Nilla-testing the North6

[Nilla]

So, friends, here I am: Back again to my testing.
 
I haven't really started to play. I had to upgrade the game, I still had the beta. But I took a look and have a few comments, just from looking. The pictures might be a bit dull, I made them more to remember my thoughts for this blog but I will use them anyway.

First picture

I see, that there are some new symbols and menu possibilities. No big deal, but why change the symbols? Even if yours might be better, we are used to the old ones. But it's good to be able to choose some menus of different size.

You may see, that I've chosen the "shepherds" starting conditions. Never played that before as far as I can remember. I very much like the "survivor" start. It's really fun and tricky. But since I haven't played any Banished the last ― year, I think it's wiser to start with something less challenging. But at least I choose a harsh climate and disasters on.

Second picture

There are some building materials, I don't know what it is and even less know, how to get. I don't mind and I'm confident, that I will find out. It's nice, that we finally can build with more than 3 materials.

Third picture

This might be a minor flaw. This is the only forester I can find or did I miss anything? I think, that most of us want foresters as one of the first buildings. For this one you need glass. As far as I can understand, it's not a very early building material. The building looks great but I don't find it fit to the small viking/ medieval Scandinavian buildings. It's more Russian 1900th century. Perfect together with the izba (and the red Scandinavian houses).

It's not a real problem. I wanted to play the North "pure", without other mods, but I guess, I will have to load at least one more mod. It will probably be one of Kid's; Forest outpost and Tiny both have simple foresters, that will fit.

Fourth picture

My greatest disappointment.

[Abandoned]

Nice to have Wise Nordic Woman back in The North @Nilla   

[brads3]

great to see you back. did yo enjoy your year vacation or were you kidnapped instead?we was worried for a while that you fell in a glacier.

         glad to see the toolbar pics. that keeps us in suspence of what might be coming.i did a few map blogs where i tried to give different views of the tools.it is another way to showcase modsi see some of why he did that,to show that the tools under it are changed in some way.
        you answered my question already. i need to upgrade again. i am still under beta 1.07.i just loaded it and was adding mods when it was upgraded to expand the building requirements. since there isn't many mods yet that use it,i held up thinking there might be more changes. that was a crazy spring. the modders were busy upgrading mods with the 1.07 and community icon both at the same time.then they kept getting bored and made new mods.it was fun trying to keep up.it was such a chore to redo so many of their mods. i tried to give them time to upgrade but they kept making new stuff at the same time.
        since you are a rookie again,be aware of the new flags.not sure how much TOM used them. i am cirious as to any differences from the other modders.  storage has changed. you won't notice it as much since you haven't added other mods. we have to watch where we put storafe and which we use where more than before. some stuff won't store like before and if you overfill a shed with a new flag item, things back up. i filled the start pile with thatch,and then nobody could clear and build farther. EB made some good market sets to help solve this.there is times 1.06 mods are handy. since they won't store new items,they move needed stuff to the bannies. since they can't store lumber,glass,or minerals,the old sets push more food,tools,and clothing. the whole storage system is a ongoing learning curve.

[Nilla]

No glaciers, no kidnapping. Just a bit time do do other things, than Banished playing and writing about it. People who know me longer, knows I've made some brakes like this from time to time in the past, too. But I knew all the time, that one day, I would be back. This game and this community are much too nice, to be put by side for a very long time.

I actually played a few years this afternoon and I have some first impressions and a few questions/requests/suggestions to @Tom Sawyer. Again I'll use the screenshots I made for myself to remember, what I wanted to talk about. I had to start a new game because yesterday evening I just took a look and didn't save anything. The name of the new town is the random Sigurdo.  Itīs a bit cool, because I think Sigurd is an old Nordic name.

First picture

July year 2. My 3 families have got homes. The sheep got a pasture. We have some food, firewood and basic building materials. (There's one small forester from Kid's Forest outpost mod in the south). Next quest; tools and clothing. I will use the possibilities in the North as far as possible. Vanilla buildings and buildings from other mods will only be used, if I see no other option.

For tool production we will need charcoal. So after the chopper a stack was built, then I went for the bloomery. To construct it, we will need clay. OK, that make sense. A large claypit now at the beginning? Makes no sense. But I have discovered a long time ago, that @Tom Sawyer hardly makes anything that doesn't make sense. And here is a possibility to make a mini clay pit as one of the instant tools. It's not so easy, because the spot, where you build this pit, can't be used for anything else later. And planning far ahead is not my strength. You can see the small brownish circle close to the menus. That's my mini pit. It's not a big thing, and I don't know, if it's possible to have the sign, that the pit is closed. It would also be nice, if it was possible to see, how much clay is collected that (and last) year, like at other "normal" menus.

