Author Topic: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods  (Read 4662 times)

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Offline grammycat

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2017, 12:21:57 PM »
They look like bird nests to me.  I love Necora's  foresters-they add much to the game.  Always enjoy your testing posts-they are very informative and explore the mod in depth so thank you Nilla.

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2017, 12:29:30 PM »
Mingsport, still making me laugh. Especially as it is a dock set!

Re. Forester. From what I can see, the only way to change the output is to increase the amount of logs that are produced from trees. You could reduce the radius, I guess it would take less time to fill, but if you have clear and plant ticked at the same time I'm not sure it would make much of a difference. Even a small radius is actually relatively large. The one good thing about reducing the radius is to be able to fit more foresters on your map... a 2 buildings with 1 worker is more efficient than 1 building with 2 workers, I think I read somewhere this is part of the game code. Some balancing between these two aspects should work out. I know the more woods mod does seem like a bit of a cheat, but it is one I think is actually necessary.

Re. Market. Well, I did have a nice idea for one the other day, a long, thin (maybe 3x4 or 2x5) building modelled in the same style as the turpentine still/pine storage/whiskey still.

Re. Fisher production. I was aiming at around 500 units each. I've altered the high/low create numbers on the resources, so each one is slightly different to give a bit of variation and ultimately make it worth while having one building for each shellfish/seaweed. I think 500 might be too high, so 400 would be better, unless I can find a way to make it cost something.

Re. Lumber. I really like it as a resource, and think it is one of the best things CC introduced. There will be more efficient saw mills coming (see attached screen shot of a work in progress).

Re. Debug, ha, I'm glad it is part of the 107 beta, I was worried I had somehow packaged it up in one of the mods!

Re. Cellar. There is no specific placement in mind, it was an after thought. Wherever looks good/is useful! I am planning more small storage for different things, tools, firewood, textiles and cloths etc. I like storage variation and hate the vanilla stock piles.

Re. Tradesman. Yes, I didn't mean to! I used a common shared code for the new limits/flags and I think it might have included CC traders, that is why they are there. I don't particularily mind them, if you have a trading post for specific things. I see how with the vanilla tradepost it must be a pain when only one comes and it happens to be something you have no use for. Trade post will be added to future dock releases.

Re. Pine Lodge. I had ideas for nice woodland lodges, large buildings, good heat etc. For some reason, this one did come out really modern looking. I don't know why, I can't place my finger on what it is in particular! I do want to change it, but can't think how. I think the other one is a bit better.

Re. Pine Forest Items. I don't like the barrels, but I have yet to think of a good way to represent things like maple sap, resin etc. I could have other things on the ground, just have to think of what. Unfortunately, you can't put a tap on a tree, well you can, but the whole tree will be 'harvested' to produce the resin rather than just the tap emptied. So not sure what the best thing to do is.

Re. Light brown round things... have you tried harvesting them? They are grouse nests. They will produce a 'wild animal' resource when picked up by a trapper. This will be skinned by the skinner to produce random fur/feather/egg/meat products. There should be others on the map too... I see one in that picture obscured by a tree in the upper middle. I'll let you guess what they are. I want to expand this, more variety of models, and I also want to try and control where they spawn. But for that, I think I need to change a start condition.

Re. Production. All numbers should be in the spread sheet here.

This is great!! Thank you.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2017, 01:34:29 PM »
VW can be called by either name. thou punch bug is more common.
   i didn't find that house to be too large. that might be since i do use CC,though i have various mods with small and large houses. i am curious to hear your take on the building sizes in relation to other houses and schools or production buiildings.
  NECORA,those food numbers sound good. as to storage , i would like to see a set. i use slinks small markets mod ,http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?topic=542.45 about half way down the page is a good pic. mainly started to use it to store stone. i like how the set splits the resources with several storage buildings.  with the new tags, a storage mod set is needed.i do wish slink's had come with a "f"variant rather than just the 1 rexture. actually we need storage plus a vendor set.
  speaking of traders,could we get an indian trader that has better numbers or values than the CC frontier's?? i know NILLA will call it a cheat since we don't wait for the boats but it could be tweaked. make it so it only uses 1 worker to stock it and then play with the input and outputs so it works smoothly not as a hack.with the furs this could be an interesting addition.
    as to the wild game,furs,or nests,i could see them spawning all over the map at the start like the blueberries,herbs,etc. CC just added the domestic animals in the latest version, and i dislike it. it is overpowering. more like NILLAS cheats.lol.  in time,hopefully CC releases a modular set to their version. then we might be able to have more options to our start settings.so far i don't think we can change start conditions and use Cc .
« Last Edit: March 02, 2017, 02:15:29 PM by brads3 »

Offline grammycat

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 06:38:55 PM »
I guess I'm the oddball that likes the barrels, but you could use buckets as both sap and resin are collected that way.  My lumber cutter seems real slow at producing firewood-is this how it should work?

