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Nilla- Hitchco, testing the latest version of the North

Started by Nilla, October 08, 2016, 02:37:40 AM

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Nilla

I'll try to explain @brads3.

In this Nordic mod you have a brewery, that looks exactly like the vanilla brewery. It makes schnapps from potatoes, beer from wheat and liqueur from blueberries and schnapps, but it doesn't work like a vanilla brewery. People don't get there to drink. It just produces.

They go to the inn and drink and eat their crayfish, if you choose the crayfishparty. You can also choose just drinking. When the barkeeper brought his stuff into the inn, something @Tom Sayer calls "cheers" is produced, that works like ale in the vanilla version; people idle in/at the inn and one "cheers" disappears.

You can build a second floor to the inn and it works like a boarding house.

Beach party? Hmm..... I think the crayfish party is enough for me. I'm an old woman, can't endure too much party.  ;)

And who knows, @kid1293, bugs in liquor could taste better than worms in liqour. I've never tried any of them.  :o ;D

kid1293

Quote from: Nilla on October 15, 2016, 01:41:19 PM
bugs in liquor could taste better than worms in liqour. I've never tried any of them.  :o ;D

Me neither. My whisky is old enough.  ;D

brads3

thank you Nilla,that was a good explanation. i like the nordic buildings Kid has made for us that dont play THE NORTH. too many differences so we cant play both CC and THE NORTH together. it is nice to have the variety of different buildin g styles thou.

Nilla

I've been thinking of one thing about happines. The only "building" that really makes sad people happier is a graveyard. Have any of you modders studied, if the graveyard is somehow different, than the other happiness buildings in the codes? Or is this defined in the code of the person, that as far as I've understood, is not accessable?

I have tested the autotrading. As i said, I don't really need autotrading for my 3 ports and it also has other limits. I buy more or less all rooftiles and some of the bricks, that are brought, but I don't need more than that, so no need to order and pay the higher prize. But I can't autotrade for these materials. I don't need any stones, that would be delivered as well.  Even if I ordered roof tiles and bricks, I couldn't autotrade. I need much more roof tiles than bricks. The merchants bring about the same amount, so I would get too much bricks and maybe not enough roof tiles, if I autotraded . The same thing with the merchant who bring materials. I use to buy his iron ore, iron bloom and wool, without ordering, but I don't want any other of the materials, that are put together as resource or textile.

In this test I buy grain and coin. I've found one little bug; You have to take away daler as possible payment to the export merchant. It seems like the autotrade prefers daler as payment, even if you so to say "buy" daler. First I was puzzled, after the export merchant had made his trade. He only had a few dalers left, so some business must have been done, but all my goods still seemed to be in the port. Soon I realized, that I've "bought" my 200 dalers and payed with 200 dalers. Excellent trade!  :-\ :o

I think 50 years is enough for this test. The update of the Nordic mod is nice. The start was difficult, but after I established farming and trade with tools and clothing, it works just fine. Maybe even too good. The new trade values work, at least the way I use trade; mainly to buy wheat, bricks and roof tiles. I would like to test, if it could work also without any farming.

What are your plans for updates @Tom Sawyer? Maybe it would be a good idea to make the small changes, we have discussed for a second beta version. You could also put this as an "official new version". It works fine. But maybe the trade ought to be tested a little bit more. I think, it's a delicate thing to set trade values. I like, if it's possible to support a settlement mainly with trade, but it shouldn't be too easy.

Picture

If I wanted to go on with this game, I could expand to the north. I've started to prepare the area: Build a tunnel, clear some land, build a store, a house for the workers in this area, plant some orchards. This would be a farming area. With the Nordic mod it takes time for the orchards to grow and this is Banished; you always have to be ahead of the development. In some years, when this area really starts to work, the apples are ready to harvest. This is the kind of planning I do.

If you look at the population graph, you can see it's "broken" two years ago. If I saw a graph like that by someone else, I would say, epidemic. And yes, some kind of epidemic it was here, too, but in accidents. That year there were 6 accidental deaths! 4 smoking lungs (40 % of my charcoaler, extremely dangerous job!), one falling tree and one poisonous berries but no mining accident!  ??? I had a similar epidemic of childbirth deaths early in the game.

There were a couple of good harvest in a row, so the food stores are well filled; a lot of potatoes. The food merchants also arrived regular.

Tom Sawyer

#34
Yes, auto trading for bricks or other special materials does not make sense. I think the main use of it is to get food, especially grain. And to export stuff. The export merchant also takes money but actually it is just a "no trade". If they prefer money it is not good. I will test it without wanted money. This would mean, that pennies are not available as change. Not easy to deal with the trading system.

The job of the charcoal burners is not healthy, as I said...^^. Maybe too much. It's the same chance of death like the stonecutters. I will reduce it to the value of miners.

