Author Topic: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods  (Read 4663 times)

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Offline Tom Sawyer

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2017, 04:11:33 PM »
You swam up to Florida because of me? Why? I was not mad, not even because of dictator which does not sound very funny where I come from.^^ I also have no feathers in my mod... thats Necora. And tar comes earliest in the new version. Maybe you should be more careful then. ;D

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #76 on: March 21, 2017, 05:26:59 PM »
lol i have tried dear sir.<<<bows

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #77 on: March 21, 2017, 06:07:30 PM »
lets see if i can get my brain to work for a minute.NILLA,i argue with you to show a different approach to using the mods.if you are right with your explanation then the game is wrong. It has been only recently that i tried planting forests and not leave the forester alone to cut logs for firewood.
     the new CC journey has foresters for orchard fruit trees. i planted apples,maples,walnuts ,and some grapes with somewhat overlapping circles. i was hoping for a forest with some wild apple trees and a field of grapes near the center where i planned to build a woodland town center. it would have worked better if the dang grape planter was smart enough to plant grapes where land had already been cleared. these banis never do what we want. i rotated the forester from 1 to the other every 3-5 years.it took a while to get this planted and some growth from the trees. the vanilla gatherer works to harvest all this.i had 1 gatherer in the middle of the forest with good production numbers. apples,maple sap,grapes,and walnuts mixed with the usual gatherer items.i did not see a drop off on anything. since the gatherer window doesn't have enough spaces to show all the items collected, i would have had more than the numbers would show.i don't think i had the forever-tree mod on then either.
   in reality,i can take you to maple trees that the squirrels planted many many years ago and they produced sap when i was a kid. and if we tap those trees i assure you we will have sap. those trees are smart enough to produce sap with nooo help at all.  the pines and apples and other trees will grow that way too.
and the animales won't care much 1 way or the other about how old or young the trees are.beavers will cut them down,deer will hide in them. Turkeys and pheasants might like them more dense,but foxes will prefer the meadows with them to chase fieldmice in. now berry bushes won't grow as well under the trees. they prefer the edges where they get more sunlight.
  once the initial trees are planted they should grow and mature by themself. therefore they should produce constistently after the trees have some growth to them. so if it doesn't work that way the game is wrong. that isn't NECORA's fault. he can only do what the game lets him do. that is why i asked what controls the amounts of items to the gatherers. to me a gatherer placed in the middle of town by itself should propogate berry bushes and find items without a forester at all.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2017, 05:31:12 AM »
@brads3; I can say nothing about the CC foresters for orchard trees. I haven't tried it and don't know how it works. What I said, is based on vanilla forester/gatherer. You seems to be upset, that a natural forest doesn't give as much food/resources as a forest, that's tended by foresters. Once again, I must argue withe you @brads. ;) :-[

Opposite to many other things in Banished, that's how it works in life too. At least if the forestry is made in a sustainable way. Of cause a wild, unattended forest produce wild food and animals live there in big diversity, but if it's attended in the right way, it can produce more. The conditions for useful plants and animals could be improved, just the way it is in Banished. Of cause, if you look at the modern, industrial, monocultured wood industry of a forest, it's not the case, the same thing we probably would see in Banished as well: If we could put 10 foresters into the cabin, I'm pretty sure, there would be very little food to collect in that area.

But not only arguing, I must make a compliment to you, as well Brads: I do notice that you're making big efforts, writing for us elder people. It's a big difference from how it once was. I do understand what you write, I did before as well, but it took some time. I appreciate your efforts! :)

Perhaps we should all be careful: Necora doesn't have tar, but pitch and feathers could work as well.  :o I´promise I will be nice! From now on!  ;D ;)

I got another idea yesterday, that might explain the few animals your trapper gets, Brads. As I've said; my trapper caught much more wild animals, than my only skinner could process. I solved this by letting the trapper work a year or two, then closing his shop some years, until new animals were needed. If I've understood it right, the wild animals "spawn" like mushrooms in the forest. I don't know, how often a new animal apperas and how long it stays, if it's not "picked". I guess; when a trapper first get into the forest, he finds a lot of animals, that have bin there for some time. But once these are "harvested", not enough new animals appears, to keep up this high production. I guess this is another difficult balancing problem.

