World of Banished

Sightseeing => Village Blogs => Topic started by: Nilla on April 02, 2018, 03:29:56 AM

Title: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 02, 2018, 03:29:56 AM
That other thread was long, so I decided to start a new.

This time I might have "taken the mouth fuller than I can chew". I thought about playing without schools or without trade and was stupid/bald/overconfident (take what you want) to choose both. I've forgotthen how hard this is. I've done it before in a vanilla game, as I made all achievements on one map, even without farming. But in that game, I made it much wiser; I let the settlement grow very slow. Here it's much faster and I guess it will "break" my neck. I've been thinking of start it over, at least from an early save, but it's bin a while, since I had to reestablish a population that I killed, and that's fun, too.

I'll show you some pictures with the initial progress. WARNING! Not recommended to copy, if you play without schools and trade. (unless you like problems)

First picture

I've cut in the settings in the low right corner. Only RKEd, no other mod.

1 year gone. A few children were born and the settlement have 21 inhabitants. Everyone has a home, except the young Jarvid. He's insulted, while I kicked him out of the second house I I've built. He wanted to stay there alone, 10 years old. I wanted a whole family instead. But he'll calm down. The Bannis were very diligent building. There's a lack of........ everything.  :P :-\

Second picture

3 years gone; 30 inhabitants. The situation on supply and material has improved. Maybe this is the only screenshot, where's there's no lack of anything.  ;D

Third picture

4 years gone; 40 inhabitants. The picture shows the whole settlement. I lied a bit, when I said; no trade. I've built one small trading port for seeds and animals. There's a lack of building materials. You can see, that I'm building only colorful houses, not every color, only those I like (there will be no purple roofs in this settlement) ;). You can also see that there's one menu from a house open. That's part of my strategy for the beginning. Uneducated are terrible blacksmiths and tailors. I plan to produce as much tools and clothes as possible as long as I have some educated. I keep an eye on the blacksmith (and tailor, when I have material enough to run it) that not a 10 year old is keen on practising one of these crafts. These 4 houses in this blacksmith, tailor chopper area are occupied by the initial families.

Fourth picture

7 years gone, 65 inhabitants. The settlement grows quite fast but far from as fast as possible. I´ve managed to build a lighthouse, so I've cut in the menu from the population. You can see; 30 families but "only" 17 homes. This is after the small bugfix. The wells now produce water. The Bannis in this settlement seem very fond of it. I had to build a second to have enough water to make perfume. I can't afford to sell much firewood, so perfume is more or less the only payment. You can see the content in my stores. I have no seeds yet, so it's a good mixture of what you can expect in the store of a settlement without farming.

Two questions @RedKetchup; the merchants who come to this port don't accept food or herbs. Is that intentional? In a vanilla trading port you can buy seeds from the general trader with these goods. I would have liked to sell some herbs but it works this way, too. No complain, just a question. You can see the population is healthy, even when I have no grain and no herbalist. Is this the honey. Is it still the "super food" of several food categories? (That second question was more a complain ;) )

I have more screenshots. I played a while yesterday. I'll show them later.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 02, 2018, 05:52:10 AM
i like your numbers, seems to still doing good :)

Quote from: Nilla on April 02, 2018, 03:29:56 AM
Two questions @RedKetchup; the merchants who come to this port don't accept food or herbs. Is that intentional? In a vanilla trading port you can buy seeds from the general trader with these goods. I would have liked to sell some herbs but it works this way, too.

in vanilla the seed vendor and the livestock vendor never accepted herbs and food. only the General Goods merchant accept those. And it stayed that way. I never changed it.
should I ??
should I allow people to get seeds and livestocks in this particular seeds trading post with food and herbs ?


Quote from: Nilla on April 02, 2018, 03:29:56 AM
You can see the population is healthy, even when I have no grain and no herbalist. Is this the honey. Is it still the "super food" of several food categories? (That second question was more a complain ;) )

bah you have vegetables, you have fruits, you have meats ... and the honey count for grain only.
so you have them all :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 03, 2018, 04:16:14 AM
Quoteshould I allow people to get seeds and livestocks in this particular seeds trading post with food and herbs ?

It doesn't really matter to me. It's alright the way it is, but I wouldn't mind, if you could sell what you like, for seeds and animals as well. It was more a question to think about. In my game it seems like there are a lot of animal merchant but very few selling seeds. The very first, year 3 (?) brought watermelon seeds but I hadn't enough goods to buy it. It took until year 9 to get lime seeds, year 12 to get corn and year 16 to get potatoes.

Quoteand the honey count for grain only.

That explains the health. In some other mods, I think it's fruit. But in fact, I would prefere it to be food, without category, like your water. In that case, I wouldn't mind the high production from the apiary.

I wanted to show more pictures yesterday but other things got in the way and in the evening I wanted to continue the game. Here are some impressions from how it has developed.

First picture

9 years gone, 79 inhabitants. Finally a seed merchant and he brought lemon seeds. A tree! The seed I wanted the most! :) If you look at the store of logs and firewood, there´s no big surplus. At this moment this is the big problem: If I build something, there's not enough logs for firewood (even if I use all the thatch as well) and if I want a small store of firewood, I can't build anything.

One thing is clear here and on all of the following pictures; after the first year, there has never been any problem to get enough food............. but more or less everything else is difficult.

One question @RedKetchup; I haven't found anything about the heat economy of the colorful houses. My feeling is that they need less firewood than a woodenhouse but more than the NMT houses. A number would be nice, just to estimate, if it pays off to go for the more expensive houses.

