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Village Blogs / Re: Nilla-testing RK Editor Choice beta 08 -09-10-11
« Last post by Nilla on Today at 04:34:43 PM »
Yes I like our discussions! But I really don't know what to say! So, I will simply speak straight forward and ask you directly:
Don't you read what I write? I could understand that. I know, I write too long. But in that case, please don't pretend you do and tell me. Or is my English so bad, that it's hard to understand? You just said, it wasn't and I don't take you for a liar, so I guess this is not the case.

So, it looks like you think I'm stupid. I can assure you, I'm not! If I say repeatedly, that dung and flowers don't belong to the same "flag" in this mod and are not stored at the same place, they aren't! None of my "complains" about the dung, say anything about flowers. None of all my pictures from the stores with dung and fodder show any flowers. Maybe that could also be a clue.

It seems, that you're a clever and helpful guy, and I have a friendly advice; play a game with RKEd before you start giving advice and explain things. I guess, this would be nicer for everyone, including yourself and bring far better quality to your advice.

I will answer more tomorrow, if you still want to. I know you're a proud Fresh Canadian, so I might take a risk by speaking this clear. I really don't want to offend you and I hope I haven't.
Hi everyone. Wow long time since Ive played banished. In the past I had a mod that had stick oats and rose hips. Anyone remember what mod that was?
Village Images / Re: Random images from Castle Rock maps
« Last post by Gatherer on Today at 03:20:24 PM »
Exciting to see how this will end! I've never seen such a modern city in Banished before.

I hope I'll get to the end. Even with almost no trees on the map the game is starting to lag due to all the deco stuff.

I'm using the latest NatDiv with fix against the trees dying out but it doesn't seem to help. The grass is very aggressive and I have to keep clearing large swaths of land. At least it keeps the fuel count high.

that is decorated.nicely done.

Thanks. The modders sure did an amazing job creating all these deco toys to play with.
General Discussion / Re: Crash problem when Trader boat arrives
« Last post by KatD on Today at 03:18:39 PM »
@Nilla  Thanks for that Nilla, you were right, not enough food for 100pop
Village Blogs / Re: Abandoned - Springfield - Story 23
« Last post by Gatherer on Today at 03:00:52 PM »
We quickly added an extra farmer to each field and had them leave the baskets of crops for the laborers to pick up and we hoped for the best.

I've been wondering about this. What mod is this that the farmers leave the crops for the laborers to pick up? I don't recognize it from your mod list for this map.
Mod Discussions 107 / Re: THE NORTH 6
« Last post by Tom Sawyer on Today at 02:58:23 PM »
I'm sorry about your health problems. It seems many people here are somehow "banished" from normal healthy life. I will write you since I'm really interested in help with my wiki or some other things. For now the roadmap has changed to lead back in time to North 7 "Vikings". :)
Village Blogs / Re: Abandoned - Springfield - Story 23
« Last post by Abandoned on Today at 02:54:32 PM »
Chapter 4

  At the start of year 4, our priorities were logs, firewood, stone, and housing for our 3 homeless families.  In spring, 8 more migrators arrived.  They were cold and tired and did not want to travel any farther.  We would need more housing.  We added a third builder to our workforce.  With more laborers to help, we cleared the land for a fenceless cemetery and an orchard, thus adding logs and stone to the stockpile at the same time. 

  We wanted to tell the farmers to begin harvesting early but we were busy elsewhere and the  harvesting was already underway.  We quickly added an extra farmer to each field and had them leave the baskets of crops for the laborers to pick up and we hoped for the best.  It was definitely not the best.  We lost a considerable amount of corn.

  At least the year ended well. We had enough laborers to collect wild foods and cut trees, and we added another woodcutter to the workforce.    All our families had homes.  We began construction of a bee shelter.  Although we had no surplus firewood, no one was cold or hungry that winter.
He uses is a statement of fact, like it is blue, he is using is an action, like running, he used is an action in the past, like using a tool yesterday, he used to, is an action in the past, (mostly after it has ended), something he has stopped doing, like he made tools yesterday, but now he is a vendor, he is used to, something you are comfortable with, like a old wool sweater. Hope this is helpful.  :)

I again want you to understand that your mistakes a very minor. Where we live, Red and me we speak french, but North America is an english dominated so we have to learn english. My schooling is in both so I understand how a language can be difficult to learn.

When we discuss storage, flags are important to understand, sometimes they are different from what is written in the game toolbars. What is in a tool bar is to help the player understand what a resource is in simple words, not exactly what it is called in the code. Using these types of exact descriptions would only cause confusion. I have looked at what Red has made public, about his resources, and unless it has changed they have the same flag, custom 7. That is why flowers and fertilizer are placed in the same storage place.

I was thinking about the lack of specialized storage, (meaning for barns, and carts), a simple solution could be to use a version of the carts without a vendor. Instead of a market, they are a barn. It would work like the specialized stockpiles, but with only one flag for things that don't go there.

