News:

Welcome to World of Banished!

Main Menu

Nilla-Tobinsvilitz and Windthorp, more mod testing

Started by Nilla, July 29, 2016, 05:33:28 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Tom Sawyer

For me, the values of RealTimeAging look good. With educated people it should not be a big difference, but it avoids the crazy families with uneducated kids who are going to work with 6 and marry their own grandmother with 7.^^ And it does not have any cheats like -10% required food per year.

I have the feeling that harsh / hard or impossible is more pleasant with realistic aging (whether 1:1 or the other). I don't have to keep up with the rapid aging... Only an Adam and Eve start is extremely slow at the beginning. Thats right but very special.

Ok, no changes of the tornadoes. And it would be no problem to make more fire or more diseases. ;D

Nilla

Maybe I'll try it with the upgrade.

I don't need more small fires. As I said; to me it's no disaster, only a minor disturbance. If you don't forget the wells far away from the river, there's mostly one or maybe two houses destroyed, even in dense settlements. If you have really bad luck, it might spread to a market or a barn and some goods will be gone. That's about the worse that will happen. Or maybe if a school catches fire: I always thought that the children than goes to another school, as long as there are enough of them. In my present game they didn't.

Tom Sawyer

I did not mean more small fires. I thought of an infernal conflagration.^^ There are some funny variables. Spread chance for example.

Nilla

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 08, 2016, 10:19:30 AM
I did not mean more small fires. I thought of an infernal conflagration.^^ There are some funny variables. Spread chance for example.

I wouldn't mind if you played around with these figures. I promise to be a test pilot, disasters on! But don't forget to warn people, if you publish something like that. Not everyone is is such a masochist as I am! ;)

Maybe disastrous fires could replace the unusual tornado in the Nordic mod. It would be realistic. I know of no old Swedish town, that had no major fires in the past, that destroyed more or less the whole town. In my nearest town Mariestad  (founded late 1500) there were at least 2 of them.

My second picture shows the worse case now: a fire in a new area far away from water, no well built yet; 1 marketplace and 3 houses.  :-\

The first picture shows an idea I had for the support of the growing population: Mining. But there's a bug (I think you have fixed it @Tom Sawyer ) that prevents you from put iron into the trading ports. I thought I could than sell steel, but unfortunately, it's the same; the traders don't carry anything like that into the ports. There's not enough logs to increase the tool production as much as needed. So that's it! I see no possibility for this settlement to survive.

The third picture with the chickenmarch in the beautiful winter light, shows another small problem. Look at the inventory; A lot of protein (I sell salmon, eggs, mutton and venison), a lot of grain, only a little fruit and vegetables. I order wheat, cabbage, apples and trout. The merchants bring a lot of wheat, some cabbage, a few apples and very little trout. It's good, that there's not much trout. That's not the point. In this part of the game, I have to buy all food that's brought, but there's not enough fruit and vegetables. During one period of the game I only ordered apples and cabbage by some merchants, but it didn't change much. I had the impression, that the total amount of food he brought, was less.

In earlier parts of the game, as I didn't have to buy all food, there were normally wheat left on the boat, after the shopping was done. Short; too much wheat, too little fruit and vegetables. Now the question @Tom Sawyer ; Is this intentional? A way to force people to farm in the harsh climate?  In that case, it's not a very good way. If I want no farming, I would build some more trading ports and that I know; it's not your intention. My suggestion is to decrease the amount of wheat and increase the amount of vegetables and fruit on the boats.

Tom Sawyer

#19
Quote from: Nilla on August 09, 2016, 03:05:31 AM
Maybe disastrous fires could replace the unusual tornado in the Nordic mod. It would be realistic.
This idea I really like. I will make some tests with fire spreading and so on.

Your iron settlement is a exciting venture. I would like to see it. You can use this small bug fix above the North to store iron, steel and coal in the trading post. Unfortunately you need to build a new trading post in your current game.

Oddly that you don't have enough logs to produce tools. There were several statements from you that timber production is too weak...

The stack count of wheat is higher than apples or cabbage because there are only 2 kinds of grain and more of veges and fruits. My intention was to ensure that enough grain arrives. And if you simply purchase more kinds of fruits and vegetables? I will take a look on the stack counts. It should be about the same of all types.