Second picture

11 years gone, this one is without menus, just because you once said you like the pictures best that way, @RedKetchup. It shows my strategy to get more logs: plant orchards, let it grow, harvest fruit once, cut orchards, harvest logs, replant.

Third picture

13 years gone, 140 inhabitants. Finally some corn. "My orchard trick" hasn't fully paid off, it takes time for trees to grow. It's good that way, but at least I could build a mine for iron ore and some NMT buildings. My educated blacksmiths were diligent and there are some tools in the store..........

....... I thought.........

Fourth picture

16 years gone, 183 inhabitants. I saw it coming but didn't have means to stop it. Tool less people; no fun, but rather no tools than no firewood. So my priority was on producing enough firewood. To establish a production of sufficient tools with uneducated workers had to wait. I couldn't organize enough logs for both at the same time.

Fifth picture

One more year, tool crisis got worse. I wasn't sure, how this would end. I remembered the early days, as I started to play Banished; if I got a tool crisis, it was normally the beginning of the End (if you understand what I mean) hard to recover, if no friendly merchant brought a boat load of tools..... and he will not save me this time.

But thanks to the orchard logs, firewood is under control (or at least I hoped, that the toll-less chopper still could make enough firewood)

I'll think I'll stop here for now; perfect cliff hanger. More will come. :)


Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 03, 2018, 04:41:02 AM
np :)

first floor :
ResidenceDescription lhresidence
{
   int _maxApartments = 1;
   int _maxOccupants = 5;
   float _temperatureForFuel = 50.0;
   float _fuelPerResource = 80.0;
}

2nd floor :
ResidenceDescription lhresidence
{
   int _maxApartments = 1;
   int _maxOccupants = 6;
   float _temperatureForFuel = 50.0;
   float _fuelPerResource = 90.0;
}


so yeah 1st floor is better, almost a stone house.
2nd floor equal a stone house :)

1st floor allow 2 adults 3 children, while the 2nd floor allow 4 children.
i wish not live on the 1st floor lol
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 03, 2018, 04:45:28 AM
hmmmm uneducated toolless bannies... should be very brutal :D ( sound toothless ^^)

too many laborers lol
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 03, 2018, 09:48:08 AM
Brutal! yes that's the right word. If anyone finds Banished an easy game, give the advice to use this mod and play without schools and normal trading ports. ;)

But I  can now confess, that after some calculations, I've given up the no school part. I don't like the consequences. It might have worked, but not the way I want to and I don't think, it would give any good information about this mod. It was a funny attempt, that I barely managed to get through.

I looked into my production sites and found this: each iron mine produces about 200 iron ore every year (less if the miners have no tools). From that you can make 100 iron from which you make 100 tools. With all these miners; about 190 adults needed 350 tools the last year. So with 4 full mines I can produce enough tools, but I will not continue like this and build another mine each time the population grows with 50-60 adults. And 10% of the whole population as miners :( No fun!

Educated miners produce at least 25% more. I have no numbers but say 250 iron ore, that gives 250 iron and 500 tools; 5 times as much as uneducated! One mine would have been enough for quite some time.

So, I have built a school and also played a few years. I even saw an educated blacksmith in one of the foundries. It was very obvious how the amount of iron suddenly increased! :) I will continue without (normal) trading port.  I think it could give you some useful information about how the changed production numbers work @RedKetchup, when you really need to produce everything yourself.

First picture

You made a comment about the many laborers @RedKetchup. In this game it's deliberate. First I use many farmers to harvest times and use to close orchards after the harvest and I need many laborers to get logs, iron ore and stones from far away. But I never sent anyone this far! I just looked; 16 people died between late summer and early winter year 19. It was 12 laborers, 1 miner, 1 blacksmith and 2 children. I can't understand what they were doing here up in the north. As I said; I didn't find one marked tree or stone on the wrong side of any river or stream and it's also  too many people during a too long time for that.

Has anyone any idea what might have gone wrong?

Second picture

I've cut in some graphs to illustrate, that except for food, it's been pretty tough. The lack of tools was interesting. Three of four times 30-50 people were out of tools at the most, but after a while, things were sorted out and everyone had a tool again until next drop. Seems like "everyone" wanted a tool to the same time. But if I looked into the statistics, also these bad years, I produced about the same number of tools as was used.

Third picture

Here again, just an impression from my town. You can see my school, but also that I'm just building my second graveyard. We discussed this in my last game and @Denis de la Rive was quite upset, that I didn't built any. But in that game I expanded fast, every youngster could move out fast. The happiness was alright. Here, it's different. I have built too few houses for a long time. Many young people still lives at their parent's, when one parent dies of old age. They will 100% lose all stars except that last one. It's also very unlikely, that they can recover any stars. That only happens, if an unhappy person can move out very young. So, if I like it or not; in this settlement we need a couple of graveyards.  :-\

Didn't you say something about adding your "Creepy Graveyard" to this mod @RedKetchup. That one is more fun.  ;)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 03, 2018, 08:58:52 PM
did you got nomads in this game ? are these fresh citizens ?. i think you said it is 2nd time it happends... is it same map ?
did you got small/medium/tiny barns made in this game ?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2018, 02:31:18 AM
I've taken nomads once in this game. They found their way into the town. It was to a time between these two occasions on the same map.

