Author Topic: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods  (Read 4664 times)

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Offline Nilla

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Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« on: March 01, 2017, 05:47:26 AM »
I started my new game yesterday. To be honest, I started two games and I have decided to start a third today. Opposite to what happens, when I test @Tom Sawyer´s mods, I didn't kill my population. I made other mistakes. I'll come to that.

When I test mods new to me, I want to test them "pure", if possible without any other mods. I also try to avoid vanilla buildings. I find it a good way to get to know a new mod. In my first attempt, I only loaded the 5 mods, you have published here on WOB @Necora, no others. My first settlement's name is Mingsport. It wasn't hard to find a suitable map. I just wanted at least one lake, to be able to play with the jetty parts and some land not too far away, to test the different forests. I play medium size, valley, hard start (I don't want any vanilla barn).

When I test new mods, I hate to mess with the production numbers, because of uneducated workers. There are some elder children, so I start with a school. After that, we have to go for some food production; hard start (no seeds) means to me a gatherer and a fisher. A lot of logs are also needed at the beginning, so a forester must be built early and before we can build any houses for our citizens, we need a woodchopper.

First impressions:

Your school is small but very nice looking. It's perfectly right to me, that it can educate less children than a vanilla school.

In your pine forest mod, there are 3 different kind of forests; the vanilla, pine and maple; different set of trees, but also different resources, that could be "picked" by gatherers. That's a really good idea. Makes perfect sense. I guess, it's like hardwood in the CC mod; you have to get rid of the vanilla trees first, then you can start to use the alternative. So, first it has to be a vanilla gatherer and a vanilla forester. The buildings look nice; they are small. That's perfect. These buildings have no real function, they are just there, to mark the active area. I find the vanilla versions too big. A small tent for the gatherer; couldn't be better. I don't know, if a forester would need a tower; maybe to watch out for forest fires. But to make it this way, has one big advantage in Banished; it's easy to find in a dense forest.

The output for one worker looks similar to the vanilla version. I only have one criticism: You can use 2 workers in each site. The radius is too big for that. I'll explain what I mean : A vanilla forester has a working area with a diameter of about 60 tiles. It looks like yours is 6 tiles smaller. 60 tiles gives an area of 2826 or 706 for each worker, 54 tiles gives an area of 2289 or 1145 each. With the same output for each forester, it means, that the area will be much less efficient used with your forester, than a vanilla. The way I play Banished, logs are always rare. Usually I have to buy some, to be able to build all I want. With your foresters, it will be worse.

Maybe this is intentional; that your foresters in the pine/maple forests use the area more efficient and you want to "promote" them. If it is that way, it's fine with me. If not; I would concider to make some changes. There are a few possibilities; to increase the number of workers, reduce the area; (2 foresters working the same area as his vanilla college, would mean a diameter of about 42 tiles) or increase the productivity of each forester.

I have one question to your small, very sweet looking shore fisher: When you build it, no active area is shown. Does this mean, that there is none; that you can build them close to eachother without losing any productivity? It's hard to say this early in the game, but it looks like a shore fisher is a bit less productive, than a vanilla fisher. If there's no active area, it's good that way.

I love this storage on the shore, where the bags hang in the water. Is it a historical way to store food in your neighborhood? I have never seen something similar. Can you tell more about it? What material are the bags? How did they prevent animals like beavers and otters from stealing any of it? To my knowledge, they are quite resourceful. I find such things very interesting. I built it in the wrong direction, so people behave a bit weird as they place things there, but now I know, how to put it and I hope, I will only make this mistake once.

This will be a long thread!  :-\ I read somewhere, that @Abandoned said, that if she would have to write in a foreign language, her stories would be short. I mean it's the opposite! In Swedish, I could say the same things much shorter. It's easier to use more words, when you don't find the perfect expression.

