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Nilla-testing the North6

Started by Nilla, December 10, 2017, 04:44:06 AM

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Turis

Quote from: Hawk on January 24, 2018, 04:03:42 PM
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 24, 2018, 03:09:15 PM
Something seems to be wrong with the coats. I want to go through recipes and trade values

This probably isn't what you're talking about but it seems that there might be 2 different types of wool. One for wool coats and one for Nordic wool coats.
It seems that the tailor will sometimes make Nordic wool coats with sheeps wool and sometimes it won't.
How many wools does it take to make one Nordic wool coat. I had 9 wools in the tailor shop and the tailor kept saying no material available.

As with my past comments, I'm probably missing something.  LOL!
Does it only happen to you?

Hawk

It could probably happen to you if you ran The North for Banished 1.06 in an install of Banished 1.07.  :)
[b][i]Hawk[/i][/b]

[color=#800000][i]Yes, I can multitask. I can listen, ignore and forget all at the same time.[/i][/color]

Turis

Not really since I was waiting for Tom to update it to 1.0.7.

Hawk

Quote from: Turis on January 25, 2018, 07:44:27 AM
Not really since I was waiting for Tom to update it to 1.0.7.

He already has. The latest version is available on his website. release date - Dec. 25, 2017

http://www.banishedventures.com/north/
[b][i]Hawk[/i][/b]

[color=#800000][i]Yes, I can multitask. I can listen, ignore and forget all at the same time.[/i][/color]

Turis


Nilla

Sorry guys, for mixing you up. I guess, I tried to joke with you in some other thread @Turis so I continued here, just from routine.

Anyhow, @Turis, I should have understood earlier, that you were playing an old version of the North as you spoke of Nordic wool coats. In this North 6 there are no different kinds of woolcoats anymore, just "wool coats". They need as much wool as the earlier Nordic wool coats, but aren't warmer than "normal" wool coats.

I now have a few production numbers. I have big problems with my warehouse. They don't want to carry any wool into it, so the big trade profit of one Winter coat doesn't make it too profitable. The annual production has only been between 68 and 48. The production of reindeer coats is even worse, even if there are hides in the store. I find it OK, that the production at the fireplace is low, but I find you should use another "recipe" at the tailor shop @Tom Sawyer . I had 38 and 39 for whole years. I have seen numbers like this at the fireplace with uneducated hunters, too.

Steel tools are very profitable to produce. Of cause they should be. They are the end of a long chain. You need several, partly not very profitable steps before you get to the tools, many people are involved. The production was between 162 and 132. As I said a very high profit when each tool makes 30. For making iron, I had two whole years of production: 332 and 428. It's high (and a big difference). You need several bloomeries for each shop. (By the way; the smithy is wonderful, especially the red one. The stone texture is also fantastic)

Glass and glassware had a production of around 160 for one worker. (You can use more.) The trade profit of each is 10. A much lower profit than tools. Here are also several steps and many people involved, not quite as much as by steel tools, but it's a big difference. My impression now is that the profit of glass/glassware is "right" and steeltools a bit too high. It's just a feeling based on a few years production, so it might be wrong.

I like, how the trade has evolved in the North. I like, that it's no "best trading good". The fact, that merchants pay different, makes it more or less necessary to export a number of goods. If you have to sell your tools to the lower price, the profit is only 5 for each tool and it would probably be better to sell the iron ore unprocessed instead. My settlement isn't that big but I think I can say for sure; it's possible to support a settlement without farming. That's a good thing. Otherwise, the "harsh" climate would be more or less unplayable. You can farm on "harsh" but not without a lot of tedious micromanagement: You have to start the harvest manually. It's OK in a small settlement, but I'm glad, that I don't have to do it here. I've also stopped to send everyone out in the woods to pick berries and firewood. Now everyone works in his/her profession. Gatherers pick the berries. it's not quite as much as before, but I can afford to buy some fruit, so it's OK.

