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The pathway of products

Started by gatinho65, June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM

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gatinho65

I've already spent way too many hours on this fantastic game, yet there are a few things that I'm still kind of unclear on. Like, what exactly is the path of movement for the products collected by the gatherers and hunters? Do they store them in their huts, and until when? Do they carry them to a barn, or does a laborer carry them to a barn? Until I saw Pinstar's vids, I hadn't thought to put a barn in the forest area, I just had a stockpile for all the rocks and iron they collect.

Will they carry the products to a market or only a barn? If they are the ones carrying their products, how often to they carry them? If you want them to mostly collect/hunt, do you always need enough laborers to have time to go to their barn in the forest to pick up their products?

How far does a market vendor travel to collect his goods? Does he only collect them from barns and stockpiles within the zone of the market, or will he travel all over the place no matter where the barns and stockpiles are? Does he travel to the hunter/gatherer huts in their forests?

I'm not really focused on prime efficiency, I tend to play more an aesthetic style and my villages rarely get up to even 100 people, but I do like things to be sustainable and no question lots of time is spent running around! So, I want to have a better sense of how things move and who moves them when I'm planning.

Thanks for any responses, hope this isn't too stupid of a question.

salamander

@gatinho65 -- Welcome to WorldOfBanished.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
... Do they store them in their huts, and until when? Do they carry them to a barn, or does a laborer carry them to a barn?  Will they carry the products to a market or only a barn?
Neither hunters nor gatherers store the resources they collect at their huts.  They do maintain stores of food and firewood they pick up from markets/stockpiles/barns for their personal use, just like any other house occupant, but those resources are at the home, not the worker's hut.  The resources they collect are taken to the nearest storage facility, often by the hunter/gatherer or by laborers (I think) if the resource gets left laying around.  I believe they will occasionally deliver directly to a market if that's nearest, and maybe depending on how full the market is.  I could very well be mistaken about the last part, though.  Others here would know for sure.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
If they are the ones carrying their products, how often to they carry them?
Like all laborers/workers, hunters and gatherers have a maximum capacity for what they can carry.  Once they reach that capacity, they will head to storage.  They may also drop of resources even if they're not carrying all they can if they have to head back into town for personal needs for their house.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
If you want them to mostly collect/hunt, do you always need enough laborers to have time to go to their barn in the forest to pick up their products?
So far as I know, you can't prevent hunters/gatherers from collecting their resources, and laborers won't hang around waiting for something to carry.  Who ends up carrying a collected resource is a matter of who picks it up first.  Personally, I don't make any allowance for laborers to do the carrying -- I assume the hunters/gatherers will do it on their own.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
How far does a market vendor travel to collect his goods? Does he only collect them from barns and stockpiles within the zone of the market, or will he travel all over the place no matter where the barns and stockpiles are? Does he travel to the hunter/gatherer huts in their forests?
Vendors will travel anywhere on the map to get resources for the market they're assigned to.  As huts are not used to store resources, vendors do not go directly to huts to get them.

rkelly17

@gatinho65, my observation is that they will often leave stuff lying around (look for sides of venison, hides and baskets) and then either they or another hunter/gatherer or a laborer pick it up and carry it to a barn (usually the nearest, but laborers can carry stuff around for awhile and drop it anywhere). Then a vendor or trader (if you are trading the commodity) comes and gets it from a barn. People have reported seeing certain raw material producers take stuff directly to a market, but this would be the exception. Vendors will go where they need to go to get what they stock--even to the other side of the map--so if you have a certain market commodity in only one area of the map, be sure you have enough vendors so that one can get there and back. I often find that, say, if my corn fields are South and my wheat fields North, the markets in the South have more corn and the markets in the North have more wheat. Traders will clean out their local market when looking for a good, then go to barns and storage yards, so they put extra work on to the vendors. I find that in a market with good access to the full variety of necessities I can often use just 1 or 2 traders. Rarely I get up to 6 and I can't think of the last time I fully staffed a market. To keep things were you want them you have to use the "workers needed" clicker next to the "total workers in this profession" clicker at the top of the market window.

slink

In my experience, food producers will carry their produce to whichever place is closest to them and has room, be that a barn or a market.  However, they will not take produce to a market if there is no barn at all.  You have to have at least one barn built in order for the markets to accept produce.  This indicates to me that something more complicated than "closest with room" is operating.

Kaldir

#4
Like others have mentioned here as well, my experience is that hunters and gatherers deliver their product to the barn (or market maybe) themselves, unless they drop it on the ground because of some interrupt (hunger, cold, change of job? I don't know). For fishers however, I've often seen them leave their crates on the dock, to be picked up by laborers.

