No Coal Mods interfere with Town Hall reports?

[Maldrick]

Hola!

Been slowly getting back into the game after my sidetrack.  Had only just upgraded to 107 just before, so I've been really excited about checking out the newer mods from the past couple months and have been playing with load orders and whatnot a bit.  Many thanks to the modders!

Quick question...I've tried two different mods that prevent coal from being used in houses as fuel, "Stop Burning Coal" and "No Coal in Houses," I think are the names.  I noticed with both that when enabled they do what they are supposed to, but the town hall no longer reports coal production or consumption.  Current inventory works, though.

Not being a modder, was curious why this happens.

Hope everybody is doing well!

[brads3]

haven't noticed that. the older mod townhalls do show production funny though since the list now is longer than the older mods are designed for.some of the numbers are without tags and the list is longer. it can be confusing until you get sed to it. or download and build a new townhall.KID's rowhouse mod has a townhall that you can place more than 1 of.i use it as an office building near production and mining areas to keep track.it also could depend on the mods you have loaded besides the "no coal" mod.the older limit flags in older mods are still there. the update does not fix that.so if the mod set coal under stone or iron then it will total as such now.

[Maldrick]

Heya, @brads3   Hope you've been doing well.

I tried both at top and bottom of list and same thing.  Just occurred to me that I'm using the simple charburner for coal that Tom Sawyer posted a few weeks ago.  And was using the old old one before with 106.  But I'm pretty sure I was getting the same thing with mines when I tried it with 106.  And even so, it's odd that it doesn't report consumption, either.  But I'll remove that and test it with mines to be sure.

I've got too many mods to list, but some of them are 106....Its just roads, deco stuff, houses, and barns besides Nordic School and the Sawmill, but I'll go back through and double check.  Could see that causing a conflict somehow, but thinking I should be safe with just houses and schools and such.  Worth isolating them and taking a look, though.  Didn't think about that.

All of my townhalls are listing the new limits accurately.  It's just this one report with one of those "no coal" mods enabled, really.  By the way, I was getting what you described with townhalls not listing all of the limits when I first started putting this set together with mods that use them.  Loaded the raw limits file that Embx posted and that seemed to fix it.  Wound up taking it out once I got some other stuff in there that had the resource file.  Not sure which mod added it though, so no way to know where it is in the load order...I might reload it at the top and see if that changes anything.

It's just weird because I noticed it happening on 106 before upgrading, too.

[brads3]

i am using the stopburncoal mod. have you loaded the CC compatibility 107 mod? that does help with the changes . i can use the old NMT with CC and the brick and clay are interchangeable. the storage takes time to get used to with the new flags. was glad EB gave us a new market set and then the new wharehouse.i use the my precious and have to remind myself that the gold doesn't store in the precious cellar. it would if i changed the order but i like the old smelter better.CC crew has had issues a few months and are out of order so to speak.some mods were updated not all.as for mod counts,yeah i know the feeling i am over 110.i do use a lot of older mods. most aren't affected by the new limit flags.

[Maldrick]

Yep, stopburncoal mod is the one I have loaded now.  I've tried removing a few different things but that's the only one that seems to change it.  I can live with it but would be nice to see that report, is all.

I have not tried the CC compatibility mod as I'm not using CC with this.  Maybe I'll give that a try.

[Maldrick]

Do you by any chance have a link to the correct CC compatibilty mod?  Not sure if I'm looking at the right thing.

EDIT:

So, I found the "compatibility 107" mod at BL.  Description says it's for an earlier version of CC, which was my confusion, but I tried it anyway.  No dice.

Next, I disabled every mod except stopburncoal and debug.  Tested it with a vanilla coal mine.  Still not working, so I'm certain it's just the mod itself.

@brads3 , Are you sure your "produced" and "used" reports work in the townhall with this mod active?  If so, do you happen to remember where you got it?  I just googled and pulled the one I have off of BanishedInfo.  It's kind of old but only one around besides the other I used before that was on Steam, also old.

[brads3]

http://blackliquidsoftware.com/index.php?/files/file/167-107-compatibility-for-megamod-007/

[embx61]

To play it save and you not know which mod uses the new limit resource file you could just add mine.

Just put on top of your modlist. If another mod have the same files incorporated it still just uses mine because it is on top but it get loaded just once as the names of the files are are the same in all mods.

As for no coal mod. I think that Kral mentioned one time that one of those mods change the flag from Fuel/Coal Fuel to Stone or Iron.
This is just bad.

I think to make it work is to make a little override and take the fuel out of "Fuel | CoalFuel" so people not taking the coal to their homes.

CoalFuel is used in CC and other mods as minerals.

[Maldrick]

@brads3 Thank you.  That's the one I found, also.  Appreciate it.  I find BL to be a little weird to navigate.

To play it save and you not know which mod uses the new limit resource file you could just add mine.

