Author Topic: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman  (Read 4208 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2017, 05:34:43 AM »
To the warehouse. I think it's not bad to leave the ore (and especially firewood) outside the warehouse. You have to think a bit more about a good location with mines close, but that will rarely be a problem.  But I would like to separate textiles and metals. In this game I have 2 tailors close to the warehouse and 2 close to barns in the "sheep area". The warehouse vendor is quite unreliable; sometimes he ignores the wool; the warehouse is empty and the coat production in the center is bad. Sometimes he has a fancy on wool; the warehouse is full, the barns close to the other tailors are quite empty and the production of those tailors is bad. It's quite random. The production would be more realable, if there was a separate textile warehouse or no warehouse for textiles at all.

It's a pity about the nomads. I had the idea of giving the iron man mode a second chance; taking a lot of nomads at the beginning, no farming and no herbalist. I haven't tested the influence of a bad health and I really like the thought, that health has an impact on the gameplay. I would also like that happiness had a larger impact. Anyhow the ironman mode isn't that difficult. It's easier than playing without schools, similar to taking a lot of nomads.

This will be the last pictures from this settlement. The three first pictures show, why you can't really rely on farming, if you play with a harsh climate.

First picture

A cold summer. It's July and the temperature is dropping, august had frost.

Second picture

The same fields a very mild summer. But it might give you some trouble as well; winter's coming fast and the time might be too short to harvest all.

Third picture

Production numbers. The year before was cold, but far from as bad as on the first picture. I estimate the average harvest on each field/orchard is 200-220. Year 83 I guess it was less than 50.

Fourth picture

Something to cheer you up, if everything works too smooth!  ;D :o

Fifth picture

Watch out!

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2017, 01:25:28 PM »
Thanks again for your testing and suggestions @Nilla! You are right, it would be nice to separate textiles from metals but it would cause other storage problems. I'm satisfied with the flagging in this mod under the limited conditions and the main category of materials is a necessary evil. A couple of new flags would open the door to a better gameplay.

The ironman mode I did not want to cancel. It was not working as starting condition. I made a separate mod and increased the difficulty. Call me sick but it would not deserve this name in combination with a vanilla game for example if not +100% required food and clothes. ;D

It would be very interesting to see this mode in a Nordic game. An advantage of this solution is that you can play it with all start conditions and also with other mods like CC or DS Village. Download here.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2017, 02:13:07 PM »
Call me sick but it would not deserve this name in combination with a vanilla game for example if not +100% required food and clothes. ;D

WOW! That's a challenge! A crazy challenge! I will try it. But not at once. I've started another crazy challenge. I have a "new" computer and installed Banished new. That means, that I have no achievements, but I will make them all in one game. I made it once before. It was one of the best games I made. It's hard but possible. Most of the achievements is no big deal to make together. The one that messes things up, is the "Mountain Men": everything has to be done on a small mountain map.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride and Orinnon - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2017, 05:32:34 AM »
I'm making a small brake in my vanilla game. I'm on my way to get the achievements. The hard start is done. I managed to collect a bigger store from the start this time, so the years after this picture worked without any big problems. I'm building a trading economy now and will go for 400 (One with Nature), 600 and 900 inhabitants, when I return to this game. But first I want to test the new ironman!

I guess my friend @Tom Sawyer want to know, if the hardest possible conditions are possible, so "Harsh" climate, "Survivors" it is. I think "Nomads" is even harder, but I don't dare to test that option yet. As always, when I test an unusual hard start, I kill some people, before I find a start that works. The "normal" start when you play survivors with a harsh climate, is to build a house: They would freeze to death faster than starve, so food can wait. But that's not how it works here. They need more food and they need it fast. First attempt; starvation!  :'(

New strategy; first build the smallest barn, send 1 hunter to hunt the closest flock reindeer, than the house. I was a bit unlucky and didn't pay attention: The builders started to build the house. I used 5 builders and used the priority tool for the barn but no one wanted to build it. I realized too late, that there must have been a bush of blueberries on the spot, where I put the small barn. The basked stood there and since there was no place to carry it into, the barn couldn't be built; again starvation!  :'( :-[

Third attempt; barn, hunter, house; this time better located. The close deer flock was big. 7 reindeer slaughtered. Everyone could eat as much meat as they pleased; no one starved. The freeze icon just appeared, as the house was done, but everyone could get warm fast enough. Start managed.  :) But this joy didn't last many years.  :(  I choose a map, as I use to; if the starting position seems reasonable, I'll take it. The problem in this case; there were 6 adults and 5 rather young children. The couple who took the first house had one child from the start and two more were born in the following few years. Even if I waited some years, to build houses for the other families (first tool- and clothes production), there were too many children to feed for the 6 adults. The food storage, that wasn't that bad the first years dropped. I was hoping, that the oldest children who were 8, 5, 5 from the start, soon would become adults and help out. But that too takes longer, until they are 12; too late to save the situation. I stopped the game before anyone starved but I'm sure, it wouldn't have worked this way; 7 adults , one of them uneducated, couldn't support 8 children.  :-\

What could be done? I can think of a few possibilities to manage the start.

