Adding To / Dividing mod sets

[kid1293]

This thread is created to sort out questions about mod sets.
Should they be divided?
Should they grow larger?

I have a lot of 'themed' mods. Not all items belong there.
They are just - created at the same time / added on request.

My Tiny mod is the first category. I made a lot of small/tiny mods and just added them together.
If I divide it I see no reason NOT to change other mods as well.
(Mods that comes to mind is Forest Outpost and Workplaces.)

They can be divided the easy way.
Keep all contents as they are and just change the icon location of each item.

Or the hard way.
Split up the code and build new non-themed mods. Under the usual icons - houses/transport/storage...

It can be made into a tiny mega-mod but that was not the real question.

What are your wishes? Do you care?

I invite other modders here to ask the same questions about their work.
We have so much to do just to release one mod and keep updating and changing it.
It's better to ask an open question.
Should have been a poll but I don't know how to formulate the questions.

Sincerely.

[Abandoned]

Good question, one that will take some thought.  I will be interested in hearing others opinions since I pick and choose a selection of mods I am not overrun with icons, but I would not like number of icons doubled.  For me definitely no mega mod.  For the most part I rather have the sets stay as sets, with their matching storage units etc.

Tiny I am use to using the original separate mods, perhaps keeping mod as is and giving alternative mod = set as it is now Tiny Set or Tiny Set Separate = player's choice don't use both.

Forest Outpost and Workplace hum.   Changing icon location of each item, does that mean Kid/Houses/Workplace Houses?  that would be best or Kid/Houses would be too many and too hard to find.

I do think there are quite a few mods that could be combined.

Giving this a lot more thought.

[Savidan]

I think it depends the way players will play the game since it's a sandbox game.
-Some will play for "decorative" purpose and will appreciate to get these building together since they fit perfect together.
That way we can try a lot of combination you made like we can did with your last mods  bakery and garden, or with the combination of building from NMT 2.04. There is a good part of fun doing that.


In an other way, some will play for "managing purpose" and so they will prefer to get "same kind of job" building together instead of browsing the whole bar each time they need something specific. (To take an example, I use your vegetable barn from tequila mod (great looking barn by the way  ^^) with the crop barn from Redketchup NMT 2.04 when I manage my production place. They are far away each other in the bar ^^

So there is no way to solve the problem thought and actually I do prefer you let it like that since I know were they are.

The problem is more to make it easyer for new players that could.
I tried once megamod ... I saw all the bar and was searching 2 min after something then ... I quit the game and remove the mod to pick each mod separetely.
The same as colonial charter by the way but I came back later to it since the mod bring a lot of features.

[brads3]

interesting question and i really don't think there is a right ansere or way to do it.we still have to click through the comm. icon to get to the mods so it doesn't save time either.i wouoldn't want all theme mods split up.we get used to it this way and any change will take time to learn again.
  i can undertstand some of what ABANDONED is getting at.this is where i think we went too far right with the comm icon. now every mod is placed under it. theme sets should be under it but an individual mod should stay under the old toolbar.take RED's NMT,a huge mod set that has its own icon.many parts but well groupded together.then take his small plymouth houses that was a separate mod before.they went under houses.if i upgrade that mod it moves under the comm icon. same thing with the hunting cabin or butcher. they are individual mods and fit under the food icon nicely.there is no reason to move them. it would add more icons to the RK comm icon bar.i understand why REd did it but from a player perspective i disagree with it.
   the comm icon bar was designed partly because the old toolbar was getting too long and confusing.some sets added to the toolbar themself and some went under the original icons.so now we put all mods under the comm icon and actually just moved the monster.LOL. there have been a couple discussions and i haven't seen a 1 answere fits all or makes most senece idea.to me i wish we put theme sets under it and some individual mods stayed to the old toolbar.say a house or butcher or mine or a clinic.if the the mod is 1 or 2 buildings,then the old way made sence.
   in your case ,and i don't want to sound critical,i do see some confusion.the houseboat mod set has 2 icon spots. 1 for the houseboats and 1 for the dock pieces and storage boat.it would fit under 1 icon as a set. you have several storage options including the covers and the small shed.they also seem split funny where all storage should be together.now the vegetable garden shed and sorter is 1 that we could have left together under the old food icon and stayed together.the small food markets could also be that way. the worplace set and colonial or FO are fine under the theme icon.
   i think ABANDONED's main argument is she is lost.she looks for things where they were before which has changed.then scratches her head and searches around.this is why i say it takes time to re-learn the system.the more you do it ,the more used to it you get.

