World of Banished

You want it darker? (click picture for Leonard Cohen's final statement)

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_8_50_38.png) (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v0nmHymgM7Y)


This is a little teaser for my Gothic Fantasy mod.

This is a mod for people who want to add a little shadow on the edge of their Banished space.
They actually bake bread but - No Lumber, bricks, glass or thatch. And no shoes!
The prices are consumer-friendly. Means - You do not have to tear down a mountain to build a wall.
Enough!

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_8_50_02.png)

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_9_09_52.png)

looks extremly good and awesome !!

 8) ;)

Oh, wow!  This looks terrific!  Is that a dragon statue!? That is some massively sturdy church!  It looks great.  I look forward to downloading!

It is good to have buildings that don't need extra production chains. 

(I never heard that Leonard Cohen song.  Thanks for linking to it.)

This looks really interesting. I'm definitely looking forward to this one. :)

There's more!

The happy version!

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_11_11_49.png)

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_11_12_05.png)

I added some banners for your keep (town hall).

(http://worldofbanished.com/gallery/2582_19_09_17_11_19_01.png)

Oooh, this light version is wonderful!  I really have come to like that salmony pink kind of tone, such as you have on the other stone house set, so I am glad to see it again on this set, or at least in the same range of color.  I like you roof shape designs with this set.  Something a bit different.

Is that not only a dragon, but a two headed dragon?! 

Those banners on the keep are a nice decorative touch.

I hope you will be uploading soon!

very nice you have been busy

SWEET BABY JESUS!!!

That is amazing! Please tell me that in the future update there will be some diagonal walls as well.

I like diagonals but I don't like to do them. :)

All I say is I am cooling off from modding now and, as I can see, I will release soon.

No worries.

@galensgranny - actually 3 heads. You can think of them
as Huey, Dewey and Louie. :)

Three headed dragon!  Even better than a two headed dragon!   :D

Damn! This looks awesome! Now i got time, so i will play Banished and try make some fancy stronghold! :)

Fantastic!  Can't wait to have them 

Download and be happy! :)   (or dark)

Hope this set in future will be upgraded with new stuff alike well let's pics show it.

(https://www.instant-gaming.com/images/products/1869/screenshot/1869-1.jpg)

Some flags, towers, grannary, maybe carribean alike textures.

And about that carribean alike texrures.

(http://guides.gamepressure.com/risen2/gfx/word/1045457921.jpg)

@DesoPL - I see you play Risen2. Do you recommend it?
I thought the guns were a trend breaker.

To answer your question, it was actually darker between 536 and 543 because of comet dust and a massive volcanic explosion. It was referred to as the years without summer, massive crop failures. This combined with the plague broke the back of the Roman revival under Justinian. This is exactly what I need to make a fantastic new town. Thanks so much.

Greetings Denis!

No, I think that moment was a real low point in roman history.
We don't want it that dark. But then - the future's so bright I gonna wear shades. :)
We're somewhere in the grey area.  :D

Quote from: kid1293 on September 20, 2017, 09:57:26 AM
@DesoPL - I see you play Risen2. Do you recommend it?
I thought the guns were a trend breaker.

Yep it's fun game actually. But i could recomend it only for those, who actually played first Risen or eventualy Gothic series. But Gothic series only toward Gothic 2 Night Of The Raven.

I've played Risen and the end was so and so. But before the 'locked' ending it was very good.
I've got Risen 2 and Gothic 2 but have no time to play.  :(

@DesoPL I still play Stronghold, great game.  :)

Quote from: kid1293 on September 20, 2017, 10:39:13 AMGothic 2

Gothic 1 and 2 (+NotR) were among the best rpg's I ever played... of course they're kinda dated now (graphics), but I still play a round occasionally...  :)

Quote from: Paeng on September 20, 2017, 03:11:46 PM

Quote from: kid1293 on September 20, 2017, 10:39:13 AMGothic 2

Gothic 1 and 2 (+NotR) were among the best rpg's I ever played... of course they're kinda dated now (graphics), but I still play a round occasionally...  :)

Actually... There is an mod what improves graphics.  ;D

I missed your upload because of work, but it's really nice! I like the cathedral, both dark AND light. Thank you for the gift!

You're welcome @Oona !


I hope there are plenty of buildings to work with.
I don't have it in me right now to expand.

Well, this is supposed to be fun and if it feels like work, then take the break you need.
And be sure to take care of yourself. Rest and recuperate.

Do you think interest in modding will die down now that Luke is not updating Banished anymore?

Modding will not be the same.
We have no hope of getting more hints on how to build mods.
It will only be what we can find out ourselves. Some of us are good at it. :)

Most importantly - There is an idea that we should 'finalize' this game and move on.
That can spread to modders and that will be the end.

edit - I like the idea of staves church!!!

