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Nilla -Kentworthport, the miserable, sick town

Started by Nilla, September 16, 2015, 06:43:21 AM

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purringcat

QuoteWhen a family member dies, the stars normally are reduced, not all at once, but slowly down to ½ star. Than they stay unhappy all their lives. You can see it here and I have seen it before; the younger the faster. Normally they keep this ½ star all their lives. But there are exceptions; that's the part I don't understand.

I've had games with 1/2 star Bannies and wondered why.   They live next to their work, have excellent clothes and tools and yet nothing makes them happy.   Often they're quite young.   They change jobs often but usually stay in the same house.    Would be great if you could find a way to cheer them up.    Working as a cleric or librarian doesn't help at all.   

irrelevant

Quote from: purringcat on September 18, 2015, 06:57:36 AM
I've had games with 1/2 star Bannies and wondered why.   They live next to their work, have excellent clothes and tools and yet nothing makes them happy.   Often they're quite young.   They change jobs often but usually stay in the same house.    Would be great if you could find a way to cheer them up.    Working as a cleric or librarian doesn't help at all.
Once this happens, I think there is no way to recover from it, but I believe you can prevent it from happening in the first place by making sure that you always have a cemetery with space in it for more graves. Pretty sure this is caused by a family member dying and there is no place for his/her grave.

irrelevant

Tornado comes; @Nilla says "Hooray!" Another Banished first! ;D ;)

Pangaea

I've seen the half star people too, it seems tied to losing a loved one and not having a grave for him or her. It happened in my current game; a person died to a falling tree before I had a cemetery, and the husband became increasingly unhappy, until it bottomed out at half a star. He stayed like that until he died aged 89. In a previous game ages ago, however, the same thing happened, except the guy increased his star a little to 2.5 or thereabouts. The person in both these games eventually got a new spouse. IIRC, the one that increased his stars was young enough to get new kids with the new spouse, so maybe that is why he eventually became happier?

All clothing affects how quickly people get cold, which is obvious enough. When it reaches a certain point they need to go to heat themselves up. Naturally this will be more rare with warm coats than butt naked. Heating from coal vs firewood works in a somewhat similar fashion, in that the coal lasts longer.

Interesting findings on the idling btw. I followed my unhappy citizen around a bit too. Couldn't tell anything conclusive, but I was under the impression he idled more, so there is probably something to it.

RedKetchup

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Nilla

#20
Thank you all for the comments, much appreciated!

Quote from: RedKetchup on September 18, 2015, 04:41:08 AM
isn't because alot of people lost a family member to the tornado, and a death is pretty devastating to survivors ?

Yes that is certainly the reason for bad happiness. As I see it; the only thing that makes people really miserable. All other things that's said to make people unhappy, have no or only little influence.

Quote from: purringcat on September 18, 2015, 06:57:36 AM

Would be great if you could find a way to cheer them up.   

I will do my best to find out. At the moment I have no idea, what makes them happy again. I have seen in other games too, that some people recover from their unhappiness, most of them not, but I don't really understand how it works. At least not yet!

Quote from: irrelevant on September 18, 2015, 07:05:20 AM
Once this happens, I think there is no way to recover from it, but I believe you can prevent it from happening in the first place by making sure that you always have a cemetery with space in it for more graves. Pretty sure this is caused by a family member dying and there is no place for his/her grave.

I am sure you are right about the reason that people get unhappy and that you can prevent it with graveyards, but you are wrong when you say that they do not recover. Most people don't but some do, partially or full. I don't understand how or why, but I will go on and try to find out.

Quote from: irrelevant on September 18, 2015, 07:06:18 AM
Tornado comes; @Nilla says "Hooray!" Another Banished first! ;D ;)

Anything for the research, don't you know that?  ;D

Quote from: Pangaea on September 18, 2015, 07:49:57 AM
The person in both these games eventually got a new spouse. IIRC, the one that increased his stars was young enough to get new kids with the new spouse, so maybe that is why he eventually became happier?

