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Nilla-testing the North6

Started by Nilla, December 10, 2017, 04:44:06 AM

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Turis


Discrepancy

Quote from: Nilla on February 01, 2018, 05:08:54 AM
I have added the Townhouses from @Discrepancy. They are really nice and the production buildings all work well in the North. BUT........ They are for families of 5-7. I can certainly not need houses for larger families than 5 at this moment. I have built a few large houses over the small ground floor workshops and stores, but I will have to stick to the smaller.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on February 01, 2018, 10:36:20 AM
I also find the upper story of the townhouses a bit too big or too high. One story or window-row lower would be nice and then with smaller families inside.
Quote from: Nilla on February 02, 2018, 03:54:54 AM
I don't find the townhouses big compared to a Banni. I think the size is quite realistic but sure, too big for one family. In life there would have been a number of families living in such a house.

I had thought about making those large Bryggen Store Townhouses act as 1-3 family 'Boardinghouses' in the next update.
I have had a request to make some ground floor houses instead of just the stores/production buildings.
I have also had a play at making some other smaller Store townhouses.
The next update though will require them to use Lumber in construction.

Nilla

Nice to hear, that you have plans to develop this mod further, @Discrepancy.

I'm not so fond of the idea to make the large "over the shop house" to a boarding house. OK, it's a logical choice, if you concider the size and the reality, but unfortunately boarding houses don't work as normal apartments. If I'm using the Bryggen houses, I want to build a number of small shops with houses on top, but in my way of playing, I don't need more than one boarding house. A better option, would be a modular system (like NMT townhouses). If you don't want to go that way, I would leave them the way they are. In a "vanilla time" game it doesn't matter much. In a "real time" game you have to handle potential too large families. So far I've settled families, where the parents are in their 40s in these large houses. It's a little micromanagement but totally manageable. An alternative with smaller over the shop houses would be great.

Of cause, you should use the new possibilities for more than three building materials for these "advanced" houses. Lumber is OK, but also glass and/or brick (maybe instead of iron).

First picture

I have noticed a very strange thing, that I've never seen before.

I didn't know, that Bannis could skip school. I happened to find a 13 year old, who moved alone into a newly built house. I was a bit pussled, because I've never seen someone with 13 leaving school. In fact he hadn't. He was uneducated. I always had enough schools. I haven't taken any nomads for a long time. I looked around a bit in the houses and I found another uneducated. Of cause it's a blacksmith, a profession where it really hurt.  ::)

Have anyone else seen this?

I have schools on 4 locations, three of them with 2 classrooms. The single school, red marked on the map, has been full sometimes. But there's another school, not that far away, blue marked, that never was full. I haven't seen, that students are afraid of visiting schools far away before.

There can't be many of these "school skippers". The educational rate is still 100% but there are some. Explanations, please......

Second picture

As you see, it's not hard to support 1000 people on harsh without farming. I have chosen not to spam the river with more trading ports than necessary. At the moment I have 5 (and one small dock). To get a balanced diet all the time, more would be needed. I have a loooooot of meat, especially salted meat but you can see, at the moment I miss grain.

Third picture

I think, I understand how hard it is to balance the trade; prices and goods merchants bring. I've said it before. I like it, the way it is. It's an interesting combination of barter trade and more profitable trade with coins. But I have one big wish; larger trading ports. Different merchants pay different for the goods. It's a good strategy, to sell various of goods. It's much too easy to overfill the port. A merchant can bring 10 000 - 20 000 food. I often want to/need to buy all. I always have enough goods or/and coins to buy it but I can only buy a part, because the port is too full. I have to let the merchant wait and buy in portions.

I'll show you the content of my ports. I don't know what I should take away.

Turis

Sometimes, families move to an empty house, specially when the parents split and leave behind one of their children.