Now to my reasons to abandon this village so early:

First, I made a mistake; I didn't see, that the Pine Lumber Cutter also makes firewood, so I thought, I had to use the vanilla woodchopper. This is one of my least favourite vanilla buildings. When it's located beside your small lovely houses, it doesn't fit at all; too big, too rough. What about your buildings? They are small, but are they too small? I'm not sure. If we look at a picture with some people, they look small, but on the other hand, not so small, that they look like miniature buildings. And there are other houses from @kid1293 and @Discrepancy of the same size or even smaller, so why not. It only has room for a small family and can be upgraded. I will say more, what I think about this, when I've played a little more.

The ugly woodchopper, together with the fact, that I didn't find any market place in your mod, made that I decided to add @kid1293´s tiny mod to my game. (I think a vanilla market place, would fit as bad as the chopper to the neat buildings.)

I will tell about this second attempt later.

First picture

School, gatherer, forester are built. I put the footprint of the vanilla forester beside your. The difference isn't big.

Second picture

The sweet looking shore fisher and the interesting (but unfortunately wrong built) store. I like the grayish old version best.

Third picture

To compare the size; the small school, together with the vanilla chopper and a footprint of the vanilla school. There are also some people shown.


Offline Abandoned

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2017, 06:46:02 AM »
@Nilla  :) this will be interesting and I am sure a big help to Necora

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2017, 10:20:40 AM »
Now to my second attempt. This settlement got the random name Ludowickliff. I did no changes of the settings, except loading the mod "Tiny" from @kid1293.

In this game too, there were a few older children, so again I started with the school, then gatherer, forester, a fisher and woodchopper from "tiny"(I didn't find your chopper @Necora, until I looked for, how to produce lumber a bit later in this game). I think, a normal fisherman produces a bit more food, than the shore fisher and you can put a second fisherman in it, so it's convenient at the beginning, not having to think so much about building additional food producers, when there's so many other things you want to do. That's the reason I choose it here, but I planned to build some shore fisher later.

At the time of the first picture, I've built 3 small houses. The last family will get one, too as soon as the blacksmith is built. Of cause, I like the red house very much. ;) But the green fit the forest and the "natural" in the front of the picture has a very nice "tarred" patina, that appeals to me a lot. I like the storage cellars, that could be added to the houses. There is one on the back side of the red house. Unfortunately I put it on the wrong side. It blocks the window a bit. I looked more for function than for aesthetics; it's closer to put food from the wood in it, on that side of the house. To look perfect; it should better be put on the side without windows. Again, I built this interesting shore storage. This time in the right direction, but it's not perfect here either: The entrance is a bit low , looks dug into the shore. I think it ought to be put further out in the water. (You can see it better on my second picture). One question to this. Does this storage "steal" area from the fisher, like a trading port would, in that position, or is the part over the lake rather "ghosted"?

The storage cellars could hold a lot of food for it's size. But it's not unrealistic; there is a lot of space available in the ground, that we don't see and the building costs are not so low (20 logs, 20 stones) but maybe I would have increased the work, that's needed to build it. It's a lot of effort to dig in the ground with handtools only and it would balance the high storage capacity better. One question to the storage: Do the other two larger shore storage, also store food or are they like the Pine Storage Barn?

Now I will tell you why I gave this settlemet up after only a few years. Some buildings need lumber. I started to look into how to make this and found two possibilities; the Pine Lumber Cutter and the Dock Lumber Cutter. If you look at the Dock Lumber Cutter, the menu says, there are 3 F-key variations. I can find only1; the footprint on the second picture. Because the menu says, that the Pine Lumber Cutter cuts lumber slow, I chose the dock version. I built it and as I opened the menu I saw two things:

First; this is a production building, that uses one raw material (logs) to produce another (lumber). The vanilla game and as far as I can remember, all other mods of that kind use another menu, where you can see how much raw material is stored in the building. Your menu @Necora is used for fishers, hunters, foresters.....; sites that produce something without raw material input. Why does this matter? Normally not much. But sometimes, especially at the beginning of a game or if you are short of some material, it's important to know. Example: In the beginning of a game, you need tools, but you don't have much iron on your stockpiles and need to know, if the blacksmith just fetched enough for the tools you desperately need or if there's none and you have to send some workers out to "pick" some at once. And to me, when I test new mods, I want to examine the balancing; productivity and profit. I look, how much raw material there is in the building. When some of it is gone, I look how much more of the product is made. This way, I get some numbers; for example 1 log gives 4 firewood. There is no way I can do this for lumber. Now I don't know, if you use this menu only here or for every production building. Your nice little blacksmith and green tailor have the other. If you use it on more sites, I would very much want to have a list of these numbers.( like 1 log -> 4 firewood.) Educated is enough. I can ask you for each site I build, but a list of all of your buildings would be fine (maybe also added to the description of the mod on the download headline).

But this was not the reason, that I abandoned  Ludowickliff. There was another strange thing on that menu: the limit showed 999999. As I wanted to change this, the game crashed. I think I know why. I hadn't upgraded the game to 1.7.0. I´m a bit lazy and it's still a beta version, so I wanted to wait until it's "official". This way I hoped to get away with upgrading just once. And it looks like it works in the latest part of @Abandoned´s Smallville story. But I don't think it does, if you want to use materials sorted into the new categories. Now I have upgraded and will make a third attempt to start a game with these mods tonight.



Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2017, 10:32:32 AM »
Hi @Nilla I wrote a long reply to your first post but my internet decided to it didn't want to share the post and I lost the whole darn thing. I'll reply to these this afternoon once I finish work!

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2017, 10:42:21 AM »
Bad luck! I live "in the middle of nowhere" so losing long texts because of bad internet connection is not unfamiliar to me. After it happened a few times, I use the "Save as Draft" function from time to time, if I write longer pieces. At least not everything is lost that way.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2017, 12:01:14 PM »
NILLA,did you check the number of people per house? originally some of the houses were set to only 3 banis.how is the scale of the woodland buildings between the houses,school,etc?? my computer is picky about where it will download from lately so i have not ran checks on these sets since the community icon came about.

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2017, 02:17:06 PM »
@Nilla the internet here is terrible. OK let's try this again. I'll reply to the first post first.

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When I test mods new to me, I want to test them "pure", if possible without any other mods. I also try to avoid vanilla buildings. I find it a good way to get to know a new mod. In my first attempt, I only loaded the 5 mods, you have published here on WOB @Necora, no others. My first settlement's name is Mingsport. It wasn't hard to find a suitable map. I just wanted at least one lake, to be able to play with the jetty parts and some land not too far away, to test the different forests. I play medium size, valley, hard start (I don't want any vanilla barn).

Mingsport? Did you come up with that or was it randomly generated? Ming in British English is a slang word for something disgusting... so it is hilarious if the game came up with it an funny of you did, if you meant to or not! There is a RL town down the road from me here in NS called 'Malignant Cove' also not an appealing sounding name for a fishing port! Although, it is just down the road from 'Doctors Brook'. Some name combination are so funny.

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Your school is small but very nice looking. It's perfectly right to me, that it can educate less children than a vanilla school.

This set was aimed at smaller towns and start ups, so I wanted to keep the buildings small and capacity/production low, but also build costs low. Always open to suggestions on how any of these can be improved.

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In your pine forest mod, there are 3 different kind of forests; the vanilla, pine and maple; different set of trees, but also different resources, that could be "picked" by gatherers. That's a really good idea. Makes perfect sense. I guess, it's like hardwood in the CC mod; you have to get rid of the vanilla trees first, then you can start to use the alternative.

I'm glad you like this idea. I originally did this set to introduce some forestry items I will need for future chains. I don't like the 'something from nothing' type of buildings (even though that is what the fisheries are) do thought a forester/gatherer combination would do well here. Once I made the pine versions, I decided to add some Canadian food options like the maple, apple, blueberry, and cranberry... stuff that is wild around here. Then decided to do a vanilla version to keep in with the theme, plus I hate the Vanilla buildings for the reasons you also mention, too big and useless.