I hope modding for Banished doesn't die down and people move on.  Just because the maker of the game seems to have moved on from Banished, doesn't mean players want to.  Players will like it even more with more mods over time.

I still play Age of Empires released in 1997 and the disk works even now on Windows 7.  Someone made a new gameplay mod for Age of Empires 2 (which needs Age 1 to work)  a few years after the original came out which renewed the game.

I still play The Sims 2 and even today there is a whole modding community for the game which makes it better and new.

They are later versions of those games, but I don't have an interest in buying them and throwing out the older versions when the older versions work just fine and I like them, like them more thanks to the modding communities.

I must agree.
When you like a game you don't want to trade it in for something 'better'.
I have played Morrowind off and on since it came out, Oblivion and Skyrim
do not get close to that. They have better graphics but I like 'my' old Morrowind.

Personally i could love some european alike buildings what is showed in AoE2, in Banished. And i don't mean here copy paste.

(https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/573438521461378938/0C03DACBD4A01B6F7B39190DC9CB3D244281E409/)

sometimes making a game "better" as you say doesn't work that way. games seem to hit a peak and find a version that everyone likes,expanding it farther changes the game enough that it loses players.SC 4 was awesome but nobody likes SC 5,FS 13 had  new maps and mods constantly but i don't think FS15 is as popular.

Quote from: kid1293 on September 22, 2017, 01:12:43 PMI must agree.
When you like a game you don't want to trade it in for something 'better'.

Indeed... sorry to bring up SC4 again, but look how long that lasts... and EA considered SC "dead" a long time ago (not being overjoyed by a community that just would not let it "die", not even to buy their desastrous follow-up a dozen years later).

Even if Banished is much smaller, it has that charme that binds people...  :)

we need to combine SC4 and banished. that would be cool.make our own maps and have the control of banished to dictate what buildings we want.

I'm so happy to have found a community of intelligent, creative, like-minded people who are genuinely nice, but very disappointed that it will probably go dead in the near future. Sigh. 😞

Very cool set... just built a small (happy) stronghold (here (http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=1593.msg40612#msg40612)), it's easy to place and has a nice variety of buildings. Also easy to decorate with other mods.

I'd agree that a 3-piece diagonal addon (diag in / diag / diag out) would loosen up things a bit... yeah, I know you hate making them LOL   ;)


One small question about the banners - they are hanging about 1 meter away from the wall, which looks a bit odd... if it's not possible to get them up against the walls, maybe make a little post to hang them on?

About banners - Rotate 180 degrees!

edit - they are meant for The Keep only.

Quote from: kid1293 on September 23, 2017, 03:52:36 AMthey are meant for The Keep only.

Oh, I see... didn't realize that   :)

Sir we will have more for this set? Like more houses, or tavern or anything?

(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/5a/5a594c30c37db765a820796ab96b94d3283cbd143afe0af99ba0480d6ae0f7c8.jpg)

 :D  There is a tavern, how about a school, for that poor child.  ;D

edit - Please

@Kid I like staves churches a lot, but I like this community more.

Borgund church in Banished would make me very happy.

But the creative people here like, respect and appreciate each other. As a group you create more than you each could alone. This makes me happier. This is why I do not request the church.

Luke has to move on. No doubt he is grateful to the people who love Banished. He may have even made friends among you. But putting more time into it would be professional suicide. There's no way around that.

@Kid, you owe us nothing. If you never want to mod again we're thankful for what you have given us.

But people still like your mods and I'm guessing they use them in different ways. Not everyone insists you mod in a way that keeps you dependent on Luke's input.

You may not have stopped to think of this, but you actually have a fanbase. If you continue modding, I think people will still appreciate them and use them. People probably use your mods in ways you never thought of when you were creating them.

It seems you're in a win-win situation here. If you decide to quit and do something else, you'll be happy doing that. If you keep modding, you get the continued support and appreciation of your fans. I wish I was you.

Just a quick reply. It is getting late here.

Stave churches are fantastic and I would love to have one in game.
It could lead to a whole new set of (wood) buildings. Nice color tone.
But...
Such a project is much more than we do now and it can/will burden the computer.
I don't know about coding but Luke made this game on his own and, in part, created
his own graphic engine. It is customized to Banished as it is and you can see the limits if you
fill a large map with buildings.

But the style of these old churches can be adapted and built upon. But then it is a fantasy.

@kid1293 my absence has allowed me to always visit with new surprise and awe each time, (not to say I wasn't surprised or in awe when I was on every day ;) just now I get a big whammmoooo of it, like a java hit), and this is no exception.

