NMT3.0Series: Forest Center for 1.0.7 version 3.3 *Updated*

[Tom Sawyer]

The eternal disput of decoration vs function.^^ I only want to say that "cheat" is actually not the right term in a single player pve game. It's rather about keeping the game working. Besides the fact that ghosted houses can be endless stacked in each other to make a big city on 3 x 3 road tiles (where people can argue to not do this or to not care) it is also messing up usability and visuals. Usability because you get no feedback anymore when placing buildings in a not intentional way if they are ghosted. Already a double click creates a second house at the same place and you cannot reach the interface. And messing up visuals because bannies will walk through walls of ghosted houses like magic. It looks very strange and I don't understand that people with a focus on visuals do like that. I always make a plan of tiles and paths for new object to get a good result in game and tweak it when testing.

In short and only my opinion without the intention to make people mad.. it makes sense to define a logical placement. To create well functioning and nice looking mods. Not because of any cheating or survival thing.

[Paeng]

I always thought it weird that even though there are buildings for forester, gatherer, hunter and herbalist, that the workers can't use them to warm up while working.  They don't even store things in them.

Yes, to me that's the big flaw of vanilla Banished (and I believe that Luke just took the easy way out because he did not want to code workplaces to accommodate storage and/or residents as well)... anyway, that's the way it is, so we need to deal with it 

Take the tailor - once I reached his capacity, what do I do? Build another large, useless building for one worker? No, I pop in another clothesrack (e.g. a 2x1 from Kid) and employ a second worker - like a snap-on. I still need to provide housing and storage anyway...

I could reason the same way for lots of vanilla buildings, but I think the point is made 


As for ghosted items - well, as decor they are without alternative. But they also enable workarounds, like second floors, reaching unreachable places (like treehouses, Mountain Lodges) and so on, things that are otherwise locked to players, mainly because of the shortcomings of the modkit, or missing hooks, or lack of terraforming, or whatever...


I take most mods as they come, trying to understand (and play) the philosophy they own... some are for me, some are not, some can be worked-around, some cannot, some can be improved with suggestions or requests, some cannot... to me, that's cool... and what counts in the end is that I had another good night of building something that pleases my senses 

[RedKetchup]

there is some incompatibilities between some feature.

like you can add storage to a woodcutter and make it like a tavern, but if the main feature is a "walking around" feature like gatherer/forester/herbalist, you cannot add the storage feature to it.

about housing... is same, it will lead to a crash. maybe it the the "UI" that crash ? perhaps
maybe by adding a 2nd TAB kinda like townhall/TP ... can resove a crash ? i dunno
everytime you try to play with "UI" it is very hard and easy to break apart like an elephant in a grass shop

[RedKetchup]

3.2 UPDATE:
- Added Lumber as new resource. Lumber is mainly used in some mods like CC or Necora Mods. It doesnt have any purpose in NMT3.0 mods. Lumber and the Lumbermill is totally optional.
- Added a new district: Lumbermill District. A NMT30FC lumbermill district makes Lumber, a new resource, from logs. Cost 32 wood and 6 stones to build, this new building can employ up to 3 cutters.
- Added also the Lumbermill as a standalone 6x6 tiles.
- Added a maximum of 2 herbalists in the Herbalist District and standalone.

[Paeng]

there is some incompatibilities between some feature.

Oh yeah, I understand that very well... there are lots of shortcomings in the code, where Luke either did not think far enough, or did not feel they are necessary. I made my peace with that, all in all there are plenty enough things that work well... in large part due to the huge work, time and thought that you modders put in! 

[galensgranny]

... Besides the fact that ghosted houses can be endless stacked in each other to make a big city on 3 x 3 road tiles (where people can argue to not do this or to not care) it is also messing up usability and visuals. Usability because you get no feedback anymore when placing buildings in a not intentional way if they are ghosted. Already a double click creates a second house at the same place and you cannot reach the interface. And messing up visuals because bannies will walk through walls of ghosted houses like magic. ...

Where are the ghost houses that bannies can walk through?  I want to see that!     I know that Kid has ghosted upper floors, but bannies can't walk through them- not that we can see, at any rate.

Besides the fact that ghosted houses can be endless stacked in each other to make a big city on 3 x 3 road tiles

Maybe someone would do that for actual play and not just fooling around for a giggle. Though, I can understand that some creators have a strong feeling towards their creation and can't stand to think that their creations might be "misused". 

[galensgranny]

3.2 UPDATE:
- Added Lumber as new resource. Lumber is mainly used in some mods like CC or Necora Mods. It doesnt have any purpose in NMT3.0 mods. Lumber and the Lumbermill is totally optional.
- Added a new district: Lumbermill District. A NMT30FC lumbermill district makes Lumber, a new resource, from logs. Cost 32 wood and 6 stones to build, this new building can employ up to 3 cutters.
- Added also the Lumbermill as a standalone 6x6 tiles.
- Added a maximum of 2 herbalists in the Herbalist District and standalone.