I tested this theory yesterday, and I can say; yes it's a part of the explanation, but maybe not the whole truth. I let the trapper run continuously another 5 years. I also built a second trapper, to see what happens at the beginning. And yes, the production gets down. The yearly production of the original trapper was 84-72-48-62-62-48. The second trapper: 116-70-66-96-56. You can see,  that the yearly production gets down, if you let the trapper work continuously, but the variation between the years is very large. I can't explain that. It does explain my estimated 100, but not your 10 animals from the trapper each year, Brads.

I didn't make one screenshot yesterday. There's not much new to show. Year 49, 470 prosperous inhabitants. It's quite obvious, how your mod saves building area. Look at the map up in the left corner on the screenshot, I just made: It's a medium map, maybe 1/5 of the map is used. There are forests and fields, not only dull export industry. I can really recommend this mod to people, who have slow computers, but still want to build large settlements. (If you didn't knew this; small maps causes less lags, than large on slow computers, at least on my old one)

I killed the first hunter in the tower in the front of the picture.  :'( Somehow she could enter it, but as she wanted to get down, to get home and grab some food, she couldn't leave because the ladder ends in the water. (Don't understand how she got there in the first place) Stupid as I am, I also killed several obedient builders, who followed my first orders of demolishing. They, too climbed the ladder but couldn't get down. Finally, I got the idea of the jetty. Why didn´t I think about it in the first place. :-[
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 05:35:29 AM by Nilla »

