Nilla- Hobsonvick; misson impossible?

[Nilla]

Some time ago, I promised @kid1293 to test his "proper time aging" mod. I played two other such mods lately and I found them quite boring; the beginning is too slow for my taste. We discussed things, that could make such a mod more interesting for an impatient person like me. We thought of two things: a lot of nomads and more people from the start.

More as a joke, Kid made an empty buildingspace, that allures nomads. I found the idea really fun.... and good. You don't need anything complicated and expensive. Normally there's no real benefit in getting a lot of nomads, that have to be paid for with an expensive building. He made two different buildingspaces; one for 20% and one for 50%. The nomads arrive every spring. 50% would maybe be a challenge. But no, 20% is enough in this case, because @Tom Sawyer also made a little something: An impossible start to his Nordic game with 10 families without anything instead of 3; no tool, no clothes, no food; nothing! Maybe this is really an impossible start? Perfect! 

First picture

My God, it's a lot of people! I cut in the settings. I choose the Lake map for two reasons; I don't need a lot of space in this game. It will not be a really big game, just a small test. I think, fish will be an important part of the nourishment; fast and easy to get. A lake map guarantees a lot of fishing spots. The other options are as bad as I can think of.

As usual; I didn't put any effort in searching a special map. This was the first, and it turned out to be very good.

Second picture

This was my first attempt! It really didn't need to happen: I was too busy to exterminate all close reindeer, to assign builders in time. Stupid! So I had to restart!   

Third picture

Another kind of problem. Now they starve. Why? The ground is splattered with meat! The small barn right to the house has been in planning for a long time. Why don't they build it? If you look carefully, you may see there's a dead reindeer on the spot. The people can't clear it. Where could they carry the corpse? Ther's no barn! A couple of new barns assigned. Problem solved. No one starved to death! At least not now!

I will tell you more later.

[Pangaea]

Looks horribly hard with so many people at the beginning and no tools or clothes. Though it must help a good deal to be able to kill some reindeer from the get go. Will be interesting to see how you cope

That's a huge lake btw. Is it possible to build a tiny bridge from one of the far sides to the island in it? You know, just for kicks 

[Nilla]

I'm back home and will now tell you how this settlement went on. As I read, what I wrote this morning, it seems like there was some starvation to expect.  But I'm sorry to disappoint you: No starvation, so far. 

First picture

May year 3

Now everyone has a tool and a warm coat, but not homes. They will have to wait, I only build in winter. This time of the year (almost) everyone is sent out in the woods to collect everything you can eat. The health is poor, so they will also collect herbs, and I will soon build an herbalist.

Second picture

September year 3

Can you see the queue to the herbalist? All herbs were gone in no time.

I keep an extra eye on the individuals right. These 3 young laborers just missed school. My experience is, that uneducated have big affinity to the professions of blacksmith and tailor. The child below is the oldest child. I will see when he becomes 9. One year later, I must put a teacher into the school.

Third picture

March 6

Now everyone has a home, except young Dariano. I don't know why the parents threw him out and he doesn't want one of the young single girls eather. And I'm almost as evil as his parents; refusing him a house of his own. Dariano; don't be so choosy! These girls are lovely, pick one (or are you such a weird guy, that they don't want you)

I don't know if it's wise to build this construction at the moment. probably not. Even if nobody starve, I feel far from safe. It's just enough of everything. But as I said; this is an experiment and not a safe game. If it goes terribly wrong, I can always go back and try again.

Fourth picture

Here they are! 10 new citizens. All uneducated. All wanting, houses, food, clothing, tools and more.........

We'll see later tonight if it's manageable.

By the way, Dariano finally moved to one of the girls. I wonder, if she was tired of being alone and thought; this guy is better than no guy or if he changed some unpleasant behavior or simply he just turned 15 and the modder in his almighty wisdom, has set the age of building couples to 15?

[kid1293]

The enlightened modder deemed mankind ready to settle together at the age of 15, yes!

(to avoid nasty situations with 12years - 45years)

BTW. Have you tested New Flora mod by tanypredator?
It has very nice gatherer buttons for all kind of stuff.
AND it adds Wild oats and Rosehips as food.