What an unbelievable blast of joy and excitement I got when I saw this, amazing!! 
I play(ed) Wurm Online A lot, far too much (I used to dream in character), and these buildings remind me so much of those hours amongst my friends and alliance, building and gathering, killing and hunting the bears, the Champion trolls, and on occasion server hunts. 

Moreso though, this shows your beautiful attention to detail, and I do love your art and creativity.  I'm not just fangirling, from these screenshots, this is going to be a fabulous mod, and I would love to play it!!

Quote from: kid1293 on September 22, 2017, 04:31:10 AM
Modding will not be the same.
We have no hope of getting more hints on how to build mods.
It will only be what we can find out ourselves. Some of us are good at it. :)

Most importantly - There is an idea that we should 'finalize' this game and move on.
That can spread to modders and that will be the end.

edit - I like the idea of staves church!!!

Some of you, most (all ;) ) of you are excellent at it - and each and every one of you are constantly learning and bringing new and improved mods to the game, you are all bending the code, the Matrix (if you will), to bring us new and interesting mods to enhance our lives, and our hours. 

I have my own issues with Luke, and as you know I've not kept that a secret, but - what the modders in this gaming community have been able to achieve in spite of him in the last 9 months alone - that is AMAZING!!!  I don't think any of you have hit the end of the road just yet, I think there's plenty more in the tank.

Anyway ... back on track - the mod ... What a wonderful mod - how very cool!!  :D

 :) Thanks!

And @QueryEverything - I hope you are alright and not absent because of illness.
Your naughty corner seems cozy enough. :) Trolls? Wish we had. :)

Hey @DesoPL ! (and others)


Just to let you know I have plans to expand Gothic a little bit.
It's in the future. That picture haunts me. Please! :'(

Quote from: kid1293 on September 25, 2017, 03:53:55 AM
Just to let you know I have plans to expand Gothic a little bit.
It's in the future. That picture haunts me. Please! :'(

Yay!  More, we want more!  :D

Do you need more refs etc? I can find some stuff.

Nah, I'm good. :)
I have an idea I want to try. It is outside the town wall.
I say no more - then I don't have to disappoint you.

Leaving breadcrumbs.

Does a school have to be large? Theoretically no, but some count that as a cheat.  :(

No, Kid, a school does not have to be large. 

No one has to use any mod they object to.


edit:  Oh, this is a hint?  A small school in the works?  :)

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/D6P2SiLMLN4/maxresdefault.jpg)

Can't find any better quality.

This set got potential to houses / stockpiles etc. Attatched to walls!

That's a huge undertaking building walls like that.
I just meant to build something not too big and I'm tired.

Yes, a small school is on the way and I have started to plan for outside the walls.
Some sort of farming community. I want it as a separate mod.
Mill, beekeeper, maybe walled pasture. Everytime I think of it - it is big. :(

And more storage, yes.
Anyway, I take it one day at the time.

Just a picture to show you the school, @DesoPL  @Abandoned  and @galensgranny .
Now that poor kid has a chance in life. :)

It's a perfect size-thank you for this mod.

I would love to get one additional piece for the walls (well, actually two) - a higher section and a transition from low to high (attached)... that would be great to make the walls follow a mountainside...  :)

* Naturally, I have lots of other ideas, too... maybe later, if you're up to it   ;)

Well I definitely love this mod, both light and dark and I'm currently using them on a game. This and the NMT mods are my current favorites to grow my villages with. I'm with several here who appreciate anything you modders do and will keep coming back for more as long as you do.
Some games never dry up, just change and keep going. Skyrim for example. I found it on console with the kids, later on pc and still play it today, modded to suit my taste at the time and continue to enjoy it. I hope banished stays the same. There's so much you can do with it.
Thanks again for all you do.

The school looks great, Kid!  :)

Thanks a lot.
Nice words always warms.

Here is a little continuation for outside the walls.
A small beekeeper with an occasional box of apples among the honey.
Most models are recycled!  ;)

( @ancientmuse - I overheard your wish  :) )

Quote from: Paeng on September 27, 2017, 08:33:48 AM
I would love to get one additional piece for the walls (well, actually two) - a higher section and a transition from low to high (attached)... that would be great to make the walls follow a mountainside...  :)

* Naturally, I have lots of other ideas, too... maybe later, if you're up to it   ;)

The walls are already 'High Wall' so it has to be 'Higher Wall' :)
If it is only those two pieces I can do it. I am outside the walls right now.
It will take a while before I update.

That looks nicely with these bee hives and new apple trees. I want bees too. ;D

 Would you mind including beeswax as well?

I love the bees!  I see similar sights here where bee hives are placed in orchards for better pollination.

Quote from: The Pilgrim on September 29, 2017, 05:40:56 PM
Would you mind including beeswax as well?

