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The 100-challenge

Started by Nilla, March 20, 2015, 08:11:50 AM

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Nilla

I forget to tell you the answer to my quiz.

You are all so wrong!

As i started the game with only 2 children (boy and girl 5 and 8 ), I didn't have 100 people until Autumn 9! It took more than 2 years longer, even if the "coupling" was better.

You know, I am a bit "geeky". I made some kind of population simulation as I played my town Doolin, my first fast game. It's nothing advanced, just a simple Excel calculation. If I put the starting conditions of these two games into that simulation. It tells us this; The number of children at the beginning, is more important than the perfect coupling, short term. Long term the age of the mother, as she gets her first child is very important, too.

You can look at the file if you want to. The calculation is a little bit "conservative", you could be a little bit faster in real, but it is pretty good, even long term. I've checked it at that Doolin game.

I'll show you one picture from the game. This one is "funnier" than the end. Why on earth do the young uneducated 10 and 11 years old prefere professions like blacksmiths and woodcutter, where they really do a lot of harm? There are educated laborers from the original generation living closer. In this game it doesn't matter much, but I have seen it before in other, long term games without schools, where it matters a lot.

sorry, couldn´t attach the Excel-file, so it´s a pdf.


irrelevant

@Nilla  well, that's discouraging; I was hoping that in-game decisions would outweigh just trying seed after seed to get the most children at the start! ;D

irrelevant

Quote from: Nilla on March 23, 2015, 03:23:22 AM
If the average is 3 harts, there are individuals with only 1 and 2 harts (children are born with 5). I have noticed; when the people visit the herbalist, they get ½ hart more, but they don't visit the herbalist all the time so I suppose it takes more than 16-3=13 years to gain the full stars, even with a perfect location of markets and herbalists. Maybe the people that lived at the real nasty times have to die first.
I don't think you can make up with just herbs for the health you lose by not having a balanced diet. I've noticed that without grain I'm usually down to four hearts by the time I get my herbalist up.

I suspect that working in the winter has a health cost as well. If true, that would mean that gatherers, hunters, foresters, fishers, and laborers harvesting resources in the winter would all lose some amount of health even with herbs. Possibly warm coats mitigate this. But a fully-balanced diet seems to be pretty much a requirement for 5 hearts, whatever else you do.

irrelevant

#48
Autumn 16 - Hard Core

Hard start
No mods
Full education
Full hearts
Full stars
Full clothed
No lack of anything essential (food, firewood, clothes, tools)

@Nilla look, only five barns!  ;D ;)

This is the map I used for Sink Mill, 8291.

Just for fun, two screen grabs from Sink Mill in the early years for comparison.


chillzz

Quote from: irrelevant on March 23, 2015, 05:46:30 AM
Quote from: Nilla on March 23, 2015, 03:23:22 AM
If the average is 3 harts, there are individuals with only 1 and 2 harts (children are born with 5). I have noticed; when the people visit the herbalist, they get ½ hart more, but they don't visit the herbalist all the time so I suppose it takes more than 16-3=13 years to gain the full stars, even with a perfect location of markets and herbalists. Maybe the people that lived at the real nasty times have to die first.
I don't think you can make up with just herbs for the health you lose by not having a balanced diet. I've noticed that without grain I'm usually down to four hearts by the time I get my herbalist up.

I suspect that working in the winter has a health cost as well. If true, that would mean that gatherers, hunters, foresters, fishers, and laborers harvesting resources in the winter would all lose some amount of health even with herbs. Possibly warm coats mitigate this. But a fully-balanced diet seems to be pretty much a requirement for 5 hearts, whatever else you do.

I think i can deal with that problem if the first building after the school would be the herbalist.
They are slow, but they can eat herbs as food source too.   maybe they'll have a good balanced diet on that with the gatherers and hunters followed suit.
Who knows.. will try soon ;) and report back (maybe even with harsh instead of fair weather)

@irrelevant nice !
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chillzz

Quote from: Nilla on March 23, 2015, 03:23:22 AM
Very nice try @chillzz !

I'm sure the missing ½ hart comes from the extra hard conditions you put upon yourself. It's hard to get the 5 stars with no grain, especially if they go down so much at the start.

If the average is 3 harts, there are individuals with only 1 and 2 harts (children are born with 5). I have noticed; when the people visit the herbalist, they get ½ hart more, but they don't visit the herbalist all the time so I suppose it takes more than 16-3=13 years to gain the full stars, even with a perfect location of markets and herbalists. Maybe the people that lived at the real nasty times have to die first.
Thanx!
If the oldies would die off sooner, it might help to increase it faster i guess.  i know it's possible to have 5 heart health on that diet..  who knows.. maybe just a few months more..  i'll look into it when loading the save game and play a few months/seasons longer.
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Nilla

Oh, guys you build so nice looking settlements. Mine might be more efficient, but it all looks like chaos.

It's interesting to see @irrelevant, you were not much slower at Sink Mill. How many children did you have from the start?

QuoteThey are slow, but they can eat herbs as food source too.