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2017, 07:32:31 PM »
I guess I'm the oddball that likes the barrels, but you could use buckets as both sap and resin are collected that way.  My lumber cutter seems real slow at producing firewood-is this how it should work?

I did think about buckets, I might give them a go and see.

And with the cutter, unfortunately, yes. I didn't want firewood in there initially, for that reason. I wanted it to be a slow building for lumber, if you produce lumber at firewood rate you get so much of it, it takes away a lot of difficulty when building. There were so many requests for firewood too that I added it in. I did cut the work time a bit, but it is still slow. Unfortunately, there is no way to separate the two. You can only set the work time and effort of the whole building, not individual outputs.

Offline grammycat

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2017, 06:23:35 AM »
That's fine-I just wanted to make sure it was intended.  I like slow lumbar production-I always forget to cut it off until all my wood has been eaten up.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2017, 06:53:21 AM »
Quote
Fisher production. I was aiming at around 500 units each. I've altered the high/low create numbers on the resources, so each one is slightly different to give a bit of variation and ultimately make it worth while having one building for each shellfish/seaweed. I think 500 might be too high, so 400 would be better, unless I can find a way to make it cost something.
Yes, I've noticed, that there's a difference in production between the various kind of food. I have seen an annual production between 350 (oyster) and 680 (seeweed). My 3 huts are good located; storage and homes all close, all workers are educated, so I guess, you can't get much more. I agree; the production is high, especially for seeweed. The tiny fisher from Kid produces more ~800, but it has quite a large active area, so you can't build many. I guess you could squeeze in 10 of yours in the same area.

One question to this: To what food category does seeweed belong?

There's one small thing about your shore fisher, I can criticize: As far as I know; oyster, scallops and clams are salt water animals, not to be found here on a river or a lake. OK, we can pretend that the ocean is behind the river creek, just outside our view, but we don't see any boats, that bring the fisher there. I can't say, that this really disturbs me. There are other unrealistic things in Banished (the vanilla ageing above all) that are worse.

Quote
  I used a common shared code for the new limits/flags and I think it might have included CC traders, that is why they are there. I don't particularly mind them, if you have a trading post for specific things. I see how with the vanilla tradepost it must be a pain when only one comes and it happens to be something you have no use for. Trade post will be added to future dock releases.

The only specialized tradingports, I can build in this game are from Kid's Raw house mod. They are good at the beginning of a game, but small, you can't store much export goods in it. Since you say, that many of your special goods has no real use in Banished yet, there will be a lot of different export goods to store. That's the reason I choose the big port. I have also built two small ports now; one for building materials and one for seeds. I want to farm grain for domestic animals and the merchants seldom bring seed and don't bring enough grain.

One or several special trading ports in the dock mod is a very good idea. The look of the vanilla port doesn't fit to your buildings. The small from Kid look better, are good at the beginning but some larger ports would be needed, too.

I would also think about which merchants you want to use. As I said in that other thread, I guess that one/some of the CC merchants causes a crash, if you play without CC. Vanilla would be better or maybe you could make your own.

To the items in the forest: Now, when I have workers in the pine forest, the barrels in the forest are logical; the gatherer walks around, tap the trees in buckets (as so many other things, you don't see it) and empties them in the barrel. When the barrel is full, it's carried to the store. Nothing wrong with that.

These things I asked about, do look like birds nests, but since I hadn't any trapper and skinner to that time, I thought that it was something for the gatherer, but I saw no eggs in my store. I can also see something, that looks like silver fox furs, and a pile of spruce, that could be some kind of animal nest, but I'm not sure.

As I said; I've built a trapper and a skinner. So far, I think the output is very low; just a little above 100 wild animals each year. You have planned the skinner to be built together with the trapper in the forest. But I don't find, that it's a good location; he has to go out of the forest  to get his raw material and back in again to process it.  A sawmill cellar for textiles(?) that could be placed in the forest without taking away much space, could solve this. I have chosen to build the skinner's desk at the store instead. It looks like the production of the skinner is even lower than the trapper. Not even on this good location, he can process the few animals from the trapper.