[Tom Sawyer]

I like all your village blogs but this one will be my favorite. A real adventure. And very nice screens to follow the story (I have to open the pictures in a new tab to get 100% size).

What a massacre at the beginning.^^ How do you get so much deer? Was it a spamming of hunting spots? When I saw this battlefield I was thinking... ok, let's see what her people will eat next year. Because fishing is no choice without tools. But it looks good so far. The health is going down but the trading post is already up and will help. You get your tools with the cheap workshop of the forest outpost. I could say, a tiny cheat to break the wall to the tools without a proper blacksmith...

And you've got a nice lake map with this spit of land. Could be interesting, if you can reach the other side.

[Denis de la Rive]

All I can say is wow! I like to think I'm good, but you out class me! 

[Nilla]

Thanks for the nice comments.

@Pangaea yes, I looked. It's possible to build a bridge to that rock (it's not really an island). Maybe I can also squeeze in a small fisher and if I'm lucky a small shed. I will give it a try, if I live long enough to reach that spot.

No, @kid1293 I haven't tried the New Flora. I have some mixed emotions about that mod. The idea of early collectable grain is great, but as a farmgirl, I do have a problem with wild oats (vildhavre på svenska). Even if there might be other types on other continents, that could be eaten, here it's a terrible weed, and I really don't want it in my nice Nordic world. And besides; the Nordic mod also have gatherer buttons for various things; I use them a lot!

@Tom Sawyer, I killed every deer I saw. It's a good trick for the impossible start; if you have no barn, the hunters will go on and kill, kill, kill until there's no deer left. Bärsärkagång! (Look that word up and you'll understand what I mean, fitting the North ) To build a barn, even took a little bit longer, than I first planned in this game and of cause, I sent several hunters to every flock I saw, knowing that meat is the easiest, fastest start up food.

And yes, this small workshop might be a little cheaty but very practical at the beginning. I'm sure I would have managed the start even with "proper" blacksmith and tailor. Maybe it would have taken one more year to equip all, but it would have worked, too.

@Denis de la Rive, we haven't seen that, yet. The game is only a few years old, there's many obstacles on my way.

I didn't play much yesterday. There's something called "life", that held me away. And I just thought a bit about what I did, and have decided to start over again, not from the beginning, but from where I stopped the day before yesterday.

The nomads was not the mistake. (Or maybe it was, but I in that case, I will make the same mistake again): My thought was to expand fast now at the beginning and than slow things down, as the population reach a couple of hundred inhabitants. That means; take as many nomads, as fast as I can manage and have many babies: Big houses for everyone. I'll explain to the pictures I made, why I will make it different.

First picture

I built these big rowhouses for 6 persons (I would have liked the red Nordic homes, but I have no bricks and these are nice, too). Families of 5 got their 4th baby. Look at the population statistics; 31 adults have to support themselves and 11+24 students and children. With these big houses, I'm sure, that it will get worse; the ratio productive/not productive will get down even more.

Second picture

I took a second batch of nomads this spring, two years after the first. Look at the educational rate! Less than 50%. Could a population with 50% uneducated support so many people for such a long time? Since it will take so many years (15) for children to grow up, the educational rate and the number of productive adults will only increase very slow. I don't think this is manageable.

It's a bit sad to go back now, as Mont, the friendly merchant for food and goods will save us some years, but never the less, I will. This time with few and small houses. I haven't decided yet, if I will take a second batch of nomads. The reason that I wanted nomads in the first place, was to make the game less boring at the beginning. This game is very far from being boring, it probably would have been also without early nomads, so maybe they have lost their purpose. But on the other hand; challenges are fun! 

[Nilla]

I went back to year 7. Took my 10 nomads, built them some houses; small rowhouses for a 4-person family this time. Than I took another 13 nomads two years later and tore the welcome sign down!

I have decided to follow two "rules" in this part of the game; don't let the educational rate drop below 50%, don't let the unproductive (children and students) be more than 50% of the total population. So, no more nomads until the educational rate has increased to at least 70%, and only few and small new houses. I hope this will work.

It looks as if it really does work! In fact, it works very well. I'm beginning to think, that it wasn't really necessary to play these two years one more time. It could have worked with the big houses, too. I had a little problem with clothes for a short time, but after I finally could buy some sheep, it has improved.