This reminds me a bit about what I call the "freezing bug". I've given games up because of that damn thing before. I found this blog: http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=980.msg18361#msg18361

In other games it has always been a building to which people are running. Here it doesn't look like that; or maybe there would be after all: This is a bugged map. As I've said, the merchant turns around after his visits, goes to the end of the map, turns again and pass the port a second time (without stopping) before he leaves. This is also a known bug. So there must be "something wrong with the coordinates" of this map. Maybe all these people were on their way to this "bugged building" but they too, lost their way and somehow landed on a spot where they can't get away. A combination of two different bugs.

To me it's the only explanation, that makes sense. I'm open to other suggestions. But all the same. I will not go on with this map.

I started a new game yesterday evening but didn't play long. I don't know what's wrong with my games?; I lost one child in an unusual way here too, at least unusual after the very first patch of Banished. Those of you who have played Banished this long remember the death marches and the lost children: here it appeared again.

@RedKetchup do you miss the first days of Banished and is that the reason you have recreated some of these early "specialties?"  :P ;)

Anyhow; after this I shut the game and watched some TV!  :-\  Even if @irrelevant isn't that active on this page anymore, someone else might recognise the quote in the name of the picture.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 04, 2018, 06:48:16 AM
he probably tried to get the other side of the creek, just in front of your sand pit ^^ but turned around when he saw the night was coming ^^
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 04, 2018, 08:21:10 AM
@Nilla Did you lose a child? The Woods are full of dangers.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 04, 2018, 10:12:04 AM
Quote from: Turis on April 04, 2018, 08:21:10 AM
@Nilla Did you lose a child? The Woods are full of dangers.

mean men disguised as harmless animals........... or what?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 04, 2018, 12:04:01 PM
BAAAAAAAHHHHH!
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 04, 2018, 04:38:16 PM
nilla , do you still have that save with the 15 starving people ?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 01:18:20 AM
No, sorry, only about a year after and quite a long time before. But I have one with 28 starving in the left corner. They are all ex-nomads, I took a couple of months ago. You can see, that they are not stranded nomads; they all have clothing and tools. Some of their children are still in the village. My guess is that they are lost on their way to clear the land around the thatch farmer I've built just norht of the village.

The first time it happened, I hadn't taken any nomads at all before and they were lost on the very north part of the map(there's a bridge now)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 02:37:34 AM
I did continue the game with the lost child. Nothing weird has happend since. The game runs smooth and nice. I will not trade anything in this game; trying to fill the map and see how many people a small map can support without any "input".

You have made some interesting changes in the production numbers @RedKetchup, that indeed will make this kind of game, without trade easier. If you want to play a game where the population is supported mostly using trade, it will be much harder, than it was. As I said; interesting tweak. Without really testing, I think this more balanced. In vanilla Banished, it's too cheap to buy a lot of things; a large trade based economy is way easier to manage than a self supporting.

I have no numbers yet, a part of the population is uneducated. I've taken nomads a couple of times without any problems at all. The one dull thing is maybe, that all my villages look pretty much the same. I simply like the sandbricks the best; nicest to look at, (it's mainly the brick roofs, that I like better than any other kind of roof and roofs "make" the over-all-look of the settlement). These houses have the best heat economy, I find, it's easier to make brick, than to produce stones (or maybe not anymore, maybe I'll try some stone NMT houses as well, those with the green roofs are also pretty nice.) Anyway, I will not replace the colorful houses, even build the one or other new in more isolated locations, as a small variation.

I'll show some pictures, just impressions. I started yesterday with a name and I will continue this series, until it gets too hard. (I have my doubts, that it will reach the end) Maybe some of you, who was young in the 1970s know, what I'm trying to do. If not, it's a way to amuse myself. ;)  ;D

Edit: I see the name of the second picture went missing; too long or maybe the ´? It´s called "I´m in love with my cart".

I also forgot, that you asked about different stores in that other game. Again I´ve forgotten to look, but on this picture you can see, that I use to build stores of every size (3 different just on this picture), so I likely have them all in that other game, too
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 05, 2018, 03:15:00 AM
i took your save and i took your last screenshot :)
what i wanted to know if all different size of the barns, if citizens interact perfectly with all those 3-4 barns.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 04:43:24 AM
Do you mean if they put stuff into them? As far as I've seen all sizes work good. No size is preferred before the others, no size is rejected.

There's not anything in all of the mini stores in that long row, only in those most right. But that's rather because there's no need for so much storage space in that area at the moment. I just built them  because there was a "stupid" piece of free space, I didn't know what to made out of. As you know, I don't plan much in advance so this "just happened". Here I like to fill the map and have as little unused space as possible. Barns could always be useful and I think it looks fun: Like every family in the close house block has their own small storage.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 05, 2018, 05:59:06 AM
Quote from: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 04:43:24 AM
Do you mean if they put stuff into them?

put stuff, take stuff, and more precisely, where they stand when they interact with the building. do they go to the doors ? near? far? ....
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 07:07:13 AM
Normal, medium, small, tiny barns and granary all work. People go to the door to put/take out stuff. I have seen no one on the side or walking through or some other ugly things.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 05, 2018, 04:12:24 PM
@Nilla Wow, my cloak of invisibility works perfectly. :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 05, 2018, 04:16:41 PM
Quote from: Nilla on April 05, 2018, 07:07:13 AM
Normal, medium, small, tiny barns and granary all work. People go to the door to put/take out stuff. I have seen no one on the side or walking through or some other ugly things.

good thanks. so they arent the problem with your lost packs of citizens ?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 06, 2018, 02:41:20 AM
Can't imagine that the barns would be the problem. As I said, I think the stranded people were going to clear land. The second time I wanted them to help the fodder farmer to get rid of trees and rocks, and I guess, that the first group also was going to clear land. It was to a time in the game when I needed more logs and iron, that I could produce, so I always sent people a bit outside the village. (but never that far)  ::) :P

But my other game brings no problems. It grows, nice and easy.:) The nomads have now all died of old age, so I have now a 100% educated population. So I have started to look a bit more on the changed production.