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2017, 09:10:39 AM »
i told you i was tired when i read those posts last night so if i said something that didn't make sence you all would ignore it. i didn't sleep well either so my brain still isn't as awake as it should be. not sure why i just fel zoned out.  noo i am not upset with the game. somewhere between confused and frustrated. but i have been that way since the CC journey and then the changes after added to it. i changed some mods and regrouped my game to a 1.06 and a half. but that is a different story.
    we are going to have NECORA all messed up when he gets back from trying to plant trees. i am sure he has had fun trying cause every time he digs a hole the wind blows snow back in it.one minute NILLA argues with me and the next agrees. by now i think we are both confused. if my mind worked, i would go read the BL page and figure out some of how this mod works.
     1st lets split the forester from the gatherer and trapper,NILLA. to me they should work separately. your arguement as to a forest giving more if it is worked is debateable. yes a forester will work to maximize log output . however, in doing that they will weed out berry bushes and disturb animal habitats.
     in a vanilla game,a gatherer by itself should plant berry bushes and harvest foods by itself with no forester in the circle. is this wrong?? this brings up my question as to what decides how much stuff appears in the circle. is it the game and map itself??? it seems to be because while the banis are clearing land for crops and houses the 1st year they will find foods. this does not include "tree-fruits" or items.
      the trapper ,acting as a gatherer of animals instead of berries ,should produce animals without a forester also. yes you can outfish a lake or over hunt an area.so the idea that the trapper chases animals away or disturbs them is valid. however, the game was changed a long time ago so the banis are not environmentally stupid. the overhunting was fixed so the banis work with nature more so like the american indians did.
       now maple sap and apples are dependant on trees. we go back to your idea that a forester should work and get more from it. i will agree with you to a point. with a forester out there working,he should be planting more trees and weeding out less productive trees. there is a limit to how many trees a forest can have. taking your theory,  the area should produce more the 2nd and 3rd year than the 1st with a forester working. and this should continue foe several years. my theory is also right . x number of trees will produce x amount of apples and sap and this number should be fairly consistent from year to year depending on the weather. one factor that could affect this is the aging rate of the trees. the age mods affect the banis but i do not think they have any affect on nature. so what is the rate of growth or aging of trees in the game?? is it 25 years to 1 game year? this could cause a die off of trees earlier and therefore a drop in production.
        NECORA has control and can change items and rather they are dependant on trees or not. however the game has its own limits. in theory there are x number of spaces per circle and a gatherer covers x number of spaces per year to collect items.hmm did he change these numbers in his code?? i realize the circle is smaller but the production should have balanced in relation to that. say the circle is 75% of the original forester,then the gatherer should collect 75% as much as an original.hmm in that case,NILLA i should collect roughly half as much as your total unless my bani is leaveing items. that is quite possable since NECORA changed what the gatherer can collect.
      wow this post seems way too long. does it make sence??? did we solve anything? i think we might confuse NECORA as much as ourselves.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2017, 09:57:05 AM »
NILLA,not to derail our discussion but did you go thru all  the trade values yet? i just started a trader and the turpentine seems low. it is equal to firewood but takes firewood or charcoal to make. that is a bad loss.my candles with 2 workers 1 for the bees and 1 to make the candles is 8,double the turpentine.and that doesn't include the honey bonus output either.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2017, 04:48:00 PM »
NILLA,i did turn the foresters back on for a few years.i also added a forest outpost gatherer to the pine forest,since that is about the same size circle.i worker at the pine cache=740 overall total-352 blueberry,72 maple sap,260 apples,and 56 cranberry. that is with the forester turned back on for 2years.
with it on for 4years i have 1658-1100 apples,264 sap,154 blueberry,and 140 cranberry.i also have 38 wild animals from that forest,finally.the pine forester
with 4years extra growth gave 512 total-130 flax,144 resin,110 fungus,128 pine boughs. the hunter is stable at 600 venison. this trapper here still only got 15 animals.my added F.O. gatherer collected 384-148 blueberry,126 onion,88 mushrooms,and 22 roots.so that is 900 for both gatherers in the pine forest. i saved the game after i turned both those foresters back off. i want to see how bad the dropoff is tomorrow.
   comparing the pine and maple gatherers to the forest outposts gatherers that are about the same size circles,the numbers are close with the forester turned on.i think the apples pay out a lot per bucket which made those numbers look high. i think the map is generating vanilla fruits in the circle and with the forester on it changes them to NECORA's items.therefore the 2 sets of items are competing for the available space with the forester turned off.it doesn't even sound right but that is the way it looks. this may be coded where it can not be corrected. since the tree count stays the same, the forester should still yeild the same number of items.the only other idea i have is the gatherer,even though it is not a vanilla gatherer is affecting the items per space.
    not sure where but i sence a gremlin in the coding changing the items from NECORA's set to vanilla.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2017, 05:16:57 AM »
I started a similar experiment as yours yesterday, @brads3. I have 2 pine and 2 maple forest, so I turned the foresters off in one of each. I hope, I can buy a bit more logs, to get along without these foresters. I only played three years without foresters but there is no dramatic drop in production, at least not yet. I have noted the numbers: maple forest 2854-2375 each year, pine forest 1367-880 The lowest values are actually both from my dense forests. The trapper hasn't shown any drop so far, they are both between 94 and 48. I will run it for some more years (or at least as long as I can manage without the extra logs.)

To your question about trade value and profit, I can say; yes, compared to vanilla buildings and those from from Red and Kid, most of Necora´s have a low production and a low profit, but mostly, it's some profit.

I made some notes of the production in my buildings in this settlement. I hope, I don't mix anything up. My notes are not always 100% readable.  :-[ :-\

Let's look at the pine forest and its products. Except my favourites (in life, I use to pick them myself); the chanterelle and maybe flax for ropes, nothing else of it's resources could be used by your Bannis, they are export goods, in one way or another.

2 gatherers collected as average in my forests the last few years :
Pine resin          336     
Pine bough          286
Chanterelle       383
Flax                   111 (worth 222 in trade)

If you eat the chanterelle and sell the rest, it's a value of 383 (food) + 884 (trade) or around 630 each for a gatherer in a pine forest

I process pine bough to charcoal, I need them for the maple products. You can also make pine pitch but that's for export only and the production numbers are about the same as charcoal, so I prefere the charcoal. (Maybe it's also better, not to have any pitch for all those feathers, that's produced  ;D, who knows what will happen? ) My charcoaler produced as average around 130 charcoal (152-104) each year. 3 pine bough gives 4 charcoal, each worth 4. That means: input 3, output 16, profit 13 for 4 charcoal or 3,25 for each or 422 for one worker. To make 130 charcoal, you need 97 bough. To process all of the pine bough from 2 gatherers, you'll need about 3 coaler.