@chillzz, I don't think they can. You might prove me wrong, but as far as I know, people only eat what they have in their homes. I have never seen any herbs in peoples homes. For certain they consume a lot more herbs, if you are short on food. If there is only little food, people grab what they can and even if you have all kinds of food, many individuals only get one or two types, get sick and need herbs. But I'm pretty sure herbs can not replace food.

Now I'll show you my hard core game.

100 full educated, happy, healthy, clothed, well fed and warm people at late summer 14.

I played this on a small mountain map (nr 7, harsh climate, disasters on, but no disaster happened so far). So I can continue this game for that "mountain king" challenge if I want to. I don't think, I had any disadvantage from this choice.

What were my strategy for building this fast?

First; a good map-choice; 8 children, three of them 8 years old. Just time to build the school.

Second; a house ready as soon as a girl gets out of school. With educated, the male/female balance is not so important, as long as it isn't extreme, and it wasn't in this game. The young adult girls could grab a student, if there  were no grown up males.

Third; every house is located close to the school, so that the time spent walking between home and school is short. Most children was educated at 16, some at 17, no one was older. The houses you see far away (at the fishing dock in the north, south of the market place and at the orchards south) are built the last few years. OK, there had to be some productivity loss, because the workers had to walk a longer distance between workplace and home, but you have to pay somewhere, and this game was supposed to be fast to 100.

And finally one small thing ; I built school, gatherer and 2 houses at the start. These Banished people were very social, so they let the both the families with three children take these first houses. I had to be cruel and fake demolish, until the childless couple and the family with two children took these homes. The 5-person families had to wait until several other buildings were built, there couldn't be any children in these families, until the eldest was graduated and moved out, anyway.

Is it possible to build faster?

Yes, there are maps with more children from the start, I tried one with 10, but the first child was grown up so fast, that there were no chance to get the school ready in time. He might have died of old age, before the settlement reached 100 people but I wouldn't take the risk, he would probably lived to his 90.

Sometimes if the males were older, the young man who took the house I just built, didn't fancy the oldest, just grown up girl. Instead he choose a young student. Sometimes I had to build several houses and it took some time. I thought a bit about using a boarding house to establish couples, and maybe, I would have built one, if it would have been more reliable. But, no, all this fake demolishing, too tiresome for me.

Maybe I could have built the houses even tighter to the school. I didn't want to steal too much space from the forest, so one side of the school is quite empty. Maybe it is possible to have every student graduated with 16.



irrelevant

@Nilla Sink Mill had only 5 children at the start (medium). By the time of those screenshots I had accepted a batch or two of nomads.

Great hardcore town!

Demonocracy

I hope we have more time.  I'll not get a chance until at least next weekend.  : (

irrelevant

#54
@Demonocracy if it was up to me, I'd say no problem. This challenge seems to be like the Nomad one, it could just be left open for anyone to beat anytime. Course that's up to @Nilla, it's her baby.

B - the original

Just one limit; No mods.

Winter 7 - just can't quite beat @Nilla! Must be that 13th child, I started with only 12. ;D

505 error, I'll post pics tomorrow when the server wakes back up.  >:(

kee

A@Nilla told you it could be done a lot faster than I did.
For the 'fun' of it I'm starting an experimrnt now with my old challenge in mind, to see how fast I can reach 100 witg only boarding houses, same seed as my entry in this competition.
Kim Erik

Nilla

I agree with @irrelevant; No panic to finish the challenge. Let's keep it open as long as people like to try.

If you find it OK, we wait a week a two (so that you can finish your attempt @Demonocracy). Than I will put the current leaders of each category in the first entry, together with the conditions. Than it's easy for everyone to see and make a(nother) try.



chillzz

#57
@Nilla yep, you are right concerning the herbs. They never carry them in their homes.. so not actually a food source.  I wonder where i have read it.

However, i retried with the same parameters (only harsh instead of fair) build school as first, herbalist as second. even without enough food and clothing (no hunters/gathers/fishers yet) due to the large amount of herbs the health never dropped below 4 hearts.

Due to the sausage-festapalooza the procreation took a lot longer, about 1 female per 4 male  :(
female teacher died of childbirth, so most children of 1st gen dumb.  autumn 16 full health, full happiness a lot of food, clothing, firewood, tools and other resources.. but still on only 78 citizens.
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kee

#58
Doing all the matchmaking by myself did take a bit longer. Ended up at 19 years for this challenge with only boarding houses, but it can be done about three to four years faster at least. When I look on the pop. graph I had a long period with no growth early on- had trouble expanding food production and getting them coupled when focusing on getting them clothed and tooled up. The town I constructed looked better this time though, If my sense of aesthhetics can be trusted.
Kim Erik

Brugle

I'm slowly doing C - the hard core.  I tried lots of seeds for small valleys at hard, choosing 14942124 which has 11 children, with mild climate and disasters off.  [I found 3 other seeds which have 11 children, 346364314, 532166655 (with an old 9), and 543700127.  I also found 2 seeds which have 12 children, 880379958 (with the oldest child only 6) and 908890497 (with an old 9).]

I changed the birth sex frequently, getting plenty of daughters.  (At the end of year 5, there were 26 females and 19 males.)  I also eliminated a childbirth death.  Here are screenshots with 25 and 50 people: