second boardwalk object for crossing waters. It works only above road tiles or above water. Not very elegant but it will work then.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2017, 07:07:34 AM »
I played a few more years yesterday. I'll show one picture.

I play disasters on. This can happen. Not so funny, that my nice industrial buildings caught fire. You may say; no wonder bricks and glass need fire and it might be troublesome to control. But no, the fire actually started at the house next to the brickmaker and spread to the other buildings. On the other hand, it was funny to watch all people; without hesitation they all run into the burning house with their small pots of water.  :P

You can see my store. There's a lot of meat and other proteins. I try to sell as much as I can, but too few merchants want to pay the higher prize. And since I don't need to buy much, there's no reason to sell to a low prize. I will not say much about productivity and profit of different products. Generally I can say; it's a profit to process food. Every step make sense but I haven't found anything, that makes a very high profit. It's nice, I like that. One thing I might criticize a bit; I find the meat salter needs very little salt. I've bought a little now and then, but it last very long. If you make jam; you need a lot more sugar.

I've tested a few other different possibilities of the farmers workplace. I made some ale from barely. I have no inn or a place, where the people can consume alcohol. I suspect, that ale count as "grain" in this version. Your German origin shows @Tom Sawyer; beer as "Grundnahrungsmittel". ;)


Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #33 on: December 16, 2017, 09:09:15 AM »
do you have any way to process sugar up there? in CC,you can boil maple sap down twice to get sugar.KID uses sugar beets to make sugar as well.
i agree with you if you can process it yourself. if you can not ,then it might be debated. i do like the idea of giving the bannies something to drink with food value.maybe then they won't drink all my water.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #34 on: December 16, 2017, 09:14:11 AM »
Sugar, like salt is import only. But I find it good that way. Itīs reality. In fact those are the only goods I buy at the moment.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #35 on: December 16, 2017, 12:15:08 PM »
Good you made some Ale. Your brave people deserve it after this firefighting. They don't need a tavern to consume this stuff but it's even better to sit there with a roast beef and some ale.^^ The consumption of salt can be higher. I will adjust it to be more a need in trading docks. The boardwalk I have extended by an item for crossing water. Then you can build such a waterfront used by people.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2017, 08:35:38 AM »
The consumption of salt can be higher.
.. or maybe salt ought to be more expensive, or both.

I've been playing and thinking a little more. I've come to the conclusion, that I should start a new game. Why? It's quite obvious, that all these small, partly new production buildings, more or less belonging to a farm, need another kind of testing. In this game the growth is too fast. Of cause also a larger population, can/should use them, but the great thing, would be to run them in a small settlement with a lot of micromanagement. I can guess, that you have developed something, that make even impatient players like me enjoying "real time aging". Normally, I find it too boring at the beginning. But I am pretty sure, that with all these possibilities, there will be things enough to do, even in a tiny settlement.

So I've downloaded the latest upgrade and will start a new game with "Norsemen".

But before we leave Sigurdo, a couple of thoughts/questions/suggestions.

Farming It's more profitable to farm in a harsh climate, than it was before. Most years give a decent harvest. But occasionally, as I've told you, the harvest might be more or less =0. This makes it interesting and harder to play "harsh". It's important that farming is possible, because with the small trading ports and these merchants, I think it would be very hard to support the population with enough food without farming. In the old version it was not only possible but also easier to buy a lot of food than farm. I can't imagine, that it's like that now.

It also look like, it's more important to have a balanced diet, than vanilla and I think, even more than it was in earlier versions. I have noticed, that the few people who live far away from the markets are really sick (1 hart), even with enough herbs and herbalists. I don't know, how much less productive these people are, but of cause it's less than those with 5 stars. Are there any other disadvantages with unhealthy people?

Pumpkins? Why on earth can they grow pumpkins and not potatoes? As far as I know, they are both American plants, that came to Europe relatively late. Even if the vikings travelled to America, I don't think they brought any pumpkin seeds.

Herbs as crop! I don't mind, that herbs could be grown on fields, but I find that the productivity/price isn't right. You harvest about the same amount of herbs on a field as other crops. Maybe a little less than turnips and barely but more than rye. But the prize, if you sell it, is about double; 6 or 8 depending on the merchant. So you can theoretically grow herbs, sell it and get around the double amount of vegetables/grain trading it away. It's not bad, that herbs have a higher prize, than normal crops. I would reduce the growth.