[kid1293]

You're right @brads3 , some polishing may be needed. BUT that is no excuse to update
a large mod. If it works, don't touch it


@Savidan , you seem to come to the same conclusion.


One argument is what can happen in the future: Are we growing too large for ONE toolbar?
Horrible thought but that may be needed with more team-works. Your/my toolbar?

[adelegarland]

I'd like to chime in here, as a player more than a modder, I like the small sets.  no offense to the big ones, but keeping large sets up to date with all the additions and changes seems to be difficult.  Individual mods, and smaller sets are perfect.   Finding them on the toolbar was an issue at first, but as time has passed, and I've learned to navigate better, I like having them in their own categories.  I get used to finding them under each author's button and don't do much searching. (once Ive gotten used to where things are) 
One thing to add:  A favorites button, where we could move our startups and most used mods so that we can access them faster.   I think that is a suggestion for Luke. 
There you go, my 2 cents!

[kid1293]

@Abandoned and @adelegarland - two different views.

As a true diplomat (opportunist ) I have taken the easy road.
A new version is in download. The old version is intact.

That was Tiny.

Other modders have the same problem and I am eager to hear their voices and their solutions.
Keep the thread going.

[Abandoned]

@brads3 no problem here, I am not lost at all.  I like the community tool bar very much and have been using mods in it for quite a while before updating my game. Since I pick and choose select mods for each map, I very much like the themed sets together, my only suggestion was regarding tiny which is not really a matching set. 

@kid1293 I actually agree with @adelegarland , I like the small sets and still have a lot of the individual parts like Tiny and others.  That's why I have over 200 mods in my mod list.   

I would rather have more new sets, and I have more ideas 

Future tool bar overcrowding I think is more the players problem than the modders, solution is more preplanning and picking and choosing mods to activate. 

[brads3]

you do have your own toolbar under the comm icon.i think a vanilla styled toolbar with a theme icon addon under the each modders icon works.keeps everything uniform for newer players and simple.it looks like that was your original intent too.by vanilla i don't mean the icons themself but the catagories.food buildings under a food icon,houses under a house icon,city services grouped.that will save a long toolbar and break it up but uniformly.but keep large sets under a theme icon.most of the time you do make sets so it won't be much different.i do wish the markets and storage were all together.

[ancientmuse]

It makes sense for the themed matching sets to be kept together as a set in the community toolbar, much easier to find that way and less having to navigate around trying to find buildings that compliment each other (even though I do use a mixture of sets and/or individual items that work well with each other anyways).

I agree with what others said about individual mods (a single building or item mod) though.... it makes more sense for that one thing to just get put into the vanilla toolbar categories instead of the modders community toolbar.

Take for example kid's "storage crates":  Since that mod is just the one thing and there won't be anything added to it to make a matching themed set later in the future, then it makes more sense to just stick it into the vanilla storage category, so it's easy and quick to find (one click and there it is).  Red's "firewood storage" mod is in the vanilla storage category rather than under his community toolbar I'm assuming for that very reason - because it's just one individual mod all by itself so there's really no need for it to be categorized under his name.

I don't know... for me it doesn't really matter, I know where everything is at this point so I know exactly where to look to find something these days anyways.




A mega mod ?  I see no need or reason for such a thing... when you go to play the game, it still ends up falling into whichever various categories the original modder put it under anyways.  So why bother ?

Also what mods would go into the mega mod and which ones wouldn't ?  New mods are being made all the time so what do you do ?  Constantly update the mega mod ?  What if one of the mods ends up to be problematic ?  What if one of Luke's game updates causes a problem for one or more of the mods ?  How do you fix that problem ?  You can't because the mega mod would have a gazillion different mods in it so there's no way of knowing which one is causing the problem.

Meh.

I see no need for a mega mod and it could end up to be more of a problem than what it's worth.

And besides, I think the majority of us players prefer to pick and choose which individual mods or mod sets we want and which ones we don't... with a mega mod, you've got no choice in the matter.  Which means you could end up with a gazillion different mods that you may or may not necessarily want, which then forces you to have to navigate through a whole bunch of stuff in the menu categories to try to find what you're looking for.

But I do understand why maybe some people might want a mega mod.... for the simple reason that they don't want to spent several hours looking through all the downloads and downloading each thing they want... they'd rather just have the whole shabang in one simple quick download.

I can totally see how all these mod downloads could become a nightmare and get overwhelming for a new player though, for sure.   

But that's just the nature of the beast with games like this that have a gazillion different mods.... sifting through all the downloads around the internet to pick and choose which ones you want.

