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Natural Diversity v1.0

Started by Bartender, April 15, 2017, 03:15:06 PM

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Bartender

Thanks for testing it :)!

To be honest, I don't know what the exact numbers should be currently.. the spawn and growthrates of the grasses have been slightly altered in the 1.0.1 fix, which has an influence on the gathering rate. From the feedback I've been receiving it does seem that they are a bit overproductive. This is somewhat intentionally; I wanted to avoid making the early game too hard with so many of the basic buildings being locked behind the thatch requirement. The downside is that it creates a surplus once those early buildings have been constructed.

Since I'm currently designing a more extensive production chain for the grasses, I'm very curious about any feedback you might have on how to balance this :). This new production chain is also supposed to make balancing easier, at least from the players perspective, by giving you various refinement options through different buildings. Another thing I want to look at is to create cheaper options that don't require thatch for some of the basic buildings.

Currently I can't say much about what the new buildings are going to be like, mainly because most of them still need to be designed :P. The new grass gatherer is definitely going to be a tad smaller than the current one though, probably with a smaller working area too.

brads3

good morning,i would suggest not messing with the numbers yet. production numbers will depend on the rest of the chain which you are still developing.
   the game i am in now,i chose to burn a lot of the thatch early,so not to fill my stock pile. yesterday,i found out thatch is used in building pastures. i would assume a larger pasture would require more thatch.i don't have a thatch hut either yet.so far i am using as much thatch as i find clearing land. actually have used more than i expected.
  i have noticed too there seems to be areas of the map that the gthatch grows more than others.i have areas of my map that i cleared and nothing grows back.that is unusual.normally my trees would regrow and be thick around buildings. it would get so thick that i learned to clear and lay grass roads all over towns to stop it. now i don't have to do this  as much.this is a nice change and makes the game play different.we seem to have less fertile soils and rocky ground. it does not happena everywhere. my fodder field where i cleared trees and rocks and thatch,foods still grow. so the amount of thatch produced might matter more about where the hut is placed.
    i think most players are still testing various mods and adjusting to all the chnages.it is an ongoing process.the more you add to this mod and the thatch production chain the more understanding of the numbers we will have.

Bartender

I completely agree, the feedback on the current numbers is merely intended to give me a rough idea of where to go ;).

It's true that the v1.0.1. changes the spawning behaviour of both trees and grasses. Normally what you experience is that a closeby tree drops a seed somewhere close to your buildings, sprouting a new tree. I had to reduce this seed distance to prevent the trees from overgrowing the grassland areas. The same goes for the grasses, their seed distance is even smaller than for the trees. That's why if you clear an area, it will take a rather long time for it to get overgrown again.

If you don't cut any resources in a map, then eventually, after a very long time (at least 60-70 years) you will end up with a mixture of trees and grasses everywhere unfortunately. This is a byproduct of how their behaviour is coded in the game and I can't prevent it. Normally by that time a significant portion of the land will be in use though, so the effect will not me that visible.

brads3

on the seed distance,do you mean you made it farther apart or closer together?i wonder how much effect that has on other things to?  the maple and apple trees from NECOR's pine set seem to be slower at producing now. i tested it before and found that about 8 years of growth and the trees would produce good. i have the maple forester working for 20 years and the output seems to be lower than normal.if you look over at  the LOWESVILLE blog the forest isn't as thick either. as for the grass ad trees overtaking a map,i see spots that thatch grows thicker and then spots where there is less of it.same with the trees. it is like real world. you have meadows mixed in with forests not all at the same time.

QueryEverything

Okes, back with numbers @Bartender I ran for a few seasons last night.

1 Thatcher, in a radius with few other buildings average 75-95 per season.  2, did increase it to about 180.

I have found them sneak up all over the place, so I did a ~100x100 grid, and sure enough there is was, hidden in the trees as well.  No complaint, other than that perhaps it's getting a little congested in the forests.  There is strong competition with another mod, with the work around being I'm going to put them off in their own radius, and for now put the large thatcher in place with 'cut' only on.  No planting, to keep the grass down.

That's what you could do - "the Lawnmower".  Tiny shack, little Bannie with the title "Lawn Mower"  (or gatherer if you don't want to add a new profession).

:D  Just random ideas ...  lol
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RedKetchup

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Bartender

Quote from: brads3 on May 04, 2017, 04:30:32 PM
on the seed distance,do you mean you made it farther apart or closer together?i wonder how much effect that has on other things to?  the maple and apple trees from NECOR's pine set seem to be slower at producing now. i tested it before and found that about 8 years of growth and the trees would produce good. i have the maple forester working for 20 years and the output seems to be lower than normal.if you look over at  the LOWESVILLE blog the forest isn't as thick either. as for the grass ad trees overtaking a map,i see spots that thatch grows thicker and then spots where there is less of it.same with the trees. it is like real world. you have meadows mixed in with forests not all at the same time.
I set the seeding distance a bit closer together for the trees and grasses only. Any other resources should not be affected by this ;). For the first 60 or so years you will have patches of forest, patches of meadow and some mixed zones indeed, as it should be. it's only after that time that they will very slowly start to blend into each other. It's easy to avoid by removing some grasses or trees from specific places, because of the low seed distance they won't regrow there that easily.

Quote from: QueryEverything on May 04, 2017, 06:46:41 PM
Okes, back with numbers @Bartender I ran for a few seasons last night.

1 Thatcher, in a radius with few other buildings average 75-95 per season.  2, did increase it to about 180.

I have found them sneak up all over the place, so I did a ~100x100 grid, and sure enough there is was, hidden in the trees as well.  No complaint, other than that perhaps it's getting a little congested in the forests.  There is strong competition with another mod, with the work around being I'm going to put them off in their own radius, and for now put the large thatcher in place with 'cut' only on.  No planting, to keep the grass down.

That's what you could do - "the Lawnmower".  Tiny shack, little Bannie with the title "Lawn Mower"  (or gatherer if you don't want to add a new profession).

:D  Just random ideas ...  lol
Thanks for this @QueryEverything! These are slightly lower than my original numbers, which is a step in the right direction I think.

It's true that there are a lot of 'mixed' zones with both grasses and trees, and as I said these will slowly increase after a time. This is mostly a byproduct of how Mr. Luke coded the spawning behaviour, it wasn't really intended for two main resources coexisting and staying separate I think. At the same time, it is not completely unnatural either, as most natural forests and meadows would turn into patchy mixed zones if there is the right amount of grazing going on. (too much grazing turns everything into meadows, too little results in closed canopy forest).

I'm not sure if adding a special 'lawnmower' building would bring much more utility. If you use the 'clear grasses' menu option even in a small 10x10 area, it will take at least several years for the grasses to occupy that whole area again. If there are still trees growing there, it will take much longer.

Abandoned

@Bartender, great looking set, eager to try but I have not updated my game yet.  I am wondering if the Light version would work with 1.0.6 ?

Bartender

Thank you! The Light version should definitely work for 1.0.6., as it only replaces some models ;).

Abandoned

oh wonderful, thank you so much. :)