Wow, that's great, Red Ketchup!  Now I need more buildings that need lumber.  Hmmm, maybe a fancy town hall, or better, ghosted houses to go on top of the Forest Center buildings (not the windmill, of course).  If the ghosted houses need lots of lumber, glass for windows, and clay tile roofs (made with your clay chain), that should dissuade those who might stack lots of ghosted houses in one spot.  And it would give more use and purpose for your lumber cutter and your clay chain.

[Paeng]

Lumbermill

Cool new item 

For now I just built the standalone, just as a "decoration" in a virgin forest, hahaha 

Hoping for a lumber chain, too 

[RedKetchup]

i cant make 2nd floor housing for these cause these forest buildings have really too much random different shapes
i cant do something that would stand on top an hunter, or gatherer or herbalist districts in same time... they would need to have all their own 2nd floor

[galensgranny]

i cant make 2nd floor housing for these cause these forest buildings have really too much random different shapes
i cant do something that would stand on top an hunter, or gatherer or herbalist districts in same time... they would need to have all their own 2nd floor

Oh, yes, I see.  That would be too much. 

[Tom Sawyer]

Where are the ghost houses that bannies can walk through?  I want to see that! 

Bannies run through every ghosted object. The only way to stop them is to build something not ghosted at the same place or around it to fix this path issue. I don't fight against ghosted houses. Just tried to explain from a modders point of view why these "createplace" markers make sense and that it is more than a cheat protection or to prevent you from being creative.^^

Probably it will be the best if Red just makes some ghosted houses for the people... I will never do.

[Goblin Girl]

@embx61, I completely agree that a modder, using their own free time to create things for the joy of it, should not create things that they have a problem with.

I disagree though, that people who play the game differently from you are necessarily cheaters.  For example, I've found that the normal hard, medium, and easy starts aren't quite what I'm looking for, so these days I always start on hard, then use Debug to add in 8 more citizens.  I don't raise the number of resources available, so in fact I am starting with far less food, tools, coats, and firewood than Luke's hardest start.  This creates the setup I like.  Am I wrong for doing so?  Sometimes I play to survive against nature.  Sometimes I play for the enjoyment of growing an ever-more complex town, and I enjoy waiting for the traders to bring me what I want/need.  And sometimes I just want to see if I can create tableaux as amazing as the things Paeng does.  (Spoiler:  evidently I cannot, even for free.) 

I don't think any of these are me having badwrongfun.  I think they're just me, a retired person, whiling away an afternoon playing a game that I enjoy. And I think there are probably other ways to play that are equally fun for other people. It's all good.

[brads3]

not sure i should add this suggestion. taking PAENG's argument that the main building of the forest pieces should be the house,there is a way fake it.
by "fake it" i mean looks in game play like it should but the parts technically don't function the way they look.add a lean to house addition or shed to the buildings. it attaches to the main building and looks like a regular shed but the function is that of the house.taken together the forest set now has housing for each part.
      it does fall under EB's cheats though.someone could missuse it.

       i will add to the overall arguement though. i like PAENG's theory on why LUKe didn't add housing to various buildings.that made sence.originally thought to be added but chose the easy way instead.that works both ways too. the woodcutter was originally developed to have 3 workers and since had to be modded that way. this is 1 building i like to use the mini options for.out in a forest would a forester and hunter walk all the way to town to get firewood? no,they would cut and use the logs they already have right by their house or work areas.this is where the smaller mods come in handy.you set a small wood chopper in each area and then you have firewood supplied where it is needed without moving it all over.
     i understand the  reasons the game only allows a bannie to do 1 job but that is not historically correct.in reality a person would do many things to take care of themself and their family.growing up on my grandparents homestead farm,we had animals,gardens,crop fields,and we hunted and picked apples and berries. with a A&E start, the player has to manually do this by changing the jobs of the 2 bannies.this type start is where the smaller buildings or mods are more needed.you don't have the resources or time to build a large workspace.
    there is room for both sets of ideas. if all the modders thought the same way,we would have only 1 set of options.i am glad we have modders with different ideas and styles.i might not always like every mod from a modder or download every mod. i can build towns that use mods from every 1 though.i actually enjoy the way 1 modder's ideas and mods compliment and work with another's.that is 1 of the neat things about the game.

[brads3]

GG,i don't find that use of the debug to be a cheat. i actually have done similar before. i took the last set of nomads and the count and started a new town with them.i did figure they would have took enough supplies for a year with them and increased some of the resources. thing is yes i started with more bannies and therefore population would grow faster but it means you need to build faster too.using the debug to change a game startup isn't wrong.i could also see someone not wanting to use traders so they debug and give themself all seeds or animals.one advantage to banished is you write your own rules.

[The Pilgrim]

The ghosted houses thing is a moot point. A house has to have some kind of footprint. Shock and I tried it when we initially started playing around with the modular construction aspect of the New England Mod. If the house doesn't have a footprint, the bannies never occupy it.