No, not at all. I will try to get my hands on resource files for bees wax (to stay compatible)
Any idea where to get them? I know CC has.

the source code for NMT 2.0 in my Laboratory has it

Thanks @RedKetchup ! I really appreciate your hard work.
edit - I made my own apple tree. I felt more comfortable. :)

@Paeng - Here is a test wall. It is about one tile higher.
There are four pieces - 4 tiles transition/4 tiles long/1 tile short/1 tile corner.
I totally agree. It is much better looking along a hill!

Beekeper nice. We need only idk... Hunters hut? Gatherers hut etc?

Need find a time test it at last!

I know it's about dark ages but we left the forest for the town.
There are plenty of hunters and gatherers around.

@The Pilgrim

OK. I have beeswax too. I just want to ask - What's the purpose?

Quote from: kid1293 on September 30, 2017, 02:38:40 AMI totally agree. It is much better looking along a hill!

Yeah, adds a bit of "movement"  :)

Quote from: kid1293 on September 30, 2017, 09:30:57 AMbeeswax too. I just want to ask - What's the purpose?

Well, candles seem to be the most useful choice... if you want more than just trade value, I like them to upgrade (deep)mines for longer life  :)

So, a candlemaker is not out of the question?
If they are used for mines and have a good trade value I think it's fine.
I guess CC have them for building homes? That I don't like.
It is just to complicate things.

How about a fair grounds, a fun entertainment area.  I always felt it so sad that the children in Banished had their fun running around the cemetery.  I guess you could use the cemetery and change it's looks and name to be a fair grounds/park. Basically, the Bannies would just do what they do at the cemetery and get some happiness, but we would see them milling about, so can pretend they are availing themselves of whatever you design for the space.

There could be vendor/refreshment booths (but you would leave them as deco only of course), puppet shows booth maybe (just a sign saying what it is might have to do),  musicians if you can put some people or a person holding an instrument, archery contest area could just be a round wooden target, benches, and something or other else.  I guess it would wind up looking like a combination of the market and a park.

Quote from: kid1293 on October 01, 2017, 11:56:50 PMI guess CC have them for building homes?

No, CC and DS turn wax into candles which can be used to light up (upgrade) mines...

There might be other uses (building mats) that I'm not aware of, tbh...  :-[

What do you think of an candlemaker addon?

I think it is justified with a good (CC) trade value.

Quote from: kid1293 on October 02, 2017, 10:56:31 AMWhat do you think of an candlemaker addon?

Sure, that's cool, gives an alternative product for just plain honey  :)

Trade value... well, products with nothing but trade value have their place, sure - though I prefer if they come in a small chain with other, productive uses.  ;)

Quote from: Paeng on October 02, 2017, 11:19:46 AM
Trade value... well, products with nothing but trade value have their place, sure - though I prefer if they come in a small chain with other, productive uses.  ;)

Just my thought. I think upgradeable mines sounds very interesting.
So, candles to dig deeper and sell the rest.

You could also have candles as a building material for certain decorative items. They could also be used in religious buildings, and in an abbey for book copying. Playing without CC for a while has shown me that the lack of production chains can be an issue, when you usually play CC. You could think of expanding on existing chains to make more refined or involved products. I would need to do some research to find some ideas, and there is nothing wrong with replicating elements found in CC, since many players find it a bit large.

just to add to this. candles is used for the 1st upgrade to the mines and quarries.the next step they use oil lamps and the mines are unlimited. oil lamps are also used for lamp posts in CC. KID's nice tiny mines don't let you  dig deeper.hmmmm  NILLA did the math and the trade value of CC candles is less than the beeswax itself.she did a village blog and  tested many CC production chains and said that for the time invested msny of the production goods are too low on trade values.she actually made a chart.

Just a reply. I don't have CC numbers but I thought about it.
I use 10 beeswax (value=1) to make 3-4 candles (value=8). There is a good profit.
Maybe a cheat if someone think so.  :(
Then again, use CC and you definitely don't cheat...

If your chandlers are educated, you make a profit of 2 because it takes 30 beeswax, tallow, or blubber. If they are uneducated, you lose 6 trade points.

So CC use 30 beeswax?

Thanks @AzemOcram !

If I use 24 they will go even with uneducated and 8 plus with educated.

That is not much profit.

I have all the CC numbers and did a balance study, (if you want that PM me), that has yet to be published, and yes it is a bit unbalanced: 30 beeswax input @ 1 value for 3/4 output @ 8, for 24/32. CC apiarys produce both honey and beeswax so you have to take that into consideration: work 20, work time 4, for 27/32 honey, 18/18 beeswax. I believe that Banished should have one or two high value trade chains, (some would call cheats), to help players meet challenges like harsh climate, or playing with disasters.

