Trap Line

[QueryEverything]

@Necora oh wow, I didn't think it would work the same, but, I suppose, herdsman are 'hunting', but in a defined area.
How interesting, thanks for that

[Necora]

Well it turns out it is not possible for a wild resource to drop two items, only one. I was hoping there could be a beaver lodge or grouse nest or trapped coyote on the ground, which when the trapper harvested it, it produced both game meat and pelts. But alas, this will never be.

So there are a couple of options, let me know what you think is the best... or if you can think of any more...

1) We duplicate the natural resources, and pay around with spawn chance and timing. For each duplicate, one will produce meat and the other fur or feathers or pelts depending on the animal. Now, this might turn out to be a lot of added resources, so might be too much.

2) Each natural resource produces 1 item, a generic 'Game' resource, or it could be 'Beaver', 'Coyote', 'Grouse' etc. Initially, these are not usable, they are textiles. They then get processed by a second building, that turns them into meat and furs etc. I'm not sure if this will be possible with multiple species, we might have to have one butcher type building for each one, the same way that CC has butchers for cows, deer, sheep etc. that turn one species into multiple products.

[Necora]

I forgot the pictures...

[QueryEverything]

Genius @Necora back in the car again, I'll be back late tonight and have a think.
A production line wouldn't be bad, with a companion protein storage and 'textiles' storage to go with it, like a little butchers shed.
Why not?  Most hunters would process their stock on site, trap, then butcher, then store.  Waste nothing.
Companion to Deep Forest & your Forestry, I am liking the possibilities

[brads3]

i would think it could be coded the same as deer and just change "deer" to wild game.get meat,skins instead of leather,and bonemeal.thinking outside the box we create a building that acts as a butcher taking in wild game and giving out various meat cuts of various animals,similar deisng as KIDD did with the garden seeds.just don't say the word "butcher",that gets people hung up. since the way butchers have been set so far,they will only take 1 type.but the idea has been done.
  all that being said,you still have the main problem of area limits. my understanding is 1 game tile can create 1 item rather that be a tree,rock,crop,fish,berry,apple,etc. so we can only produce so much and the more different items we have ,the less and less of each we will get. this is why i came up with the idea to "fake it" so to speak. the forest could be redesigned to create "wild items" and then a worker at a shop could split the "wild item" into the different types of goods he wants.be it fruit and veggys or roots, maple sap,apples,pine,etc. each shop would use the "wild item" and give out different goods but that again will take several shops. and of course it is a modding nightmare.it would function well though. 1 gatherer collecting everything on a map. he stores those goodies and the shop keepers collect them. say the shop keeper gets 1 basket of wild whatever,he can then produce 10 of several items from it.
   take meat,we'll call it "wild game". gatherer comes back with the wild items and stores them. the trapper goes gets a basket of 25 wild items sorts them in a shed or by a beaver lodge and produces say 25 rabbit stew meat,10 wild turkeys,100 bear steaks,and 50 deer roasts. thus you can get more items than you could have by being limited by the area squares. another shop would take the wild items and sort it giving you maple sap,apples,pine,etc in whatever amounts the modder chose. or the sap boiler could take the wild items directly and so could the cider press. the idea being that the so called "wild item" is anything collected in the forest. it isn't confined to being a fruit,veggy,root,piece of deer,a bucket of apples,etc. it is everything until the shop or press or butcher sorts it.
   i hope you all can understand the my rough explanation of the concept. it's thinking outside the box but using the game limits to our advantage.
thing is it does not have to be all designed at one time. set the gathering item as a more generic term like wild items so you have flexability to add to it later. instead of naming the item like wild game,then you are limited to meat and skins,furs,leater.the more generic term leaves open the possabilty of further adding to th forest resources later.somebody wants honey,they create a beekeeper shop that takes "wild item" and produces honey.somebody wants elephant ivory on a more tropical map,they could do the same thing using the same gathering codes even. i like things simple. to me this would save modders time in developing. they wouldn't have to reinvent code,they could copy it and just change a term or the gathering hut building and add a shop. the buildings may have to be designed each time but not the coding.
   taking the trapping idea. use decorations of traps,beaver lodge,maybe some foxes,rabits, and they can be placed in the forest or outside on the edge of the circle.develop a cleaning area with a nice table to clean and skin the animals. decide and tweak the output production numbers.then do you want a game meat butcher? add a butcher to take wild game and split into various meat cuts. the furs and skins can go to a taxidermist to be further developed into clothing options.
  to me this is the best way to get around the game limits. and i hope it would make the modders work easier so they don't have to spend lots of time rewriting code.