The pine resin could be processed to turpentine. It has no use (at the present? ) for the Bannis. It's export only. My still produced as average around 140 (128-152) turpentine each year. 3 pine resin and 1 charcoal gives 4 turpentine, each worth 4. That means: input 7, output 16, profit 9 for 4 turpentine or 2,25 for each or 315 for one worker. To make 140 turpentine, you'll need 105 resin and 35 charcoal. To process all resin from 2 gatherer, you'll need about 3 stills.

From flax you can make rope, twine or linen. You'll need a few rope, to build some jetty buildings, but the other products are only export. I hope that the tailor will be able to make linen clothes in the next version of your mod, @Necora . To make 2 ropes, you'll need 175 flax. That means, that every rope has a production cost of 175. You can buy (cheap import) rope for 35 ???, so I will not write more about this. My sweet little spinner produces average 65 (56-72) twine each year. 5 flax gives 4 twine, each worth 6. That means: input 10, output 24, profit 14 for 4 twine or 3,5 for each or 228 for one worker. To make 65 twine, you'll need 81 flax, so one spinner can process most of the flax from 2 gatherer. My weaver produces average 56 (52-60) linen each year. 7 flax gives 4 linen, worth 8. That means: input 14, output 32, profit 18 for 4 linen or 4,5 each or 252 for one worker. To make 56 linen you'll need 98 flax, so one weaver can process most of the flax from 2 gatherers.

Normally, I would not run an export production with these low values (200-300). In this game, I run one of each, just to test. And of cause, I sell the products and from time to time, when the stores get too full, I also sell a little flax and resin.

I run 5 charcoaler, but that I don't sell. I need it for my maple whiskey production. It gives a profit of about 1000 each year, with ordered maple syrup. If you don't count the woodchopper with vanilla values, who can make crazy, overpowered 3000 and the gatherers in the maple forest, who make around 1300, it's the most profitable of Necora´s buildings, as far as I have seen.

We can compare it with the tailor from Red, who makes fur coats, with a profit of 25 for each coat, with a production of 80-100 coat each year. It would be a profit of more than 2000 each year, if all of the coats could be sold. But they aren't. In fact, the people fancy these fur coats much too much, so not more than about the half, is actually carried into the trading port. You may say; half of 2000 is still good profit, but math isn't that simple. If only half of the coats are carried into the trading ports, it's not much profit to produce fur coats. ( If the tailor produce 100 fur coats, it will need 200 furs; value 4000. 50 coats are sold for 65 =3250, rest of the coats are used by the people. A warm coat has a value of 20, so if we add the value of 50 coats =1000, you'll get 4250, a trade profit of only 250. :-\) Now, I run this tailor anyway, if my people want fur coat, they can have them. No political correctness in this town!  ;D

Again, I want to say: Balancing is difficult. For a geek like me, it makes a lot of fun, to investigate the buildings this way. It's not easy to choose the right buildings, if you want to run the settlement efficient. No, let me correct myself, it is very easy! Make firewood! As much as you can! But of cause, that makes no fun.  :P

I made some screenshots yesterday, just to show you my dfferent forests. The thick dense, ones with the "sleeping foresters" and the "industrial" with 2 foresters. The look of the thick forests are indeed much nicer. The third picture shows a new forest. If I want to play with closing forests, I´ll need more logs, so I started 2 new forests. You can see very clear, that there are only tiny trees, but new resources. No need for mature trees, to get fruit and animals. You can also see all of the things, I have in my inventory.

Offline Necora

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2017, 06:58:29 AM »
@Nilla Now to clothing? Another can of worms! Haha. The short answer is yes, I am adding more. I am also changing rope, and thinking of adding twine and pitch to tools to make new steel category tools, like one with a nice twine handle and one treated with pitch to make them last longer and more durable. These more advanced things, however, might not be in the pine set as I wanted this to be a basic level set. So they will be added to the larger smithy and tailor in the sherbrooke set most likely. I don't plan on adding bigger and better buildings to the pine set. It was all initially to be one large mod, so breaking it down into smaller ones has been a challenge!