The farmers workplace. You can grind rye. That's nice. But what about wheat (and maybe other grains you can buy)? As far as I can understand, wheat can't be eaten without processing. So you can buy wheat right from the start, but you have no possibility to eat it, before you can afford to build a proper mill. I don't like that. I'm not sure, what I think about needing 4 wool for one wool coat. Unless you have a big herd of sheep, you will not be able to make many wool coats. But on the other hand, there's a lot of work, several steps, needed to make clothes from wool. If you see it that way, it's OK.

Processing meat. If my notes are right, it's more profitable to salt meat than roast or dry. That's good. But as far as I see, there's no difference between roasting and drying. Maybe drying ought to be a little more profitable than roasting.

Fishing I would like fish to be an important part of the economy. It was historically; a lot of fish eaten, dried and salted fish sold. You are right @Tom Sawyer, that the output for one fisher isn't bad, but I would like, that it could be possible to use 2 fisher on each pier. It would also give the pier an advantage over the small instant fisher. You can't see how much fish you get now, but if the output isn't changes from earlier versions, a good located trout fisher could give 300 fish as well. (if I remember right).

Merchants I think I like these merchants, with their mixed goods and different prices for the small ports. The way the game has developed, it looks like, trade has lost a part of its importance. Of cause you need to buy some initial "stuff";seeds, animals, bricks, rooftiles, glass. Merchants who carry these things, don't come very often. It may be alright, because later you will never need these things, but I find, that it should be possible to order these things by more merchants. Now I guess, that the game doesn't allow this "perfect world". So what is better; a lot of "useless stuff" later or wait for the right things longer?

Later in the game I bought mainly salt and sugar; typical import goods. It's good to be able to sell some surplus and collect a few coins/gold/silver, so you can buy some "emergency goods"; food after a cold summer or to get a balanced diet before you have all seeds, ore/iron/tools if there's not enough ore on the ground close to your settlement, before you can afford to run a mine..... And these things work the way it is.

But if you want to start some industrial production to support the settlement with food, I'm pretty sure, that these docks are too small. And if the same merchants arrive to a large port, I think there's too few of them, who pay a higher price for products like tools, clothing, alcohol, and logs (profitable goods in earlier versions). I donīt know if they are the same, because I didnīt build any large ports. But it would maybe be a possibility to allow us to build larger industrial settlements as well , if other merchants, similar to the last version of the North arrived to the larger ports.

SUMMARY: I like most of the changes. The attempt to direct the gameplay is very interesting. (if you understand what I mean) ;)

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2017, 09:58:16 AM »
do you still have salmon or did that get phased out? i agree with you, i would prefer to have potatoes and not pumpkins.pumkins do have a longer growing season. it is surprising to see what you actually can grow so far north.i was looking at TOM's climate temps yesterday. the high he has you set at is our real life low temp in summer.you are more like mid to northern canada.am i right that your maps only have 3 climate choice settings?

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2017, 01:12:14 PM »
I don't mean I wanted potatoes, they are as strange as pumpkins in a viking/medieval European society. And yes, there are 3 climate zones in the North. But salmon and trout are both fish in this version.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2017, 05:32:43 PM »
Nice ideas and hints! I have already include them as far as I agree, so you can play with it if you like. Just download. That process is a bit unconventional but the mod made a good progress last week and is more matured now. Great thanks to you and all people who wrote about bugs! :)

I made the following changes:

- Farmers can grind wheat now
- Salting meat and fish needs more salt
- Herbs from fields bring lower yield (wild herbs are not affected)
- Pumpkin is removed from this scenario. Did not know that it's a plant from the New World as well.
- Slightly decreased amount of blueberry bushes in the forest
- Boardwalk will be used above water (needed a second item)
- Merchants are adjusted to let them pay higher prices more often.

To your questions:

Unhealthy people can be hit by diseases with a higher chance. That's a vanilla function.

Roasting and smoking meat have different efficiency. Roasting 20 and smoking 33%. Actually I don't really see a reason to have both because both need firewood and are the self sufficient version of preserving meat while salting is the advanced method. But why not using the smoking shed for meat as well. It is mentioned this way and Brad wants it.^^

Fish I have simplified again because I actually needed it to balance different fishery objects but this is solved now and cleaning up the inventory is always good. The fishing pier has a small advantage to the simple fishing spot by reaching one tile further into waters. So the fishing circle has a bit more water and this has a an effect. Not really much but the effort to build a pier is also very small.

With merchants I like to control a bit the availability of bricks and glass and when people write it came after about 10 years then it sounds rather well balanced to me, at least not too long. The trading post attracts more merchant ships and they work with money as in the old version. So this is the rather modern trading while the old docks simulate a Viking trade scenario.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2017, 01:37:51 AM »
Sounds reasonable. Good that I didn't start any new game. I`m looking forward to test it. I'll let you know my thoughts.

