Author Topic: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets  (Read 2737 times)

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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2017, 08:44:56 AM »
there is a thing though: bannies wont go do all the markets to get all they need, they go to the first one they see and choose inside what is available in there. they are not human.
like they say in Battlestar Galactica about cylons... they dont have a brain, they have a program instead in their head ^^


so if you have 2 markets, 1 with just vegs and 1 with all type of food. if the closest is the one with only vegs ... they will get only vegs.
us, human, when we make our errants, if we need to go at the butchery we will go, and then we will go buy our fruits and vegs to the fruit store.... and if we need bread, we will go to the bakery ...

bannies dont do that, they go for the first one only.
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Offline Maldrick

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2017, 08:46:22 AM »
@brads3 haha Don't thank me. I've never seen it happen.  There was a thread about it on the reddit like a year ago, maybe more.  Guy reported similar behavior you observed, although without the distances I think.  Some other people confirmed they've had the same thing happen.  Wish I bookmarked the thread...finding old threads there isn't the easiest.

Like I said, I've never seen it happen, not that I've particularly looked.  Could very well be a glitch.  Like the Bigfoot or Loch Ness monster of Banished. :P

But if it is a glitch, then what the hell is the radius for? 😂
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Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2017, 08:48:04 AM »
and about % of vegetable : you cannot say % of edible vegetable and another different % of non-edible vegetable.
it is only x% vegetable (no matter if it has the edible flag (or the lack of edible flag which we call non-edible)
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Offline smurphys7

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2017, 08:48:22 AM »
Right.  That's why the Specialized Market Carts didn't work :(

https://streamable.com/zzcdy

Many homes had only one type of home.  Some had two types -- which probably means they were closest to one Market Cart when they were low on food.  Then, later either someone else in the house got the "low food" call or the original person was in a different location and a different market cart was closer.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2017, 08:51:03 AM »
if i go back to my cylons vs bannies comparasion.... it is cool to have cities with some fruit stalls... meat stalls... grain stalls... it looks good, but it is bad, very bad for the game mechanics.
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Offline Maldrick

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2017, 08:53:38 AM »
Yeah that's why I try to use them judiciously.  Like for supplying production buildings.  Houses get general markets.
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Offline kralyerg

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2017, 09:27:47 AM »
The CC Edibles Market does have an issue, yes.  It is set to store the Edibles flag alone, and doesn't concern itself with the food groups.


Code: [Select]
MarketDescription market
{
float _fillLimit = 0.99;

FillType _fillType
[
{
RawMaterialFlags _flags = Edible;
float _ratio = 0.99;
}
]
}

This was done because there are some resources that have a food group flag, but not the Edible flag (like Flour. Grain but not Edible).  If it was made to accept the 4 food groups equally, then people may complain that their market was getting filled with food no one could eat.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2017, 09:30:06 AM »
so it can be filled with 100% of brocoli ?
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Offline Maldrick

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2017, 10:03:08 AM »
Very interesting, @kralyerg .  Thanks for the clarification.

Just tossing this out...You guys who mod have any thoughts about using those two unused flags for inedible food and water?  Having control of those separate from food would be handy.  Occurred to me recently playing with a lot more mods that process food and use water.  Considering there's 4 food types, intermediaries for processing, processed foods of multiple types, and water all on one flag that's quite a lot.   And some of it isn't used for food all the time.
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Offline smurphys7

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2017, 10:13:08 AM »
The Broccoli town is a stress test/clear and simple example.  Here are two towns that are more normalish examples: 

1) CheesyBreadIsLife Album.  There are separate areas for Cows, Wheat, Tomatos and Cherries/Apples.  Placing regular markets like I do now has the issue of all the small quantity of specialty goods wasting my Vendor's time.  Rather than bringing in the food group that isn't produced in the area, the Vendors constantly try to keep an even stockpile of things like Industrial Fuel, Stone, Iron, Lumber, Reeds, Leather, Silver Ore, Gold Ore, Logs, etc.  If I would make an Edibles Market in any area that Edibles Market would fill with the local good.  Market Carts simply do not function to provide people with each food group.