The longer discussion is that clothing is, IMO, an unfortunately limited aspect of the game. I can see why, this is after all an originally simple survival game that we have made into something that barely resembles the original, with increased trade, products, chains in various mods. This is fantastic, but we are really stretching what we can do.

With clothing, we are limited by the fact that there appear to be only two levels. They seem to be controlled by a hidden flag, 'Clothing' which we see and 'ClothingWarm' which seems to be a sub flag of clothing, rather like protein etc. is a sub flag of edible food. As we only have 2 types, we can only really have 2 trade values (unless there is a third I don't know about). A 100 value top quality fur coat will be used in the same way as a 20 value vanilla winter coat in the same category, just the same way that a fine mature 100 value cheese would still be eaten as just a 2 value cheese as it is still just a protein, the same way that a fine aged wine will be drunk the same as moonshine as it is still just a luxury. So introducing furs, which historically have a lot of value, is limited in game as to what you can actually do with the fur coat especially if you want to trade it. We can, of course, just increase the value of the fur coat like @RedKetchup has done, but at the basic level it will still be consumed by your bannies at the same rate as a lower value winter coat, as it has the same warmth benefit so the increased value does not represent the usefulness of the coat. Now, IMO, you should very much get a good trade return on clothing. After all, it is a highly consumed necessity, so if you do produce enough to trade, you should be rewarded for being a good mayor and making sure your citizens have enough good clothing that you can sell the left overs for a good price. Unfortunately, the value of clothing is not set up in such a way. We could really do with at least one if not two new levels of clothing to increase value and start combining things. What I would like to do is be able to make a range of simple clothing, linen undergarments, leather coat, breeches etc. that can be combined into a third, high value clothing option of full out fitters or something which would have a high trade value and warmth value and can also account for high value fur coats. I mean, currently, our bannies are running around in nothing but a leather coat, and that seems a bit mean! Maybe this will be the reward, a trade only clothing category that uses other clothing (and adds things like shoes and fur hats... their real valuable use of fur) to make something with a good return.

Compare clothing to tools. Tools, at least, we can change the quality of in the template file. So we can have a quality and trade value that are linked together, and have as many categories or types as we wish. It would be way better if we could do the same for clothing, actually change the quality/warmth provided value of individual cloths, so you could increase the warmth given by a fur coat to represent the value of it, and make it so is is consumed less by the bannies.

I am also trying to find ways to make some of these things more consumable, like rope for example. I can make the dory be consumed by a fisherman, who takes 1 dory out to sea and a month later comes back with 200 lobster or something. Doing this a few times a year should give a nice return of lobster and makes more of a use for rope and lumber rather than just for trade once you've built a couple of buildings.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #84 on: March 23, 2017, 09:39:51 AM »
I can follow your thoughts @Necora and I agree, it's a pity about the clothes. It would have been nice, if there would be different kind of clothing, that would have a real influence on the game. Clothing is not so much different from luxury goods; it has very little impact on the gameplay. Unless you play the most harsh climate, you will hardly notice any difference, if people have warm clothes, normal clothes or no clothes at all!  :( 

So putting much effort in making a lot of different funny art of clothing, seems to be a waste of time: just another trading good! And I guess, there will probably be other more interesting trading goods to create. Of cause, you can set your own trading price, but as you say, the expensive fur coat isn't more valuable to the bani, than a simple coat of wool and leather. Same thing, you can let a baker bake a complicated birthday cake with 10 different ingredients worth 100 in trade. But if you label it grain, the Banni will grab some of these cakes and consume them, as likely as kernel of wheat. I've always wished, that there was a way to make food processing more valuable for the Banni, that he would need less, that unprocessed food can't be stored long, that processed food make the bani more productive or something like that. But as I understand; no one has found a way to "cheat" the game in a way like this.

