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Work In Progress - Maps

Started by kid1293, December 07, 2018, 07:14:58 AM

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kid1293

Let's talk about MAPS!

This is a little warm-up for a map mod.
I think everyone have their own favorite terrain to start with.
What if it were more flexible? Let's talk about maps!

I do not have any Tiny or Huge maps. Tiny are pointless, small are just as good.
Huge can be fun but it is very hard to make maps with consistent quality. There seems
to be many problems associated with huge maps. Tearing, dark water and long load times.

Other modders are very welcome to add to this.
Players are welcome to discuss new maps.

Here is a zip-file with overrideMap.pkm plus source files.

Included in mod this far - 2018 Dec 11th:
Plains - mostly flat
PlainsRivers - plains with more rivers
OneRiver - plains with no streams, no lakes
Lakes - many small lakes
Swamps - mostly water
ValleysRivers - valleys with more rivers
MountainsLake - mountains with big lake
MountainsRivers - mountains with more rivers
MountainsMeadows - mountains with some flat areas

:) Enjoy

theonlywanderer

#1
I've never had a use for Huge maps.   Hard enough to fill the medium sized ones before the game craps out.

I am a huge fan of valley style maps.  I enjoy having to deal with the mountains.    Sort of forced to work out the puzzle in different ways every time to get around or through the mountains.   Also like to have a couple medium sized lakes, not massive lakes.   The river is obviously mandatory.

Those are my typical preferences.

brads3

i would get kicked out for saying stuff about maps and starts.you all would send me to a corner.each modder has done something different to these and that is good for giving more players options.

    however in very few cases can we take an idea or change from 1 to another map. where is the coding guy we had last week? we would need him to even think about doing this the right way. i think the right way would work but it would not be easy to do.my thinking is the start settings should be split so we can load changes and the game woud add options to the maps. so starts should add gathering,trees,animas,map style plus terrain texture,plus rocks,etc.each piece should be split whoch would give a ton of more options.each player coud make their own map or start by combining various mods or options. so far this is lmited to the modders and players both.we can add or alter some aspects of the starts.others when we try to add,it becomes a give and take. we gain this but the game drops that. i can change the bison or deer texture but if i change the grass texture i lose the wild animals.i can add 20 items to the gathering but lose 1.

      modders have improved it and gave us more options. i am grateful for the advanced options we do have.each year there are huge gains.

       1 thing i think many players would like is a coastal map. even if we can't use or build on the map edge, but to have 1 side flat and water instead of the edge mountains. 

kid1293

I agree @brads3 but we must start somewhere to make things unified.
I opened up to talk about maps. This can lead to terrains/textures and later
we maybe get some sort of system to select what is spawned from trees.
And trees them selves, of course. I am not sure I can handle all this but,
as I said, other modders are welcome.

Here is a map-example. I tried to make Mountain Meadows. Not only rock
and rock again. We need space to develop. With a little tweaking this can
be interesting. :)

theonlywanderer

That last on there looks nice and crazy challenging!

brads3

can anything be done to remove the edge mountains and leave it dead open space or water? how much have you experimented with mixing meadows with forests? did you try a raised walkable level for a plateau? even just 1 story high might be interresting.

brads3

do these maps change with the code or are they locked exactly as your pictures?

RedKetchup

i personally open to add some news kind of maps for RKEC before it is set for 1.2....

i am really strugling to try to get a very good "lakes" setup.
i am very bad at this part of the map generator.
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elemental

So what sizes are these available in? You say you don't use tiny or huge, does that mean you aren't offering them as an option?

Maldrick

Just to add my 2 coppers...

Sizes...I didn't start playing till the game had been out for a couple of years so I forced myself to stick with vanilla for most of a year before moving on to playing with mods for reasons that aren't really relevant to this topic, but I mention it because I kind of shifted tastes in maps when I started with mods.

During vanilla it was almost always valleys and I tended to go large until I got into my small maps obsession for a few months.  Would occasionally play medium because they tend to generate best of the three, but it was almost always large or a specific choice to go small.

With mods I'm all over the place.  If using lots of mods and planning to go big I'll do with Larger.  There was a Huge map that the older terrain mod I tend to use (More Terrain, if memory serves) that had all kinds of problems kid mentioned, but the one up from large is generally fine.  Since Discrepancy released his, I'll occasionally play a Tiny for specific reasons, and once in a while a medium, but generally a Large or the next one up...different mods have different names for it.  I run a pretty beefy PC so performance isn't really a concern usually and I like to be able to spread out.  If the issues could be fixed, I would play huge ones sometimes.

Modded, I almost always go with plains.  Unless there's a specific look or challenge in mind, I don't really see much point in having a lot of hills or overbearing water.  When looking at a map, it's generally the placement of lakes (if they are on the river or not), how many lakes there are (depending on what I'm planning to do), how many streams there are and how much parallel generation there is with them and other things, and if the river isn't exceedingly diagonal.  I don't mind a lot of lakes if they are on the river and I love them in clusters as opposed to the big single lake maps.  That's in general. I do use other things if there's something specific I plan to be doing.

Not sure of that's the kind if feedback you were looking for or not, kid.
"We are the architects of our actions and we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic."
― Ezio Auditore da Firenze

theonlywanderer

I don't want to hijack this thread, but just curious.......

What is your assessment, Maldrick, on what provides the best performance for this game...  memory, cpu, gpu...    I have a decent PC also and it starts to crap out around 1,000 or so.   I am a PC tech, so no stranger to PC's, but never been much of a gamer so I lack that connection to what helps performance on a game like this.

Current Setup....
Main drive is SSD
64bit windows 7 pro
32gb ram
Core I7-3930K @3.2ghz

Game is on SSD drive and I use the 64bit version of the game.

RedKetchup

Quote from: theonlywanderer on December 07, 2018, 02:21:47 PM
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just curious.......

I have a decent PC also and it starts to crap out around 1,000 or so. 

thats cause from the pathing engine the game use, and the thing also, the game is running almost on 1 cpu core. today machines have 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 cores... and we dont use it. about the 1,000 pop lags, no much to do there, the game need a more optimized code to rule the pathing calculations.
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kid1293

Making a plateau is beyond the mapmaker. Removing edge is also impossible.

Maps are seeded just like vanilla. You have millions of them.

I have not included any 'tiny/mini/micro' or 'extra large/huge/enormous' maps
for reason stated above.

@Maldrick - I hear you :) You are just one voice among many on how you choose map.
I try to come with ideas myself and as such you have to be patient, maybe I can solve
problems and add other sizes, other basic templates... for you to test.

@RedKetchup - You actually came with a suggestion. It sounds like you want a regular
valley map with a few more lakes, a little larger lakes? Test it. It is easy to get into and
it can be a good way to relax from other modding :)

RedKetchup

Quote from: kid1293 on December 07, 2018, 02:37:46 PM

@RedKetchup - You actually came with a suggestion. It sounds like you want a regular
valley map with a few more lakes, a little larger lakes? Test it. It is easy to get into and
it can be a good way to relax from other modding :)
yeah i ll check that next of what i am doing.

trying to play with my 4 spawns of trees/grass/flowers to see i can get better layout of the RNG and tests take long. i can do like 4 tests of changing number + compile + create a map + look around the result : PER HOUR.
there is also the fact, i compile RKEC 1.2 FULL which takes alot of time.
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kid1293

Quote from: RedKetchup on December 07, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
there is also the fact, i compile RKEC 1.2 FULL which takes alot of time.

;D ;D You're crazy! Make a small separate mod.