Mining products:
I like the increased production and higher trade values. I have no good numbers. I micromanage a bit; I want enough, but not too much raw material carried around, so I change production and number of workers from time to time. I will produce a bit more continuously and give you some numbers the next time. But it looks like the miners make an annual profit in the range of 200-400 each year. That's a perfect range for products, you produce for your own use. I don't think I had one accident in my mines. Maybe you've gone a bit too far by reducing the professional risk by mining and stone cutting. I don't mind, that it's lower than it was, but not quite this low. (or maybe it was only luck)

I was never a fan of "not burning coal". It makes production of steel tools/carbon tools easier, yes, of course. But, as you might know, I like Banished to be a bit tricky, I like when you need to focus on good locations and good distribution of goods. There's also another aspect: In a game like this (a lot of people on a small area without the trade opportunity) logs for firewood is the limiting thing. It would have been interesting, to try mining for coal, not to replace firewood but to help out. Maybe this is what you want to avoid, but I don't think it's easy to produce enough coal to heat a whole town anyway. In my opinion coal as fuel add more value to the game. (And those who really hate this, could always add the "stop burning coal" separate mod)

It looks like you also had increased the production of the furnace and blacksmith. (or is it only a good location and no coal fuel that make this high production?) I will give you some production numbers next time. The town now has 770 inhabitants and I only have one furnace (that makes iron but also manage to "get rid of" all coppar ore) and until recently I managed to support the whole town with 2 blacksmiths.

I just wrote "get rid of" copper ore. And in fact; I produce copper and put most of it in my trading port (just to get it out of the way, I have all seeds I need). I have noticed this before but never talked about it; I find the amount of copper on the ground too high. In other games I have made some experimenting with copper/copper alloy tools but they are not as good as iron/steel/carbon tools (good that way!) so it's more to get rid of it. In my last game I produced some copper tools for export. You need a little coppar for some buildings but in none of my games I needed to mine for it, there was always more than enough on the ground. (iron and stone are much different). I wouldn't mind, if there would be less coppar on the ground or maybe it could be used more regular. Perhaps in in one of your NMT houses, replacing iron as material (Maybe the house with the nice blue roof. I've also built some of those and like them almost as much as the brick roofs)  :)

Other changes

It looks like you also changed the output from the clay and sandpit. Good! Works fine.

The reduction of food production is small, it's still very easy to produce a lot of food. Mainly because of the profitable farming. The small reduction doesn't make much difference.

You said you had increased the production from the fodder farmer. I haven't noticed an increase of fodder. I think the deadwood is the cause. These dead trees appear on the meadow. That looks weird and reduce the grass production to what it was before.(that amount is OK, it's enough for 2 stables)  Maybe it's not possible to prevent this from happening, I don't know what makes a dead tree "spawn". (picture)

But as I said; the higher production of the mines/quarries makes a difference! The growth of the settlement goes easier. In all other games lack of stone is a limit for development. I often build a couple of more trading ports than I really would need otherwise, just to buy enough stones (and logs, maybe log production could also need an overhaul, I'll write about this the next time). Here I run out of stones from time to time as well, but it's much faster to catch up. I like that! :)

It's only one picture this time. I need a few years more for the next in my row, but then I'll show you some menus with numbers (and as usual get complain from @RedKetchup about my many unemployed)  ;D
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 06, 2018, 03:04:36 AM
it could be barns the problem because i've got to redo the dummies to interact those buildings, it was one of the rare "interaction" modification i did in that patch, and surprisingly, you started to get trouble with lost people :P

not sure if the professional risk nerf is still there, it is set inside the profession file which is also there i changed the position of each profession to put them in alphabetical order.... so in my book, should be same as vanilla since i "paused" that change of profession file in the patch 12c. probably it is just luck, or maybe i should go back to see there is something i did differently ^^

i can put back the fuel flag to coal :P and yeah, i increased the production of tools, more like it was in vanilla. and i increased the production of everything but a couple i did the opposite to make it slower.

yeah copper/copper alloy tools are a bit less good than counter parts (iron and steel) because it is more easy to make some than their counter parts.
i can lower the copper spawns.

and i should make the deadwood not spawning by the grass :) only by the forest.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 06, 2018, 05:50:35 AM
I should be playing a roleplaying game instead of annoying @Nilla with silly posts. In truth, she'd make an excellent dungeon master. Were you a teacher in real life?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 06, 2018, 06:07:40 AM
No comment to the first part! ;)

And NO, no teacher! Are you trying to annoy me? ;)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 06, 2018, 09:37:17 AM
Not really. I can't believe that I tried to apologize and now she's the one teasing me. :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 07, 2018, 03:04:06 AM
@Turis, everything can be made in different ways; sometimes it has the wanted effect, sometimes it triggers something else, sometimes it even triggers the wanted something else. ;)

Anyway, of course I blame all these weird things on you; only you! Not a bugged game, not a glitch in some mod, not my way of squeezing everything together, not bad luck: only your Iberian sorcery! Must find a way to beat it! ;)

As I wrote in that other thread, I had problems yesterday. This is what I wrote:
QuoteFirst it seems to be the forest barns that were weird. It looked like a laborer from any place of the map, walked to one special forest barn to put logs in it. As soon as they started their walk to this barn, the homeless sign was shown. As soon as they put their logs in the barn, the homeless sign was gone. The same thing happend several times, so I demolished this barn, After that they chose another forest barn; now only this, no other barn. I demolished that barn and now they started to walk to a granary barn to bring or get some supply. Again only to this barn. After I demolished this barn, a normal barn was the chosen as "special barn". After this I shut the game!

