World of Banished

Sightseeing => Village Blogs => Topic started by: Nilla on September 10, 2019, 08:31:22 AM

Title: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 10, 2019, 08:31:22 AM
Now it´s finally time to go and try Red´s "Rise of the Pharao". All screenshots I´ve seen look really beautiful.

I must report that my 3 first "towns" (or what I may call them, not much was actually built) failed.  :(

The reason for my failure was that the settings happened to be set on "Jack and Jill" when I started the game and I thought; Why not, Red use to make fair mods, it will work and it´s a good way to learn all production chains; if you really have nothing to start with.

But I don´t think "Jack and Jill" is possible without additional mods. And you know me; Rise of the Pharao pure it is.

It´s the weird Banni behaviour not to eat without a barn that killed us. The smallest Egyptian barn (a very beautiful creation) cost mud to build and at least I haven´t found another way to get it than to build a mud pit. I had my doubts that it would be possible to build it in time and produce enough building material before they would starve but at least I´ll give it a try. I thought I found a nice spot at the river without any egg nests, cotton bushes or other barn-stuff, that wouldn´t have been cleared. But it looks like that reed is stored in barns, too. My Egyptian Bannis; the man in his sexy shorts and the woman in her elegant white dress stopped working.

I didn´t find a single spot on that map where I could have built it, barn-stuff everywhere and not on the next map either. A third try before I give up and indeed; I found a spot to build it. But as I suspected; they starved to death before they could build the barn.

Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 10, 2019, 01:52:50 PM
yeah in early beta not everything is tuned ^^ i guess to need mud for the barn is a problem.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 11, 2019, 02:36:45 AM
The mud for the barn is only a problem if you chose to play Jack and Jill without any additional mods. But long term; if you want to keep that start option @RedKetchup, there might be a good idea to have a small cheap shed, barrel or something else, where they can store the very first barn-stuff.

Anyway, I´m the stubborn kind of person. I wanted Jack and Jill so I decided to add a few mods. I choose Forest outpost and Tiny from @kid1293. Why these? When I´ve looked at other players tests of this mod, the vanilla buildings; forester, gatherer, hunter...... look a bit odd in these surroundings (I´m sure you have plans for those, too Red but one thing after the other). These buildings from Kid are nice and small and doesn´t disturb the overall impression.

I´ll tell a bit to the pictures.

First picture
That small barn isn´t very cheap; 32 logs but they managed to build it in time. It doesn´t look all too odd in the surroundings. They don´t need much firewood only a small amount seem to be needed for cooking and cold nights. So we don´t need a chopper yet; there´s enough deadwood to be found. In fact; I´m in year 21 with 21 inhabitants (Jack and Jill takes time) and we still get along very well with deadwood.

First I was a bit confused, not finding the menu button to collect deadwood, but that "clear wild things" is very convenient to use; clear firewood, textile plants, and reed; things you need at the beginning. (I sell the reed now but will probably need it later)

Second picture
Blacksmith and tailor do look odd in the surroundings. I hope that they are your next projects. But at least they work (except that one wrong recipe at the blacksmith menu, mentioned in @MarkAnthony´s thread).

Since I had the Forest outpost loaded I decided to build the small school from it. Not because it´s cheap and I couldn´t afford the vanilla school, just because it looks better in these surroundings than a North American style of school.

I also build the small forester from the Forest outpost but soon realized that he plants oaks, firs and birches. (You can see one small oak if you look carefully) Not so suitable in the Nile Delta. First, I thought it was the mod from Kid but when I looked at the pictures from @irrelevant´s testing, there were these trees at the vanilla forester, too. I´ve decided to cut the odd tress and close the forester and so long I get along with cutting a few trees here and there. I´ve also bought some logs. We need only a little firewood (and when we have more houses and need more, I guess we can use thatch and reed), and most houses are mainly built with mud and mud bricks, so we need very little logs.

Third picture
It´s not the merchant arriving; that would have been too good. The ship is just a decoration and was free to build, so I couldn´t stop myself from building it; beautiful.

I think the guys who tested beta1 mentioned that there are empty slots at the trade menu, so I guess you already know, @RedKetchup. But I´ll tell it all the same. By the way; the first merchant brought bison. Don´t think they would fit very well in an Egypt pasture. I might buy some goat later, maybe they also had some cows, chicken and sheep but certainly no bison.