I think you've tested everything that was new in this version. You found some nasty bugs and important knowledge for balancing. And of course it was very nice to follow your story. The planned changes and maybe to be tested in a Beta 4.1 are: Brickyard and clay pits, export merchants with different demands, balanced trade values and of course the fixed bug for alcohol export. Another change is to store bulk goods like clay, coal and ores on piles. I made a model and it looks good. The valuable and further processed scattered resources. My idea was to use the sheds as small storage for materials and the warehouse for a big one. Or I make a new model. What do you mean? Do we need the warehouse with market function or not because it does not really work. I'm undecided because I think the idea of providing raw materials by vendors was not bad. And another question, where to store the money? An idea is to store it also in the town hall (only money but with a high limit). The town hall could have more functions. And I think money should not be stored in barns. Changes of storage locations have a big impact and should be done wisely...

The claypits are done in two sizes but the brickyard is still under construction. If you wait a few days, you can test it in a bundle. Or I make the small changes for a new map. :)

Nilla

I said it before; don't bother too much about making the autotrade perfect. I've said it before: In a normal Nordic game, it doesn't have any real importance. You will never need to spam the river with trading ports and you will always export various goods. Maybe to buy food, but I would even say, that it wouldn't  work very well with other food categories than grain; where all (=both) grain cost the same. If you autotrade vegetables without orders, you might not want to buy expensive peppar and so on. And if the pennies are not available in an autotrading system, doesn't matter much. Computers normally can count and get 3500 together from merchandise worth 21/4/6/9/66. The human brain might have some problems, though. ;)

I don't really mind, that charcoalburner is a dangerous profession, but maybe it shouldn't be more dangerous than mining, so the same probability of accidental death sounds good to me.

To the warehouse. I forgot to tell my experience of the changed model. It worked much better than the first version. There were all kind of materials there all the time I looked. But I produced everything close, so I guess a big barn without vendor/s, would have worked as well. I don't know, if there's an advantage to have vendors to "drag" materials together or not. I'm not even sure, that all these specialized storages, that different mods offer, stockpiles, barns and markets just for one special thing, really improve the game. Of cause, you get a better production from a woodcutter with one specialized stockpile for logs on one side and one for firewood on the other side, not one piece of stone blocking the space. But I don't mean it's an improvement. If specialized stores, please not too specialized.

I think you could keep the vendors in the warehouse. I don't think it makes much difference. You can use some, if you think you need them, otherwise use it as a big barn for materials. Normally you locate production sites, that belong together close anyhow. And combine this with smaller sheds, that don't hold all too much goods, could work good enough.

One problem, if you decide to store the money in a place like the townhall, is that there's only one for a whole big map. It could be a long way for the traders to walk, to get/get rid of some. But you are right, storing money in barns is a bit weird. And a town hall is often build at the beginning of a game=on a central place. Other alternatives, like stores and markets are no good. I don't like "useless" coins taking space away from other goods here, or that their vendors are busy, carrying them around. Maybe one central storage; town hall is the best alternative.

I can wait for an upgrade, no hurry. Just tell when you think you have something to test. I'm your testpilot!

brads3

From what i have seen the vendors help gather materials faster than laborers. they have their carts and carry more. when my pile locations are full and i have storage buildings that aren't, the game will tell me my storage capacity for logs and stone is full. in which case the laborers leave piles all over where they are clearing land. thats when i like to use a vendor to clear those piles and fill wharehouse barns. i too use barns and markets for storage with a "help yourself" way of running towns. But  am learning the vendors keep goods moving which does help efficiency of everyone else. the only problem with that is if u have a shortage,materials or food will b far away not in a local barn.
   one game long time ago, i had a huge map with a big lake in the middle. my mine and production was in the far northwest corner with a fort town to the southeast of the lake and i was trying to expand a farm town farther south. i placed a market witha vendor to stock it with the mine village. that 1 little old vendor would supply my entire map way outside his circle.he was super busy and super fast. it was about the 1st time i used a vendor so i assumed a vendor was not locked to a circle and therefore on any map w1 vendor would act like this 1 and supply all my markets and the entire map. not sure what caused that vendor to work that way. some glitch to mod order?? a particular mod that since may have been updated??? i havent seen a vendor work as hard since. i sure do miss him.
     Tom i too like the idea of more specific wharehouses.though i dont play THE NORTH i do play with the nordic buildings. the wharehouse u made seems to b low on its capacity. is it by volume count or by weight??? the idea many of piles of goods scattered all over doesnt look as nice for our towns. placing a shed near a production building doesnt work completely. the workers will drop goods into it instead of walking across the road and put them in the food market,etc. you cant control what gets put in and the shed will fill b filled with items you dont want or need there. thats why i like the wharehouse. it complements my industrial barn. CC has a set of specific sheds (wood,stone,iron,materials) but  they are tied to 1 of CC's production chains. u have to already have a larger production town established because u need more than wood,stone,and iron to even build the sheds. as Nilla has said,it is nice to have a small shed to place near a blacksmith or tailor if it would not take food goods.
     dont take it as me complaining. i am grateful for the work many modders have done. i can remember when i started to play the game we had to make piles everywhere. i didnt have the mod for an industrial barn to store stone. hell i didnt have a dairy or mill and bakery even. so many things seem to b missing that is how we find mod sites.:) each mod package brings something different that helps the game work and look better. it wuld b plain looking after a while if all the buildings looked the same. sometimes thou its a whole mod pack for 1 or 2 buildings and several that u dont use. it is a give n take,as everyones styles are not the same.

Tom Sawyer

The capacity of the warehouse is 10,000. About 250 per tile. The same as stockpiles. Volume or weight is not important. Better to think it as "used capacity". In the rsc-files it is called"weight" but actually the weight has no influence on the capacity of a stockpile. Except to a weight that breaks the earth and drops the material into hell.^^

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 06:05:51 AM
... maybe we find another useful job for the barkeeper in the time between the fun events.

Just an idea: The barkeeper or better to say the bartender (?) could make the blueberry liqueur. It's just the mixing of schnapps and berries. Not really the job of a brewer. So he would have a useful job (processing alcohol) and a serious reason to build the new tavern. A side effect is that we don't need to switch the product in the brewery between schnapps and liqueur.

Nilla

Why not, @Tom Sawyer ? But it would still be a small thing. In my last game, I didn't make any blueberry liqueur at all. If you look at one of my schreenshots, where I show my inventory, it's quite obvious why. There were never much of it. 1000 blueberries split all over the place, could never give a good production. Of cause, in another game with more forestry, it could look different.

But I guess you still have to switch between what he does; making a crayfishparty, serving beer and schnapps, making and serving blueberry liqueur.

Tom Sawyer

A small thing with a high profit. And with the skill it could be a really interesting business. ;)

To switch to a party or to serve some booze for fun and then back to make something useful is not a problem. Better than to switch from making schnapps to process it with berries and back to make new stuff (annoying).

I made a test with the warehouse. As you said, it makes sense to use it in two different ways. As a simple storage location for laborers and as a "managed" warehouse with vendors. You can switch the function by enable/disable the work button. I have remove the status icon while the work is disabled for a better look. The only thing is that the laborers also use the flag limits and will not use the entire capacity.

Nilla

I don't understand a thing of your quest, honestly.  :-[ Of cause, I can see the monocultured forest and I guess that the onions and roots have some symbiotic life with the birches, but I really have no idea, how you could get them back in a once disturbed ecosystem. Maybe if you let the foresters rest for a long time or of cause right from the beginning; use the forest for gatherers without any foresters. In any case, it will be useless; unless you let very diligent hunters extinguish the reindeer, they will eat them anyway.  :-\  ::)

Anyhow this brought something good/bad or whatever: I started the game again to look once more into the forest and I found something, that ought to be investigated a bit more. I had a crash. There was a fire. Two homeless families wanted to move upstairs of the inn. As I opened the menu, the first couple; two young people had moved in but the game crashed as soon as the other family (i think there were 4 homeless people) wanted to move in. I have tried to reproduce this by fake demolish houses, no crash so far.

I had the same crash now, the second time I tried to reproduce it. I demolished 3 houses with 3 children each. Again the first couple moved in; it was one of the adult children who used to opportunity to take a spouse, than again a crash. So, there must be something wrong with the apartments. Maybe there are too few lines in the menu?

Edit: Actually, I´m sure, it is too few lines at the menu, only 9. If more than 9 people want to move in, the game crashes. 3 small families work fine, so does one big family but not 3 larger families. With the Nordic houses, worst case would be 3*6 =18 lines. I guess, it would seldom happen, but I would make it that big anyway. Crashes are no fun.

Nilla

I shouldn't have stopped testing. I discovered one more thing, now as I tried to reproduce that bug. Opposite to the vanilla mine, there is no sign of how much ore is left your version. That's the reason, I thought it was "eternal". I just noticed it wasn't. I don't mind, but I think it should have a sign, where it's shown, how much is left. I think it's quite important to know.

Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Nilla on October 17, 2016, 06:34:25 AM
I can see the monocultured forest and I guess that the onions and roots have some symbiotic life with the birches ...

Congratulation! You have solved this quest. You get 100 XP and the new skill...





     Experienced Gatherers (unlocked by Nilla, Password: birch)  ;D ;)

The birches grow on boggy ground, as you may have noticed. But they also spread out and in the birch wood grow onions and roots, additional to berries and mushrooms. In the spruce forest these wild fruits do not grow. As you said, it is an effect of intensive forestry and monoculture. The birches would come back if the foresters did not cut them. It is also possible to influence the forest development with manual logging and to breed a birch forest with richer ground vegetation. But this is not a real option for a growing economy. It was just a small experiment to add some forest dynamics. There are some other small things. Deadwood spawns mushrooms, for example. But you will not really notice this.

-

I had no crash while testing the apartments but as you said there must be something wrong with the UI... And this progress element of the mine, we can add. Probably it's better to know the remaining ores and coal... Thank you for these hints!

Nilla

Alright, I thought all the time, that we had to find a way to get those onions and roots, and OK, somehow it is, if you know that they only grow together with the birches. :)