I'm really not a "quitter" usually I don't give in easily. I had an idea, that I wanted to try, so I started the game again. I looked from where the people came, not so easy with homeless people, but all the time, it looked like they were coming from a special area of the map. And as I've said; as soon as they've delivered their goods to that "far away barn", the homeless sign was gone and they moved back home; into that area. There's a row of houses at the river. On some spots there are a couple of "closed areas"between a house and the river. I also found one closed tile behind a cart, were I occasionally saw people. Such areas are "dangerous". It might happen, that people get in there, get stuck and starve to death. That hasn't happened here, but my guess is, that these areas triggered this strange behaviour. I made some changes; moved that cart, demolished a house and used the levelling tool to open an access to these former closed areas. I can't say for sure, that this definitely solved the problem. It was late and I didn't play all too long, but after I've fixed this; I have had no more homeless wanderers. I hope it'll stay that way.

Pictures

I'll continue my little sequence; first I'll show you some menus, on "39".  This picture also shows my strategy for getting more logs. My 4 foresters aren't enough. I cut the orchards after 1 or 2 years, it also gives a very good control on the numbers of logs; I cut as many orchard as needed.

The second picture shows the "sweet lady" in a former "closed area" . You can see, where I've used the levelling tool.

The houses with the blue roof are almost as nice as the brick roofs. An area suitable for a "seeside rendezvous", like the couple on the fishing dock.

I thought my sequence had to end here. But "thanks to" the bad influence from @Turis ( :P ), I found an opening; Here's the "prophet's song"

"Oh, oh, people of the earth
Listen to the warning
The seer he said
Beware the storm that gathers here
Listen to the wise man"
........
"Oh flee for your life
Who heed me not let all your treasure make you
Oh fear for your life
Deceive you not the fires of hell will take you
Should death await you"

I tried to follow the advice from the second part above (and the tricks from @RedKetchup); made all people in the area unemployed and let them flee to the other corner of the map to clear some ground. It was disappointing; the storm disappeared almost as soon as it appeared, killing a couple of workers out in the forest and destroyed some trees. That was all!

I need 4 more pictures to finish this. I don´t see, how I can manage the two last, but we´ll see. @Turis might "help out" here again! :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 07, 2018, 03:42:18 AM
lets hope you dont get any problems anymore
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 07, 2018, 03:43:26 AM
Of course I can, my fair lady @Nilla . First, the town is better off without you. Second, you need to start a campaign to attract people. Perhaps, write messages to your neighbors informing them of the local job opportunities for young families who are willing to travel. Third, also, you may need to raise a militia and men-at-arms guided by veteran soldiers to increase the security of the town from outsiders and establish a permanent group of guardsmen to watch over the essential areas of the town like granaries, main square or plazas, wells and other public buildings such as the town hall and your residence.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 07, 2018, 04:02:22 AM
@Tom Sawyer  is offering soon your militia, men at arms, and guardsmen ... :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 08, 2018, 05:32:55 AM
I challenge you to a duel. Wild West Online (http://playwwo.com/?utm_source=cityads&utm_campaign=WWO&tracking_id=2SqUwlTJviG6K0QEuQT2YEmBShD3sDUu)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 08, 2018, 07:03:29 AM
@Turis, ask @brads3, he´s the cowboy. I´m the peaceful old lady, knitting by the fireside, remember! No room for me in the Wild West. The same this town, it´s totally peaceful! No militia needed. The most dangerous species are some pigs, (of the breed Iberico), normally feasting on acorns deep in the forests, but occasionally showed themselves in the village, grubbing everywhere; turning our fields and orchards totally up side down. The children loved the piglets, but they are no "good company" ;) But we have good hunters, so the pigs have disappeared. We haven't seen any for centuries, no pheasant, hares, bears or bison eather. The only prey our hunters still can find are deer. On the big map my hunters still killed all kind of animals after 40 years, but opposite to this map, there was some "untouched forest".

Other things that have disappeared are the various kind of berries, that used to grow in our forests. (I don't mind it that way, that might be a reason, that I hadn't said anything before. It also happened on the big map. I thought, that someone who likes this "diversity" would have noticed and said something.) But since you put so much effort in making all these different berries, I guess you want to know, if they disappear in a busy forest after maybe 20 years, @RedKetchup.

There has been no further trouble in this game. Everything works fine. The map is full, I have plenty of everything needed. I realize that I could have supported more people on this map. I have decided to let it run "one cycle". The population has started to get down, I will let it drop and when the population starts to increase again, I will build more houses and also make some other changes. I have some ideas. Since I'm not really playing at the moment, I have a lot of time to look at production numbers and think about possible improvements.