As I think about documentation, I have a good idea of what is needed. Again I have not discussed it with Red, so this is just an idea. You could have something like a spreadsheet, or charts similar to what has been done by CC, not a copy, where you can find information like Red posted in his answer about jewelry. This kind of document can help many people, and can be customized to fit what is best. If you take the raw numbers and make them public then many people will be happy. What it becomes is a slightly more detailed version of the tool tip, but all in one place.

I also think you could make something like a catalog where you explain the meaning of things like flags, production chains, and starting conditions. You can also present your choices, and why you made things work in your own, (the designer's) way. Here I am also thinking of "The North", since Tom Sawyer has written he is also interested in making some documentation. A simple file with images, (PDF), that show how things work, and explains things like; which cart will accept what resource. Thinking again of jewelry, you could show the production from start to end, again with examples. This can also help to understand how to create resources that need more than one thing, or use more than one building.

Where you can explain concepts like burn, how warm a house is. You can also explain how to make things so that it is easier for someone new to enjoy the mod. It can also have a section on tricks, and advice from experts like you. As I look at your canal problem, I could have written in the document, "sometimes it is better to use the levelling tool before you place the canal", or "it happens that some pieces will not always fit perfectly". If there are situations that a designer can't fix those can also be included, like "villagers will often walk over a ghosted fence, this a function of how ghosted objects work in the game, and it can not be avoided, or changed by a mod maker".

If you wanted to you could also show why building like the barber have a health feature. As you see I have a good idea of what can be done.  :)

I agree there is no best way to play, only a bad way when everybody dies.  ;)

I hope happiness is not a problem for you, but how long has it been since the tornado?

So more on balance:

I think you must account for all the factors when creating a balance formula, the cost of the building, the cost of the resources used and the time involved in production. This will give you and added value factor you can use to see how much a produced good is worth. This is often the cause of many problems of balance. Some you can fix by controlling resource rarity, others by playing with the numbers.

Terms: investment is the cost of building the production site, work cycle is how long it takes to make the product, input is what you need to make it, value is the trade cost of your input resources, output is what you get from the production. All values except time are in final trade value, for vanilla, logs 2, iron 5, stone 7. Custom resources use those programmed by the mod maker, for example flowers would be 1.

I will explain what I did so I don't have to create too many charts. I made an average of the values for vanilla buildings that are similar to what we are looking at. If you look at the building you can link them in groups that are similar, like production, mining, civics, housing. Some things like fields and pastures are important, and you can't change how they work. I also think that the way hunting/gathering/fishing work in the game makes them not important to these calculation.

I think you can use the following buildings as a examples of production, taylor, blacksmith, wood chopper, brewery. Originally I had included the herbalist, but it fits better with the gathering group. This gives us B, (the average vanilla build cost) = 370, and K, (the average of vanilla total work) = 21, but you can also add mining when the work in similar to that, KM = 70.

If you wanted to you could include things like mines and gathering but I feel such building work create instead of transform, so should only be used if the building works in a similar way.

With this information we can now look at what is being added. You need the building cost, = C, and total work of the new building = W. You also need the input number, = I, the input value, = V and output of the production = O.

We then create a formula.

Investment is: IN = C B

Work cycle is: CY = W K

Then final trade value is FT= ((IN+CY -1) x (IxV)) O

As an example something from CC, since I don't have the numbers from RK Ed.

Glass, building cost: 54 logs, 24 stone, 10 iron = 326, time (16 x 8) = 128

Input goods and value: firewood (8 x 4), sand (25 x 1) = 57, output uneducated is 7 glass.

So IN is 326 370 = .88

So CY = 128 21 = 6.09, or CY = 128 70 = 1.83

So O = 7

Considering how much work is need to make glass we go with KM instead of K

Then we have FT = ((.88+1.83 -1) x (32+25)) 7, or (1.71x57) 7 = 13,92, or 14.

With this information you can now adjust you production chain so it fit what you want it to do. You must remember this is a tool to help the mod maker see how his additions fit in with the basic values of the game. If you change work, input, or building cost then it will change the final result.  If you have a final number you can then change the other factor to get what you want. A simple spread can be programmed to do all the work. Having something like this makes it better than having to guess, and constantly change your numbers.

There is a logic to idea that things that are harder to make, or have a large investment will be rare, and traders will pay more for them.

I have used uneducated output because I think education should add value, unless it is something simple like wood chopping. Again a mod maker can adjust for this with in his code, like having the same output for both types of workers.

I had also started something similar for housing, but it need more work.

There you have it a bit complicated, but once you understand it, easy to use.

Impact craters? this place really is cursed.  ;)

I'm happy you like our discussions.  :)
Village Images / Re: Random images from Castle Rock maps
« Last post by brads3 on Today at 01:06:46 PM »
that is decorated.nicely done.
Village Images / Re: Random images from Castle Rock maps
« Last post by Nilla on Today at 12:09:44 PM »
Exciting to see how this will end! I've never seen such a modern city in Banished before.
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