Author Topic: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman  (Read 4202 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2017, 02:44:03 PM »
i wondered about a boarding house for NILLA too. it would use less firewood. i wonder if proper time would help. it slows the game down but spacing the kids out might be beneficial in you. it would give you time to build supplies and food.

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1802
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2017, 05:34:55 AM »
Youīre a clever man @Tom Sawyer! I mean buying more shares! (Well, if I think; not only that)  ;D

Thanks for your suggestions, guys!

To better micromangament: I think I make as much as possible. There could maybe be a possibility to produce more trading goods and buy more food, instead of producing as much food as I could. Some other productions are more efficient, than food producing. The problem is; the change takes time, (building more trading ports and filling them with goods) and in that time, I canīt produce that much food and many would starve to death. Also some of the more profitable productions lose much of their profit with uneducated workers, so a trade based economy is harder, when the population is not 100% educated.

To boardinghouses: The thought has crossed my mind, too but itīs not a good idea. You are right, @brads3; it would need a little less firewood, but it would not give less children. In a normal boarding house (I havenīt used your upper floor inn enough to tell, if itīs different) a family gets 3 children, in a the same "speed" as normal. Since I`ve built a mixture of houses for 2 and 3 children, in the end it would give more children. The one thing that leads to less children with boarding houses is, that no new couples are founded. But as long as I donīt build any new houses and no house is free, when a couple dies of old age, no new couple could move together either.

And @brads3; "ironman" includes a real time aging mod. Thatīs part of the difficulties; the children stay unproductive longer, than in a "vanilla speed" but it sure makes the game slow. Could anything be done, to better fit the "ironman" conditions? I agree @Tom Sawyer; reduce the uneducated penalty is not a good option. Could anything be done, that nomads have no (or at least less) children, when they arrive? Iīm not sure about a lower birthrate. Itīs easy to calculate the population growth, the way it is now: You build a new house and know, that 2 or 3 (depending on the house) children will be born the next few years. It wouldnīt change much, if it took 5 years to the next child to born. It would be the same number, just harder to control. What would change things to the better, would be if the children became students and adults earlier. 12 years to be student and then at least 4 years in school (if the students doesnīt live very close to the school it often takes 6-7 years). I would reduce this. Maybe also the time in school. The age for getting the first child could be set a bit later, but Iīm not sure, that the maximum age of getting children should be set lower than 40.

I will think a bit more about possibilities to change the "aging parameters" the next years of this game; as the original settlers start to die of old age. Yes! Opposit to what I thought, as I wrote my last entry; there will be more years. The food situation has recovered. Several good things happened in combination: 4 food merchants in a row, 2 very mild years and no cold, I also forgot my 3 children, born at the same time, who together with another 2 youngsters became adults, the same time as only 3 children were born. 27/15 is a big difference to 22/17 (adults/children+students). The last very varm summer, I even produced more food, than I used! :)

Now, I have decided to go on with this game in a way that make sense; building some, but not to many houses and also no more small forest houses for a 4 person family. Iīm not sure about nomads. Iīll keep the well, at least for some time, but maybe I will replace it with a marketplace footprint somewhere, to get nomads in a "vanilla way". The population slowly reach a number, where the game isnīt that extremely slow anymore. Thatīs a good thing for an impatient person! :)

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2017, 07:11:41 AM »
is this china??? slave labor at 15,no kids til 25,i kid/family rule,kill em off at 50.i wonder if no building the school so early would have gave you an advantage.you would have extra workers,yes lower production but 75% of 10 is still moe than 100% of 5.i would think with the game being slower,it would be easier to micro-manage them.i understand you are in extreme conditions,but how much foor is 1 person making? shouldn't 1 be producing enough food for 3 or more? say 1 food person per family be it hunter,fishing,or farming?
   you did find yourself a challenge. just think how it would be if you had your normal aging speed. triple the growth and usage in 1 year of food production.

