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About: Water

Started by Paeng, March 31, 2017, 03:13:16 PM

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Paeng

Okay, this is more of a luxury "problem", but I want to bring it up anyway... by now, we are getting a number of really nice water facilities, and we want to build them in every town, sometimes even a number of them - after all, they are realistic structures to have...  :)

So my problem is that most of them have a high output, but their use in chains is rather small... so if I have 5 water facilities in a town, I quickly accumulate 1000s of units, plus needing a corresponding number of workers for them, and storage and so on.

Meanwhile, facilities only use a small number of units per production, sometimes only 1 or 2, maybe up to 10 or so...

Any ideas how to use more water (a lot more water) in chains, so it is more than just another cheap trade item?
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embx61

That is a good question.

Maybe another option is to limit the output(s). The fastest and easiest option and it should work with saved games as well I believe.
My well can only be manned by one worker but I took the numbers from CC 12/16

Maybe I should lower it to 6/8?

Bakery, Tannery, Greenhouse, soup kitchen, brewery(Beer) are buildings I can think of what can use water?

Also the bannies are using water as it is set as edible.
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

Paeng

Quote from: embx61 on March 31, 2017, 04:25:58 PMMaybe I should lower it to 6/8?

Yeah, I think that would help - I have not monitored outputs that much, but most of them seem to produce about 500+ units...

QuoteAlso the bannies are using water as it is set as edible.

Though if I understand it right it has no nutritional value (?)...
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Discrepancy

Yes, water has no nutritional value. It is flagged as Edible only.

I do think the production is too high also.
I have slowed my work time and increased work required to slow my DSSV water pump down compared to the RK/CC/embx61 water producing buildings.

I have included Water in production of processed food, but yes only in smaller quantities.
But I have also added it into alternative brewing recipes for mead and ale.

embx61

@Discrepancy

Can I ask your values for the waterpump?
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

brads3

my opinion on wells would be to have most of them as decorations. as you stated,we only need a couple for use.plus then that would free up the workers  for more needed tasks.

embx61

#6
@brads3

There is a slight problem with adding them only as decorations. Not everyone uses CC/ and or NMT, some not even can play CC without bringing their PC to a crawl. My Tannery building need water to produce Cured Leather.
It needs salt too. That's why I designed the 3 building chain and if my leaterworks building is done it will be a 4 building chain. However instead of making the 3 building chain in one mod, what would have shared the rawmaterials in one go, I decided to release the buildings separate for those who maybe play with CC/NMT and maybe not like a certain building of mine.
If I not make a well/Saltworks all people who not play mods which have a water supply/salt supply will have to get them from a Trader as only option.
It is however possible to make the wells Decorations as well.

but....

Players can also just push the workbutton to disable work and nothing is produced.

Values given is another thing what is different from one mod to the other.
It all depends on load order. Highest in the mod list wins I believe and those values will be used. We try to cooperate with other modders as much as possible but some things still flow through the cracks and sometimes nothing can be done about it.

I will lower my production of water from 12/16 to 6/8 and increase worktime. But then again, if CC not update their values, and I am not saying they have to do that, and CC is on top in the mod list the game will use their values I believe.
[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

RedKetchup

#7
do we all use RawMaterialNMWater.rsc ?

the numbers should be
   int _lowCreateCount = 12;
   int _highCreateCount = 16;

but i think the working time of my water building are be very different than yours

NewMedievalWaterTower : int _workRequired = 16;
RKGardenWallsWell :    int _workRequired = 16;
RKGardenWalls2Well:    int _workRequired = 16;

seems all my water building have 16 as work required
so if you did put like 4 work units... it was multiplying x4 the output.
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embx61

Yes I use NMwater.

This are my numbers for water
producing 12/16
float _workTime = 4.0
int _workRequired = 20;

I allow just one worker to gather the water.

See what some other players think before I change the stuff.

[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

Paeng

#9
Quote from: embx61 on March 31, 2017, 04:25:58 PMBakery, Tannery, Greenhouse, soup kitchen, brewery(Beer) are buildings I can think of what can use water?