Nilla

#184
 Hmmm.....You might be at something @Turis. Although, I haven't had any splitting families. That happens mainly when you have more houses than families. That's not the case here. But I had this strange bug, when people get homeless. (It did happen a few times yesterday, too). Sometimes children get homeless, too. Maybe if a student gets homeless, he's kicked out of school.

Edit: ...... or maybe not. I just remember, that I made a few more screenshot of some homeless people. Among others one from these three former homeless people, two of them students. They have just moved back home and are still students.

If this homeless "thing" happens again, I will take a closer look at them and see. 

brads3

it is odd that you and i have a similar thing happen since we use different age mods. i am using a version of proper time.as far as i know,unless there is something hard-coded affecting it, distance to school doesn't matter.they should all graduate at the same age ,between 15 and 16. i have had 14 yr olds "graduate". by that i mean they become laborers. i will have to pay attention because i always assume they are educated.
    i don't think it has anything to do with distance though. i have some about the same distance,that are in school longer.one large school but so far has less than 20 students,can hold 50.though it isn't far from 1 side of the main village to the other,i have seen families swap younger children for students to move them closer.not complete families though. but even 2 houses side by side,1 might graduate early.
   not sure if we didn't notice it before. it is subtle ebough to be missed with larger populations. i usually figure they graduate at 15-16.i thinbk it is set to 5.5 years of schooling. there is times they seem to graduate closer to 15 and others 16. since i assumed they was educated,never gave it much thought.they don't all graduate in june like here.always figured they graduated and were helping the laborers. the last few years,trying to keep track of some things,i noticed a jump in laborers and when i built some houses,14 year olds moved in.

    the bannies are known to have minds of their own,so i always figure it is one of the odd wierd things.them wanting to quit school a yr or 2 early is minor. not sure why they do such things.i'll check to see if they are educated next time.

Turis

Maybe it's the lack of food or firewood that prompts a lonely student to leave school to start doing adult stuff and become an uneducated laborer.

Nilla

Well @brads3, not all graduate at 15-16. In vanilla game I have seen 23 year old students! Some are really hopelessly stupid and have to stay long in school. In fact it's not the reason. The old students live far away from school and the years "on the road" counts. That's why I said; I haven't seen, that students avoid far away schools. They choose the closest available and stay in that school and doesn't change schools, if they move or another school is built closer. If there are many available houses, they may move closer to their school. That's something I have seen, too. In this game with Norsemen a 14 year old, who live close to school, can be graduated. I guess it's the same in your game.

I don't know, if these shirkers ever was in school or just left after a few years. They certainly not left because of some lack. There's plenty of everything. The stores of food are again too full. Maybe we have to accept, that also in Banished land, there are a few hopless students, who never graduate.   :-\ :o

Turis

Oops, sorry. I meant the supplies at the house.

brads3

with the "propertime mod" my understanding is KID did away with the distance requirement.so it shouldn't act that way. that's what is odd,you and i have different age mods. yet see similar things happen.as for the students moving,i have seen families swap young children to neighbors for students,or vise versa.

TURIS,a market supplies the village and another market supplies the south.these 14yr olds who quit school lived within the market radius.they is just weird.

Turis

There's no adults to resupply the house except the student so he leaves school. The children don't do it on their own except when the parents do it.

brads3

i have good news and bad news. NILLA,we have no idea what is wrong with you.mine are educated.  :P

pic 's:centered on the market.school in lower right corner.all the houses are supplied by the market.except maybe the teepee above the school.it is on the line.2 14yr olds become educated worker. Elio from the native hut top. and Federik from the teepee just above the school.
note the 2 15 yr olds in the left huts. Terench graduates and moves to the west.Stewart continues to go to school for another year.

ignore Palmer in 2nd pic. he is a nomad that moved away from his people and stole a cabin by the forest.

last pic note Nickies son graduated at 15.

if it is distance,we are talking about 10 feet for a whole extra year of schooling. again ,mine are educated. no complaints.