2) The Town of Independence Flyover Video: No Trading, no farming, no animals harmed.  There lots of Gathering Stations.  Some stations include Chestnut trees.  Vegetables are Tinned into Soup to create grains.  There's an area for producing Building Supplies and Homewares.  The town must be spread out.  Again, regular markets have issues because Vendors waste time moving Tin, Glassware, Lumber, etc. around.  Edibles Markets fill with the local goods. 

As a side, I put New Medieval Town's Food Stores through the Broccoli Test.  The results were good. 

It seems like my first option is to play in such a way where all goods are produced in each area.  By playing in such a way I probably wouldn't build any markets whatsoever.  Basically, General Markets and Edibles Markets seem to serve no purpose whatsoever for me.  The only time they would actually work would be a in a situation where I don't actually need them.

My second option is to play with more mods.  I normally like to play with as few mods as possible on each town.  Playing with ideally one mod or two at a time makes it easier to switch between towns with different mod load outs.  Also, I can more easily share my towns with others people.

Offline RedKetchup

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2017, 10:17:43 AM »
As a side, I put New Medieval Town's Food Stores through the Broccoli Test.  The results were good. 

yeah those are from me :) (everything with "medieval" in front of the name are from me , from new medieval town ( included in megamod :) )
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Offline smurphys7

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2017, 10:26:02 AM »
I love the work you do :)  I always recommend some of your stuff when someone is too overwhelmed by some of the big mods but wants more cool toys. 

On to the Edibles Markets again: right now I don't understand their purpose.  My understanding is the purpose of the markets is to collect a wide variety of goods from all over and collect the diversity in one place.  Currently, the Edibles Market takes the closest food and moves it closer.  The citizens in town would have taken the same food themselves from the barn.  Sure, the Edibles Market moved food closer but it didn't help amalgamate a bunch of different barns that hold different products. 

EDIT If any market functioned like a standard market or RK's Food Store, but only had the tags: Grain, Protein, Fruit, Vegetable, Tool, Clothing Fuel, then it would provide for any area of homes.  Market Carts would then be used to move specific goods to specific places.  Though, a Food, Fuel, Clothes and Tools market might be too powerful.  I think it would be so good I might skip making it most of the time.  I think sometimes I would appreciate the ease of use.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2017, 10:31:27 AM by smurphys7 »

Offline brads3

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2017, 10:46:45 AM »
since many of the items are tagged now under the 1.07 flags,you might want to try adding a small mod that is just a 1.06 market. an older mod won't store the new items. this will force it to stock food,tools,and clothing more.SLINK has a general market in her set. there is a general store mod.by adding just a small market mod,you could use it in your different mods easily.similar idea would work with 1.06 or earlier barn mods as well.

Offline smurphys7

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2017, 02:27:45 AM »
I have solved my issue.  In short, I need to fill my markets with goods of each tag.  If all the other tags are full, and remain full, the vendors will focus on moving only the things I want: four food groups, fuel, tools, and clothing. 

I wasn't setting a high enough Max Limit for a few specific items: Construction, Industrial Fuel, Fuel, Iron and Raw Materials.  Also, I need to let these goods build up to a decent sized inventory for each market I have placed.

What I was doing was making all those goods "on demand".   Tool Production, for example, requires Industrial Fuel, Iron and Logs.  I kept my Limits on these items very low.  As these items were produced they were turned into tools.  My markets constantly attempted to stock these items at EVERY market rather than stocking what I wanted.  Instead, now I will produce large amount of these items (and others) and keep each stockpile high.

Now the markets stay full of Fuel, Industrial Fuel, Iron, Lumber etc. and focus on bringing in other things.

Offline brads3

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Re: Edibles Markets and Standard Markets Behave different. Help me use Markets
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2017, 07:16:50 AM »
that is interesting info that could be very useful.please keep us informed on how it goes or more trivia info you run into. sometimes little thngs like this matter lots.thank you