.... if I had a nickel for every time I downloaded a mod from all the different download sites for Banished and played with it only to discover "ew, I really don't like this mod" and deleted it from my windata folder.... I'd be a rich woman living in a castle and driving a Lambourghini by now.

LOL   




For me personally, I'd much rather have 200 mods in my windata folder rather than just one humongous one... this way I can pick and choose which ones I want to get rid of, or update, or whatever.

It gives me better control over my mods.... it also gives me better control over my mod list in the game too (at start up).



Just my silly $.02 worth.

[embx61]

It is up to you Kid

There are no agreements, like the use of new flags/limits, how to put our mods under the community toolbar.

It is up to each modder and some decided to not even use the Community toolbar at all.

Whatever you decide to do, some will be happy with it and others will not.
Ask 10 players and you get 10 different answers of how they would like it done.

I followed Luke's approach closely and put every building under the category were it belongs under my Community Toolbar.
Even when it is a set as the Small Village set I choose to do it this way instead of putting them all under a themed set Icon.
Consistency is the key here for me.

EDIT: I like to add that a lot of Lukes Vanilla buildings are a themed set too but still he put them under the categories instead of a themed Button.

What I did was put "Village" in the tooltip before the building name so players have a clue it belongs to the Village set if they hoover over the button but if they are looking for a school they know (If there is one that is) it can be found under EBservices toolbar. If it is not there it is clear I did not made a school so no need to look any further through my mods for one.

The set make use of three categories so far, EBhousing (Houses, Boarding House) EBServices (School, Well, Chapel, Hospital) and EBstorage (Barn) and the tooltip will read for example for the School "Village School". Same approach as Luke has done with Vanilla except that the players have to click 2x extra to get to it.

As for splitting up the sets. You are in the same booth. Some want them more separated, some want to combine more, some want them to leave as they are.

Toolbar changes are pretty easy and not time consuming but to copy paste stringtable/spritesheets entries around is a different story and you not going to make everybody happy anyway.
Us modders try to do what is possible by fulfilling requests and the like as long as they are reasonable, feasible, and above all doable.

But in some cases we have to follow our own mind and how we, ourselves, would like to see it done as a player and just stick with it despite requests to do it different.
If we do not we will do not much more then changing and shuffling stuff around, making the 15th F Key variant of that buildings roof, Lift that building out of that set to make it a separate mod, and not much new will be created and a burn out will most probably be the outcome.

[ancientmuse]

Whatever you decide to do, some will be happy with it and others will not.
Ask 10 players and you get 10 different answers of how they would like it done.

Exactly.

It's impossible to satisfy all the people all the time.  And quite frankly, it would get rather silly and would be like chasing your tail trying to keep everyone happy at all times.

We each have our own individual tastes, likes, dislikes, and how we play the game.... so as a modder you guys should just go with whatever the hell you prefer and stop worrying about whether some other people are going to be happy with how you set it up or not.

If they don't like it, they can simply choose to not download it.

Easy peasy double squeezy.

*shrug*

[Paeng]

questions about mod sets.
Should they be divided?
Should they grow larger?

My stand on this is most probably not very popular, but I want it to go on record anyway... 

Personally, I like any set to be as small as possible, enhanced with optional addons.

I have no problem with ordering and reordering my modlist - for me it's important that for every town I only have to load what I really need for it.

The notion of a "mega mod" type is horror for me... 

Oh, and I LOVE the community bar - best thing ever, would not want any different system again... 


* sorry for brevity, but my online time is still more off than on...

[embx61]

Indeed @ancientmuse

That is why I gave up to try to fulfill all the request's.

It is nothing personal to any player but I don't have the time to fulfill all request's.

I first shift to the many request's to see if they are doable with the current Modkit.

I not lying if I say that I push some request's more to the foreground if it has not be done before in another mod and it is something I feel the creativity in me to create it
Some players who helped me like Paeng who created all the Icons for the Irrigation channels deserved a Boarding house in my view

At the request to add houses to it made sense and was doable and so I did this as well. I even decided to add more to the set as I originally planned to.
The creative flame was there and the request's to add a school as well made sense.

I even plan to add more to the set in the near future but again, no plans to add several F Key variations as I want the mod to stay rather small and all those extra textures, double polygons for just 1 variant, going to take a bite of the players systems memory and quite some players already struggling with lag and the like.
But honestly they are quite boring to do too.

I appreciate your response @ancientmuse but I can assure you that I not worried at all
I do request's if I feel like it and I don't if I don't feel like it.

[embx61]

What is going on with your ISP @Paeng?

Did they drown as a result with all that rain?