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2017, 03:16:33 PM »
Could you solve your nomad crashing problem @Nilla? Would be too bad for this interesting game here.

The current values in ironman are working/school at 12, marriage and children at 16 until 40 and maximum age round about 70. We can set 12 to 10 how it is more usual in Banished and/or decrease time in school. And I tend to change the wooden and stone huts to 4 inhabitants. To get a relation to other houses like the red cottage which needs more space. So a 4 x 4 for 4 people and a 4 x 6 for 6 people. Then we have 2-child-households for better growth control via early game huts. Is just a thought.

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1802
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #34 on: February 07, 2017, 02:59:19 AM »
Yes, @Tom Sawyer, I had no more crashes, after I went back to a save before I deleted the well. I have played a bit more, but there isn't much to tell. At the moment, things goes on as they should. I have the population growth under control. The food production is alright. Average there's less than 1000 food "missing" each year and that's no problem to buy. Goods years, I produce about as much as my people need. The rate productive/unproductive is around 2/1. That works fine. I even had to build more barns to store all food!  ;D

@brads3; this is the North; harsh climate. Ironman means a Banni needs 200 food instead of 100. Only few food producers produce 400 food. Hunters and herdsmen are the only one, who could produce much more. Fisher can produce about that amount or a bit more, if the location of the fisher is good and the workers educated, but hardly any others, like farmers and gatherers. And to your calculation about the school. I calculate this way. A student spend around 5 years in school. You lose 5 years of production. After that he works 50 years. If he's uneducated he loses 25% each year. It takes 20 years until he has cached up with an uneducated but after that it's only win. So, a school pays off, if you can manage the to survive the "hard years" and wait. And you know, @brads3 the slavery here isn't worse, than if you're forcing the 10 years old to work instead of going to school (and maybe even have children)! But we already knew; Banished is a cruel game! ;)

The screenshot shows my "spring staffing". In July the builder, woodcutter, charcoal burner, tailor and trader will have to leave their tasks and go to pick apples. When the harvest is done, they will go back. The farmers will also be blacksmiths, vendors, and what I need most of miller, miner, smelter, brickmaker, stonecutter(clay). You can also see, that my stores mainly contain salmon. I sell venison and mutton. That's like always playing the North on harsh! Proteins, proteins, proteins; everything else is harder.

Offline Abandoned

  • Advisor
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1595
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #35 on: February 07, 2017, 06:42:32 AM »
Glad map continues despite crash problem, good that it is solved. :)

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #36 on: February 07, 2017, 07:34:40 AM »
For me it looks like we finally found the right balance for you @Nilla. ;D

Only the early game stagnation we have to solve in real time. And you captured a nice scene of your village. I would like to see more views from this perspective. Did you spend some thoughts in visuals or is it just a beauty follows function thing?

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1802
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2017, 06:32:49 AM »
@Tom Sawyer, you know me. No thought about aesthetics. It's your buildings that makes it look good, even the way I "throw them out" on the map with only functional aspects . ;)

I didn't say anything to your suggestions of reducing the family size of the vanilla houses. It's alright with me. I find it's important to have the possibility to build houses of different size, especially if you play a real time aging mod. Of cause it would be nicer with houses of different sizes in the same style; here Nordic cottages for bigger and smaller families. But I know, it's a lot of work. Besides there are some other really nice mods, we can use for this.

I've bin thinking a bit more, how a real time mod could be constructed to work. 12 years to become a student/adult without school is too high. Look at the first picture. This young woman moved in with this man as she was 16 or 17. Now she's 22 and still a student. You can see the school. It's not that far away. No one lives far away, so it wasn't different, before she moved either. I find, that unless the school is very far away (big map, many students, few schools) everyone should be graduated, when they are 20. I have tested most of the real time mods and to be honest; I don't like anyone of them and I don't know how it could be improved. There are small differences but nothing that really solves the disadvantages. I've said it before; these weird "vanilla aging" has its reason. It gives the game a good flow. I would very much to test "ironwomen" with "vanilla aging", then we can discuss a bit more about the other parameters of a "real time" that works as good as possible.