What I really was asking for, when I asked about the linen clothes, was a way to make use of the linen cloth from the weaver and inderect of the flax from the gatherer. Now you have to sell it. It would be nice to have the possibility to make some vegan clothing, especially as the rawmaterial flax, is already there.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #85 on: March 23, 2017, 10:50:11 AM »
wow,NILLA we play so much different. yet at times we agree and play similar.lol you tend to always have trouble with having enough logs.mine is usually enough food. with the aging mods ,you are 4-5 times as big. you seem to use trading a lot more than i do.i normally only trade for seeds and livestock.not that i play right.i debate that with myself lately. with CC i have too many merchants i don't need and you need them.
    i was looking at trade values wrong. i saw the price of item against item and didn't take into consideration the total output per building for a year. i use my candles and furniture,22 each, for trades. i also trade survival coats and hide coats after i build up wool and furs for the banis.way i see it is i already have logs so furniture makes sence. the bees give me food and the wax for candles is a free bonus. i don't buy food unless i really need it. i do even swaps for variety. lately i have started to send surplus food to the trader as a safety.
    i started the pine forest to get the charcoal for the cider press. the sap i can use firewood. that may or may not be profitable as you say.but it makes sence to use what i already have and save a step. i have tested NECORA's mods a few times but i know he has made changes. i don't see me having all those forests just to make turpenine to trade. i am surprised you need so much to keep the still busy making whiskey.i haven't built 1 yet since it reads i need grain. i just recently got sorghum seeds planted.
     you seem to like micro-managing the banis. i do that with adam and eve starts for a few years. after a few groups of nomads,i use a float method. i set workers to work knowing they will run out of materials or hit their max limits. then those workers automatically become laborers to help clear land. plus with this down-time they can stock their houses or move goods around. the only big problem to this is if farmers get too far away from their fields. if the sap boiler runs out of sap,he just becomes a laborer for a while.same with the pine workers. just a different way of playing and using the mods.
      you said with 2 workers or gatherers you get more. but are you getting double?? i always thought we agreed that 2 on the same building does not normally give you 2x the output? if the second worker is obnly giving you 75% of the first,then that same worker will give 100% on a different building.other than doubling field sizes, i seldom put 2 workers on 1 place.
  where is everyone else at??? this site has been quiet lately i thought it would have done that when they all were rewriting codes to the community icon. even ABANDONED quit telling us stories.i think QUERY is busy at BL.do hope they are all ok.
   

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #86 on: March 24, 2017, 04:13:50 AM »
Yes, at times we do agree @brads3 ! :)

And of cause, since you play with real time aging:The first 50 years or so, there are more children and students, than in my vanilla aging and more mouths to feed for the adults. Since I play 4 times your speed, I need to build 4 times as much as you and need a lot of logs (and other building materials). And you are right, the CC merchants are very annoying. I wouldn't need many of them either. I use to buy building materials. I need a lot of it and avoid to build mines and quarries (ugly with a low productivity) and if I played CC, I would also buy most of the advanced building materials, too. Like Necora´s rope, they are mostly a loss to produce yourself.  I also use to buy some food, not that I use to have too little of it, more to balance the diet. And of cause, like you at the beginning seeds and animals.

It's right, you can't look at the trade values only, when you chose a good trading product. A high price isn't always the same as a good profit. The highest profit from one worker, that I have seen is the CC charcoalburner; a product with a low price. It's only worth 3, but it needs very little raw material (1 log gives you 11 charcoal, if I remember right) and the productivity is huge (more than 2000 each year.) That means a profit of around 6000! I haven't played the latest version of CC, so this might have changed. The same, what I will say about your precious candles: last time I played CC, candles wasn't a good trading product. It's not a loss to produce, but you need a lot a wax and the productivity is low, so the annual profit was less than 100. Of cause the best trading good is something, you don't need yourself; like the beeswax, but if the production numbers haven't changed, it's better to sell the wax and let the candlemaker go fishing. (or work as a second gatherer) ;)

I use to micromanage a lot in the North. In this game not so much; only if I have too much of something, like the wild animals, I might turn the trapper on and off every couple of years. As the lovely small houses only could hold a family of 3, I let the people swap houses, to get more children. I sometimes change the products I sell in the trading ports: Necoras mods have many products you can't use (yet) but the space in the small port is limited, so I sell one of these spare things at the time. And sometimes I change the production of some fields or of some of the shore fisher, so maybe you're right. I do micromanage more than I though, also in this game.  :-\

My experience is, you can't say, how much more a second (or 3 or 4) worker in a site gives. It's very different. It can be between 100% and 0. I can only recommend, to check it out. A good strategy is to start with just one (or 2 if it's a vanilla gatherer or fisher for 4 workers) and if you suddenly realize, that you need more food, it's faster to increase the number of workers in an existing site, than build a new.