You must also consider the historical context where religious needs can out weight industrial ones. Also you can consider making the cost of the production buildings, or the maximum number allowed ways to balance the whole. I think something like 25 to 50% profit is something to consider. if you want a totally capitalist formula, to take into account investment, work etc, I have one.

Esterb, created some spreadsheets that give you all CC's actual numbers you can find here: http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/topic/988-cc-175-spreadsheets/ (http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/topic/988-cc-175-spreadsheets/).

Balance is a very important part of designing mods and you are right to ask questions on the impact of production chains.

Thanks @Denis de la Rive , I appreciate the link to the spreadsheets.

So after thinking a lot there is no real use for a Candlemaker except to 'lighten up'
Discrepancy's mines. No use in trading candles and if you have CC, you have candles.
I have always valued Discrepancy's work...

If I go for no candles I have no use for beeswax, sorry @The Pilgrim .

What do you say, folks?

it looks great !

That candle maker is a nice building.

On the subject of candles and such chains, here is some food for thought. Now, it is just an idea, not a suggestion, just something to discuss. In my opinion, something that our production chains don't take into account very well is resource loss in production, or at least the amount of resources needed to make something. The reason certain items have high value is because they take a lot of time or a lot of resources or both to produce. Yet, we make 30 candles from 30 beeswax (roughly) and get a value boost. Now, I don't know IRL how much beeswax would be lost making a candle, but certainly from 30 pieces of beeswax you can maybe make 30 small candles, but they are not going to light a church or a mine. Why not have 5 candles from 30 beeswax (imagine them as big candles that take 6 lumps of wax to make 1 candle) but a higher trade value? So you are still making a decent profit, but from less items produced. One of the problems we have is that there is no end to chains, i.e. we make nice chains for candles that get used to upgrade one or two mines, make some fancy churches, and are then left with a lot of trade goods. Because of the relatively high conversion rates of things like beeswax to candles, these chains are relatively quick to complete and we are then left with producing a lot of candles that take up storage. I would rather have a higher value to candles, but less produced, and a lot needed to make your mine upgrade or fancy cathedral so your mines are more of an effort to upgrade, that fancy church is a longer term dream. You also don't fill up the stores with a lot of candles, but still have a good trade value to them.

I wanted to do this with some of my products. Think about maple syrup. When we make maple syrup, it takes something like 40 gallons of sap to produce 1 gallon of syrup. Yet, the value of syrup is high to account for the production loss and time it takes to tap and boil so much sap. We can't really do this in game, because high value on foods doesn't really work as it is all eaten the same, so you are just starving your bannies with such losses, but in terms of production items such as candles, why not?

I know CC has already set the gauntlet in terms of trade values and high:low production values, but I really think it would be worth rethinking how we make these sort of production items.

Just my two cents.

Thanks @Necora . Two cents are two cents. :)

My thoughts goes to production loss and value.
It so hard to implement in game if there are several steps waiting after my product.
If I change CC numbers and raise the value - what in the future? Will someone think
in a different direction and change my values?

I have decided on my own to release the candlemaker with a requirement of 24 candles.
It is so close to CC that it nearly doesn't matter.
That makes it even for uneducated. There is no significant loss in making candles.
It also gives an edge by adding value 2 to each candle with educated worker.
It can be traded with a little gain.
I also want to release it to honor Discrepancy's work. He is right now dependent on
trading to get candles for the mines. All in all - trade value, a good cause and a greeting. Not bad. :)

Oh. I forgot. 24 beeswax to make 4 candles are 6 units/candle.
Do they collect beeswax with a coffeespoon?

@kid1293 two cents are better than one cents, unless its a different currency.

Quote from: kid1293 on October 03, 2017, 06:14:26 AM
Oh. I forgot. 24 beeswax to make 4 candles are 6 units/candle.
Do they collect beeswax with a coffeespoon?

Or, they make giant candles that would light a church or a mine ;) but define a unit of beeswax? Is one beeswax unit a chunk, that might render a tea cup candle, or all the wax from a whole hive that might make one of those season burning candles?  Another great aspect of ambiguity in Banished world. I have no idea how much wax a hive will produce IRL, but that decrease in number would also account for inevitable loss during production so even if the unit of beeswax is rather large, not necessarily all of it will make it into a candle. But anyway, it was just a thought about production chains in general, rather than candle specific. What ever numbers you choose will obviously work.

this is 1 of those ideas that would make more sence if we could get the bannies to use the items.some players hate making items just to trade away. it really doesn't make sence. i do like how candles are used by mines but wish houses could use them also. then players would like the idea of expanding. like you both say food production works the same way. u need to input a lot of grain to get flour or fruit to get jam,yet all food eats as 1 unit.sadly the game limits us on such things. i tried to come up with ideas on how to force the bannies to use different items especially households like candles and furniture.no idea i have come up with works. if food would spoil then preserving it with pottery would make sence.even if things affected the happiness more than now it would give us some options.so much potential is limited by the game itself.

