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The North - Help...

Started by Paeng, October 27, 2016, 10:45:06 AM

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Paeng

Another question about traders - I had one coming in, but he rfused ALL goods I wanted to trade, even the "standards" like firewood, tools etc... all my goods on stock were greyed out.

I dimly remember reading sth about it, but can't find it... now this question came up on the other site as well, and I can't answer it - so, can you clue me in again if there are certain restrictions, like if any particular trader will not accept the "standard" goods?

Tia
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Nilla

If you´re playing the North; it must be the merchant with seeds and animals. He takes nothing except coins. (Just a small comment: firewood is no "standard" trade good, if you play the North, the woodchopper only makes a small profit. Most other goods are much better)

Tom Sawyer

Yes, it must be a seed merchant. They want cash. I made a note in the Wiki.

www.banishedventures.com/wiki/tradingpost/

Paeng

Thanks again for the heads-up...  :)


Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 12, 2017, 08:06:43 AMI made a note in the Wiki.
That's good, I keep sending people there  ;)
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Paeng

#79
Playing a round of 4.5 with "Nomads"...

Good fun to start with a whole load of people... needs some re-adjustment (again), I had some difficulties to get the first gen housed while they can still make kids... LOL

Anyway, some things that I'm not sure about -

* I build Pastures for RedK's milk cows - but a 10x20 is only good for 5 animals (instead of 10)?
Is that by design? If so - urghhh...  :-\

* the Red Dairy has no inventory icons for milk?
Should I put it above the North? Or is it a known issue?

* I would have expected Nomads to be uneducated?
I did not check at first, but 3, 4 years in - they all seem educated...

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RedKetchup

the north has milk LivestockMilkyCow.rsc , probably the milk icon missing comes for it.

cause there is a testing from red creamery 1.1 done 5 mins ago :

screenshot : all icons there
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Abandoned

I had the problem with the missing milk icon when I used red creamery in the North, I thought the problem was connected to the two different black and white cows.  I had the red creamery loaded after the North.  Next time I will load red creamery before the North.  It looks so nice with the North's red houses. Your town looks really nice @Paeng

I also thought several times that I had an educated nomad, very strange.  I was a little busy struggling with tool production and a bad apple orchard so never investigated the problem further.

Tom Sawyer

#82
Quote from: Paeng
* I build Pastures for RedK's milk cows - but a 10x20 is only good for 5 animals (instead of 10)?
Is that by design? If so - urghhh...  :-\

Yes, I made changes to livestock and also to the dairy cow to integrate it in the Nordic food production if NMT is loaded. The original cow is extremely overpowered in the North. While crops are limited by climate you can spam pastures and take away the challenge by playing as cowboy. The idea was to increase the required area of cows to reduce the productivity in cold climate in a logical way. They need more space to get enough food over the year. Cattle needs 33 tiles instead of 20 to produce 160 beef and it is specialized in meat production. The dairy cow produces 160 beef too because its defined in the beef template. By the additional milk it just replaces the understated cattle and that would be a pity imo. A way to let them produce less meat was to increase the required area to 40. The milk makes it more productive but only if further processed in a creamery and the dairy cow is more expensive to purchase. So both animals have their place in game and players can think of their strategy. For 10 dairy cows you need a 20 x 20 pasture. You can build it until 24 x 24. The alternative is 12 cattle in a 20 x 20 for more meat but without milk production. I know, its unusual to build bigger pastures and to see a smaller herd but just a part of the Nordic environment.

I have one thought to it. Maybe its a better way to lower the beef production of the dairy cow via slower breeding. There are params to change offspring and ageing. If it works the cow could get 33 tiles too.

Quote from: Paeng
* the Red Dairy has no inventory icons for milk?
Should I put it above the North? Or is it a known issue?

Its the milky icon bug in the Nordic mod. I though I have fixed it. Will be in the next update. I think you get the item with creamery on top but Im not sure what happens with the balance. The Nordic milk is inedible with trade value of 1-2 like fish but does not come by merchants. And a cow gives 4 milk per month.

If interesting... with the values from above it means in theory 960 beef + 24 leather by 1 worker from a 20 x 20 pasture breeding cattle. And 800 beef + 480 milk +  20 leather by breeding dairy cows. More food but the milk has to be processed. Without a creamery the cattle is more productive.

Quote from: Paeng
* I would have expected Nomads to be uneducated?
I did not check at first, but 3, 4 years in - they all seem educated...

Actually nomads are always uneducated or there is something in the core game to make a few educated. I would like to have educated nomads or at least 50/50. But no variables for it in the modkit.

Paeng

#83
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 26, 2017, 03:05:20 AMA way to let them produce less meat was to increase the required area to 40.

I don't mind the lower productivity, as I'm not into number-crunching, so that's just a matter of getting used to...  :)

What bugs me about the smaller pasture is that I cannot split a herd with only 5 animals and am forced to build at least 20x20 - big property in e.g. a mountainous area... I'm not into huge "ranches" but smaller agri units, more like homesteads... plus I much prefer friesians to the ugly red beef, so I'm super happy with the (stand-alone) Red Creamery...  ::)

* might make another note for the wiki...)