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So, first it has to be a vanilla gatherer and a vanilla forester. The buildings look nice; they are small. That's perfect. These buildings have no real function, they are just there, to mark the active area. I find the vanilla versions too big. A small tent for the gatherer; couldn't be better. I don't know, if a forester would need a tower; maybe to watch out for forest fires. But to make it this way, has one big advantage in Banished; it's easy to find in a dense forest.

Towers are cool ;) I have no other reason!

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The output for one worker looks similar to the vanilla version. I only have one criticism: You can use 2 workers in each site. The radius is too big for that. I'll explain what I mean : A vanilla forester has a working area with a diameter of about 60 tiles. It looks like yours is 6 tiles smaller. 60 tiles gives an area of 2826 or 706 for each worker, 54 tiles gives an area of 2289 or 1145 each. With the same output for each forester, it means, that the area will be much less efficient used with your forester, than a vanilla. The way I play Banished, logs are always rare. Usually I have to buy some, to be able to build all I want. With your foresters, it will be worse.

Maybe this is intentional; that your foresters in the pine/maple forests use the area more efficient and you want to "promote" them. If it is that way, it's fine with me. If not; I would concider to make some changes. There are a few possibilities; to increase the number of workers, reduce the area; (2 foresters working the same area as his vanilla college, would mean a diameter of about 42 tiles) or increase the productivity of each forester.

I always use the 'more wood per tree' mod. So when I tested these I also realised output of the foresters are low, infact that is one area I don't like in vanilla especially as more buildings are added. I get it is hard, but sometimes too much when you have to clear vast areas to supplement slow foresters. There is no way to increase this, apart from changing the wood production value in the wood template file. There is no work time or work required in the foresters. Even in early game, when you need the wood the most, an extra forester isn't the best answer. Perhaps I will increase the wood per tree in the mod, as well as adding the option of another forester.

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I have one question to your small, very sweet looking shore fisher: When you build it, no active area is shown. Does this mean, that there is none; that you can build them close to eachother without losing any productivity? It's hard to say this early in the game, but it looks like a shore fisher is a bit less productive, than a vanilla fisher. If there's no active area, it's good that way.

Yup, this is based on the apiary example so produces food from 'nothing' only work time and work required. There is no radius, so you can build as many as you want as close as you want.

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I love this storage on the shore, where the bags hang in the water. Is it a historical way to store food in your neighborhood? I have never seen something similar. Can you tell more about it? What material are the bags? How did they prevent animals like beavers and otters from stealing any of it? To my knowledge, they are quite resourceful. I find such things very interesting. I built it in the wrong direction, so people behave a bit weird as they place things there, but now I know, how to put it and I hope, I will only make this mistake once.

I'm not sure about historical, but convenient. Keeps the shellfish alive and fresh. The idea actually came from the method of farming scallops which is basically the same.

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First, I made a mistake; I didn't see, that the Pine Lumber Cutter also makes firewood, so I thought, I had to use the vanilla woodchopper. This is one of my least favourite vanilla buildings. When it's located beside your small lovely houses, it doesn't fit at all; too big, too rough.

I hate the vanilla chopper too! I was not going to have firewood with the lumber cutter at first, production is too slow to make it worth while. But when testing this mod I got annoyed having to build the vanilla chopper each time so reduced the production time of the lumber cutter and added the firewood to it. I didn't want to make a small chopper because there are already plenty available.

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What about your buildings? They are small, but are they too small? I'm not sure. If we look at a picture with some people, they look small, but on the other hand, not so small, that they look like miniature buildings. And there are other houses from @kid1293 and @Discrepancy of the same size or even smaller, so why not. It only has room for a small family and can be upgraded. I will say more, what I think about this, when I've played a little more.