Pictures

I don't know, what I'm doing wrong. :-\  :P My barns are full. I really tried to get rid of meat by orders and barter trade, but the only result is that the amount of beans, cabbage and bread has increased and the amount of meat is the same.

I like the new industrial settlement. For a city builder, i guess it's too untidy. It's deliberate. I want it this way. If it had been possible, I would have put the houses more askew, not only in different directions. No cityplanners at work.

Hawk

Quote from: Nilla on January 26, 2018, 10:01:09 AM
Sorry guys, for mixing you up. I guess, I tried to joke with you in some other thread @Turis so I continued here, just from routine.

Anyhow, @Turis, I should have understood earlier, that you were playing an old version of the North as you spoke of Nordic wool coats. In this North 6 there are no different kinds of woolcoats anymore, just "wool coats". They need as much wool as the earlier Nordic wool coats, but aren't warmer than "normal" wool coats.

This time I believe it was me talking about the Nordic Wool Coats. LOL!
[b][i]Hawk[/i][/b]

[color=#800000][i]Yes, I can multitask. I can listen, ignore and forget all at the same time.[/i][/color]

Turis

She just wants to talk to me. ;D

Tom Sawyer

Wow, what a food graph. Even in harsh climate. Is this boost since year 25 a result of your active trading or what was changing there?

Thank you for your thoughts to production numbers. I want to make a balancing update soon. With parkas it's difficult. I like to have it made as single pieces at the campfire instead of waiting for 4 hides to start crafting. But that influences also tailors and will always slow it down there too. Will think about it. With not storing wool in the warehouse I don't know yet. I see no mistake in the market function.

Nilla

Now @Turis, @Hawk and all others; you must guess/decide for yourself; if A. I'm trying to make a joke, B. have such a respect for you @Hawk, after I heard that you're a computer expert, that i don't dare to address you directly, C. have a crush on you@Turis, that I'm only addressing you or D. am too old and totally confused, making the same mistake twice. ;D

You're right @Tom Sawyer, it's active trading. First I tried to manage with only one small trading dock. The boost started, after I made another two and later also a large trading port. The climate isn't making it (much) more difficult, since I never farmed.

To reindeer parkas. Isn't it possible to have different recipes for the same product in different production sites? Even if you can't change  1 -> 1 to 4 -> 4 (or something like that) can't you set a higher speed at the tailor shop? Or does it also influence the other products of the tailor?

I have made some experiments with the warehouse. I still don't understand, why they don't like to store any wool. First I really tried to push it; used 5 traders (? wasn't it vendors before? can this be a problem?). No change. Then I thought, maybe it can only store a certain amount of textiles and all furs block the wool. So I transported all furs into the trading port. After that I actually saw a small amount of wool in the store, but just once for a short time. The traders seem more interested in carrying a couple of cow hides or a few furs, than a bunch of wool. ??? Is it alphabetic? 2 cow hides, 4 furs, 10 leather, 3 reindeer hides get there from all over the map, before 100 wool?

Anyway, I am about to solve the problem in the "old fashioned" way. I've built a tailor in the sheep area and have started to establish sheep in the warehouse area: Traditional Banished location of production! I also plan to build a standard market somewhere, to see how it works with wool.

I have one request/question/thought to you @Tom Sawyer : I have cows and need to process the cow hides to leather. The only place, that I've found, where this could be done is the farmers workplace. In the "old part" of the village, this is no problem. But since the traders from the warehouse seem to fancy cow hides, they land up in the "new part" of the village, so a part of this reorganizing, would mean, to process the cow hides here. But the workshop doesn't really fit the red houses and it doesn't look good as stand alone building. A small red, stand alone shed would be great.

I will continue to make notes about the production and also tell, how it works with the trade, as the settlement grows bigger. Maybe it can be helpful to you, if you want to rebalance the numbers.

First picture

I got really scared, as the fire started in the middle of my industrial area, but fortunately the empty space in-between was big enough, only this one house caught fire. :)

I've marked the not good looking workplace on both pictures.