That may be a point. I will investigate it.

Quote from: Pangaea on September 18, 2015, 07:49:57 AM
Heating from coal vs firewood works in a somewhat similar fashion, in that the coal lasts longer.

I think you are wrong here. My experience is that coal last as long as firewood. You may remember, I made an attempt to reach a high population on a medium map without trade. I wanted to use as much area as possible for high productive food (fields) so I heated as much as I could (about 50%) with coal, that need less space to produce than logs for firewood. I might be wrong, but my impression from that game is, that coal is used as fast as normal firewood. Even though it's produced much slower and need much more manpower.

Quote from: RedKetchup on September 18, 2015, 07:56:12 AM
alcohol :)

Might be, but in this game I have no ale and no breweries, so it must be something else, because some people do recover from their unhappiness here as well.


Pangaea

It's been a year since I looked at the files, so could be I remember that part wrong. It does work for woodhouse vs stonehouse though, but everybody know that stone houses use less fuel.

Nilla

#22
My "research" continued yesterday. I must say; this game is very accommodating!

First picture

I had a plan: I "registered" every citizen. That means, I made a number of screenshots like this. My plan was than to produce a bad starvation and after that, from time to time make the same kind of screenshots. It would give a better picture of the whole settlement, than just looking randomly into some houses, as I've done so far. It's not such a big effort. After all there's only 26 houses.

But again this nice game made me change the plans.

This happened:  ;D :-[  :D

Second picture

It's Tuberculosis, and it's very aggressive. 30 people were ill at the same time in this small settlement of 90 people. 10 of them died. I looked quite carefully in that house row with 6 apartments at the center of the picture, and I can say: Every inhabitant got ill, but only once.

I have seen here in other threads, where people complain about the hospitals; how citizens that are just healed and exit the hospital got infected again from the patients inside. But I don't think that happens, that's other individuals. Everyone get sick only once, otherwise a disease would never end. But it does, also in this case, but not before more or less every person had been ill.

Same thing as with the tornado, again I was lucky. Death by disease strikes much more random, more families are struck than by starvation.

So, I wrote the names of the newly deceased persons and went back to my screenshots and noted the names of their relatives and how they were related to the dead. Than I made a second row of screenshots a about a year after the disease was gone, and a third after the happiness had stabilized after another year or two.

These are my conclusions so far:

- All children who lost a parent are very sad (½ star)
- No child who lost a sibling is sad
- One mother of 4 who lost a child is very sad (½ star), no fathers
- One husband and one wife (both½ stars) are sad after their spouse died. The other three are still happy. One man even lost a wife and a child, still happy. All are remarried.

It seems to be some kind of random factor in this. That may also be one of the reasons that we don't really understand how it works.

Tonight I will take a look at the recovery of happiness. I have 7 very unhappy children to keep an eye on.

Third picture

This picture shows that they do recover. The women at the menus are the children from that nomad family, who lost their father at the tornado. Both were very unhappy children with only ½ star, both are married, both lost a child by Tuberculosis (it didn't change the stars, they were the same before and after the disease). It's curious; the one who recovered fully, lives directly beside the mine and work as a miner. So I don't think that the mine has any impact on the recovery of happiness.

This picture also shows the citizen graph.


irrelevant

Quote from: Nilla on September 19, 2015, 03:42:51 AM

It's Tuberculosis, and it's very aggressive. 30 people were ill at the same time in this small settlement of 90 people. 10 of them died. I looked quite carefully in that house row with 6 apartments at the center of the picture, and I can say: Every inhabitant got ill, but only once.

I have seen here in other threads, where people complain about the hospitals; how citizens that are just healed and exit the hospital got infected again from the patients inside. But I don't think that happens, that's other individuals. Everyone get sick only once, otherwise a disease would never end. But it does, also in this case, but not before more or less every person had been ill.