This is hard about making RL buildings in game, we are very restricted by the size of the tiles. It really doesn't help that the bannies are an exact tile tall. I make the doors about as high or slightly higher than a bannie, then build the rest from there trying to keep RL proportions as much as possible. The problem is, as the bannies are an exact square, this often means that buildings come out very squat. I also find vanilla and also some CC buildings are far too large an imposing.

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The ugly woodchopper, together with the fact, that I didn't find any market place in your mod, made that I decided to add @kid1293´s tiny mod to my game. (I think a vanilla market place, would fit as bad as the chopper to the neat buildings.)

Yeah I'll admit there are a few things that can be added. I didn't want to add the market for the same reason as the chopper, Kid did a great job with the small one as did a few others I didn't want to just re make those. But then again, it could do with one in this texture theme, that wouldn't be bad.

Cheers! Next post coming shortly...

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »
@Nilla Now to my second attempt!

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I think, a normal fisherman produces a bit more food, than the shore fisher and you can put a second fisherman in it, so it's convenient at the beginning, not having to think so much about building additional food producers, when there's so many other things you want to do. That's the reason I choose it here, but I planned to build some shore fisher later.

As the shore fishers produce something from nothing, I was worried about over powering them especially as they are so cheep to build. So that is why production is quite low. If it is crazy low I will increase it.

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One question to this. Does this storage "steal" area from the fisher, like a trading port would, in that position, or is the part over the lake rather "ghosted"?

In the case of a vanilla fisher, yes, it will reduce available fishing tiles just like other docks. But not the shore fishers, they have no radius.

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The storage cellars could hold a lot of food for it's size. But it's not unrealistic; there is a lot of space available in the ground, that we don't see and the building costs are not so low (20 logs, 20 stones) but maybe I would have increased the work, that's needed to build it. It's a lot of effort to dig in the ground with handtools only and it would balance the high storage capacity better. One question to the storage: Do the other two larger shore storage, also store food or are they like the Pine Storage Barn?

I like 'hidden' storage like this but yes I can increase the build time. As for the larger dock storages they do both store all food types.

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If you look at the Dock Lumber Cutter, the menu says, there are 3 F-key variations. I can find only1; the footprint on the second picture. Because the menu says, that the Pine Lumber Cutter cuts lumber slow, I chose the dock version. I built it and as I opened the menu I saw two things:

Yeah, I was being presumptious with my menu descriptions! The plan was to add the other F-variants, but I didn't have the time to model them. They will come in the future, when I have time to add more content. I forgot to change the descriptions!
 
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First; this is a production building, that uses one raw material (logs) to produce another (lumber). The vanilla game and as far as I can remember, all other mods of that kind use another menu, where you can see how much raw material is stored in the building. Your menu @Necora is used for fishers, hunters, foresters.....; sites that produce something without raw material input. Why does this matter? Normally not much. But sometimes, especially at the beginning of a game or if you are short of some material, it's important to know. Example: In the beginning of a game, you need tools, but you don't have much iron on your stockpiles and need to know, if the blacksmith just fetched enough for the tools you desperately need or if there's none and you have to send some workers out to "pick" some at once. And to me, when I test new mods, I want to examine the balancing; productivity and profit. I look, how much raw material there is in the building. When some of it is gone, I look how much more of the product is made. This way, I get some numbers; for example 1 log gives 4 firewood. There is no way I can do this for lumber. Now I don't know, if you use this menu only here or for every production building. Your nice little blacksmith and green tailor have the other. If you use it on more sites, I would very much want to have a list of these numbers.( like 1 log -> 4 firewood.) Educated is enough. I can ask you for each site I build, but a list of all of your buildings would be fine (maybe also added to the description of the mod on the download headline).

I've not tried playing around with the building UI too much, my first attempts ended in drastic failure. I will learn how to add the production inventory, it is a good idea for all production buildings.

I'm also working on a spread sheet for all resources etc., but it is taking time. I can tell you that 2 lumber per wood is produced from 1 educated worker. I think this should actually be a bit higher.