Just put on top of your modlist. If another mod have the same files incorporated it still just uses mine because it is on top but it get loaded just once as the names of the files are are the same in all mods.

As for no coal mod. I think that Kral mentioned one time that one of those mods change the flag from Fuel/Coal Fuel to Stone or Iron.
This is just bad.

I think to make it work is to make a little override and take the fuel out of "Fuel | CoalFuel" so people not taking the coal to their homes.

CoalFuel is used in CC and other mods as minerals.

@embx61 I have been using yours, actually.  Thank you for making it available.

And thank you for mentioning that because that's exactly what it appears to do.  Which is weird because it reports correctly in the coal (vanilla) / minerals (modded) category for "current" but the "produced" and "used" columns stay blank.  That's because its being added to Iron.  Wasn't even looking for that but that's exactly what it does.

Went into a vanilla game with just the resources, debug, and stopburncoal mods active.  Made a mine and produced 52 coal.  Then made a blacksmith and had it make steel tools using all of the coal (with 2 leftover) and the 50 iron you start with on easy start conditions.  Sure enough, it showed 100 used and 52 produced in the Iron category, with 0 and 0 respectively for minerals, but showed 2 "current"....accurately reflecting the 2 leftover coal.

Interesting that it does that.  I've never looked at the modkit so I have no idea, but purely out of curiosity do you know why it's done this way with these mods?

Edit: After posting I re-read the last part of your post and I got ya....The workaround is to change the flag for the resource not what the houses do.  Interesting.

And good to know.  It would be nice to have that report working, but nothing game breaking, of course.

[embx61]

Because those modders did not know any better I guess.

We had no added 10 flags then either.

What they did was changed the flag from Fuel or coalfuel to Iron so people would not burn it in there homes.

Coal is flagged as Fuel/CoalFuel

The homes it is set as storage Fuel and Edible.

So all what is flagged Edible (All foods unless modders take the Edible part out as for example with flour) and all what is flagged Fuel can be stored in houses.

It became more complicated when BL changed the CoalFuel flag to Minerals.
It is just a cosmetic change as just change the string in the string table but they added more raw materials to that CoalFuel Flag like sand, clay, etc.

I was never concerned with people burning coal. It was done in real life as well so realistic and it adds abit to the challenge.
I found in the beginning they take some coal but if enough fire wood is available they take less coal to burn but this is no guarantee.

So I never used a no burning coal mod and in my mods coal is just Fuel/CoalFuel so people will burn it in their homes.

But what is using coal? Vanilla Blacksmith and my Glassworks and that is it.
That is why I made the option in the Glassworks to make glass/glassware from either coal+sand or charcoal+sand.

Charcoal is made from firewood and has the Custom3 flag so bannies not taken it into their houses.

What can be done is give coal the Custom3 flag instead of Fuel/CoalFuel but a lot of Mods are running into problems if done unless there become a understanding with all the modders just like we did with assigning the flags/limits.

If I ever get to work on the Small Village Production addon I will do the same for the Blacksmith so it can use either coal or Charcoal.

[Maldrick]

Because those modders did not know any better I guess.

We had no added 10 flags then either.

What they did was changed the flag from Fuel or coalfuel to Iron so people would not burn it in there homes.

Coal is flagged as Fuel/CoalFuel

The homes it is set as storage Fuel and Edible.

So all what is flagged Edible (All foods unless modders take the Edible part out as for example with flour) and all what is flagged Fuel can be stored in houses.

It became more complicated when BL changed the CoalFuel flag to Minerals.
It is just a cosmetic change as just change the string in the string table but they added more raw materials to that CoalFuel Flag like sand, clay, etc.

I was never concerned with people burning coal. It was done in real life as well so realistic and it adds abit to the challenge.
I found in the beginning they take some coal but if enough fire wood is available they take less coal to burn but this is no guarantee.

So I never used a no burning coal mod and in my mods coal is just Fuel/CoalFuel so people will burn it in their homes.

But what is using coal? Vanilla Blacksmith and my Glassworks and that is it.
That is why I made the option in the Glassworks to make glass/glassware from either coal+sand or charcoal+sand.

Charcoal is made from firewood and has the Custom3 flag so bannies not taken it into their houses.

What can be done is give coal the Custom3 flag instead of Fuel/CoalFuel but a lot of Mods are running into problems if done unless there become a understanding with all the modders just like we did with assigning the flags/limits.

If I ever get to work on the Small Village Production addon I will do the same for the Blacksmith so it can use either coal or Charcoal.

Funny you mention that, because I was just sitting here thinking making a simple override changing coal to industrial fuel would be a great excuse to check out the modkit and poke around a bit.  I've been very interested in doing it for a long time and this would be an excellent reason to give it a go.