I´ve also seen no merchant who brings ores. Is this intentional, @RedKetchup?

Fourth picture
I didn´t build the big market and the boarding house because I need them, just because I want them. They are really impressive and beautiful. Very nicely done!

There are some oddities in wild food collecting. This may be intentional or not but some types of food aren´t marked by the "clear food menu button"; you get a lot of different new kind of wild food like lettuce, garlic, lentils (are they counted as a grain?), leek, eggs but no honey and juniper berries and maybe something else that you get when you use "clear all". The small gatherer from Kid collects juniper berries, mushrooms, roots and onions, nothing else. I haven´t tested the big vanilla gatherer, yet, so I don´t know what it collects. Maybe I will hide one somewhere in the deep forest later.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: irrelevant on September 11, 2019, 04:25:29 AM
Quote from: Nilla on September 11, 2019, 02:36:45 AM

Third picture
I´ve also seen no merchant who brings ores. Is this intentional, @RedKetchup?
In Beta 1 the resource merchant brought ore when I ordered some, but he was very stingy with it. The first time I ordered iron tin ore he brought one ore, next time he brought three. The other items he brought were the regular quantities, something is odd with buying ore. I ended up buying refined metal.

Quote
Fourth picture
I didn´t build the big market and the boarding house because I need them, just because I want them. They are really impressive and beautiful. Very nicely done!

There are some oddities in wild food collecting. This may be intentional or not but some types of food aren´t marked by the "clear food menu button"; you get a lot of different new kind of wild food like lettuce, garlic, lentils (are they counted as a grain?), leek, eggs but no honey and juniper berries and maybe something else that you get when you use "clear all". The small gatherer from Kid collects juniper berries, mushrooms, roots and onions, nothing else. I haven´t tested the big vanilla gatherer, yet, so I don´t know what it collects. Maybe I will hide one somewhere in the deep forest later.
Wow! Yes, the market is spectacular. Nicely done @RedKetchup
In Beta 1 the included gatherer did collect all food items including berries and honey. I still found myself using the "clear all" button to get extra honey and berries outside the circle (honey is grain here, I don't think any other wild food is, and berries are the only fruit).
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: brads3 on September 11, 2019, 07:58:04 AM
which forest outpost mod did you add? there is a normal version and a nat div version. the nat div version allows the houses to use thatch without it bein bundled.the ND version also uses thatch as a building aterial and changes that for some of the vanilla buidings and pastures.

did you consider adding the Moroccan mod. that may have gave you the school and shops you want.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 12, 2019, 02:15:48 AM
Maybe @brads3 the Maroocian buildings would be nice to add, I didn´t really think about them, thanks for reminding. And I use the old "standard" Forest Outpost, same as I´m using the "old standard" Tiny mod. That´s enough for this game. I have no intention to use a lot of buildings from them, only those that look better than vanilla in these surroundings, so a little easier building material here and some more options there isn´t important, but maybe for a larger game, the other versions would have been better.

And yes @irrelevant, I think it´s the small trading port from Kid´s tiny that doesn´t have the ore. I´ve now tried to hide the large vanilla port in as much forest as possible and there you can order ore. No merchant has brought any yet, so I can say nothing about the amount.

I´ve also hidden a vanilla gatherer in the forest and it does collect everything. Only one problem; the forest grows very dense. There´s no forester planting, it´s pure natural growth. It´s good because you don´t need to look at the buildings that don´t fit in the surroundings ;), but it´s also bad; there´s not much room for wild food between all tress and (thatch?). After I´ve built a small forester that only cuts, the output from the gatherer has improved. Only; I  get another "problem". These Egyptian Bannis don´t need many logs, they don´t need much firewood, so what am I supposed to do with the logs and thatch the forester gets out from the forest?

I´m also trying to "trick the climate". For some reason, I didn´t really pay attention, I play a harsh desert climate on a lower Nile Delta map. :P ::) It gets very hot in summer and normal farming makes no sense. But crops grow quite well in winter and a bit in spring and autumn, so when you let farmers plant as usual, then close the field and wait until winter to harvest, it works. I wouldn´t want to do this at a larger settlement but at the moment it´s funny.

First picture
Output from the gatherer's hut; 3 gatherers worked in the dense forest last year. Not much food was found.