Second picture

This was a nice surprise; the sand diggers found some gold. I'm not sure about the sand production. You can only use 3 miners to dig sand. If I use two glassworkers to produce glass, it's enough sand. But you can use up to 4 glassworkers. I don't think 3 miners can produce enough sand for that. It can work only if you produce glassware in-between. Otherwise you would need two sand pits for each glasswork. The opposit would be better.

You can see, that the educational rate has improved to 78%. The game runs good without new nomads. I don't really notice the "real time" effect in other ways than that there are a lot of children and students. It's not slow. I build new houses and workplaces continuously, without any boring delays.

Turis

I knew it was a mistake, but, can I be blamed for daydreaming(taking advantage of it for my own self-gratification)? I wasn't serious anyway. Sometimes, I wish someone would kick my butt.

Hawk

Quote from: Nilla on January 27, 2018, 08:49:08 AM
Now @Turis, @Hawk and all others; you must guess/decide for yourself; if A. I'm trying to make a joke, B. have such a respect for you @Hawk, after I heard that you're a computer expert, that i don't dare to address you directly, C. have a crush on you@Turis, that I'm only addressing you or D. am too old and totally confused, making the same mistake twice. ;D

I'm opting for D.  ;D That would be my excuse anyway.  LOL!
[b][i]Hawk[/i][/b]

[color=#800000][i]Yes, I can multitask. I can listen, ignore and forget all at the same time.[/i][/color]

Turis

Quote from: Hawk on January 27, 2018, 12:07:58 PM
Quote from: Nilla on January 27, 2018, 08:49:08 AM
Now @Turis, @Hawk and all others; you must guess/decide for yourself; if A. I'm trying to make a joke, B. have such a respect for you @Hawk, after I heard that you're a computer expert, that i don't dare to address you directly, C. have a crush on you@Turis, that I'm only addressing you or D. am too old and totally confused, making the same mistake twice. ;D

I'm opting for D.  ;D That would be my excuse anyway.  LOL!
Don't say she's old!

Nilla

Maybe these answers from you guys (no names this time  ??? ) say more about you, than about me. ;)

I played more yesterday, but there's not much new. I use to make a lot of screenshots, when I play. I usually only show you a few of them. It may be funny things, nice things, things I have special thoughts about, bugs, questions and so on. One thing I like about playing and writing these blogs, is to go back and look at the screenshots, I made the day before. This morning it didn't take long. Yesterday I only made one screenshot. It's what I think a bug (or maybe some thought from @Tom Sawyer, that I don't understand.

So, I started the game now and made another picture. It's my latest part of the village. As I said, I made a vanilla market and also a second large trading port. I don't think, that I need 2+3 trading ports, I might demolish one or two of the small docks. We'll see if the many merchant are too annoying. Or maybe I will use the small ports just to buy ordered food and sell goods for coins in the big ones. There are some possibilities. One thing for sure; I will not build any more small docks. You can't buy much/store much to sell, before it's full. But this small dock is perfect at the beginning. And also later in a game, where you don't have to buy so much food as I need here: just to sell some surplus and buy seeds, animals, salt and sugar.

I cut in some graphs. Everything looks nice. I don't want more food, so I don't buy all I can get anymore. I will try to keep this level for some time.

To the possible bug: why doesn´t this merchant take silver as payment?

Tom Sawyer

Yep that's a bug. Merchants have to take silver. It's fixed for next update. Thank you for finding!

With recipes it's not that easy. If reindeer parkas have an output of 1 to work nicely at the campfire then they are also made in single pieces in a tailor shop. The work time is the same over all recipes in one building. So a tailor produces 3-4 coats or 1 parka in one step and making him faster would imbalance coats. Actually the clean way is to make coats only by tailors and parkas only by hunters at the fire or to make parkas with standard output.

With honey production you have mentioned it's a similar problem. The bee yard cannot produce honey using sugar or less honey without winter feeding. At least not by options in the same building. I can solve it only by removing sugar from the old style bee yard and making a modern bee house using sugar for higher (technically faster) production.