If you look at the first picture; "Love of my life" it shows the output from the 3 forest working sites. I have made some more notes;

4 gatherer; 2500-3300 food and 108-164 firewood (tradevalue 3000-4000)
3 hunter; 320-960 food and 12-36 leather (tradevalue 1000-3200 if you can sell ALL meat but that will not be possible and in this town without trade 440-1300)
4 forester; 320-380 logs and 20-48 firewood (tradevalue 700-1000)

You have started to change tradevalues @RedKetchup. I have two more to suggest:

1. Meat reduced from 3 to 1. I have always thought that meat as export is silly. But most people (including me) sell it. OK, meat may be expensive, but why would a merchant in a rowing boat want to bye fresh meat on a warm summer day and pay a high price. He will soon be forced to throw it all into the river. Let salted, dried and smoked meat be profitable to sell, but not fresh. I would also suggest the "old production numbers" for meat. If you're only comparing food as a Banni sees it; a hunter is far less valuable than a gatherer and pastures less than farms. (With tradevalue 3 it's different)

2. Logs increased from 2 to 4. This would make it less interesting to import all these loads of logs, many people do (including me). To order logs would even give a penalty of 1. It would still be profitable enough to produce firewood and a forester could at least support himself and a child.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 08, 2018, 08:18:20 AM
the forest doesnt spawn any of the new food at all, thats the grass that spawn these food. so if your forest get empty of grass... you wont get any of those anymore in in forests.
did you cleared all grass in forest zones by yourself, manually ? or it is your foresters who took care of this ?


so you are suggesting to bring back the meat at previous numbers, and down the value at 1 ? and let the tier 2 meats at their upgraded value(2) if they took firewood to smoke it or salt to salt it ?
about hunters numbers, you need to keep in mind with another layer (butcher/smokery/saltery/drying) you double the amount of meat, while you cannot double the amount of onion/shrooms/root/berries with another layer. So at the end, which one is more profitable ?

logs have still a value of 2..... want me to up it to 4 ? whats about to 3 ?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: brads3 on April 08, 2018, 08:42:26 AM
interesting. so the grass doesn't grow back by itself i thought it was earlier on.since they are connected to grass and not trees,i wonder if that is affecting my gathering. is good to know.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 08, 2018, 08:56:49 AM
OK, the other fruits spawn from grass; clever! I have seen them on my meadow. I only thought, that they were still there because I don't occupy a gatherer there. Maybe I should try one and see what happens. And no, I haven't cleared any grass manually. (maybe some at the very first forester, but none by the others).

You have a point about the possibility to process meat (and fish, grain AND mushrooms, don't forget them). But I find it more difficult to process meat than fish. I have only dryers in this game. They run very well, if they are located on places where there's always a lot of fish, but the output gets down very much if there's not. With many smaller grocery stores the food is very well distributed all over the place. It will be hard to always have a lot of meat close to the dryers/salters/smokers. Good dryers can produce over 1800 dried fish (2 worker) but I also have some with less than 1000. It's those who are located close to fisher and not directly at a grocery store. It seems like the vendors often are faster than the baker.

I suggested a trade value of 4 for logs because I find it interesting, if it's more expensive to order them. I don't think there is an "ordering fee" on goods worth 3. (but I'm not sure. I can't remember, that I ever ordered anything worth 3 in vanilla Banished. In the North it's not more expensive, but Tom has changed a lot and it might be different vanilla)

Firewood would still be very profitable. With logs worth 2 each firewood makes a profit of 3,5, with the logs costing 4 it's still 3 (or 2,75 if you have to order to a higher price) Your chopper makes at least 300 firewood. That's s till a reasonable profit.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 08, 2018, 10:09:50 AM
Quote from: Nilla on April 08, 2018, 07:03:29 AM
@Turis, ask @brads3, he´s the cowboy. I´m the peaceful old lady, knitting by the fireside, remember! No room for me in the Wild West.
Well, guess what? You can do that in the game. Where's your sense of adventure? Get in the game, find a small plot of land and do some farming.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 08, 2018, 10:21:22 AM
Quote from: Turis on April 08, 2018, 10:09:50 AM
........... find a small plot of land and do some farming.

And Turis comes to destroy everything! NO NO NO NO! Will never happen!   ::) :P
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 08, 2018, 11:13:40 AM
How did you...  :) :D
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 08, 2018, 11:34:37 AM
Forget it. You're imposible. We wouldn't know each other in the game unless we both agree beforehand. But now I realize that if your farm and you were attacked by anybody, you would just come here and blame me even if I'm innocent.

Sorry, but, I'll find someone else to play with me.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2018, 03:41:22 AM
Has @Turis finally understood, that I try to avoid games with a violent content? The world is too full of violence. I don't need that to my amusement. Don't get me wrong; I don't find, that people who like most of the computer games are bad persons. I don't think, that it's more likely, that you go out in the streets killing or beating people, just because you like to do it on a screen. Luckily, everyone can choose the kind of game they like, including me.  Maybe the absence of violence is one of the reasons, that I'm hooked here by Banished. Except a few "killing boars" and some mysterious murders of vendors/traders(?) everything is peaceful.  Not even the nomads get violent, if you turn them down. A game for me! :)

@RedKetchup, I have said this before: When I make suggestions or have thoughts about one thing or the other, take it for what it is; something to think about. Not more, not less. I don't expect anything to be changed, just to please me. The things you do has to please you. I know, you are (or at least were  ;) ) a very good player. (How long has it been since you had time to really play Banished?) Even if it has been some time, I know, that you have a good feeling for what will work and also for what people want.

I built that gatherer in the meadow. They find a lot of different food. Since the circle is a bit small, I started with 2 worker. I think that's enough. I now have 4 but they don't make much more. They find less food than in a forest; about 900, but as I said; it's a smaller circle.