Nilla

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 09, 2016, 12:50:38 PM
Oddly that you don't have enough logs to produce tools. There were several statements from you that timber production is too weak...

It's not quite that simple. I would not say weak. The limiting factor is space. This is a medium map and I use as much space I find reasonable for forests. My 33 foresters produced 2900 logs last year. Not bad, BUT in this cold climate I used 8500 firewood and almost 700 tools. What's left; I need to build.  There's nothing left to produce tools for export. I can't order and buy logs. I suppose they would cost 10 and that would kill most of the profit. Besides, boats that carries logs doesn't arrive often. One possibility would be to buy firewood, but they are only offered by the same boats that offers food. And I need all the food I can get. More trading ports could possibly be an option. I will try it.

But I don't think this could save the settlement now, it's too late in the game. But at least, I can make some more testing.

Tom Sawyer

2900 logs from 33 foresters are good. 73% of it to heat the homes is not good. Firewood is really not the main task of forestry. My first idea is to increase the firewood production to 8 from a log instead of 4. It would mean about 33% of the logs in your current game for heating. Sounds more realistic for me and it should offer more possibilities to use logs for tool production and for trading. Collecting firewood would also benefit from it and I think it can get a buff. What do you think?

Nilla

I think, that might be a good idea, if you want to have logs/tools as an export product. My gatherers also collect some firewood, but I don´t send the labourers to clear the forest from firewood as I did at the beginning. Maybe I should, it might free some logs for other things.

Nilla

I've been thinking a little more about making 8 firewood from each log. I like the idea, but of cause, the trade value of firewood must be changed to 1. And don't forget to look at the charcoalburner, that uses firewood. I find it good balanced now.  With no changes here and firewood only worth 1, it might be a too good business, to buy firewood and make coal. But you are good at balancing @Tom Sawyer, so I'm sure you make it right.

I loaded the tradefix, went back a few years and went on with my game yesterday. First I built 3 new trading ports, than I replaced my 2 old. The food graph shows how dependent this settlement is on food import. It takes some years to get enough cheap food and the stores got down quite dramatically. Luckily the stores were big, so there was no real problem.

I increase the mining, the steel- and the iron tool production all the time. I make no steel tools anymore. I don't know, if it's the right thing to do. Mining demands a lot of tools. I was a bit behind for some time, but I have increased the production, so there will be no tool crisis. I'm not sure, if only steel tools would be better. They will last longer, but on the other hand, there would be less steel to export. Can anyone say how much longer steeltools last?

I think I will have to rebuild the marketplaces, too. I am a bit puzzled. I have a few barns in the mining areas. My thought was, that iron and coal will end up here, convenient for the blacksmiths to get. The stores of iron and coal increases, but always, as I look into these barns, there might be 5 coal and 12 iron, sometimes nothing. So I wondered; where is it? The answer: all over the place. There's some coal and iron in almost every barn. Iron is no big surprise. If iron is cleared from the ground, it lands in some barn and if there's no blacksmith close or nothing built, that needs iron, it will stay there forever. But coal? No mine or carcoal burner ever in the area. Why is it carried around the place? Makes no sense to me.

Maybe I will not bother about the marketplaces. I see no long future of this settlement anyway. It looks good now, but it grows too fast. I have built too many houses, too fast in the past. This 1:1 mod with the short time between the children, in combination with the red houses for a family of 6, makes it very hard to control the population growth. I also knew, that after the first few batches, it was a big mistake to take nomads. It was only a small experiment. Maybe it would have been more interesting, to go for a long sustainable game. But here we are, I will play until it crashes. 2000 inhabitants should be possible. That's always something.

Tom Sawyer

Really nice to see your settlement. The dense housing areas and so many smithies and mines. I would say it's a prosperous northern industrial town. :)

Yes, we reduce firewood to 1. And maybe the coal will be a bit cheaper.

I have the impression that tool production including mining eats itself. Due to the high wear of tools. Can you say how many tools you produce and how many you consume in a year?

The use value of tools = 100, steel tools = 200.

I have no idea why the materials are stored so scattered. Sometimes the workers carry several things, do another job and store it later in another location. And the markets also store iron and coal in locations where it is not needed... Thats why I want the industrial warehouse.