Quote from: RedKetchup on January 25, 2017, 05:40:00 PMthe north has milk LivestockMilkyCow.rsc , probably the milk icon missing comes for it.

Yeah, I thought so - just didn't want to change load order and upset the balancing... But thanks for checking  :)


QuoteActually nomads are always uneducated

Yeah... I was just not sure whether your starting condition really starts off with "true" nomads at all, or if they are regular "citizens"...  ;)  For more difficulty I'd prefer them to be uneducated.



Another question -

I put in Tany's wonderful little flax chain - the Gatherer shows up with "coin" limit... but seems to work fine (tried it above and below the North)... how does that relate, and do I need to expect trouble from that?
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Tom Sawyer

Quote from: Paeng
I'm super happy with the (stand-alone) Red Creamery...

Yes, the red creamery looks very nice and fits well in the North. I did not know that it also brings the friesian cow. I will look at it and add it to the recommended mods. Also will make a wiki term for the cow.

Quote from: Paeng
For more difficulty I'd prefer them to be uneducated.

Haha, I like this idea. The nomads start condition should be changed into uneducated people. A big advantage to have about 40 people vs. the disadvantage of uneducated workers for a new interesting option and consistent to the term of Banished nomads. I think I cannot resist to add this idea. Thanks. :)

Quote from: Paeng
I put in Tany's wonderful little flax chain - the Gatherer shows up with "coin" limit... but seems to work fine (tried it above and below the North)... how does that relate, and do I need to expect trouble from that?

I like Tanys "wild mods" too and I think about to make it work as optional add-ons. It's difficult because her resources use trees as spawn point and the North too. So with Tany mods on top you lost the specific vegetation and gatherable firewood. Below you don't get her plants. So are you sure there is wild flax in your forest? The flag of flax is a problem too. In the North it has to be a material because textile is reserved for money. Probably your export merchants will bring you some flowers.^^

The flax chain I want in the North but actually as crop. And in a different way to produce linseed as additional product.

Paeng

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 26, 2017, 05:06:20 AMI did not know that it also brings the friesian cow.

Hmmm... now I'm not sure what kind of cow it is exactly - in any case, there is a black and white milk cow,... maybe better check with RedK what kind it is exactly  :)


Quotenomads. I think I cannot resist to add this idea.

Oh my... what did I do?!   ;D


QuoteSo with Tany mods on top you lost the specific vegetation and gatherable firewood.

Hmmm, I just checked - I have Tany's mod on top and I get the chain fine (wild growing flax, flax gatherer and linen weaver), and I can still collect firewood from the forest... what do you mean by specific vegetation? One difference I notice are some flowering bushes, but they are not too distracting...

Also there is a flax crop, trader goods (flax and cultured flax, I presume there is a seed too) - I did not get into those yet, as I'm pretty content with the output from the gatherer and making some linen for export. All in all I find this little mod really "round"... including the nice blue model   :)

There is also an option to gather all kinds of wild food - oats, rose hips, plus the usual berries and herbs etc... I must admit that I hardly use these options though... maybe in the very early stages, but after a while it just gets tedious and I usually forget it... same with the gatherable firewood, there is so little and it's spread so far across the map that I rather depend on a proper chopper. Again, this may be useful for the very tough survival starts of the Jack&Jill type - but that's not really my game, so these things play a very small role in my towns...

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RedKetchup

cattle is .... vanilla brown cattle

NMT has "Cow" black and white
CC has "Fresian cow" which is black and white ( i called mine cow they called it fresian)
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Tom Sawyer

And if imported in the North it is called Dairy Cow. I like this model. The cattle looks a bit too chunky. I thought about making a Galloway from it. For even more variety in cattle breeding.^^

Specific vegetation in the Nordic forest means a lot of blueberries but no roots and onions under pines (only under birches outside of the working forest). This is overwritten by the flora mods if on top and the reason of your rare firewood. I think, it drops only under birches in your game.

The gatherable firewood I ignore too in my test games, except of the start. Later it's the job of the gatherers hut and they do a good job there in winter when no wild food is available. The collecting tool is probably more a nice to have for most players. Btw, deadwood spawns mushrooms in summer. So, lazy guys can have a bit more mushrooms in their forest. :)


Paeng

#88
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 27, 2017, 05:49:07 AMThis is overwritten by the flora mods if on top and the reason of your rare firewood. I think, it drops only under birches in your game.

So what would numbers look like approximately? Here a shot from my current game for comparison...


Oh, and another thing - Rye and Rye Flour both have the same price (4)... shouldn't the (processed) flour be more expensive to buy / fetch a better price when sold?

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Nilla

That's not a typical menu from a Nordic forest. A gatherer in the North collects much more firewood, more berries, less mushrooms and much less roots and onions.

But if you like it this way; why not. I like the flora from @tanypredator too.