To lumber/firewood. The productivity of the small lumber cutter is indeed low. For lumber at the beginning, it might be good that way, as you say @grammycat. And you will not need much early anyway. And as long as there are more efficient alternatives for later, like your new very nice model, it's fine. But for firewood, this building is quite useless. You need a lot of firewood. I can think of one thing, that you can do, to make this building useful, even to times when you don't need lumber: If you can't change the working speed, why not the number of firewood, that's produced from one log? It would increase the output and save important building material at the beginning of a game. Of cause, to keep some kind of balance, the productivity must still be much lower than a normal chopper.

Thank you for the spreadsheet. I saw it in that other thread but didn't notice that there were several pages.

Now some pictures

First picture

You can see the small spinner and the workplace of the skinner, as I said, not in the forest but at the barn. The spinner looks very sweet. But I feel a bit sorry for the worker; out in the snow. Here spinning was a winterwork for the women, but the work was made in the house; the spinning wheel close to the fireplace. No wonder, that yours is very inefficient. ;) And if I understand your numbers right Necora, making twine is a really bad business: You need 5 flax (worth 2) to make 2 twine (worth 4). If you sell the twine, each makes a loss of 1 trade unit, compared to if you sell the flax without processing.

To my opinion: Every production building should increase the value of the product in a reasonable way; never decrease it. I know, that in CC quite a few production buildings are that way.  Because some other CC buildings give a to me too high profit, the game is still playable, but I dislike these overpowered buildings as much as the "lossmaker". That's the reason, I usually don't play CC, even if I like the design and many of their ideas.

Second picture

The same area as I stopped the game, 6 years later. I fully agree with you, Necora; stockpiles don't look nice. I have replaced some of them with your fantastic stores. I like the look of this area; a mixture of homes and workplaces, all well fit together, close the pine forest. It do look good in the snow. I like the contrast between dark green and the white snow. I guess, it would have looked even better, if I've left some more space between the buildings, but this is the way I build; efficiency first.  :-\

Third picture

I've also built a maple forest, not fully grown, yet.

Fourth picture

Another impression. Someone maybe want to see the production numbers.

I finally got some corn seeds, so I could start to build your farm. Well, the fence will not prevent any goat or chicken from pillaging the close corn field. But it's red! So I built it anyway. ;)


Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2017, 09:09:46 AM »
NILLA "There's one small thing about your shore fisher, I can criticize: As far as I know; oyster, scallops and clams are salt water animals, not to be found here on a river or a lake. OK, we can pretend that the ocean is behind the river creek, just outside our view, but we don't see any boats, that bring the fisher there."
this is funny. haven't you learned by now that NECORA played on the beach too long when he was a kid. he has sand and salt water betwen his ears.lol jk
modders don't know what freshwater tastes like let along the type of  fish we really have. this is a quirk of the game.we never really have a coastline.hmm but it never gets dark either so you have to work all day every day with no sleep.hahaha

NILLA"that this really disturbs me." at least you admit it.you must be lost since all your water isn't frozen.would you like some decorative ghosted boats and maybe an iceberg and polar bear?
  i agree with the idea of a dock port. the CC 1 doesn't seem to bring seeds so it needs to work more like a vanilla or general trader.
   would the firewood-lumber problems be better solved by changing the output to both firewood and lumber each yr and take logs on input??then NECORA can adjust the output numbers himself so you get x amount of firewood plus a small amount of lumber.even if the lumber per year is less than if you set it to lumber all year now.might get a better balance.

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2017, 12:14:46 PM »
@Nilla I'm really enjoying this run through, it is bringing out some great ideas/improvements, so thank you.

Re. Trapper and Skinner - These are the first goes, so I expect production to be changed in the next update. In fact, I want to change the way things are spawned on the map which will allow me to add more diversity to what you see in the forests, and have specific graphics for different forest sets (pine, maple, vanilla). I also want to add a type that is spawned at the start of the game, and only spawns next to the river. I see what you mean by the skinner having to go get stuff from outside the radius, I didn't think of that, I was just thinking of keeping them as one building. I think I will add a) a small textiles store for the forest set and b) an F-variant of the skinner that is a stand alone so it can be placed anywhere else and still look good.

Re. Merchants. I'll go over the code and make sure what is in there is not CC. Then I will go back to just vanilla for the time being.