1. Choose a map with more older children.
2. Take nomads very early but without building any houses for them. We don't want any new small children.
3. Only build 1 house until some of the children are getting adults.
4. Use another mod with houses for smaller families.

I think all possibilities could work. The important thing will be, not to have too many children/students compared to adults, and also keep in mind, that an uneducated "is worth" 75% of an educated as producer. I don't really like to have a lot of homeless people a long time. The idea of taking a lot of nomads, let them work to feed the "original" children but not allowing them to have any themself, not even giving them a home. No! Not a nice policy.  :-\ :( This option is hard enough, so I choose what seemed to be the easiest alternative: Use the "Forest outpost". It also has another advantage; the small workshop. OK, I admit it might be a little "cheaty" in a hard game, but I will use it anyway. You will not need any large blacksmiths or tailors for a long time. I guess, the population will stay small for quite a while. You can also locate the big buildings better; close to mines/sheep/warehouse, not be forced to use the starting position. I will also shameless use the other smaller buildings from @kid1293. I concider to take nomads, so I've loaded his tiny mod. I will use all possibilities!  :-[

The map I first opened had a promising starting position, only 2 children, 5 and 4 years old. I think it's good to have few children from the start. It would have been better, if they were older, but this will do. I've only played 6 years but it looks much better than my last attempt. I have good hopes, that it could work; at least for some time.  ;D


Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2017, 10:57:59 AM »
Sure. I want to know. :)

It seems you can manage these extrem conditions too. I did not try it so much but thought it will be the end of the difficulty range and not possible under the hardest map and start conditions. And what a brutal strategy, Haha. To keep nomads as slaves to feed the "original" citizen and not to allow them to get children.^^ They also will die first when food is low because they have to take the rest from the barn after your greedy citizens have carried all at home. Seems people become cruel under cruel conditions!^^

I also think it is cheaty to crack the ironman by using mods like Tiny and to add a lot of nomads. But why not. I find it interesting to play with it and to look how it works. Probably without helping mods it would be impossible on this map. But who knows.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2017, 06:55:38 AM »
I'm pretty sure too, it has to be the end of difficulties. It's hard. As you can see; it still works, even without any cruel slavery! But only thanks to all the small buildings. But you said something @Tom Sawyer; the word "impossible". That triggers something! I guess you have noticed it before and used that word deliberately! ;) Maybe I have to give it a try; iron man without any other mods than the North. But in that case; it has to be called "Iron woman".  ;D

You said, they need double food and double clothes but I also have the impression, that they also need more tools than usual. Is that impression right or just a feeling, that comes, because I have to produce so much food, that the time for other things is so limited?

You may see, that I'm building a school. I have decided to educate all children and take the longer time to get more productive adults. I think it will pay off. I have taken 2 batches (=couples) of nomads. I will take some from time to time, but not too many; maybe letting 1/3 of the workforce be uneducated, not much more. And I give houses to all nomads. The first couple even got a big Russian house! ;D The only one in the settlement! The reason was that the woman was 39 years old as she arrived, too old to fill the house with many mouths to feed. In fact, she didn't get any baby at all. Nomads have to "prove themself worth" working one summer before they become a house, and obvious, then she was too old.

You may see, that in the few years between year 7 and 13, I have started to replace the small buildings with larger, more permanent ones. At the beginning I only used the instant tools, now I still send more or less everyone out in the forests to collect wild food and herbs in summer and one or other unlucky reindeer, that's straying into the village, may be taken down, but otherwise I use the permanent buildings.

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2017, 11:00:17 AM »
No slavery is nice to hear and your probation time sounds Ok to me. But with 39 it was her last chance to get a child and you let her sleep alone in the forest until she is too old and only then give her a house? This is cruel too!^^

I also think the early school will pay off. Probably they would fail without education. Tool production is unchanged. So this feeling comes from the difficulty in general. Your food graph looks much more interesting than in your last game where it was going straight upwards. This chart here I would describe as it has not decided yet in which direction it wants to go. I'm curious.

And for your next adventure you can use Ironwoman.pkm;D


Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2017, 05:28:19 AM »
The name "Ironwoman" pleases me! :) I hope there are no additional mean things! ;) Of cause I will give it a try, in any case.  I have a small suggestion, to make quite a big difference between the options "ironman" and "ironwoman", with what I think not much work: I have one big issue playing "ironman". It's the real time aging. It's boring! The dynamic of the game gets too slow. It is right, that in one way it makes the game more difficult; the children/students stay unproductive longer but it also makes it easier to control the population growth; it takes a long time until people die of old age, giving (unplanned) room for new couples. A controlled growth is very important, when they need so much food. So I think the one difficulty matches the other.

Anyway; I must disappoint you @Tom Sawyer; the food graph is starting to look like it use to.  :-[ ;D Not quite as extreme as in my other games, but after I managed to purchase some seed potatoes, it looks safe. The production and the consumption are about the same and I can also buy some food, so the store grows, not fast but safe enough, to let some of the young adults move out, even as their mothers are young enough to have more babies. You can see, 3 newborn at the same time; that increases the demand for food a great deal but I'm confident, that it could be managed.