Turis

From our point of view, they are all still children, but, in the game's pov, they're adults.

kid1293

No, @brads3 , about Proper Time -  I did not do away with distance requirement.
It still shows on time spent as student if you have a long way to school.
Most of the time they graduate, get married and get children, all in a smooth way.

Nilla

I still have no idea, what happened. I'm sure, it's no lack of of anything, that made these people quit/not enter school. The map is well covered with markets of different size; 18 in total on a not fully filled medium map. A few houses out in the woods are not in a market circle, but they have barns to get their food close, so they too are well covered with all they need. This can't be the reason. I still think, it's some kind of bug, possibly connected to the homeless people. I played a bit yesterday but saw nothing of this kind. We'll leave it for now. It's a minor bug. The education is still 100%, the population was some 900 as I discovered these uneducated. So there can't be more than 4 uneducated all in all.

I've decided to end this game now. I wanted to fill the map, but I must confess, the trading bores me. My main occupation is to manage the trade. And I only have 7 trading ports.  :o I have played games more than 5 time this big with 60 TP and the trade was less annoying.

What's the difference now?

Generally the trade is more interesting in the North, than with a vanilla trade, but that also means, that it's almost impossible to autotrade. In these big vanilla games, I used to autotrade most things I needed. Occasionally, when I wanted to make a brake from developing the town, I went through all the ports were a merchant stood; bought some more food (9999 is maximum in autotrad, you know) and maybe a few things, I've chosen not to autotrade. This way all these merchants left and also arrived next time, more or less at the same time. Here it doesn't even work to let them leave at the same time, because some have to stay much longer to empty the store several times before I can buy all I want.

Of cause, the trade would go easier, if I didn't fill the ports that much. But this would mean, that I could sell less goods to the high price, and will not have have enough goods/coins to buy all I need: I would have needed a lot more trading ports. I don't want 10 - 20 TP for 1000 people and I haven't planned the village this way. So no, not this time.

I haven't said much about production- and trade profit in this blog. I might have questioned the prize for the steel tools. It's high but not overpowered. I made a kind of different calculation:
20 miner, 18 blacksmiths, 9 charcoaler were involved in tool production. I estimate, that about 8 chopper and 12 foresters are needed as well: totally 67 person. I looked at a 5 year period, they produced 6100 tools. This gives about 18 tools yearly, worth 100 each; a value of 1800 each year. I looked at it now at the end of the game again and got about the same number: 86 people produced 7660 tools in 5 years.

We can compare this to other producers of export goods:
salter: 1000-2000 (depending on location, it's hard to get a good distribution of salt , it's carried around a lot. If we count in the less producing salters, it will be less for each worker)
smoker: 1500-2500
diary: 2500-3500
tailor (warm coats) 2500-4500 (big difference in production)
tailor (wool coats) ~1000
glassmaker (glassware) ~1200 ( a bit more if you only use one glassmaker)
trapper 2000-3600 (2 trapper in each)
herbalist 500-2000 (depending on temperatures)

One more thing I wanted to discuss; salter. You've increased the amount of salt needed (my initiative, I know). I don't know, maybe it's a bit too much. In such a settlement like this without farming, salting meat and fish is a main business. A good salter can produce 2000 meat each year (even if that high is rare), for this you need 250 salt. That's everything from one saltworks with 3 miners, that produces very well. I don't know, if this is reasonable.

If we compare salter and dryer: the salter makes more food from each meat but the dryer makes a higher trade value.

First picture

The Bryggen part has developed but isn't finished.

Second picture


100 years and 1000 inhabitants have passed. This game proves, that it's very well possible to build a larger Nordic settlement on harsh. It's a challenge but not all too hard. Well done @Tom Sawyer! :)

Third picture

I've cut together some graphs, if someone besides me is interested in such things. As you can see, this is a very prosperous settlement. I know very well, that I could afford to reduce the content in my ports a bit, trade a bit less, and not increase the amount of coins, but it will not be sustainable for very long,(without more ports) so I'll save that for some other game.