This is also what I have seen. In a big outbreak where everyone gets sick, no one gets sick more than once. As you say, otherwise it would never end. Those sick people sometimes seen leaving a hospital were uninfected, idling inside, and got sick while they were in there.

Quote from: Nilla on September 19, 2015, 03:42:51 AM

- All children who lost a parent are very sad (½ star)
- No child who lost a sibling is sad
- One mother of 4 who lost a child is very sad (½ star), no fathers
- One husband (½ star) and one wife (3 stars) are sad after their spouse died. The other three are still happy. One man even lost a wife and a child, still happy. All are remarried.

It seems to be some kind of random factor in this. That may also be one of the reasons that we don't really understand how it works.

Tonight I will take a look at the recovery of happiness. I have 7 very unhappy children to keep an eye on.

Third picture

This picture shows that they do recover. The women at the menus are the children from that nomad family, who lost their father at the tornado. Both were very unhappy children with only ½ star, both are married, both lost a child by Tuberculosis (it didn't change the stars, they were the same before and after the disease). It's curious; the one who recovered fully, lives directly beside the mine and work as a miner. So I don't think that the mine has any impact on the recovery of happiness.

This picture also shows the citizen graph.

Interesting things you've seen there. I'm sure there is a random factor. When you consider that lack of happiness increases idling, and that family members' deaths can give a significant hit to happiness, it makes cemeteries seem like a good investment.

I'll be interested to see what you learn about those children recovering happiness.

Pangaea

Take this with a pinch of salt because it's been a year since I modded and looked at the code (and extracting the archives didn't work in linux), but I believe it's possible for a person to get the illness again -- but only if the illness lasts a very long time. After getting healed they were immune for a time, I think it was 12 months, so in a big village with thousands of people where illnesses can last a darn long time, it's possible. If I remember the files correct, that is  :P

Interesting experiment btw. Sounds like a heartless bastard in your game; still happy after losing his wife and kid. Maybe he planned it... dum-dum-duummmm :D

Nilla

Yes, @Pangaea, 12 months sounds reasonable.

First I want to tell you, that I have edited my last thread; I was a bit too fast. All people, who were sad after their family members have died, lost all stars, except that last ½. It took just a bit longer for that one woman, who lost her husband. Maybe it was also the last person who died.

I have studied my 8 young sad people (there were 7 on my list, but I found another one. They all had ½ stars and they all regained stars, but only one of them full, Yamillison.

First picture

These are my special people, there were no improvement after that. Odeliah in the right corner, is the mother who lost a child. She didn't recover any stars, same as both persons, who were sad after their spouses died.

What's the difference between Yamillison and the others? It might be a bit random, but I think there are in fact two things, that might have an influence. She is the youngest person, she also moved out from home very young, as a student. It looks like, the recovery starts, as soon as a person leaves home and stops around the age of 30. I can see no other influence. If they have many or few children doesn't seem to matter. Yamillison had 2 children, some of the others had 3. She was a farmer most of the time. Farmers idle more than others in winter, but she is not the only farmer. Laborers, vendors and traders, also idle a lot, so I don't think it matter.

The one thing that really matters: they have to move out from home as young as possible. Later I had 3 more unhappy children (one childbirth dead and one mean boar). I built no new houses in that period, so they couldn't leave home. They stayed very unhappy all their lives.

On this picture I also keep an extra eye on Princesca. She lost her husband in a mining accident some years ago. But she isn't sad at all. It seems to be random, if adults get unhappy or not after an accidental death. But as far as I have seen; the surviving partner always gets unhappy from a death of old age. Even that Mered, who wasn't unhappy after the death of his first wife and a child, was unhappy after the death of his second wife. By the way, Yamillison is his daughter, so happiness might be a family predisposition.

I have one idea, what i want to test. Alcohol! It's said to make people happy. I have never seen that effect. But I haven't seen this recovery of sad children before either. Maybe the recovery will go faster, if they go to the inn from time to time. But first I'm testing a few other things. Maybe you can see what, if you're looking at the next picture.