First picture

I can't build many Nordic buildings, yet. Not one single Building supply merchant has payed his visit. Finally comes this Benning: What! Sold out on bricks! Doesn't he want to make any business, bringing only roof tiles, wood, stones and expensive tools? 

I'm beginning to think about building a special raw materials port. I would very much want a couple of big barns and the little nice village store. (It works a little bit better than the small market, since it doesn't contain any textiles.) But since I will not build any big Nordic houses yet, I have decided to try a little longer with only these 2 normal trading ports.

Second picture

This is how it looks now: 100 inhabitants; 50 adults, 13 students, 37 children. I've cut in a couple of graphs and menus.

I have plenty of food, but you can see; its mostly fish. The fishing docks really save this settlement. Until now, I  bought mainly wheat, but I have started to order some fruit and vegetables, as well. The gatherers doesn't get enough anymore.

[Nilla]

I didn't tell much about these settlement lately. I haven't giving it up. It lives and prospers. No big difficulties, to talk about.

I haven't said much about the main reason to start this game and load these special mods. (impossible20 and nomad space): To test the proper time mod from @kid1293. I know, you are busy with your lovely mission so this might not interest you so much, anyhow.

First of cause, with these special mods, unlike all other games I played in real time; the game isn't boring at all. Of cause that has nothing to do with the proper time mod, and I think such a mod ought to be offered as combination, to give it an interesting start.   

The nomad space is funny, but it's certainly not easy to take such a large number of nomads. The education rate gets down, dramatically and stays low for a long time. A start with much people might be easier. It doesn't have to be "impossible" with no supply. That's not easy. Give them a barn full of stuff. Than you can start the game with building houses, schools.... without all too much stress.

The children are born quite close. First I thought, too fast. But I think it's good this way. If you only build vanilla houses, a year more would probably be better. But if we assume, that we have a variety of homes available, with different family sizes, I think it's easier to control the population growth this way.

I see no weird things, like 60 year old widows taking 12 year old "toy boys" and reversed. That's good. 15 years as limit to move together works fine, most of the time. Only, if you take nomads, there's always some 11 year old laborer occupying a house of his own for years and years. It's a bit annoying, but we can live with it. I find it better this way, than in the vanilla game, where 10 years old move out and start to produce babies, if there's no school.   

I also see an influence of the distance to school. It's still a small settlement, so they graduate between 14 and 16. Here we have another slight annoying thing: These 14 year old laborers have an affinity to new built houses. They move there alone until they get 15. It's no real problem, because it doesn't take long until he/she is 15, but maybe a few more month in school would prevent this. On the other hand; This is a small settlement, small distances. I don't know how it works on a larger map. Maybe the average graduation age increases to 16 or more. With this proper time, they stay much longer in school, anyway, so I change my mind; leave it the way it is.

You must have changed one more thing from the vanilla game; This may cause some trouble in a larger settlement: Normally a student never move alone to a house, or two students together.  They do here. It's also not very probable, that a student and a laborer moves together, as long as there are laborers of both gender. In this small settlement, it's no real problem, the student will soon graduate. He/she never moves far away from school. But if the settlement is large, he/she might land in a complete different part of the map and spend a lot of time walking between school and house. The vanilla game must have some kind of probability-factor, that makes it more likely that a laborer, than a student moves out.

But all in all; I think you have made a good proper time mod.

A couple of pictures

First picture

I have a lot of children, so I build houses for 4 person. But the settlement will still grow. If I build enough houses, these mothers will be young enough to get another 2 children after the first have moved out.

The game feels very safe. In the background you may see one of my measures against this safety!   

Second picture

What have you done to the ordinary school @Tom Sawyer. I didn't notice this before, because in the other games, I replaced the first school with the Nordic school as fast as I could. Here I hadn't had any bricks until recently. As I had 15 students, increasing, I wanted to build a second one. By chance I saw this! What cheat is this? I don't recognize you at all! 

Third picture

Here it is, together with the second measure: Immigration office and some Nordic houses for 6 person.

[kid1293]

You are quite right @Nilla ! I stay in the background for a while.

Nice to hear your judgement!