I'm still micromanaging a lot; changing between summer- (food) and winterwork (building, clearing land, firewood, tools, clothing, filling market and trading port) but not much during the season. You can see the content of my trading port. I'm selling all venison and the surplus of logs, charcoal and herbs. There are also some salmon in the port. I don't sell much, but it's convenient to use as "lose change" if a few units are missing. I haven't barter traded for some time. It's quite obvious, that the merchants have been richer; bringing more coins. Do they also arrive more often?

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2017, 09:27:58 AM »
Haha No, same conditions for women. But I thought ironman should run in real time. So I have to make a third version for ironwoman on speed? ;D

Your chart runs really good now. But it still looks nervous. I don't trust the trend.^^ The merchants don't arrive more often but they have more money at the beginning.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2017, 03:39:06 AM »
Do you trust the trend now, @Tom Sawyer;D

Again, I was very lucky! I cursed myself, because I was so pleased about the seed potatoes, that I forgot to order the important sheep. But I was happy to see, that this merchant was a real skilled businessman. He saw the needs of the settlement, as he visited the first time and the second time, not only brought some sheep but also apple- and barley seeds!

I also feel safe enough to let all adult couples have houses. I still stick to the small 4 person cottages but I'm thinking of building some larger soon, too. The ratio of uneducated (now 65%) works. It's sometimes a bit annoying when the uneducated choose professions, where I don't want them. The miller is one of them. There are 5 houses with educated closer but, no! One uneducated seems to have assigned himself to that profession, no matter what.  :o :( Unless you have a surplus of workers, there's not much use to run the mill with an uneducated miller. Despite this, I will take more nomads from time to time. They will no longer be necessary workforce. Just a way to speed things up a little bit.




Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2017, 07:27:42 AM »
Yes, that's the moment to say... Damn why the hell I did not buy this stock.^^

Maybe you were lucky with your farm supplies but (I learned a new English phrase) Fortune favours the bold. Or so. :)

The mill is also productive with uneducated millers but of course it is annoying and uneducated guys really should work as doctor or teacher. Funny game. Sometimes I enabled/disabled a building so long until an educated citizen found this workplace but that's annoying too.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2017, 07:35:13 AM »
Yes, this stock isn't as bad as expected.  ;D

Yea, you're right even an uneducated makes a small profit, but in this part of the game it's too small. There's so few people, so there are better alternatives for him to make his living, like chopping trees or making charcoal to sell, even go fishing if I would need the food fast.

Offline brads3

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2017, 08:46:33 AM »
i get the problem the other way. the uneducated go farm and my food production goes down.if enough uneducated banis go farm, my average yield per field goes way down. usually happens just before the game sends me a huge group of nomads.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2017, 04:16:52 AM »
I hope, you didn't invest in that stock after all @Tom Sawyer! ;) Now the graph looks very different. I also see no chance, that it's going to change to the better. I made some experimenting; building more and larger houses. As you can see; not very successful. Too many children were born. I can say for sure; 22 adults can't support 17 children on "ironman/ironwoman"!

I will go on and see what happens, but I'm pretty sure, that it will get worse. As it is now around 3000 food is missing every year. In summer everyone except the teacher produce food. I could maybe build a third fisher to use in winter, but we also need some other work done, so I can't produce much more food. Students will graduate to increase the workforce, but unfortunately more children will be born too, at least at the same speed. Unlike at the beginning, it will be no use, to take nomads, to increase the number of adults. Now there are 3-4 nomads each time; families with children. Of cause I could "fake demolish" some houses, where children could be born and throw the families out in the woods or at least let them change houses, so no young family live in a large house. But this is an experiment, so I will not.

Of cause, food merchants could help but with only one trading port and no orders of food (so far), I guess it will not be any 3000 food each year. One more port would also not help. I don't have enough goods to sell or enough workers to fill a second port.

If anyone give "ironman/ironwoman" a try; never let the number of children+students be more than of the adults. With that "rule of thumb" it might work. But as soon as there's more unproductive; there will be trouble. It is well possible, to have a game with few children; just build very few houses. But unfortunately, it makes an already slow game, even slower. As I said; that's my biggest issue with this game: It's too slow, to really catch my interest. After this game, I will give the "Nomads" a try. I'm not sure, that it could work, with that many uneducated. But at least, it's not boringly slow.  ;D

Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2017, 01:45:24 PM »
Why different? Looks to me like a perfect chance to buy more stocks of your little iron company. I will order some more. Only about experimenting management better not to write in your report. ;D

Its obviously an effect of harder conditions to make the game slower. A pity and how to solve with always uneducated nomads. More than to 75% we cannot increase their quality I think. To lower the birthrate would be not a problem directly in the ironman mod. Also a lower maximum age for more "dynamic".^^ And would it be a way to use boarding houses for less children? But also only a way to slow down.