[Nominix]

taking the trapping idea. use decorations of traps,beaver lodge,maybe some foxes,rabits, and they can be placed in the forest or outside on the edge of the circle.develop a cleaning area with a nice table to clean and skin the animals. decide and tweak the output production numbers.then do you want a game meat butcher? add a butcher to take wild game and split into various meat cuts. the furs and skins can go to a taxidermist to be further developed into clothing options.
  to me this is the best way to get around the game limits. and i hope it would make the modders work easier so they don't have to spend lots of time rewriting code.

Sounds like a very efficient use of available assets. I think the meat aspect is a bit odd as Im not sure many people outside the trapper themselves would eat the meat as trap lines were many miles long and even today checking a trap line can take several days so the meat is mostly if not totally spoiled.

Another point of interest is that steel traps were not really in use. The main traps were deadfalls and snares. A deadfall is just a heavy log propped up by some very light trigger that when the animal goes after the bait it hits the trigger (normally a small stick) and the log falls on it killing it instantly and snares were hung 6 inches off the ground along a game path and the animal simply walked into it, head first, getting the loop of the snare around its neck. The snare (most of the time) didnt strangle the animal but instead kinked and prevented the animal from backing out of it. There are a number of variations on snares but most were loop type or drag sets. The drag set allows the animal to run and drags a trebble hook or any kind of hook that gets caught in the brush and tangles it up thus holding it in place till the trapper checks his lines.

My point being - youd never be able to see the traps so there really is no reason to show the graphics of them. I have taken people up to a deadfall and pointed at it and they still couldnt tell it was anything other than the normal forest floor debris and snares are so thin they are easily mistaken for small branches of a tree.So if the graphics become an issue, I dont think it would hurt anything at all to leave them out.Not to say I dont like the idea of graphics for them, I just dont think it should be a roadblock. If that makes sense. There is also the meat thing...if you have deadfalls at the end of your trap line...yeah I wouldnt eat it unless i was going to die of starvation and even then...it would be questionable if you could even keep it down. Normally the carcases spcifically the glands and organs were chopped up and left to rot in a container to be used as bait.

From my perspective and what I really am looking at when I want to go in game and start setting up a trap line is that I want my town to be built on the fur trade so I need to procure lots of furs and get good prices for them. So if there is a way to get multiple specific types of furs this would be Ideal. and if it is possible to somehow tie the map conditions (Harsh,mild ect) to the furs this would also be ideal. The colder and harsher the climate the better your furs will be , the more you can trade them for. So im ok with no graphics and no meat stuff as its realistic that you wouldnt really see or have those, but id really like to have a diverse selection of furs and fur pricing as well as perhaps a clothing line using them. The economy surrounding the furs is much much more important to me than anything else. But thats just me.

[kid1293]

One VERY good thing about Brads idea is that those 'wild items' can be set
non-edible and be stored indefinitely and traded if you want.

Every modder has an open possibilty to create a gathering place for just
one product. A small (I like that) building for gathering mushrooms
can skip the 'wild items' and produce mushrooms directly.

Or as Nominix said - fur trade.

And if you put -
int _maxInstances = 3;
in the code, you can limit the number of buildings.
It is so easy to cheat and spam the map with buildings.

[Necora]

i would think it could be coded the same as deer and just change "deer" to wild game.get meat,skins instead of leather,and bonemeal.

Unfortunately not, some things can have multiple items, all of the animals can, but others can not, so static spawning resources can not. If you code them like deer, they produce nothing.

I find the wild items idea interesting. There are a couple of issues though, first, it will not be compatible with any other mods, unless everyone does it. Depending on which is on top, either the new wild items will not spawn or the original items will not spawn, and the related gatherers will be useless. Second, it means at least one other profession on top of the gatherer to sort it, which makes it harder for early game playing. A gatherer is one of the first buildings I build because it is instant, reliable food, almost. Plus, there will be an awful lot of food to be broken into, so you're talking either a slow supply of each at random, which will not help with production chains, or a lot of different buildings making one particular resource (or a group of a couple of resources). Either way, I have the feeling this might be just too much for the whole forest area to be done like this.