Re. Firewood/lumber... again, something I didn't consider. It is a good idea, at the moment it generates 1:2 lumber/firewood from 4 logs. I can change the amount of logs from 4 to 1 to quadruple firewood production, making the option worth while. Do you have an idea of how much firewood was produced in 1 year?

Re. Saltwater species, well, yeah I get that. 1 - I wanted to introduce them because the bounty of the ocean is such a large aspect of the reason many places were colonized in Atlantic Canada/NE USA. Lobster especially, shaped many coastal communities, and is still a major aspect of the culture/economy. 2 - Technically, all species in the shore gatherers are also inter-tidal/estuarine species, so it is possible to get them without a boat from mudbanks/sandbanks in river mouths and lagoons. All of the species in the shore fishers are harvested by hand or grown in estuaries etc. 3 - Around here, the coasts have a lot of salt water lagoons, tidal inlets, large estuarys etc., with narrow entrances to the ocean and salt water that can stretch a long way in land (not unlike the fjords in Norway/Sweden just less deep and without the mountains). There are plenty of fishing towns that you cannot see the ocean from, so from that point of view, I imagine that the lakes in banished are representative of that.

Plus, I'm a marine biologist who spent his whole life living by the ocean and think it is crazy that there is no ocean in banished, what @brads3 said totally true, I have the surfer's ear (like swimmers ear - too much salt water!) to prove it ;)

Oh and Seaweed is a vegetable.


Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2017, 02:10:51 PM »
I realised I forgot a couple of bits...

Quote
You can see the small spinner and the workplace of the skinner, as I said, not in the forest but at the barn. The spinner looks very sweet. But I feel a bit sorry for the worker; out in the snow. Here spinning was a winterwork for the women, but the work was made in the house; the spinning wheel close to the fireplace. No wonder, that yours is very inefficient. ;) And if I understand your numbers right Necora, making twine is a really bad business: You need 5 flax (worth 2) to make 2 twine (worth 4). If you sell the twine, each makes a loss of 1 trade unit, compared to if you sell the flax without processing.

To my opinion: Every production building should increase the value of the product in a reasonable way; never decrease it. I know, that in CC quite a few production buildings are that way.  Because some other CC buildings give a to me too high profit, the game is still playable, but I dislike these overpowered buildings as much as the "lossmaker". That's the reason, I usually don't play CC, even if I like the design and many of their ideas.

Re. Spinner... well here is a conundrum. I agree that spinning is an inside job, but there is an issue with visual representation in game, especially with small production buildings. Originally, it was going to be in a shed that can be placed next to or a joining a house, like the loom. However, you then get a bunch of nondescript shed buildings than unless you are very familiar with the mod, you have to go through them all to find which is what. That is why I decided to put the wheel outside, to give the building something that visually defines it. You can still place the building up against a house, and pretend the actual work is being done inside during the summer.

I have no idea what I am going to do with the next level of all of these production buildings, they will all definitely be inside, so getting visual representation there is going to have to be signs and things.

A disclaimer about values/productions... this is something I have absolutely no idea about and is something that totally perplexes me when designing this stuff. I have lots of visual ideas, no functional ones. So any advice/feedback on improving chain values is helpful.

And the thing with twine, is the same with rope. I agree there should be at least no decrease in trade (break even) and for that the value of yarn/twine should be increased. However, I also wanted to add a cost for certain things. IRL, flax would make a lower quality rope or twine than hemp, which was the go to material for this sort of thing as it lasted longer and was more durable. Vice versa, with fabrics, flax based linen and cotton based cloth is better than hemp based canvas (for making sails etc.). Now, I didn't want to make a different type of material for each output (flax twine, hemp twine, flax rope, hemp rope etc.), that would be ridiculous, so it all can be used for making the same output. To represent the fact that some were better than others, I made it so that if you do chose to use flax, it will cost you more than hemp for rope. If you want to make sails/clothing in the future out of hemp, it will cost you more than out of flax. With that in mind, I will change the value of twine to be be equal value to the input value of flax. So if you use flax, it costs you more to produce but you break even. If you use hemp, it is less to produce and you make a profit.

Does that make sense?

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2017, 07:43:46 AM »
@brads3 , it looks like you somehow work in politics in your normal life:  ;) ;D  Making fully correct quotes, but leaving out a part of it, to give it a different meaning. I wrote;  "I can't say, that this really disturbs me". It will be something completely different if you take away the part before the ","! ;)

Quote
at the moment it generates 1:2 lumber/firewood from 4 logs. I can change the amount of logs from 4 to 1 to quadruple firewood production, making the option worth while. Do you have an idea of how much firewood was produced in 1 year?