Unless some modder tags candles as woodfuel to heat homes...

Hey 2 cents is almost worth a nickel around here, which is great since we abolished the penny.

I have though about how to calculate the value of a given product in banished, taking into account production input, work, and investment. It works by creating a constant for the values Luke use in his vanilla buildings. After you put in the numbers into a complex formula, you get a multiplier that you apply to the input value to determine the final price. This you can then adjust according to historical and design needs.

Going from a basic resource it then flows from one production to the next. I have it written up somewhere when I offered it to CC in the hopes of improving balance, if there is interest I can post it here. It looks complicated, but once you calculate the constants, it is rather simple to apply. Given the power of spreadsheets you can easily program it and us it in any production design.

Having such a tool is also useful since you can start at any point and see how to get a balanced value that fits in nicely with the vanilla economy. For example you want a building to cost a certain amount to build and have a target final value in mind, you then adjust input resources and work to get the numbers you need. Unless it is an essential survival product, people won't invest in unprofitable industry. Why invest 100s of value to build a building that generates a loss?

By having a system that is consistent a designer can then create an economy according to his game design objectives. It helps you to create a unity in your production chains. Having such a tool can lead to synergy in multiple chains where a loss in one is made up in an other, and creates a need to build several buildings to achieve a large profit.

Once you get into this kind of thinking you can apply the same logic to housing for example taking into account size, family size, burn and storage to calculate building costs.

Simple things hidden under the hood, but that give a feeling of a consistant logic in the game universe. We have such a great basis to build on with Banished and its physics.

Quote from: Gatherer on October 03, 2017, 02:22:18 PM
Unless some modder tags candles as woodfuel to heat homes...

BL has that in the production of fire bundles, its a really bad use of candles, easier to buy fire wood! ;))

@Denis de la Rive

Quoteand creates a need to build several buildings to achieve a large profit

That was what I am afraid of. Creating a new need.

I would love the need of new and complex supply chains!

Quote from: kid1293 on October 03, 2017, 02:41:13 PM
@Denis de la Rive

Quoteand creates a need to build several buildings to achieve a large profit

That was what I am afraid of. Creating a new need.

That is a design decision not related to a method of determining a fair trade value, and is a totally rational way of doing things. If you keep it simple then it should work, and having beeswax simply make candles for trade is ok too. In fact modular design makes a lot of sense now that there are so many mods you can choose from. If later you want to add functions, you can always make a new mod that includes what you already have.

Creating design tools can only be view as a way of achieving your design goals. The major risk in designing is to make choices without working out how they impact the game, and what role you want the item to play. You need to think about what you want the mod to add, or change in the game. Nothing wrong with it being just a nice building.

If its decorative, then no need for a production chain, if its to make an aspect of the game different then the elements must fit that goal. If its to fix a problem you see with the game, then that is what it is should be made for. One thing to avoid is to be limited by what others have done, harmonizing is one thing, but it should not be seen as a roadblock.

As a designer you will never be able to fit your mods to every gameplay style, its up to the players to choose what they use according to their style. You should always follow your heart, not the rantings of anyone, including me. Many who comment do so with their game style or wish list in mind, nothing wrong with that, but its not a way to design for a game.

DENIS, i like the idea of uniformity in values. that can be helpful.CC had medical issues with some of thier crew early in the year.now and then KRAY does come in to toss us a fruit basket.
    i don't think candles will give much heat for firewood. but we could use the wax for canning and preserving foods with some pottery.again this is historically correct but doesn't help in the game.if we ever figure out how to use household items it would add a whole new level to the game.
   i'll brainstorm a minute. can we make a church give negative happiness? it adds to happiness but can we take away from it?then we build a chuch or other building that if it isn't stocked,happiness goes down. when we keep it supplied,happiness increases.not the best fix but a workaround.

Quote from: brads3 on October 03, 2017, 07:20:18 PM
    i don't think candles will give much heat for firewood. but we could use the wax for canning and preserving foods with some pottery.again this is historically correct but doesn't help in the game.if we ever figure out how to use household items it would add a whole new level to the game.
   i'll brainstorm a minute. can we make a church give negative happiness? it adds to happiness but can we take away from it?then we build a chuch or other building that if it isn't stocked,happiness goes down. when we keep it supplied,happiness increases.not the best fix but a workaround.

You can't make this kind of building, the function is absent from Banished, and who would build a negative happiness generating building if you don't need it. Things like candles are best used as building materials or for trade. If you want to use beeswax in production that is another question.

In CC you can use candles in the fire bundle production chain which is counted as fuel, just like firewood or coal. In Banished, burn, (how long 1 fuel last), is a function of buildings so there is no difference between types, only on how much fuel is needed, and the value of the what you use. Things like charcoal, (in CC), are more effective because of the better output number per log as compared to firewood.

To tell bannies to light a couple of candles when freezing in their homes sounds like a joke to me. The best use I can think of is to bring light into a mine but lamp oil is a better choice for this in my opinion. So probably beeswax and candles will always be odd resources in Banished. It's a bit like with these feathers from chickens. They were brought into the game without a need and then funny ideas were created to get rid of it again and to not find barns filled up with useless stuff. What I mean is.. who says that we have to have beeswax just because we have bees for honey? ;)

As far as vanilla banished goes, yes trade only items could be considered useless, BUT... If you look at the setting of CC and other Colonial era mods, the whole point of colonies was to produce trade, so there, it fits perfectly.

You mean the New World was discovered to get all the beeswax? From the Candle Colony. ;D

Remember early on when people used to build the old greenhouse just to get those seedlings for trade? Well some people anyway. It was a tough world back then what with starvation death marches and all.

From a modding perspective it is probably different but I just like the extra buildings. So give me the butcher, the baker and the candlestick maker. I like having various buildings that add to the realism of my cities. I'm looking forward to EB's shoemaker because it is nice to have a variety of buildings in my commercial district. I wouldn't mind a banker, a hatter, etc. If people don't like them they don't have to use them.  Me, I like making candles. There are a lot of production chains though and sometimes I forget. I had a CC mine go dry on me recently and I had not a candle produced. Had to hurry and get that chain up quickly.

What you guys decide is fine. I just love all the new things being added. :)       

KIMBO,i like how KID made different "shops" with the wildwest mod.the shops work as houses but gives you the look of more.like the postoffice,undertaker,land office,etc.was a neat way to add that extra realism.

Hi Brads,

Yes! I should have mentioned that because I thought it was such a great idea too. You are right in that it adds to the realism and you always need housing and it is a clever way to do it. More of that sort would be wonderful. Also some of his houses had that store front look with out any shop or business name. I know I stuck one of EB's signs on one of those and made it a Hunting Goods store. :) Very cool idea by Kid and the signs by EB also.   

Is there anything i miss in that set? Somehow Kid's gothic farm gived me idea about addon for dock buildings like is in CC and eventually.

Butcher.
Well.
Bigger houses, something like is in RK's medieval ones.
Cementary.
Church.
Some decorations like shields, flags etc.
Mentioned before towers.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2017, 03:23:14 AM
To tell bannies to light a couple of candles when freezing in their homes sounds like a joke to me. The best use I can think of is to bring light into a mine but lamp oil is a better choice for this in my opinion. So probably beeswax and candles will always be odd resources in Banished. It's a bit like with these feathers from chickens. They were brought into the game without a need and then funny ideas were created to get rid of it again and to not find barns filled up with useless stuff. What I mean is.. who says that we have to have beeswax just because we have bees for honey? ;)

Indeed just because it exists in real life is not a reason to add it to Banished, you need to design within the limits of the world physics. One of these is that you can't destroy goods.

Personally don't like too much new trade only stuff. It takes more time and more merchant visits to get a few much needed items without special (and more expensive) orders.

That's one of the main reasons I like choosing a small select group of mods for each map.  That is why I like Red's stand alone old greenhouse one reliable trade item, and I began using it in first story, Smallville, as part of the storyline - environmental restoration.  Also the same reason I don't like too many production chains, how many players don't use cheats for that?

One is me.
I allways start at Hard , never use debug ;max 3 trade ports.
But i think you are right, most will just use debug to get seeds or livestock.

I use 1:1 aging or proper time on small maps, never debug, different start conditions some more difficult than others. 

Since we are discussing player styles, I find that if I don"t have several production chains, there is nothing to do after 25-30 years, stockpiles are full, barns bursting with food. You can always get new seeds, but they only change the look of your fields. Once you have a grain, a veg, cows, and chickens, (sheep are nice too), the rest is mostly decorative, not that this is wrong. Survival wise you are set.

Having chains forces you to strive for goals beyond survival, more so when it concerns building requirements. In my last town I played without CC, so I could try Nat/Div, and ran out of things to do!

One of my beefs is that with limited production options you have little to trade with when all you get are trader that don't take alcohol, you could trade clothing and tools, but that is just too risky.

Having options for trade that are balanced is important for many reasons, including helping players who are less skilled, and experts don't have to use them if they find it cheats. Trade issues can be solved by using specialized docks, that you remove when you are done.