Offline Hawk

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2017, 03:37:05 AM »
This is right on time. I was going to start a new game anyway.  ;D
Hawk

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #42 on: December 19, 2017, 03:58:46 AM »
I started a new game yesterday with the latest version. I wanted this one to be extreme, but I wasn't sure in which way; hard (survivors) or slow (Anders och Ella). But I decided slow. I think there are less changes in playing the survival start than by Anders and Ella, compared to previous versions.

I was also thinking a little about making this a story; inspired by @Abandoned, but I don't think I have such a talent. So you have to think that story out yourself. Why is these young couple out in the wildness way north all alone? What thoughts and feelings affect their choices? Instead I will just show you some pictures and tell a little about my thoughts and feelings about them.

First picture

The freezing symbol came just before the house was finished, so everything turned out well. I've cut in the settings. I forgot the map, but it will be shown on the last pictures. It's a nice spot of land close to the big lake with a small island, protecting the house from the cold Northwest wind.

Second picture

If you want to eat a venison (100 food), you'll need a storage. The smallest storage only holds 800 goods, and I guess will soon be full, so I took the risk of building the slightly bigger. The turnips they had in their pouch, lasted long enough, so now they will have storage space enough for quite some time.

The first summer was very cold; very little turnips, very little blueberries, but luckily, there's always deer around the house. The diet was bad this first year, but it was easy to survive. There was time enough to hunt, roast the meat and make some coat. I would find it interesting to increase the punishment for a bad diet or the other way around; to give an advantage, for a balanced diet with many different kind of food. Is it possible to make anything here?

Third picture

The following summers were warmer and the barn full of turnips and blueberries. Toolmaking really need some effort with only two people, also busy with other things. First collect enough firewood to heat the house and run the charcoaler. I have decided to spare as much trees as possible, and only collect firewood as long as I can. Then dig for clay. Since I didn't want to disturb the development of the farmstead, I choose to build it a bit away, close to a mountain. Then collect bog iron, build a small smelter, make iron bloom, build a workplace and make iron. That's where I was last spring, as the work to make tools was interrupted, to concentrate on food collecting. When the snow comes, more charcoal has to be made, unfortunately I wasn't fast enough to prevent the bloomery to store 12 charcoal, I wanted to use for tools. But it's no crisis. There's still tools enough. But I think it's wise, to start to prepare for toolmaking early.

You can see due to poor diet, the health is getting down. It looks like it doesn't matter, if they have only meat or meat, fruit and vegetables, like they had after the second summer; without grain, the health gets down. Maybe it would have happened faster, if they had continued with meat only. In any case, it doesn't seem to have any real impact on anything.

Fourth picture

Big impact or not, I want healthy settlers. To improve the health we need grain. As next a trading port was built. The first merchant brought rye, sheep and cattle. Here it looks like I only will buy the sheep and some rye but I reconsidered and spent both goldnuggets, to buy the cows as well. I find, that sheep and cows are too cheap. The introduction of gold nuggets as a possible payment, makes it too easy to buy all these animals this early in the game. Seeds are also cheap, but to me it's OK that way. It must be difficult to transport living animals on these boats, a few seeds however, no trouble at all.

Fifth picture

Here's the whole settlement, except the trading dock just outside the picture south. There are some new buildings; pastures for the animals, a workplace to grind flour and make wool clothes and a herbalist out in the woods. It's just the workplace without the cabin. It looks a bit weird, if you look close; without the cabin underneath, but I think it's an exception; that you want only the herbalist and if you look at it in overview like this, it doesn't look strange at all. Everything could have been built more close to eachother for shorter ways and higher efficiency, but it seem to work anyway. So I can afford to think a bit ahead and place the buildings where they fit a slightly larger settlement.

You can see the claypit in the north and by the lake a weird piece of boardwalk. There was a piece of gold on that slope, that they couldn't reach. So I had to make this tiny building investment, to get that nugget.

SUMMARY: So far it works fine. I like it. It's not boring at all; things to do all the time. I run mostly 2X speed; only very short 5X if they are busy with things that takes a bit longer. The only negative comment; it might be a bit too easy to develop everything under these conditions, but there's always "ironman" if you want real trouble, so no real complain! ;)

Offline Hawk

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #43 on: December 19, 2017, 05:53:43 AM »
What are your map seed settings?
Hawk

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Offline Abandoned

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Re: Nilla-testing the North6
« Reply #44 on: December 19, 2017, 06:03:55 AM »
 :) Hi Nilla, I see I have a lot of catching up to do.  That is a really nice looking lake on that map. The new North looks great.