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But this was not the reason, that I abandoned  Ludowickliff. There was another strange thing on that menu: the limit showed 999999. As I wanted to change this, the game crashed. I think I know why. I hadn't upgraded the game to 1.7.0. I´m a bit lazy and it's still a beta version, so I wanted to wait until it's "official". This way I hoped to get away with upgrading just once. And it looks like it works in the latest part of @Abandoned´s Smallville story. But I don't think it does, if you want to use materials sorted into the new categories. Now I have upgraded and will make a third attempt to start a game with these mods tonight.

Hopefully this was due to the game update, let me know if it still occurs! I've not been able to replicate any crashes myself.

Cheers and looking forward to the next installment!

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2017, 05:42:45 PM »
playing with a medium climate setting,i usually try to figure about  500 food production per worker. this includes herdsmen,farming,hunters,gatherers,etc. crops i set at 10x10.  you will have good and bad years but that makes a nice round number for an average. of course harsher climates or hard starts will affect that. the mini gatherers also produce less due to the smaller radius. fish and gatheres ,especially the mini or forest outpost mods, are normally on the low end producing at an average of 300-500 per dock or hut.

Offline Abandoned

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2017, 04:25:13 AM »
Regarding poor internet and loss of typing: I have pretty good internet connection but early on I lost several long posts and had to redo.  I tried to save as draft, got message that page had expired or something like that, could not even return to page, lost everything.  To avoid that I have been using Windows Word Pad to type my story chapter off-line, save it, then copy to clipboard.  When I go on-line and can simply paste to post and do spell check.  It works very well that way and I always get a laugh at the suggestions spell check comes up with for the strange Bannie names.  I also then have my stories off-line to review fact and story connections when I do next chapter.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2017, 07:21:35 AM »
I have a feeling this again will be long.  :-\

I thank you for your long comments @Necora. I think, that this could be a very interesting discussion. I also thank you @brads3 for joining in.

First some comments to your comments:

NILLA,did you check the number of people per house? originally some of the houses were set to only 3 banis.how is the scale of the woodland buildings between the houses,school,etc?? my computer is picky about where it will download from lately so i have not ran checks on these sets since the community icon came about.

Yes, the small houses are for families of 3, but it has many positions in the menu, so the game doesn't crash because a larger family moved into it from start.

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Mingsport? Did you come up with that or was it randomly generated? Ming in British English is a slang word for something disgusting... so it is hilarious if the game came up with it an funny of you did, if you meant to or not!

Not mine! Disgusting? ???? :-[  :D Mingsport was a random name. The random generator sometimes finds funny names. I didn't realize the meaning of this at all.

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I'm glad you like this idea. I originally did this set to introduce some forestry items I will need for future chains. I don't like the 'something from nothing' type of buildings (even though that is what the fisheries are) do thought a forester/gatherer combination would do well here. Once I made the pine versions, I decided to add some Canadian food options like the maple, apple, blueberry, and cranberry... stuff that is wild around here.

Yes! I do like this theme, the regional inspired buildings, the local productions. You might have noticed, that I'm a big fan of @Tom Sawyer´s the North. I have several reason for this, but one is the local inspired/models of existing buildings. I do welcome other regional themes. It makes the game more interesting and variate.

It's also wise to make a vanilla version. Without this possibility, I would more or less had been forced to build a vanilla forester/gatherer from the start.

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I always use the 'more wood per tree' mod. So when I tested these I also realised output of the foresters are low, infact that is one area I don't like in vanilla especially as more buildings are added. I get it is hard, but sometimes too much when you have to clear vast areas to supplement slow foresters. There is no way to increase this, apart from changing the wood production value in the wood template file. There is no work time or work required in the foresters. Even in early game, when you need the wood the most, an extra forester isn't the best answer. Perhaps I will increase the wood per tree in the mod, as well as adding the option of another forester.