Nilla

I wanted to go on with the game but it crashes, immediately after I start. The same thing with the normal savegame and the autosave before. I guess it depends on that trade fix. It's never gut to load a new mod to an existing game. If I load a savegame before I used it, there's no crash.

If I remember right, I produced=used about 1000 tools each year.

One thing I forgot to say; My problems with too much wheat was solved as I started to order different kind of vegetables and fruit. Stupid that I didn't thought of it myself. In a vanilla game, I always order only one of each food type, all in all there's about the same of everything. I do it because it's easier to see, how much of each food type you have, if you don't have to look at the whole menu and count. But it's not so much trouble to add beans, cabbage and potatoes. I started school before the calculators, so I have learned to count. ;)

Tom Sawyer

Oh I'm sorry! It was not good to mess around with the marketplace.

You needed 1k tools for 800 workers. Mostly iron tools as you said. And 18% of your workers were in the tool production but they did not made all materials to tools. And a limit was the wood production. Difficult to say something to it. I think to go on steel tools would be better but obviously it's hard to make enough tools for export. Tailoring seems to be much stronger. You need only 5 tailor but 25 toolmaker. A coat is made for 4 years, a tool for about 1 year. No wunder. And i think wool is easier to produce than mining/charcoal burning/forestry. It could need some changes. On the quick I have no right idea. Perhaps because its too late in the evening. Or because I had a calculator in school.^^

Nilla

Clothes is no really good export good either in a large settlement. The production of textiles (mainly wool) also need space. I produced a small surplus of clothes and exported some of the Nordic woolcoats, but they need awfully much wool. In order to save wool, I produce woolcoats for my population. It's also difficult to produce reindeercoats. The hunters are distributed all over the place, so are the furs. In the middle of the game, I used my one trading port to collect them together, let them out and set one tailor close to the port to produce raindeer coats. That worked for some time, but later I found it too tedious and finally I started to export furs instead. Here would of cause also your specialized markets help.

To my many blacksmiths; most of them produce steel for export. Because of the strange distribution of iron and coal, the productivity is low. Even if tools are worn out fast, I think you could get economy in toolmaking, if you solve the distribution with your markets. Mining need little space.

I want to test this. That other game didn't work, so I started a new game. Since you condemned be to play on a small mountain map @Tom Sawyer , I used one of those. ;) It's the first I opened. Not much space there. There are better maps, but this one will do.

Instead of the 1:1 mod, I will test the RealTimeAging from @torgonius. I haven't played much, but it's terrible at the beginning. S L O W ! It takes ages to get children. The girl at the picture moved out at 16, got a mate ½ year later and have still no children with 20. If the children were born too fast in the 1:1 mod, I think it's too slow here, at least the time until the first child is born. But on the other hand; have you endured the slow start, the possibility to get a sustainable settlement is better with this mod. I know, it's not possible to have both, so I will not give in; do my miserable 10X speed game some more years and we will see.



Tom Sawyer

Sounds very good for me. Difficult to make reindeer coats, difficult to make nordic coats. warm clothing should be difficult. That you even made simple wool coats to provide your people with clothing, is a good sign.. So there are different ways and all have its place in the game. I think, at the moment no changes to tailoring.

Btw, one sheep gives the wool for one nordic coat per year. So you can count the sheeps on your map and you know how many coats you can make in a year. It also could help against sleep problems.^^

This girl could be a special case. There is a wide tolerance for the time to get a child after married.

I think the only way to push the population at the beginning of a realtime aging game is immigration. I would like to have a very simple building to get more immigrants in the early game with only 2 citizens. So Anders and Ella would have the possibility to get some special friends to make more babies. And to avoid strange couples in the next generation. In vanilla you need minimum 8. Kid made this nice small immigration office. This is a good idea but probably not for 2. Another thing is this statue. Thats not my taste. I wonder how it was in earlier times. Often a small village church was the foundation for a settlement. But the game requires a unique. What else could it be?

kid1293

I showed it to Nilla so I can show it to you.
Nomads can be placed on almost anything.
It must have a footprint so it can be selected, that's all.
I don't know about including them in a church, but it could
be worth a try.

Here is the simplest solution, more of joke right now but
you can elaborate on this.