I saw these numbers, as I looked at your production sheet. A  vanilla chopper makes 4 firewood from 1 log and your other lumber cutter makes 2 lumber from 1 log. The original production of the Pine Cutter is much too bad. It will be a little bit better, if you would change it, the way you suggest but still, these workers would spoil a lot of material; the half of it compared to their colleges. I meant, this small slow cutter could make 8 or 10 firewood from one log (could be explained, that he uses the residue from lumber cutting as well). Lumber could be the same as the other; 2 lumber from 1 log; but he should work slower.

I'm not sure, that I let it run a whole year. I stopped it, as I saw how unskilled he was. Anyhow it was very little, just a small fraction of a vanilla cutter. I guess in the range 20 lumber or 40 firewood each year (compared to up to 1000 for a vanilla cutter and 700 for the small).

Quote
Re. Spinner... well here is a conundrum. I agree that spinning is an inside job, but there is an issue with visual representation in game, especially with small production buildings. Originally, it was going to be in a shed that can be placed next to or a joining a house, like the loom. However, you then get a bunch of nondescript shed buildings than unless you are very familiar with the mod, you have to go through them all to find which is what. That is why I decided to put the wheel outside, to give the building something that visually defines it. You can still place the building up against a house, and pretend the actual work is being done inside during the summer.

I have no idea what I am going to do with the next level of all of these production buildings, they will all definitely be inside, so getting visual representation there is going to have to be signs and things

As I said; the spinner looks very sweet, the way it is. My comment was more a small joke. I wouldn't mind, if it would stay an outside job. (I had to look up the word conundrum, but I did understand the joke) I fully "buy" your arguments. It's good, if you could identify a building at the first look. Maybe a combination; keeping a spinning wheel outside and still let the work be made inside. I'm confident, that you will find out something good.

Quote
A disclaimer about values/productions... this is something I have absolutely no idea about and is something that totally perplexes me when designing this stuff. I have lots of visual ideas, no functional ones. So any advice/feedback on improving chain values is helpful.

And the thing with twine, is the same with rope. I agree there should be at least no decrease in trade (break even) and for that the value of yarn/twine should be increased. However, I also wanted to add a cost for certain things. IRL, flax would make a lower quality rope or twine than hemp, which was the go to material for this sort of thing as it lasted longer and was more durable. Vice versa, with fabrics, flax based linen and cotton based cloth is better than hemp based canvas (for making sails etc.). Now, I didn't want to make a different type of material for each output (flax twine, hemp twine, flax rope, hemp rope etc.), that would be ridiculous, so it all can be used for making the same output. To represent the fact that some were better than others, I made it so that if you do chose to use flax, it will cost you more than hemp for rope. If you want to make sails/clothing in the future out of hemp, it will cost you more than out of flax. With that in mind, I will change the value of twine to be be equal value to the input value of flax. So if you use flax, it costs you more to produce but you break even. If you use hemp, it is less to produce and you make a profit.

Does that make sense?


OK, I can say much about balancing. I always check new buildings this way, so maybe I can help a bit. I start with a calculation of how much profit/loss 1 unit of the product makes. (Value of the  product - value of any rawmaterial) then I look a couple of years, how much is produced each year. It's important to check the location, if there's enough raw material close, where the workers live, if there´s enough storage to put the product..... This way, I can calculate an average annual profit. It takes some time but I have time by playing; not making any efforts by placing buildings and decorations.  :-\

It makes perfect sense, what you say. Of cause, some products/ways of production should be more profitable than others. But what do you mean with equal value? To me, it's not value in, same as value out; that's not "equal". Why should anyone work for nothing? To me, equal is about 150 (that's about the value of what one person need each year in food, firewood, tools and clothing). Unless there are some very special reason, I wouldn't set anything below that. I also think, that there should be some products, that are more profitable; suitable for export. As modder you can choose which. In your Canadian mod, I would choose some typical Canadian export products; you already mentioned lobsters. I think, they should be very profitable to catch. I would choose some more, probable export goods from this region. 

Vanilla Banished has firewood and ale. I find ale OK, make sense to produce and sell, even if I find the profit of a vanilla brewer too high (~2500 if it's good located). But firewood as export good? I don't like that. Weird.