Yes, you are right, I find too, that the output of the vanilla foresters is low. I haven't tried the "more wood per tree". (I avoid every mod, that have the slightest sound of "cheat" )  ;). But honestly;  I find increasing the output of a forester, is rather better balancing than cheat, as long as you don't exaggerate it. The foresters in the North produce a bit more than the vanilla version, I don't know how Tom made this, maybe you can ask him.
 
But you could make one thing without asking anyone. Maybe you didn't understand what I meant, talking about the area. (Not always easy for me to explain my thoughts in a foreign language.) Say, you have a spot of land, that you want to use for forestry. It's big enough to build 3 vanilla huts, where 12 foresters can work. Your area is almost as big as the vanilla, so you can't probably build more than 3, or at the most 4 of yours here either. That's only 6 or 8 foresters. They even produce much less than the 12 vanilla foresters. If you would reduce this area; not too much, that would not work well, but to a size, that gives each forester the same area as the vanilla foresters to work in, you could build 6 of your towers in this area. This would be an improvement of the output of the used area.

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Yeah I'll admit there are a few things that can be added. I didn't want to add the market for the same reason as the chopper, Kid did a great job with the small one as did a few others

No please don't make a copy of some of the existing small markets/choppers......just to have them there. I find @Kids markets and small choppers very nice and useful, too. If I understood the things right in that other thread, you have made a model of a small store. That's good. I love the North "lanthandel" (country store). A small store adapted to your area would be perfect.

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As the shore fishers produce something from nothing, I was worried about over powering them especially as they are so cheep to build. So that is why production is quite low. If it is crazy low I will increase it.

 For such a small, cheap building, it's rather too high, than too low. But all in all, I think it's quite reasonable the way it is. I will look a bit closer into food production numbers and compare them, as the game goes on.

playing with a medium climate setting,i usually try to figure about  500 food production per worker. this includes herdsmen,farming,hunters,gatherers,etc. crops i set at 10x10.  you will have good and bad years but that makes a nice round number for an average. of course harsher climates or hard starts will affect that. the mini gatherers also produce less due to the smaller radius. fish and gatherers ,especially the mini or forest outpost mods, are normally on the low end producing at an average of 300-500 per dock or hut.

I agree. Let's think about food only; a Banni needs 100 food each year. But not everyone produce food. There are children, students, laborers, builders, traders, vendors... who produce nothing and there are other craftsmen; woodchopper, tailors, blacksmiths.... producing other things. So 500 food average for a food producer in a normal game, is perfect balancing: 1 food producer provides for another 4. It's alright, if some make a bit more, some less. I think, producers that are limited in numbers; gatherers and hunters, that need a lot of space, could produce more, others that you could "spam" on your map, like the shore fisher, could produce a bit less.

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I'm also working on a spread sheet for all resources etc., but it is taking time. I can tell you that 2 lumber per wood is produced from 1 educated worker. I think this should actually be a bit higher

OK, I will ask you about the production numbers, when I build some new production building. No problem.

2 lumber from 1 wood is OK. But increasing it to 3 or 4 would maybe be better. 

I have some thoughts about using lumber as a building material.  It makes sense. To me, logs is rarely a building material. I like to see it this way: At the beginning of a game, the builders use lumber, as well for the houses. They make it by hand with an ax, we just don't see the lumber as a product. That's the way people made it a long time ago. It's slow and inefficient. Later you can make them in a saw mill more efficient; more material from one log, easier and faster to build the house. It could be a mixture of  handcut (logs) and "preproduced" (lumber) wood, like in my house. I live in a house originally built before 1840 (no one knows how old it is, but all existing houses were registered to this time). We have renovated, it's interesting to look at the old material. The thick wood for the walls are handcrafted, you can see the marks from the ax. The joists and other thinner parts are made from sawed lumber. But I have lived in an old house, where these parts were made by hand as well. Very thick, very beautiful, so we had some them open as ceiling on the ground floor and flooring (a part of) upstairs. Later of cause, the buildings could use lumber only (in combination with other materials). But of cause, then we need efficient saw mills.