You can also see, it´s late autumn. The field and orchard are yet to be harvested. As the merchant brought pepper, I thought; pepper, good crop for a hot climate but then I started to think; I´m not sure but isn´t pepper a crop from oversea? I don´t think the old Egyptians would have had any. Anyhow, now it´s there and if Heyerdahl could sail with his Ra from Egypt to the Caribbean the Egyptian could also have returned with pepper seeds and if the current and wind didn´t allow that trip back; there´s always the Stargate.

There´s also another for me unusual thing to see, an uncut orchard where the trees have started to die. Normally I cut orchards to make use of the logs as soon as the first tree dies, but here I have more logs than I can use.

Second picture

This magnificent market and the monuments are really "magnets" for the Bannis, always a lot of people hanging around.

Third picture
Here´s the production of the gatherers now. The forester has worked (only cutting) more or less without brake for 8 years (maybe the log limit was reached in smaller periods but I tried to use as much of it as possible) and the output of food has increased continuously. The forest is still dense but at least we can see a bit of the roof from the gatherer´s hut. You can see a small difference to the untouched forest.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: angainor88 on September 12, 2019, 06:07:23 AM
The Moroccan buildings would probably go with the setting somewhat, but the build values are based on the vanilla game, and some of them use iron. I'm not sure how much that is affected by the Rise of the Pharoah mod though.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: brads3 on September 12, 2019, 06:43:26 AM
if iron isn't available, it could be added very easily.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 12, 2019, 07:48:06 AM
I´m not so fond of adding something that wasn´t meant to be there, like iron. If Red has decided his Egyptian scenario take place in the bronze age, I´m not keen on adding iron, maybe trade for it; from some foreign culture that has developed iron production but not producing myself. I find that´s part of the fun with different kind of major mods. Maybe I will try and see, what´s possible later.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: irrelevant on September 12, 2019, 08:41:16 AM
Quote from: Nilla on September 12, 2019, 02:15:48 AM
I´m also trying to "trick the climate". For some reason, I didn´t really pay attention, I play a harsh desert climate on a lower Nile Delta map. :P ::) It gets very hot in summer and normal farming makes no sense. But crops grow quite well in winter and a bit in spring and autumn, so when you let farmers plant as usual, then close the field and wait until winter to harvest, it works. I wouldn´t want to do this at a larger settlement but at the moment it´s funny.
I was doing this as well.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 12, 2019, 02:59:34 PM
well, your forester forests are .... so ... big and compact !
not sure what i can do for that :P thx for the pictures... thats very helpful
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: angainor88 on September 12, 2019, 05:06:13 PM
I did a double check on the construction materials. None of the houses use iron, but some of the buildings in the miscellaneous set do (the mosque, university, and a couple others).
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 12, 2019, 08:41:31 PM
Quote from: angainor88 on September 12, 2019, 05:06:13 PM
I did a double check on the construction materials. None of the houses use iron, but some of the buildings in the miscellaneous set do (the mosque, university, and a couple others).

yup you cannot ask people not using other mods, and is those mods need iron.... bah you need iron LOL
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: MarkAnthony on September 12, 2019, 08:56:28 PM
With just your Rise of the Pharaoh mod, the Vanilla Quarry still requires Iron to build. I'm pretty sure it's only because you haven't gotten that far yet in replacing everything so it was no big deal. The Vanilla Mine didn't help any because you get Iron Ore from the Mine but no way to turn it into Iron. The end result being the Vanilla Mine and Vanilla Quarry are useless for now, unless you want Coal from the Mine but I don't recall if Rise of the Pharaoh uses Coal yet.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 13, 2019, 12:57:53 AM
Quote from: RedKetchup on September 12, 2019, 02:59:34 PM
well, your forester forests are .... so ... big and compact !
not sure what i can do for that :P thx for the pictures... thats very helpful
I think it´s possible to change how fast trees grow and how fast they spread. I think as well @Tom Sawyer as @Discrepancy have changed this in their mods. It would make sense if trees were spare, grew and spread slow and logs harder to get in such an environment. It could add a "twist" to the mod; few trees on the map, logs expensive to buy. I would like that. But of course; it would be harder to combine with other mods where you would need a lot of logs for construction. 