The picture shows all the things, that could be made at the farmers workplace. We need clothes and have a lot of wool. So, wool coats it is. With the shepherd start I'm pretty sure it will work,  but I don't think it will work with less (or no) sheep from the start (each coat need 4 wool with these uneducated worker). It doesn't seem like the workshop could process hide from deer. I think it should. If you don't have all these sheep, you will have to build the large vanilla tailor right at the start (or better some modded smaller version, if one work with the deer hide). It would be a pity. I like the idea, that all necessary things could be made in these workshops from the start; less efficient, than in a larger specialized building, but enough to support a small initial population. Iīm pretty sure, that these kind of settlers knew how to prepare deer hide for clothing.

Second picture

The instant hunter has been changed. You don't need to assign a hunter. A laborer does the kill. I don't know if it's an improvement. It's easier, but it's also easier to forget, that you have put a hunter somewhere and a laborer walks around in the circle, looking for a prey, instead of doing something useful. I will not say, that I liked the old version better, I just want to know your motives, Tom. It would also be nice to be able to see at the menu, how much meat/hide was collected.

You can also see the workshop. It can make iron, tools, barrows and traps. It would be nice, if the menu had more lines, so you can see all different products. I have tried to make barrows. It doesn't seem to work. It's said, it needs wood. There's a lot of wood but the blacksmith isn't keen on carrying it to his workplace. Is there anything else needed?

You can see, we aren't very healthy, so in summer we will collect herbs and then build a herbalist.

[brads3]

did you have to assign a worker to the clay or does it function like the hunter with a laborer? does the laborer who starts hunting stay there or does he fgo about being a laborer? i am wondering if the placement only defines the area now and laborers hunt when they get near the circle. so they shoot deer as they see them now.how far out does it trigger? do they hunt miles away or just in the circle? this might be an interesting development. you place a gatherer in town and the laborers all bring in food as they come across it or find it in their travels.the quick hunters usually work a space about double the placement radius. can we combine this with NECORA's gathering ability?that would be interesting to see.
    i think your clay worker is ment to work similar to the hunter,collect clay around like the hunter does deer. you say it isn't removable?no delete button?maybe TOM didn't intend for it to act the same and the game decided different. did you find a tailor to add to a house like the blacksmith?
      you are fine taking breaks NILLA. those are needed. as long as they aren't bed-ridden sickness or hospital breaks.nobody needs to see those kinds.
hope you had some fun while you was away.

[Tom Sawyer]

Very nice to see you back @Nilla! Your tests and feedback was always an important part of this modding project.

The new forester lodge is not russian. The original is from your other home country in Bayern. I could not find something from Scandinavia. Seems there is no forester house in the land of wood.^^ If we find one, I can make it for another update. This here is indeed a rather modern style but that was the idea to have forestry as an achieved part of the "new economy". Before this time, your people just go to the forest to cut down trees. As it was in history. Depleted forests is an aspect of the game which wants to be solved if you play the North standalone. To balance this, natural regeneration (reseeding) of the forest is stronger than in base game. A small settlement should be able to work without a forester lodge. It may be something experimental but that's the idea.

And all tasks from the removal toolbar are now done by laborers including the new Dig For Clay tool. These tools are now even more reduced to work like collecting this or that. It becomes easier and faster to use because you don't need to add a profession and it also makes it unsuitable to run as permanent replacements for buildings. If a work is performed by laborers the game doesn't track production in this object. But I did not mind and removed this part of the UI. It creates another advantage of proper buildings where workers also record their production output.

This small spot where clay is mined from the ground leaves one unusable tile to avoid endless clay production on it, which would be inconsistent of course. It is 30 clay and enough for a bloomery and 2 trading docks. So clay pits will be only necessary for brick making. I really liked to add clay as a tier1 material and want to make some old clay huts or timber frame houses similar the new trading storage.

Ah and to craft reindeer parkas, check the campfire.