IF I am going to change anything - is it schooltime or marriage?
You can't avoid newly married with long way to school AND laborer moving out alone, early - at the same time.
I haven't had any problems. I usually build on a small map in a very tight way.

But you are right about them being greedy for houses.
I sit tight and wait for them to hopefully find a spouse before I build a new house.
Different playstyles - different results...

[Tom Sawyer]

Oops. Fixed for the next version.

[Nilla]

If I understand you right @kid1293 ; you could set the marrage age to a special age (here 15) OR let marrage age the same as adult age (which makes 10 year old uneducated kids move out and have children) not both. That's a pity. Both have its disadvantages. I think, I understand now why @torgonius took away the importance of the distance to school in his real time mod (he too has an age limit, when they marries) In that way, he took away the disadvantage, if a married student move very far away from school.

Could you make anything else?

What if you do both the things you suggest?

If you shorten the schooltime a bit, say ½ year and increases the marrage age a bit, say to 16?

Only children who lives far away from school, will not be graduated, before they get married and if they than move out, maybe they have luck and move closer to the school. Another thing, if they graduate earlier, it's not quite as many unproductive students and children, related to the productive people. It's quite tough the way it is. One year longer before they move out, will have the effect, that the settlement grows a little bit slower. The first child comes later, the child stays at home longer and the mother might get too old to get another child, as the old has moved out. I don't know if it's good or bad. It's bad at the beginning, when you want a fast development but good later to prevent, that the settlement grows out of control. One definitely bad thing is, that houses will be occupied by one person longer. Of cause, a 14 year old laborer will grab a house and live in it alone until he/she is 16. even if there is a big bunch of older people, waiting for a home.

Nothing seems to be perfect. And as long as the settlement is small, it works very well your way.

I have a question to you @kid1293 : Do you need a vanilla marketplace to get nomads to your immigration office? I built an office and no nomads arrived for a long time. Maybe I'm too impatient and they will come. But i realized, I only have your small markets and some of Toms Lanthandel.

Since no nomads arrived, and the game was too safe and slow, I put up the nomad sign again and became a nice big bunch!

First picture

Here they live, my new nomads.

Second picture

This is a strictly segregated society.    Here live only young well educated original citizens (OK, when a nomad child finishes school he/she's in this club, too). 

I will hardtest the warehouse. You might have noticed, that I haven't been completely satisfied with it in my other settlements. Maybe I didn't use it the right way or there is really something wrong. I'll find out. Here it's located a little bit away from the mine. One forest "node" in between. Too far to be used as a barn by the miners but not too far for the vendors to get the iron.

I've cut in production statistics and the population graphs.

Third picture

My initial, now trading village. I've cut in my inventory, food graph and the content of my trading ports, both the same.

I try to increase the stores of wheat, I'm planning to build a brewery.

[kid1293]

OK. I can shorten the schooltime 1/2 year and increase marriage age 1/2 year.
That means I probably should increase minimum pregnacy age too.
I have some bad experience about changing these things in the middle of a game,
but I do it for you. Will test compatibility this evening and post result.

My immigration office is working alone but I have a low percentage of nomads,
so if you don't have enough people - no nomads.

BTW. I have the vanilla timeframe for nomads so it can take up to 3-4 years before
nomads arrive the first time.

Do you need any other 'nomad attractor' ?

[Nilla]

Don't change it now for this game. I have bad experience with changing things in an ongoing game. Even if the creator says it's compatible; I had crashes. What I said, was more some kind of discussion, what could be done.

And no, I need no other nomad attractors. If I want many I'll put up the sign, if I want a few; I'll wait and see what arrives in the immigration office.

[Nilla]

I've played a few more years and will show you a couple of pictures.

First picture

Maybe I feel a little bit too comfortable, building some of these really big houses for 8 person families. In a normal game it will make no difference to a 6 person house. It will never be full anyhow. Here I'm sure it will.

Second picture

WOW! Something new! We Nordic people might be very resourceful, when it comes to alcohol, but iron?(järn). I think we might need an alchemist on the proffesion list.

Or have you heard the expression "ta ett järn", @Tom Sawyer and misunderstood it? Here we're talking about the already made alcohol, not the rawmaterial!