I almost forgot; I played a few more years to study my forests and yes; the production in the dense forests is a little bit lower, but not so much, that it explains your numbers. The last 3 years the total average production was; pine forest; 810/1126, maple forest: 2460/2750. For the trapper it's hard to see a difference. It varies a lot and is low in both forests, (average 48). For some reason I don't understand, the dense pine forest makes 28% less, the dense maple forest only 10%. There must be some other reason, that yours give so little. Are all stones, iron and vanilla trees cleared out of the forest? Is the circle of the forest limited from buildings, mountains.....? Do you have enough free laborers to carry the stuff out of the woods or must the gatherers/trappers do it themselves? Is there enough room in close barns? Do the workers live far away or close? Many things can have an influence on productivity. Probably more than if there's an active forester in the forest or not.

Offline brads3

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #87 on: March 24, 2017, 08:28:24 AM »
after all that testing,we still don't have a solid answere.you still say to leave the foresters on.and i still say i shouldn't have to.lol i did go back a few pages and reread some of your notes. to get a good output i need to let the trees grow longer. leave the foresters on for 8-10 years should give good outputs. i do think a FO gatherer added  to the pine forester helps. i don't want to risk it and add 1 to the maple. i actually wonder if the vanilla items and NECORA's compete for spaces. my trappers did improve . like you,the skinner doesn't keep up so i have a surplus of wild animals.
    funny you should mention the CC stacks burner,i noticed a glitch yesterday with that.was using it to make furnace fuel to process iron.NECORA's mods changed the charcoal tag so the burner won't work.i'll have to move his mods below CC. minor adjustment.i agree with you on the CC production chains. they can be overwhelming and you always end up with too many of various items. i don;t think it was designed to balance.
     since the CC journey and then the community icon button,i haven't figured out my own game play.i have ran lots of tests. as i am watching checking numbers i slow down my play. even this game i have 15 laborers more than i should and that many houses short of where i should be. i wasn't running short of anything other than the iron glitch. i get where i feel like i am fumbling around and can't get into a rythm. like i am losing my focus i guess.not sure why.
         i upgraded to the 1.07 but left most mods as 1.06. the CC journey was just before the 1.07. i have only added a couple mods to the community icon.
the way i set my game and mod order works good. i have to move the CC up above NECORA's and i might turn on the immortal tree mod to see if it helps these forests.

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #88 on: March 24, 2017, 09:59:53 AM »
I'm sorry Brads, if I influenced you, to look too much on the numbers.  :-[  It's my way of playing, I know, it's not for everyone. And I'm sure, you're right about CC. It's not designed to be balanced. But still it works. If you enjoy playing it, don't look too much into the numbers. Make what you like to make, produce what you feel right. The way I see it, some buildings are terribly overpowered, others make a huge  loss, but it doesn't really matter. Let the "good one" support the people, and you can afford to "play around" with the "bad". It works. The main thing is, that you enjoy the game. :)

Offline Nilla

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Re: Testing Necora´s Canadian mods
« Reply #89 on: March 25, 2017, 09:57:59 AM »
I have decided to leave Monstowns. It's a good town. It will do very well without me.

A summary of my testing. I like Necora´s mods. The design has its own personal look; very nice and sweet. I also very much like the Canadian theme, with special products and new chains. It's a WIP. There are some "lose ends"; products, that can only be used for trade, so far. The thing I've written most about; the balancing, isn't as bad as my long texts might imply. But of cause, some adjustments here and there, could give an improvement. But I think, it's important, for you @Necora and for every other modder, that you have some kind of thought, when you set the production numbers and trade value of a product. What should the output be, related to outer buildings? What is the use of this product? Does it replace anything? Is it harder or easier to produce my way? Is it hard to get the rawmaterial? ......  I do realize, that it's not easy, to set the right numbers, even if you have something in mind. That it needs a lot of testing. If you want to, I would be pleased to test your future expansions!