Quote from: RedKetchup on September 12, 2019, 08:41:31 PM
yup you cannot ask people not using other mods, and is those mods need iron.... bah you need iron LOL

If this was my mod, and I´ve decided that this is the Bronze Age; iron is unknown, I would have taken away all production possibilities for iron but kept it as a trading good. If you want other mods that need iron, trade for it. It comes from some foreign culture, that has discovered how to produce iron. Sounds logical to me and not too difficult. That´s the same thing as if you want to use some of DS newer mods with iron fittings as a building material that only he has; you can always buy some and use his houses even if the production sites are missing.

Quote from: MarkAnthony on September 12, 2019, 08:56:28 PM
With just your Rise of the Pharaoh mod, the Vanilla Quarry still requires Iron to build. I'm pretty sure it's only because you haven't gotten that far yet in replacing everything so it was no big deal. The Vanilla Mine didn't help any because you get Iron Ore from the Mine but no way to turn it into Iron. The end result being the Vanilla Mine and Vanilla Quarry are useless for now, unless you want Coal from the Mine but I don't recall if Rise of the Pharaoh uses Coal yet.

Now I know that you had issues with your blacksmith @MarkAnthony, but mine can make iron from iron ore (at least there is such an option at the menu, I haven´t tested if it works).

Yesterday I looked a bit more at different maps and settings and I must say; this is a beautiful mod! It has great potential. I´m glad that you have shared your work with us @RedKetchup even if it´s far from finished. I´m looking forward to each new update. :)
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: brads3 on September 13, 2019, 09:23:42 AM
NILLA,i feel partly responsable for your tree issues. i mentioned to RED about making changes to trees for the RKEC mod. now the trees dont die as often but they overgrow maps quickly. in the process of fixing 1 thing,something got bumped and others got effected.i have gardeners in my villages who  work to control the regrowth.

    i mentioned the African mod sets because @taniu had asked about them. i agree with you on testing a mod without adding others. that is needed to find problems and glitches. plus i appreciate the work you do to help with production balances.

      if iron was needed, it can be added very easily.there are numerous mods that will do that.we have been using iron ore and smelting it to iron a long time. but there are still mine mods that work to give iron as an output.

      from my experience with CC, RED coud change the trees that the vanilla forester plants to the African style trees. that will not override any modded foresters. so if you use a mini forester or otheryou wil get vanilla trees or those from the mod that you add. the only modder who might be able to do otherwise is TOM. he has his own lockout system of mod coding.

      i'm sure RED has many ideas of what he wants to try with this mod. it is a huge project. i hope it inspires @angainor88  to make more mods. he has his own style. it is always neat to see what different modders come up with for new toys.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 13, 2019, 11:06:32 AM
Quote from: brads3 on September 13, 2019, 09:23:42 AM
      i'm sure RED has many ideas of what he wants to try with this mod. it is a huge project. i hope it inspires @angainor88  to make more mods. he has his own style. it is always neat to see what different modders come up with for new toys.

i agree that @angainor88 's work is so valuable because that, it is unique.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 14, 2019, 01:41:17 AM
I wouldn´t say there´s a tree issue. Just a bit too dense forest for my taste; also without any forester working around. And if you look at @irrelevant´s testing; the vanilla forester plants the right trees, so it´s already changed. I was only trying a mod that wasn´t adapted to the surroundings. That´s no big deal because I haven't needed a forester to plant.

In any case, I decided to start a new game in an Upper Nile Valley. It looks very nice but it´s also difficult to build something that looks realistic at such a ground. Anyway; I gave it a try and so far I´m pleased with the result.

I´ve decided to use @angainor88´s Maroccin buildings and also Kid´s new Mexican mod as well. Not everything will fit the Egyptian theme but some of it does.

First picture
Overview. You can see a few not Egyptian buildings here and there and I´ve tried to hide the necessary vanilla buildings as good as possible in the dense forest.

Second picture
A close up on my initial village and the irrigation system. It wouldn´t have been possible to grow anything in these surroundings without efficient irrigation. I think the Egyptians had a more sophisticated technic but the Mexican irrigation from Kid looks really nice; you can even see a few donkeys here and their carrying water to refill the barrels. Can you believe it? Me, decorating!  ;D

No one can claim this combination of mods being hard to play in a surviving aspect; look at all the labourers. As we all know, farming is very high productive and unless you forget to micromanage the farmer, you´ll rarely lose anything, the gatherers collect more than 1000 food each, the fisher almost the same. I even had to close that water barres from @kid1293, it produced 990 water last year. There´s also more export goods than there are goods to buy.  We can concentrate on development.