Pangaea

Quote from: Nilla on September 20, 2015, 09:35:21 AM
I have one idea, what i want to test. Alcohol! It's said to make people happy.

Based on very recent and personal experience, alcohol also makes people ill...  :'(

Pangaea

A little note on health, from a recent game. I happened to start with grains, and for once I put up some farms early on because it was needed to feed all the 10 starting children. As usual I put up an early-ish herbalist, but to my great surprise the herbalist has barely treated anyone. Over about a 10 year period, the herbalist has picked over 1000 herbs, but only treated about 7 people. I suppose this is because they get enough food sources/food diversity, so starting with grains can be a nice boon.

Nilla

Quote from: Pangaea on September 20, 2015, 12:25:22 PM

Based on very recent and personal experience, alcohol also makes people ill...  :'(

Never heard of that.......... ;) :P

Quote from: Pangaea on September 20, 2015, 12:40:39 PM
A little note on health, from a recent game. I happened to start with grains, and for once I put up some farms early on because it was needed to feed all the 10 starting children. As usual I put up an early-ish herbalist, but to my great surprise the herbalist has barely treated anyone. Over about a 10 year period, the herbalist has picked over 1000 herbs, but only treated about 7 people. I suppose this is because they get enough food sources/food diversity, so starting with grains can be a nice boon.

That's very true. With a balanced diet, there is no need for an herbalist. But even with an over all good supply of every food category, there might be areas, that aren't that good supplied, especially if you have a large settlement and are a bit "stingy", when it comes to market places. Than an herbalist can do good work.

But it has its limits. In my game, the health didn't get higher than to 4 harts. Persons with 4 harts still went to see the herbalist, but there were no improvement of their health anymore. Probably because they only eat proteins, nothing else.

It was nice to see how goods are distributed to the people. The herbalists picked 8 herbs. Than immediately 8 people (not more) went to the barn, got their herbs and than to the herbalist. But finally as I bought a big batch of herbs, there was a queue way back to the town hall.

I didn't really play yesterday, only let the game run, as I did other things. Not over night. This game is no self runner, disasters on, remember? Even as I let it run an hour or two unattended, things happened, the cows in one pasture were all dead, the trees in my single orchard at the north settlement were infested.

I have prepared for ale production: Bought some cherry seed and planted some cherry trees, so now there is also some fruit to get. I also started to order cherries, I might need some more, when the ale production starts, but I haven't bought any yet. I've never bought much from the merchants; mostly animals and seeds and building materials. At the beginning, I bought some milk in order to produce cheese to sell, but than I thought ; for what? That I can buy more milk to produce more cheese? No need for that.  :-\

First picture

The queue to the herbalist.

Second picture

View of the north market place. I like this settlement.

The graph shows the reason, that the people were unhappy: I built no houses. Amazing how big influence it has on the happiness, that young people really can move out. I saw one thing that contradict what I saw earlier, that young people recover from unhappiness. There was one young woman, very unhappy (½ star), she was 28 and had a 5 year old child, so she must have moved out early enough to recover some happiness. So, maybe there are different circumstances. Maybe the reason for the death of the parent matter, or the age of the child, or something else. As I said, I wasn't at the computer much, as the game run, so I can't say what happened in this case.

Third picture

Another queue (love  :-\ that spelling, finally got it right without spell check! We have the same word, but write it "kö",  a little bit simpler.) This time diligent firefighter. The happiness graph is interesting.

Pangaea

Love that first picture with the whole town lining up for the herbalist  ;D

Interesting graph as well, with health going straight up, but happiness down, presumably due to lack of housing/sex/children.

Your neighbours across to the west have the same word btw - we write "kø". Looks like the origin isn't very old, from around 1750 Old French: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/queue
Quite a few words made it across the small pond with the Vikings, but this clearly isn't one of them.

A word that has been troublesome for me is bureaucracy. Managed to spell it right first time now (no red lines! :D), but it's such an odd spelling.