Still marvelling at all the new pump designs...  :D

A thought that came to me last night, contemplating a more modern farming complex (fodder, dairy, stables, greenhouses etc.)... field and orchard irrigation! That could use a whole lot of water and labor... even new professions - Trench digger? Pipe layer? Water carrier?


Another thought - make (some) wells like mines... so they can run out (dry up) and need to be replaced or upgraded (to deep well)...

:-[
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brads3

that is how i use the water towers mostly. just click them off and they become decorations.RED's NMT tower fits good in the middle of towns,and the older CC towers are good for forts. turning 1 on used to give enough water to suppply a tannery.
    as to the ouputs,i think it depends on how it is coded into the mod. i added a CC windmill pump to RED's fodder set the other day. i had 1 of the set's wells and it wasn't enough water. i let it run that way a year or so and the windmill was putting out less water than the fodder set's well. i had to build anouther well and switch the worker off the windmill. CC journey was higher in the mod order than the fodder set but did not affec t the output numbers of RED's mod.
  sadly the game wasn't designed with water as a priority. among many other things that could have been used in the game more. we have so many items with no prurpose now except to trade. the  housing code could have been expanded to use more than firewood. or the banis happiness should have been a more important part of the game play. the industrial eras we have already pushed the game is father than it was designed to do.

RedKetchup

i remember a very very old game , ceasar 4. to keep your citizens happy , you had to give them pottery. in fact there was food, more different food was better and then they were more happy.
they also needed common items like pottery, glass,... and another one. again more or all these items would make them super happy.
the higher class, plebician, needed also another more valuable items like cloths, furnitures, gold items... needed again all or most of them to make them happy... or they would be unhappy and leave your town.
the rich classes needed more decoration, more luxury like rare spices...

and was a super old game. Banished has  nothing like that, it is like you try to play and mod an atari game to compare this very old title.

and also in that game, each storage and each barns, you could control each item stocked inside with each numbers for each ........



so much can be done for this game.... but.....
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embx61

Maybe Luke will be able to put some more stuff in the game for us modders and players.

I don't expect and think he will do a lot though as he is working on a new title.

But..... Whatever he can give us we should take with both hands.

On the other hand he gave us 10 new flags/limits and to be honest I was quite surprised by that.
With those new flags more is already possible so he not completely forgotten about us.

I agree with some stuff sent to me through PM.

I wonder though why not have an open discussion on the forums instead of PM?
We should compile a short list of what we modders really want to improve gameplay.
I don't think making a huge list is a good idea because Luke will shake his head and think, forget this!!!

So asking for animated buildings I don't think will ever happen.

Some stuff he already has the code in place but disabled it like Soil if I remember right.
Not that I ask for soil quality stuff as Luke explained years ago he scrapped it for good reasons but who knows what else is in the engine but not enabled for hooks to tie into.

Even if it is only the clothing steps increase by a level, or 2. Maybe some more with happiness stuff as it is pretty lame right now.

He already has code to store what players want to store in the trade post.
Only thing is that Bannies can not touch it. So maybe Luke cab use this code and change it so that Storage buildings can use the same system though without limiting the Bannies to take the stuff out.

[size=8pt][color=teal]My beloved Kathy
As you were you will always be
Treasured forever in my memory[/color][/size]

[size=10pt]For my list of Mods with download links go here[/size]

brads3

i agree it would be nice to see a few abilities added to the gameplay. 1 being the ability to use all these items rather it be by the bannies or the houses.the modders will want access and knowledge of the animal animations.more clothing options besiders just coats would be nice.since we are dreaming how bout the vendors deliver items to workers and houses. i still swear i had 1 do that a long time ago. also add the ability to use horses and carts.i doubt we would get much but any help is always appreciated.

Abandoned

Well, I for one would certainly not want my little people taking items out of the trading post and then not have enough to trade when the boatman finally brings the wheat seeds  >:(  If the items are needed the trader can take them out to the nearest storage facility or little people can go to the market, but not the warehouses that they can't take items from  ::)