[Nilla]

I will make a try without forester and see how it works. As i said, I have one from the forest outpost but it could be turned off. And I should have recognized the kind of forester house as Bavarian. But these windows looked Russian to me. And I think you are right. We don't have forester houses like that here in Scandinavia. I think farmers cut trees in winter. They had some simple cabins out in the woods to use during the woodcutting season, but they didn't really live there. Later as the industrial revolution started with saw- and paper mills, it wasn't much different; simple huts for the workers. Their families lived elsewhere.

I fully agree, that the mini claypit should leave a trace. I can see the point, that these "instant" tools have some disadvantages, like no statistics. 

@brads, I don't really know how the hunter works. Since I hadn't discovered the camp fire (Thanks Tom, I will try it), I was very careful to use it, because I didn't think I could get rid of the hides. But it looks like a laborer gets to the circle. If there's deer in it, it will be killed. If it's none, the laborer walks around in the circle for quite some time; looking for deers. Eventually he will go away. I don't know what happens, if he sees a deer or a bird. It's possible, that it will be killed elsewhere, just like a hunter would do. I forgot one hunting spot out in the woods. After a while I saw 5-6 pieces of chicken lying on the ground somewhere else.

[Nilla]

Now I know a little more how the hunting tool works, and I don't think I like it! If you look at the first picture, you can see why.

I set the tool close to a big flock of deer. The woman marked with a red O came and started to kill a deer close to the houses (well outside the small hunting circle). Somehow she became a killing frenzy and went on with her bloody craft in an enormous speed. Soon a man came, who didn't want to leave "all the fun" to the woman. He killed a handful of deer close to the stone stockpile (also outside the circle) and then went away. But the woman hadn't seen enough blood, yet. She spotted a flock of birds in the woods and chop, chop, chop; all transformed to chicken meat in a few seconds. Still not enough; the few last deer that had managed to escape into the forest, weren't spared. I think she's just about to kill the last one at the picture. This is not very nice. I wonder how @Abandoned would handle a situation like this in her story. 

You may say; why didn't you delete the hunting tool to stop this slaughter? Yes normally; that's exactly what I would have done. But in this case I wanted to know, what happens next. Anyhow I like the way this tool worked before better: You assign a hunter, he/she gets there, kill one deer, carries first the hide (if you need meat) to the store, then the meat and if the deer are still around, kills a second animal after that. It's never more than a few deer killed, before the flock disappears.

Of cause it would be possible to kill the "right" number of deer, the way the tool works now but you have to be very active, and not let the hunting spot out of sight for one moment. I think it might be a bit hard, because you never know, how long it takes until one or several laborers get there. I guess it could variate a lot depending on how many free laborers you have, where they are at the moment and how many other assignments they have. The old tool was much more comfortable.

It's the same thing with the foresters. I turned the forester off for a few years and started to mark mature trees instead. The laborers collected food in summer and cut trees in winter. I think it would work fine, at least as long as you don't need to sell a lot of wood. But again; a lot of micromanagement. A small forester is much more comfortable. That's the reason I sent the foresters back to work.

I have problems with the gatherer. The second picture is from the first year I let it run. It's august and the 2 gatherers haven't collected much food. You can see, the circle is full of food, so it doesnīt look like it has anything to do with mature/not mature/wrong kind of trees. (My first suspicion was that the sly @Tom Sawyer will force us to cut the trees manually, if we want to pick wild food, but it doenīt seem like that) As I looked, the gatherers seemed more interested in firewood than food. Some years later (third picture) it's not much different. Now they seem to sit by the fireplace and roast venison, instead of picking berries.  Suggestions?

The third picture also shows the settlement the way it looks now in year 7. I just finished a trading dock. I will also build a trapper. If it hasn't changed, furs is very profitable to sell. I've also noticed, that the few gold nuggets my Bannies have found, brings a good profit. I've also split the herd to increase the wool production. The surplus will be exported as wool or clothes. I don't know yet, what and how much I will need to buy. First I will buy food of the "grain category" and maybe some vegetables for diversity, as soon as possible some seeds to try farming and a few cows for milk and after that some bricks and rooftiles, to start a brick and glass production.

I think Iīve found a small "bug". I got a warning that I ran out of ore. I think itīs acually iron/metals. fourth picture

[galensgranny]

I love the new hunting tool!  Get all the meat one can! 