Personally, I find what @brads3 says about food; an average of 500 is good in general. As I said, some chosen export goods should be higher; maybe 1000, at the very most 1500, no one less than 150.  More complicated products from several raw materials, could be high, same as endproducts from longer production chains, intermediate products in these chains low, like simple basic products from small cheap buildings, without input or space requirements. Productions from buildings, that need much space (foresters, gatherers, hunters) could be high. I don't say, that this is easy. There are several ways to go. High productivity and low profit for each unit, could give the same as a low productivity and a high profit.

If you want, I can try to help; test and calculate. I have started to look at the production but the game crashed, so I'm not done yet. Generally it looks like your buildings have a low profit but I can say more when I've played a bit more.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2017, 05:37:06 AM »
I have looked a bit more on the production numbers. If I can decipher my notes, I'll make a small list of the yearly production for 1 worker. I've also calculated an annual profit, also for 1 worker. If I looked more than 1 year, I used the average value. Take it for what it is; a rough estimation, that can variate depending on a lot of things. All my people are educated. I hope the numbers are correct. I might have misinterpreted some numbers wrong. I haven't dubble checked, so no guarantee.

Shore fisher
Seeweed  560-663
Oysters     279-360
Scallop      375-468

Pine Lumber Cutter (I was a bit short on logs, so I only ran it 1 year)
Firewood   48     yearly profit:    0
Lumber      22     yearly profit: -88

Dock Lumber Cutter (I was a bit short on logs, as the production was low, there was always enough but not always close, but always a lot on the close stockpile, as the production was high)
Lumber    34-60  yearly profit 140

Pine Loom/Pine Spinner (I let them run only 1 year, I save flax for ropes. 1 gatherer must work 3-4 years, to get enough flax for 1 rope. I find rope need much too much raw material)
Linen      40     yearly profit 180
Twine      26    yearly profit  -26

Pitch Kiln (using pine bough, logs is a loss)
Pitch           52            yearly profit 26
Charcoal    116-140   yearly profit 420

Trapper
Wild animals 90-136  (It looks like the production gets down, as the forest grows dense. You can see the same in vanilla forester/gatherer; if you don't cut any trees in a dense forest, the production from the gatherer gets down. I guess the space for these resources gets too small. The radius is too big for 2 foresters to keep up the speed)

Skinner
4 random products 84 -86     yearly profit 200  (The profit varies a lot depending on how much furs are produced, The total production was very much the same but furs variate between 12 and 42, the 3 years I looked. Furs are worth 5, the others 1)

Pineforest harvester
4 random products 500-590  yearly profit 520-620 ( the production gets down here too, like wild animals but not so much)

Pineforester
 Logs 70   yearly profit 140. (This is the production for one forester the last year. So far it has increased from year to year, as the forest has grown. It's still less than the vanilla forester (about 90). I'll continue to keep an eye on it and see if it's getting higher) 

One last thing; I can´t see how much charcoal´s needed for turpentine. The turpentine still had a production of 66 the year I checked.

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2017, 09:43:07 AM »
@Nilla cool. The update I am working on now is bug fixes, but I have done some work on create numbers and trade values so that at least nothing is negative. If you look at the spreadsheet I shared then the new numbers are on it including a break done of trade values in and out for each resource combination.

I've also added inventories and numbers to all production building UIs so you can see what is there and how much is needed.

I had a play through yesterday, and the lumber cutter was just terrible even for lumber. It has been re-vamped so should give a much better out put now.


Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #28 on: March 05, 2017, 10:40:29 AM »
@Nilla update on lumber/firewood.

I've managed to make it so that out put is over 100 units of each in a year, at least with fully educated peeps.

Here are the vital stats...

Lumber = Value 4, Low Create = 4, High Create = 5.
Firewood = Value 4, Low Create = 3, High Create = 4 (Vanilla Numbers).
Logs = Value 2 (Vanilla Numbers)

Lumber Cutter = Build Time = 10, Work Required = 10 (between 1/2 and 1/3 as fast as a saw mill).

Lumber = Logs (# = 4, Value = 8 ), Ed. = 5, Value = 20, Gain = 12. Non-Ed = 4, Value = 16, Gain = 8.
Firewood = Logs (# = 1, Value = 2), Ed. = 4, Value = 16, Gain = 14. Non-Ed = 3, Value = 12, Gain = 10.

For every 1 log, an educated cutter will produce 1.25 lumber or 4 firewood.
For every 1 log, and un-educated cutter will produce 1 lumber or 3 firewood.



Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2017, 05:14:26 PM »
I still see one problem, if it only makes 100 firewood. That's enough to heat only about 2 cheap houses. 1 worker working a whole year for that?  :-\