The game goes on in the same way, not much new to tell. I've started to be a bit more "daring"; increasing the number of new houses and with that, also new babies. I've also taken a few more nomads. We'll see if I can mange. I have a plan to increase the trade a bit more and eventually build a second trading port.

By the way; thesecond picture is also a small reminder; if you return to Scandinavia from your Russian excursions; why not a small "sjukstuga"?
« Last Edit: February 10, 2017, 06:44:04 AM by Nilla »

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2017, 09:54:09 AM »
NILLA, you are too used to the speed growth. TOM is trying to slow you down and make the games more intereting and balance. it is a juggle. when the propertime mod was developed  it was tweaked a few times. i thought we did get the upper school age lowered.here in the US. kids start school at 6. to me i want them out of school by 15 or 16 in game.plus the child-bearing years was expanded longer. it is slow growth for the early yrs but then with the longer child-bearing the population does pick up.those early years give us time to get food stocks ahead. to me the goal with the aging mods is to better balance the game. the old way the food graphs yoyo much more and has bigger drops.the way the iron game looks .i'd be afraid of outgrowing the resources.

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2017, 04:07:29 PM »
Yes @brads3, I always try to support real time and to get a better flow without this strange high speed aging. I mean, it's a simulation with seasons which affects farming/economy as well as visuals and ambient sounds and even crops and livestock grow in real time. Only citizens are from another planet.^^

But for special wishes a special edition @Nilla. IronwomanSpeed.pkm

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2017, 05:35:40 PM »
should we take bets on how many times before she survives?? i say 4

Offline Nilla

  • Champion
  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1802
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2017, 04:37:08 AM »
@brads3, I know I'm an impatient person. I want things to happen all the time; new things, otherwise it gets boring, not more interesting. I don't find it harder to build up a storage in "vanilla aging". Even if the population grows faster, the children also become adults faster. You just have to follow the growth by building enough producers. That's what I like to do. That's my personality. Not everyone is the same. Your way is fine, too. So, I'm looking forward to test the "ironwomanspeed". I will in a few days. I will go on with this game a little longer. I didn't play yesterday and I want to see the consequences of the many young children in this part of the game.

I'm not sure I understand your suggestion for a bet @brads3. Is it survive more than 4 years? In that case, of cause I will bet against it. If I manage 60 years in a real age mod. I will manage at least 60/4= 15 in a "normal" speed, probably longer! ;) What's the stake of the bet?  ;D

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2017, 08:09:29 AM »
no i was thinking 4 attempts of starting and killing off the banis.i remember a few games it took you a few attempts before you got a good plan to manage the town so it did not have big die offs. the impossable start took you a few,and i thought you restarted the "iron" about 2 or 3 times.

Offline brads3

  • Banished Expert
  • *****
  • Posts: 1444
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2017, 08:26:29 AM »
i haven't had a chance to play in a couple weeks since i loaded the new CC version. i had to chase gremlins after the load. finally i did find the mod that was crashing me. i ws able to do some testing on some mods yesterday.
  yep,i like being different. but being crazy is fun.lol. but i do enjoy reading abandoned stories and see how different mods look. it is neat to see how everyone plays. makes for a better game that we aren't forced to play the same or get to the same goal.more freedom.
   i was working on playing with the north and cc in 1 map. wanted to build every different building in 1 map. it was going to take many months. the game was functioning though there were some glitches. with several new huge mods added the last couple weeks,i am unsure and debating with myself on which way i want to play and build.

Offline Tom Sawyer

  • Modders
  • Architect
  • *****
  • Posts: 817
Re: Nilla, Firestelluride - testing the North, Ironman
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2017, 08:28:40 AM »
@brads3 I accept the bet and I think she will manage it right from the first start. But after some years she will get problems because the speed aging people are dying down before they can build up a working settlement under these conditions. ;D