Third picture

The start of a new town centre. Maybe I will build some nomad attractor. 

Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: brads3 on September 14, 2019, 04:59:47 AM
NILLA mixing mods?  has the world gone crazy?
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 14, 2019, 07:15:28 AM
not sure if the forest are more dense.... the thing is, one model has its leaves made like an umbrella. and the umbrella cover all the tile and maybe a bit more... i always found the trees in banished are way too small to compare houses and compare the citizens...

but i still need to check how they grp up. maybe there is not enough noise.. or noiseCutOff


// placement
float _noisePersistance = 1.0;
float _noiseOctaves = 5.0;
float _noiseScale = 38.0;
float _noiseCutoff = 0.64; // plus chiffre proche 0.99 moins il y en a sur la map
float _spawnChance = 0.05;

bool _groupModels = true;
float _groupPersistance = 1.0;
float _groupOctaves = 1.0;
float _groupScale = 5.0;
float _groupCutOff = 0.5;
int _groupRandom = 5;
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: irrelevant on September 14, 2019, 07:35:19 AM
Quote from: Nilla on September 14, 2019, 01:41:17 AM
I wouldn´t say there´s a tree issue. Just a bit too dense forest for my taste; also without any forester working around. And if you look at @irrelevant´s testing; the vanilla forester plants the right trees, so it´s already changed.

And I don't understand how this is. We both are using the same Beta 2....aren't we?
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 14, 2019, 09:29:47 AM
Yes, we are but I used the small forester from Kid´s Forest Outpost and that makes the difference. I have seen the same with other main mods that change the kind of trees. A "foreign" forester may stick to the trees he´s used to, no matter what the main mod says.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: Nilla on September 15, 2019, 04:22:30 AM
You may be right @RedKetchup, these trees that look like fig trees (without fruit, however) are really like umbrellas. In areas where there are mainly other trees, it doesn´t look as dense. However I would find it nice and realistic if trees grew slower and spread less fast in a surrounding like this, it wouldn´t make all too much trouble either since everything needs fewer logs than usual.

I did mention, that I find it pretty easy to play with this combination of mods. It wasn´t a complain, not every mod need to bring a struggle of survival. But you know me, I like it that way, and I did find a way to make also this game to a struggle. It hasn´t much to do with testing the RotP mod, but it made a lot of fun.

First picture
Here they are; trouble on their way. ;)

Second picture
I ordered 50% nomads, not 80% of my population. All my 6 impressive boardinghouses weren't enough to give all these people shelter.

Third picture

I wasn't sure if this would work.

Fourth picture
But it did work; a period with very little food, another with very little tools but many hands cleared enough ground to make new fields. The merchant brought the ordered bronze tools and the settlement survived.

Fifth picture
There was (and is) a lack of building materials; periods with no stones and/or too few mud bricks and mud, so we are still behind in building houses. And there were no stones left to finish the ground of the "ceremonial area". The statues are impressive; so far, the limestone that you need for them couldn´t be used for anything else, so the statues stand, the ground, however, need some "finishing".

I have noticed @RedKetchup that if you are using the "clear almost all" button; you clear all ores and all normal stones but no limestone. I don´t know if this is intentional but I would find it good if also limestone would be included here. You can´t always see it when the forest has grown thick and is easy to forget the limestone if you use that button to clear all valuable "stuff" from an area.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: irrelevant on September 15, 2019, 06:54:19 AM
Quote from: Nilla on September 15, 2019, 04:22:30 AM
I have noticed @RedKetchup that if you are using the "clear almost all" button; you clear all ores and all normal stones but no limestone. I don´t know if this is intentional but I would find it good if also limestone would be included here. You can´t always see it when the forest has grown thick and is easy to forget the limestone if you use that button to clear all valuable "stuff" from an area.
The "collect stone" button will find the limestone, after you use "clear almost all", limestone should be the only thing left that this button will highlight.
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: RedKetchup on September 15, 2019, 03:44:15 PM
it is already started to give an egyptiam feel :)
Title: Re: Nilla-going south to Egypt
Post by: angainor88 on September 16, 2019, 06:20:05 AM
It looks so good!