I will try to use my "orchard trick" to its limit: I will replace my forests with orchards and fields and produce all the logs I need by cutting orchards. With these dense orchards, it's far more efficient than running a forester. I'll make a calculation, to compare with the forester, gatherer and hunter, that together makes about 430 logs (firewood included) and 4000 food. A forest has a diameter of 70, that gives an area of 3800 tiles.

I build orchards 5*15 tiles. That's 24 trees, each make 3 logs (I think). To make 430 logs you'll need 6 of these orchards. I harvest 1 year plums, so you can only harvest logs every 4. year. That means you need 4*6=24 orchards= 1800 tiles. One orchard use to give average 520 plums; that's about 3000 food. With two fields 5*15 you'll get totally 4000 food. This means you use only a little more than the half area to get the same amount of food and logs as the "forest node". This way I'll have much more free area to build houses and to produce more food and orchard logs.

Do I like to make it this way? No, not really. I like the forests. It's also a bit weird to cut fully functional fruit trees after one years harvest. But if I can squeeze 2000-2500 people on a small map without trade, it might be worth it.  :-\

Do I wish any changes to make this way impossible? No, not really. It's a awkward way to play. I don't think, many people will use this to its limit, like I do here. I have always used orchards as additional log producers, but never this way. I guess this will also be the first and last time I do.

One thing you could do @RedKetchup, if you want to make this way less profitable, would be to return to the less dense orchards. But to me, the main reason would be another: I've always found, that these dense orchards doesn't look good; it's too tight between the trees, it looks too dense to me. I know you made them that way, because you want to make the output similar to a field. It's a good thought, but maybe the better way would have been, to give each tree a higher output.

This game slowly comes to its end: I will play a bit tonight but tomorrow I'll go on vacation. So it's time to try to give the last two pictures their names, or rather try with all my (OK very limited  :-\ :( :-[ ) creativity to make pictures to the names I have. It doesn't look like anyone have a clue on what "game I'm playing" with these weird names on my pictures. Maybe the next will help. I need to explain two words: "bohemian" - a person who lives an unconventional life without obligations; (like idling at a well or walking in rows across the land ?), "rhapsody"; a mixture of pieces, that don't naturally belong to eachother. And since @Turis called me "My fair lady Nilla" a while ago, I guess the natural next step is to say "God Save the Queen" and show you some statistics! ;) 

I´ll give you a "bonus track", just because I know, that @RedKetchup likes nice impressions with his mod. I like this former forest part of the village.

Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 09, 2018, 03:47:28 AM
But, I'm not like that. Just because I play violent games don't mean I'm violent in real life. In fact, I'm a quiet person and respectful towards everyone where I live. I don't even own any firearms since many years ago. Well, I didn't see the point of having them since I can play these games in my PC.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2018, 03:49:59 AM
That´s exactly what meant!
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 09, 2018, 04:10:11 AM
But, from my point of view, it's the complete opposite. I didn't buy guns from the influence of violent games, but, the opposite, I sold my guns because I didn't have the need of having them. I owned guns while I was in the military, but, not now.

I don't quite understand why you see this as proof of your point. Something must be wrong with your mind. You need to see a doctor. I'm serious. I'm not joking. My mother also has some mental issues because of her old age. She's about to be in her eighties.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2018, 07:09:11 AM
@Turis; didn´t you read what I wrote in the first place?
QuoteI don't find, that people who like most of the computer games are bad persons. I don't think, that it's more likely, that you go out in the streets killing or beating people, just because you like to do it on a screen.

But if you mean, that just because you like computergames with some violent part in it, everyone else must as well; I don´t think, I´m the one of us both, that have a mental disorder. But I will not say more in this matter. I think it´s better to agree to disagree, than throwing insults on other people.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 09, 2018, 08:11:44 AM
A safe world is just a dream and sometimes one has to fight fire with fire to maintain our dreams alive. You're the dreamer and I'm the warrior. Well, not really since you think I want you to feel miserable. I'm just playing around like a kid. That doesn't mean I would hurt you in real life. If I wanted to do that, I would've asked you to join me in Conan exiles. :) :P
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 09, 2018, 08:43:06 AM
so how you found the numbers ? we are going forward overall ?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 09, 2018, 09:44:19 AM
Yeah, I'm stealing all of her animals and setting afire her barn. Let's see how the numbers go in the market.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 09, 2018, 11:28:25 AM
Send your warriors, @Turis. They will soon be corrupted by the good bohemian life in this village: some nice light outdoor occupations like fishing, picking plums, occasionally cut a plum tree and above all a lot of idling with the girls at the well and opportunities to tell stories about their heroic achievements. That the girls laugh about them when they're gone, they will never notice. ;)

Numbers;

As I've said before, I like the new output from the mines and the new trading values. I have made a few notes of the production numbers, all 6 miners;
stones: 198-232
coal; 424-460
iron ore; 285-348

It's still a low profit compared to woodchopper, farmer, beekeeper....... but at least a miner can support himself and maybe even a child.

You will never need to spam the map with mines, just to support the population with tools and building materials. So far (1600 inhabitants) I have managed to support all building sites with stones, and most the time also support the blacksmiths with iron and coal for steel tools ( I made iron tools a short time to catch up with stones) with one stone/coal mine and one iron mine (6 miners each). But I will need one more of each, if I want to go on with this town. But we mustn't forget, that I've built most brick houses, if you want more stone houses, you would have needed at least one extra stone mine. This is all very reasonable. I have 2 foundries, (but need only one) and 6 blacksmiths (need only 4-5). Also reasonable.