This is long enough! :-\ I will write about my new game later.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2017, 10:05:05 AM »
Here we go again. I made a lot of screenshots from my new town Somersonto yesterday. Now on to the pictures:

First picture

I have decided to load a few more of the mods from Kid. I haven't really looked at, how this new Modular Mod Toolbar works before. With 5 mods from Necora and only one another from Kid, you don't get much of an impression, so I also loaded the Forest outpost and the Rawhouses. I don't know yet, if I'm going to use any of these building in this town.

What is this? Look at the red circle. Can anyone say, how did this land here? I don't want any cheat functions! ???

For us experienced players, who have followed the developments of the mods, I think the new Toolbar is an improvement. But I can understand, that new players may find it confusing, especially if they use a lot of mods from different modders. I have cut in the toolbars, it's a few mods from only 2 modders. You can see, that the "sub bars" look very different with a lot of different symbols. It would be a good idea, if you modders would agree on some kind of similar "standard". I would like, that themed mods had their own sub menu (easy to find buildings fitting good together) and that "odd" buildings/group of buildings are sorted into a menu, that looks as much as possible like the vanilla main bar. Your symbols, for houses, barns, production buildings.... do look nicer, than the vanilla @Necora, but I think, that a more standardized look; same function:same symbol would be better, especially for new players.

Second picture

Another use of Kid's mods; compare the size of the smaller buildings. Yours are not too small compared to this forest outpost house, Necora.

Third picture

Finally, I got the shore storage right! Needed 3 attempts!  :-\

The house also has a cellar. Here I've built it with the entrance a bit "round the corner" but I've also built some with the door directly beside the entrance door, even one with the entrance from the back side of the house. As long as you don't block the window, it all looks good to me. Did you have any thoughts of, how to place it, as you designed the cellar, Necora?

I have some more pictures. I will show them later, after I've prepared the dinner.


Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2017, 10:14:43 AM »
don't be alarmed the debug is part of the beta test 1.07. you don't have to use it.
i agree with you about the icons. some are hard to read too. one thing i have found is now all the modders mods go to the community button. so houses or markets that did go to the proper icons before have been moved. there are times when the old icons did work. i wish   mods that just adds a house or market or storage and would go under that icon instead of the community. but sets like the colonial or the medevil should go to the community. i understand modders want the recognition of having all their mods under their particulaar icon. i do think new players or those who don't play often will be more confused.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 10:29:16 AM by brads3 »

Offline kid1293

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2017, 10:41:49 AM »
You're right @brads3 , there should be more 'fixed' buttons under community button.
Now all modders have their own houses/storage/production...

If you want a special house now you have to click more times than before.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2017, 11:30:11 AM »
Dinner cooked and eaten.

I know, @brads3. It was a try to joke! I will not use the bug! I don't like bugs. (unless it's a vintage car and I think it's called Beetle not Bug in English)

First picture

A sweet looking view from the small settlement.

Second picture

I see you use the CC-tradesmen.  :(

Why don't I like the CC trade? There are too many merchants from whom, I never want to buy anything. Merchants who bring, to this town useless goods are only annoying; disturbing your game. In addition CC trade has so many different merchants, that the one you really need, arrive too seldom.

The house in the background is rather large and look a bit modern, maybe it's just to my European eye. Maybe houses like this are traditional in Canada. Anyway it looks nice. I will build some of the smaller buildings, too in this area. Then we will see how they look together.

Third picture

I've started to grow a pine forest. It's not fully grown, yet but it already looks very much different from a vanilla forest. That's good. Maybe these barrels, lying around in the woods, look a bit odd, but I can live with that. I'm glad, that my favourite mushroom can be found oversee as well. But what are the light brown, round things right in the picture? Can't figure that out.

As next I want to build the production buildings, that use these pine wood resources. It would be nice Necora, if you could give me the production number of these buildings.