Also, the limits of a radius are an important part of the game, it prevents the 'something from nothing' conundrum. Producing 100 of one item from 25 of another, even if the trade value is high in the second item, is a bit of a stretch in my opinion.

That being said, the generic resource would work on a small scale, such as the idea of a generic fur resource if it only gets turned into a handful of random outputs rather than a whole suit of possibilities. We could have the 'wild game' harvested by a trapper, this wild game is spawned by vanilla trees and any other tree combination you want, and the trapper goes out and 'traps' them. It is then taken to a skinner or related person who turns takes 1 wild game and turns randomly into fur, pelts, feathers, meat etc.

I'm sure we can get the wild game to spawn as 'F-variants' so that we can have some variation in beaver lodges, fox holes, grouse nests etc. on the map.

One VERY good thing about Brads idea is that those 'wild items' can be set
non-edible and be stored indefinitely and traded if you want.

Every modder has an open possibilty to create a gathering place for just
one product. A small (I like that) building for gathering mushrooms
can skip the 'wild items' and produce mushrooms directly.

Or as Nominix said - fur trade.

And if you put -
int _maxInstances = 3;
in the code, you can limit the number of buildings.
It is so easy to cheat and spam the map with buildings.

Yup the non-edible part is good, I've started doing that with some of the other things like maple sap. But, you would have to re-introduce mushrooms, for example, because this would over-ride current gatherer items.

From my perspective and what I really am looking at when I want to go in game and start setting up a trap line is that I want my town to be built on the fur trade so I need to procure lots of furs and get good prices for them. So if there is a way to get multiple specific types of furs this would be Ideal. and if it is possible to somehow tie the map conditions (Harsh,mild ect) to the furs this would also be ideal. The colder and harsher the climate the better your furs will be , the more you can trade them for. So im ok with no graphics and no meat stuff as its realistic that you wouldnt really see or have those, but id really like to have a diverse selection of furs and fur pricing as well as perhaps a clothing line using them. The economy surrounding the furs is much much more important to me than anything else. But thats just me.

Hmm, I actually agree about the meat. I added it because I know it has been asked for before. My interest is purely in the furs too. If we don't do meat, we can have some diversity in furs, like pelts, furs, feathers, and any more you can think of.

I'm not sure if we can link values like that though. It might be a case of having a different set of furs spawned under different start conditions, but I've not had a go a them so I don't know how it works. We could also have an override mod, so if you decided you wanted to start on the colder maps you could just load the 'cold fur' override on top.

[Nominix]

Yeah that sounds great, lets not do the meats and add in a few specifics. Id say add in anything that sounds appropriate to you for the time. The ones you mentioned sound great.
I think I misread your reply so i edited mine Doing too many things at once today.

[kid1293]

Let me get this straight.
Are you going to spawn these items? (furs)
Or are they automagically produced in a small building?

[RedKetchup]

if you are making spawn furs... better to take my .rsc because if you change the numbers.... you will change mine too
and depending if people put yours first or mine first.... people will have 2 different results

[Necora]

Let me get this straight.
Are you going to spawn these items? (furs)
Or are they automagically produced in a small building?

I was going to spawn individual animals, but that is not feasable. So instead I am going to spawn a generic 'NaturalResourceWildAnimal' which will be harvested by a trapper to produce a generic 'RawMaterialWildAnimal', which will be a textile. This can then be processed by a butcher or a skinner to produce furs, feathers, meat, what ever you want.

So @RedKetchup you furs can be produced from the wild animal which will keep your numbers the same.

[QueryEverything]

@RedKetchup I found the fur drop extremely low.  It took months, and months to build the hospital because with 2 towers there just wasn't enough fur   I ended up not setting up any more hospitals on the map.

If meat was taken out of the equation (for realism as well as ease of getting the game to work), I'm fine with that.   It just seems odd to me that a whole beast wouldn't be used in some way - but - that being said, I didn't live in Colonial or Medieval times, hahaha!    But, I get why

[RedKetchup]

we cant make drop 2 things in same time, a meat AND a fur (or leather)...

so it is totally random you ve got bad RNG probably.

setup a 3rd and a 4th towers maybe a good option

[QueryEverything]

Good plan, starting a new map today, I'll check it out   Thank you @RedKetchup