I am a newbie and don`t want to step on somebody's ( your ) toes, but i always play Nat/Div + New Flora + CC.

I also don't debug and cheat (unless you consider using specialized ports cheating)  :)

And I also find playing without chains rather dull after a while. The important thing is that chains stay simple, not become convoluted monsters where you need to build five additional workplaces to just get one fresh resource or item...

My favorite chains are those that enhance food - a butcher to make all kinds of meat products, a saltwork to preserve fish, meat, veggies, a beekeeper to make met and candles... up to more involved chains like fodder/stable/fertilizer/, with an associated perfumery... or workplaces that make for more advanced building requirements like clay, reeds, glass, bricks etc... An occasional chain just for trade items is okay, as long as it does not become a simple "cash cow".

For me, chains are the salt in the soup.  ;)

i agree. i like it simple  ;)

i agree with most of what you all have said. however,i rather leave all my mods or all that i can enabled and not switch in and out each game. the mod order is so picky that i rather get it to work and then leave it alone. i can shoose which mods i want to use while playing it. i don't usually build everything in 1 map.plus if i decide i want something later it is already in the game. i don't have to add the mod and run the risk of killing the map mid-game.
       the debug gets a bad name.you all list it as a cheat. it can be a handy tool. 1st it is handy to check mods out and see how they look.it also is handy to check for mod conflicts.when CC did the last update,i ran the debug and threw buildings and decorations all over a mpa just to see what all was different.when i did upgrade to the 1.07,i ran the debug to see how the NMT and CC bricks would work as well as trade posts to see about double item tags.the other day a player asked about issues with the small tavern. i was able to take all my mods out except CC and run tests in  minutes with the debug. without it, the same tests would take hours playing "live".
      i also don't think of it as a cheat if used for start conditions.say you want to start with cows and a certain fruit. the game may give you that start if you restart 10 times,but it might not. you could debug it in and then choose to trade for the other seeds and livestock.actually adding bannies can make the game harder. you need to build more workplaces and houses faster.it does give you more options.
      for new players the debug can be useful. soe only pick up the game for a short amount of time off and on.say they made a small mistake,like the crop field got cleared in early summer, instead of starting over,they might want to use the debug to fix the mistake and then let the game play.this is quite ueseful when you start learning the game.

Quote from: brads3 on October 07, 2017, 08:18:59 AMthe debug gets a bad name.

Absolutely right, and you listed most of the good reasons for it.

I also use it to monitor my frame rate to see which mods create lag.

* Iwonder if it's possible to mod a "minimize" button to the debug menu - if so, I want it - badly!  :)

I agree too, I've found the debug quite useful for my style of play. I always have disasters on but I use the debug to turn off tornadoes for about 80% of the maps I play because I like the added challenge of disasters but I HATE the mass damage of the tornado. I'm happy enough with fires, disease and crop/livestock blight but I HATE tornadoes.
Other times I've wanted to focus on building a town rather than focusing on survival and the debug allows me to remove the survival needs so I can concentrate on making the town look the way I want it to.
And I think I might have mentioned that I hate tornadoes...
  ;D

You want it darker?

Here a test of cemetery textures.
Of course it could not be empty. All done with debug.  ::)

Nice cemetery @kid1293, will be a great addition to the Gothic set.

For those of you who like complex production chains, hopefully @embx61 will finish taking a break and get back to work making more of them for you.   :)

Quote from: Abandoned on October 10, 2017, 08:43:42 AMhopefully embx61 will finish taking a break

Indeed, he is much missed...  :(

* Not that I find his chains overly complicated, they all work nice and easy enough...   :)

indeed. i notice it has been too quiet lately

Quote from: brads3 on October 10, 2017, 02:05:53 PM
indeed. i notice it has been too quiet lately

Maybe we don't need it darker? :) :)

Allright,i see now the eligibility of the debug menu.
By the way ,i also don`t like tornados! ::)

:)

Tornados can be useful to clear up the mess you built.

(only kidding) :) :)

There will be any updates soon to this set? I started to love it.  :)

Hi @DesoPL - I have done what I think works well together.
Plus the farm buildings and some deco.
I don't want it too big. I am rather satisfied.

The short answer - I don't plan any updates.

Quote from: kid1293 on October 31, 2017, 03:58:25 PM
Hi @DesoPL - I have done what I think works well together.
Plus the farm buildings and some deco.
I don't want it too big. I am rather satisfied.

The short answer - I don't plan any updates.

But, please reuse the textures here and there in new things you make.  I particularly like the roof colorings on the "darker" house in the front of the second image you posted for that set and the corresponding multi colored roof in the "lighter" set.  It would be nice to see those roof textures show up again in some other set, some time.

@galensgranny  -  noted  ;)