I don't know, if it only looked that way or if the production of steel tools is higher than iron tools. Normally it's the opposite, but as I said, I only produced iron tools for a short time , and have no numbers, so I can't say for sure.

I have noticed, that farming brings slightly less than usual, but the change is too small to make a difference. I find these small units without working area or input; like apiary, fishpond, water well still gives too much.
Apiary (2) 1100- 1400
Fishpond (4) 2000- 2400
Water well 380-480

I would reduce this and not make it possible to use more than 1 beekeeper and 2 fisher in each site.

The "food processors" I use; mill, bakery, dryer (fish) all produce, good or even very good. The output can variate a lot (more than 100%) depending on access of raw material. As I've said before; many small markets makes the distribution very good.

Mill (2): up to 4000, (increase of food 2000)
Bakery, fish dryer (2) up to 2000, (increase of food 1000)

But as I've said; it's often less than this. I've seen 1500 for a mill and 900 for the others. I don't mind that these sites are profitable. They are harder to locate and you must organize a good access to rawmaterial to get these height values. Maybe the mill is too high and the others too low.

My picture row

Since I´ve got no comment on the names of my picture row, I will just tell, that I like to listen to music, while I'm at the computer. The first thing I do when I've installed a new game, is to disable the music. I want "mine". At the moment I'm listening to a row of whole legendary albums, mostly from the 1960s and 70s. As that first child got lost in the woods and starved to death, I just listened to the group Queen's album "A Night at the Opera". The name of the first song is "Death on two legs". This was an omen! All other bildnames are songs from that album, too. I think "Bohemian Rhapsody" is the most well known of them. At the moment Rolling Stone´s cake album; "Let it bleed" is on. No worries, I will not try to name any pictures after the songs. ;)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 09, 2018, 01:14:49 PM
Just remember that it's not what I say, but, what I do that defines me. And what I do is sitting in front of my PC playing games all day just like you. :) :P
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: brads3 on April 09, 2018, 03:22:18 PM
<<<<< slaps Nilla's hands for messing with the water well output
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: grammycat on April 09, 2018, 05:02:28 PM
double slap Nilla's hand-bad girl!   Leave the well and apiary alone. . .please, pretty please?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 10, 2018, 01:46:54 AM
Oh yes, go on! I'm the punshing bag on WOB! :'(  I'll take a vacation!  :)

But I always say; what I write here in my blog is the opinion of one person, others may think different. It's also no demand on @RedKetchup to change anything, just my suggestions. I'm very well aware that "You can't always get what you want" ( :-[ sorry, but I only promised, no more picture names ;) )

I didn't had much time to play yesterday evening, was busy packing. The town has a little more than 1700 inhabitants. In my last game on a big map, I noticed some lags and that the game didn't run as smooth as at the beginning. It had only 1300 inhabitants. Here I notice nothing of that kind. It is and has always been a big difference, if you use a small or big map. So my advice to everyone who has problems with lags and a slow games; chose a smaller map.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 10, 2018, 02:41:53 AM
Okay, I'll leave you alone for a while as you need a break and relax with some hot tea! :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 10, 2018, 03:01:44 AM
Quote from: Nilla on April 10, 2018, 01:46:54 AM
I didn't had much time to play yesterday evening, was busy packing. The town has a little more than 1700 inhabitants. In my last game on a big map, I noticed some lags and that the game didn't run as smooth as at the beginning. It had only 1300 inhabitants. Here I notice nothing of that kind. It is and has always been a big difference, if you use a small or big map. So my advice to everyone who has problems with lags and a slow games; chose a smaller map.

it has alot to do with the ingame citizens pathing, it was already there in 1st days back in time there werent any mods yet. asap you started to get the 1200 mark, you were starting to notice it alot.
it has nothing to do with my mod unfortunately/or fortunately lol
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 10, 2018, 03:16:25 AM
No hot tea, more a cold drink at the pool! :)

And yes, I know very well @RedKetchup, that these lags has nothing to do with your or anyone else´s mods. I remember how bad this was with my old computer. I couldn't play big maps at all, started to get these lags by some 500 inhabitants. 
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 10, 2018, 04:28:17 AM
Do you want me to help you reduce the lag by killing half of your population? :) :P
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: brads3 on April 10, 2018, 05:50:56 AM
vacation?? in the middle of this long winter even. where are you going? hope you have a good time.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 10, 2018, 05:59:01 AM
@Nilla Do you want me to "take care" of @brads3 so he stops annoying you?
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 12, 2018, 07:33:14 AM
Is @Nilla taking a break from the forum? I'm worry about her right now. :(
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Gatherer on April 12, 2018, 08:44:21 AM
She said she was going on a vacation.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Nilla on April 20, 2018, 09:57:58 AM
Yes! I was on vacation in Egypt, at the Red Sea. Warm temperatures and warm water is good for my bad bones. I needed that after the long winter we had this year.  As we went it was -2 C here, but it looks like we brought the Egyptian heat home with us. It's suddenly summer temperatures! :)
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: brads3 on April 20, 2018, 12:05:20 PM
glad to hear you enjoyed your vacation.
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: Turis on April 20, 2018, 12:08:10 PM
Finally!

Are you ready for more teasing? ;) :P
Title: Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 12
Post by: RedKetchup on April 20, 2018, 12:39:01 PM
very sweet vacations :)