[brads3]

LOL, too funny. so the radius out is worked about the same as the old hunter icon. i think this could be handy depending on how it is triggered.why did 1 guy hunt and then leave? where did he go? was there clearing scheduled to pull the lady back to? we need more info on how this functions. do you have a similar tool for firewood,gethering,etc? what happens when they empty the double sized area? i understand you think it is overhunting.i think it can be tweaked and adjusted. it could be quite handy though. in some set ups this spot won't be walked over often.
      hypothetical. if i placed this space in a fodder or thatch meadow,it might work and make sence. a laborer waunders through there to pick up fodder since he has time.he sees deer and hunts several of them. i could see trapping to be similar as well.keeps the rabbits and foxes down in meadows.or beavers along streams.
      your gather hut brings many questions. are "parka's" clothing? did they process deer meat and make clothing by themself? were they busy processing all those deer you slaughtered?LOL
  by the way  i think your "chickens" are actually grouse or quails.TOM didn't want to make them big enough to be turkeys or pheasants. the indians tried to convince him.they ate fish and rice for thanksgiving like chinease people.

[Turis]

Weird, I saw something like that but it was before this version. The killing spree was caused because the barn wasn't build yet. Once built, the hunter acted normal picking stuff up and stored after each kill. Was your food storage full?

[Tom Sawyer]

Hard testing of gameplay, Thats good!

I think both variants with hunters and with laborers have their advantages and disadvantages. In my tests I found it more handy with the laborer solution. At least in most cases. Your people are hungry and you see a herd incoming for a great chance to get a lot of meat. Now you just place this tool, wait for free laborers to take them and then quit. No need to assign workers first or to switch professions to make hunters available just for this action. Also no annoying behavior of hunters who carry one hide back to the village far away instead of taking more animals and then good bye deer. In test games with version 5 I always had a feeling to have to make a workaround by building storage sheds here and there in the forest or by spamming hunting spots for more workers an to keep free hunters in profession list working as laborers to be ready for the next hunt. But I also see your point in this case of rather uncontrolled killing deer by laborers and the wish to have more control about it. A cause of this lost of control is that a hunting radius always only defines the area to search for deer, it doesn't disallow hunting outside the radius. So if a worker is on the way to the spot after warming up or carrying venison to a barn and faces off a deer then he will kill it. That cannot be changed but seems to create more uncontrolled killing with laborers than with strict defined hunters. Maybe we find a better way between or so.

To the gatherer. I guess the parka and meat was tracked by a guy who was working at a campfire before assigned to the gatherer shelter. I want to research this effect more and it seems the game is tracking by worker and not by building. Not really good because it is shown in the buildings statistic. Berries and mushrooms are growing in summer only and can be gathered from about July till September. Its a short time and actually manual gathering is more efficient. It also depends on temperature. You have very cold summers in these screens and it can hit the yield of wild food. All these red spots are probably not matured yet or not long enough to be picked up by your gatherers.

[Nilla]

You are all right. This way of hunting may be convenient, if you need a lot of meat fast. But I don't think anyone will need the meat from 27 deer at once. It will rather cause trouble with full barns. No, @Turis; the barns were not full, at least not as the killing started, afterwards; maybe yes.

I happenend to have an autosave just after I set the spot but before anyone started the slaughter. More or less the same thing happened the second time. This time however the birds and the deer hid in the forest were not killed. For some reason, the first diligent laborer found them, the second not. Also this time a second person came for a brief help; killing a few deer and then went away.

To check the gatherer, I built a small one from the Forest Outpost next to the Nordic. And actually; the following year, they both collected some food. You might be right Tom, that it had to do with the low temperatures. I will continue to keep an eye on them.

And @brads3, parkas are clothing made from hides at the campfire. You can choose between making parkas from hide and firewood or roast venison. You don't need to assign someone to the campfire; a laborer will do the job. The campfire have no building statistic, so you can't see how much it produce. Am I right that 1 hide and 1 firewood give 1 parka and 50 venison and 1 firewood give 60 roasted meat? I had the impression that the production of parkas was slow but a lot of meat was roasted. I would like to have a statistic menu! The rest I like very much. The idea that people sit at the campfire, working the hides to clothes and roasting some meat, is sweet. It will have no use in a big economy, but here right at the beginning, it's perfect! (At least if it had a proper menu )

[brads3]

ohh so the laborers make their own clothing too. you have lots of neat new toys to play with in that toolbox. i do hope TOM gives us more insight on how the hunter triggers work,or decide which laborer to pull. an interesting new devlopment idea.

[Turis]

Frankly, I don't use any statistics menus. I just check that they have food, tools, clothes and firewood.