I've gathered the different flags for different fuels has caused a bit of stress for everyone involved.  I haven't been playing for a couple of months while wrapped up in another game, but I stop by the site almost daily and seem to remember a big thread about it from a couple weeks ago.  Actually, i think that was where I found Tom Sawyer's charburner for coal.  I guess it's just one of those things where where you want/need everything to be vairies depending on what mods you use.  CC has it's own way.  Everyone seems to have an idea of how it should be.  And you guys making mods have to figure out how to make it all fit.  I know you accommodate both coal and charcoal in your mod and, if memory serves, Discrepancy did the same with his forge.  It's just impossible to make everything fit, otherwise, it seems.

Personally, I don't really play with CC much.  When I was ready to move on from vanilla I found it to be a bit overwhelming and just started piecing together mods from Steam.  Then found this site and continued doing that.  I've scratched the surface on CC, but when I play it, I play it standalone and I never get far because I miss the sets of stuff I've put together from you guys, here and some old standbys I've picked up in other places.  My general goal with every map is to have it be able to run itself at the end, so mining isn't really an option, with mods at least, and avoiding it gives me a set of necessary imports to accommodate and the basis of an economy.  So having a mod like the charburner available is really handy because it gives a lot of flexibility with that.  As are the new limits, especially when they are separate ones on the chains you use to support trade, I'm finding. There was a companion mod that went with charburner a while back that made the vanilla blacksmith use charcoal, I think, and it was really handy.  But only affected that one smith.  With big towns mixing different building styles, that only goes so far and you are back to the original problem.

I guess that's my longwinded explanation as to why I'm using no coal in houses mods.  It's not so much that it's a problem in normal play as that's a hingepoint of my trading model and I like to have control of it as that's what makes the difference between a self sustaining town and one that needs constant player input.

What's really cool, though, is in my early tests of this current set I've put together, I see some great chains that I can use for trade for coal and iron in the end that have separate flags at most stages and I can really tweak it so things don't pile up in storage, some of them being yours, actually. That's always been the gotcha with my towns...at some point you almost always have to come back and clean out the extras even though the town ran fine on it's own for a great many years because of the limited flags, so I've been looking to take full advantage of the expanded limits, now, for this purpose.

[brads3]

the biggest challenge i find with the new flags is storage. most storage is set at 1.06. EB made some markets and i am sure KID has some barns. but those are more generic. the thatch and some CC items are harder to find storage for.i use NECORA's pine storage in forests more since it does store thatch.i also use piles with KID's covers.it takes re-learning though.i am so used to using SLINK's markets and TOM"s wharehouse since they stores logs and stone.do that and thatch will fill up the pile and then work will stop.

[embx61]

My markets store everything but you need several together to store it all.
All markets work that way in real life as well

Several separated stands but all together they sell about anything.

The Materials Store stores everything what normally goes on a stockpile and I added Fuel and Tools to that.

So Thatch I believe is Custom5(Construction) so should be stored in a market stand and the materials store as well.

The my old farm stand stores all Edible, tools, fuel, textiles, clothing, health, and Custom2(Fabrics)

[Maldrick]

the biggest challenge i find with the new flags is storage. most storage is set at 1.06. EB made some markets and i am sure KID has some barns. but those are more generic. the thatch and some CC items are harder to find storage for.i use NECORA's pine storage in forests more since it does store thatch.i also use piles with KID's covers.it takes re-learning though.i am so used to using SLINK's markets and TOM"s wharehouse since they stores logs and stone.do that and thatch will fill up the pile and then work will stop.

It's really hard to find specific storage for some things, for sure.  And I agree, the yard covers are amazing as they let you tailor what you are doing with a dedicated stockpile.  Absolutely love that mod and the new version with the barns is amazing.

But yeah, there's always an option for everything, but the more specific you get, your choices narrow greatly.  Like, there are nearly endless options for foods.  But just tools or just clothing...Or just alcohol...and it really gets down to it.

If you haven't, check out Discrepancy's Small Village storage as it may have what you are looking for.  He's got a barn and a narrow barn option for every flag, I think.  I've put off playing with it because I want to give his full set a go on its own, but looks like he's covered everything with that.

Also, doesn't CC 1.75 have sheds and cellars, etc for every flag?  I know there's a stall or wagon for each.  Really need to sink into CC at some point to learn my way around better and start playing with it more.

[Maldrick]

My markets store everything but you need several together to store it all.
All markets work that way in real life as well

Several separated stands but all together they sell about anything.

The Materials Store stores everything what normally goes on a stockpile and I added Fuel and Tools to that.

So Thatch I believe is Custom5(Construction) so should be stored in a market stand and the materials store as well.

The my old farm stand stores all Edible, tools, fuel, textiles, clothing, health, and Custom2(Fabrics)

Your markets are awesome, perfect really, and the new Materials Store really brings it home, IMO.  Going to be using them extensively on this current map, for sure.  Between those, Kid's Market Puzzle, and RK's markets in NMT everything is covered, most several times over.  Great to have that flexibility.