The exact carry capacity and the weight of products can be found on the Banished Wiki. In short, citizens can carry 100 weight, food weights 1 (only mushrooms 4) and leather weights 10.

Market vendors go all over the place if they have to, as said before, but they get their stuff nearby first. Barns at the edge of town have a much higher chance of always be at 100% because the vendors never need to get there. Like @rkelly17 I've never have a fully staffed market or trading post. Just a few workers for each building seems to get the job done fine. However, I've never had a town of over 800 people.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 08:07:49 AM
I'm not really focused on prime efficiency, I tend to play more an aesthetic style and my villages rarely get up to even 100 people, but I do like things to be sustainable and no question lots of time is spent running around! So, I want to have a better sense of how things move and who moves them when I'm planning.

Feel free to show your village in the Village Images or Village Blogs forums. I'm always interested to see what other towns look like and how other people plan their towns.

gatinho65

Thanks for all the detailed answers;) During play today I observed pretty much everything described, which given the variety of things the little guys do when I follow them around, made me wonder how exactly it worked lol! Now I know the variety is the way it is.

The next big question: The stockpiles I put in the forest hubs end up filling up with tons of stone and iron that just seems to stay there, meaning constant bongs about full storage. Even when I put in a substantially sized pile. Who picks it up to take it somewhere more central and how do you get them to do that lol? I really don't want all the laborers to go out all that way for each load of stuff. I thought the vendors would bring it to market once I finally got it built, but they don't seem to move anything but firewood, iron sometimes.

What I wanted to do was put a destroy order on the pile (then place a new one) in order for all the supplies to be taken somewhere more useful, stockpiles I have placed near what I'm building. But I was too scared all my precious resources would somehow just vanish! What is it that happens if you order the deletion of a barn or stockpile that is full of stuff? And if the resources are carried somewhere else, who does it? Just the laborers, or the vendors, or the producers, or all of the above?

I'm playing the wine version on my mac, the original, no patches, in case that makes a difference, as I know some things have changed.

On that note, I've found I need to be completely micromanaging about the farmers to get them plant on time and harvest, and definitely NOT put a priority order on anything at all or they will wander off to help out, meaning I lose my planting window or the harvest. Is that something related to some of the changes in the patches? As I'm new to all this, only been playing this last week obsessively, sorry if this is an old issue.

Not that I really mind, micromanagement is what I LOVE about this game. Its like a nice combo of Tropico and SimCity. I definitely so completely utterly love the lack of industry, cars, roads, traffic, high rises, all that stuff;) And since my wine version doesn't really go all that speedy, my 10X is more like 2X, compared to what I see on the videos. And I'm still mostly playing 2X lol.

However, crashes mean I lose my best stuff. Like today, just getting to a really nice comfortable place and for the sustainable 80 or so that I worked towards, tons of food, aesthetics, everything planned finally built and no pauses, and then CRASH. Somehow all my saves and the autosaves did nothing, there is nothing at all to load. So sad. Oh well, that is the risk one takes playing on a non native platform I guess.

So far the actual hardest starts I've had have been the 'easy, mild, small valley maps' lol! I've had far better success on ALL my hard starts and mountain starts, no starvation, school built after only 1 uneducated kid comes of age, sustainable early on. My easy starts have actually been on maps with few trees or rocks, making them much harder than all the hard starts. My first experiences with starvation and freezing were on the 'easy' starts with everything seemingly given to me. Is that common?

Ok, enough ramble, I type 95wpm, gotta not do that on a forum lol;)

irrelevant

If you destroy a stockpile, swarms of laborers and anyone else with nothing better to do will appear from all over to relocate the stockpiled stone, iron, what-have-you. They will take it to any nearby stockpile that has room. They might not put it exactly where you would prefer, so check out all your nearby stockpiles. The first time I did this, they moved everything even farther away than where it had been!

 

salamander

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 09:41:58 PM
... The stockpiles I put in the forest hubs end up filling up with tons of stone and iron that just seems to stay there, meaning constant bongs about full storage ... Who picks it up to take it somewhere more central and how do you get them to do that lol? I really don't want all the laborers to go out all that way for each load of stuff. I thought the vendors would bring it to market once I finally got it built, but they don't seem to move anything but firewood, iron sometimes.
Stone, iron and logs in stockpiles will be used 1) by builders/laborers for building, and 2) by vendors to stock their market, and 3) blacksmiths (iron and logs) and woodcutters (logs).  In each case, the workers use the nearest source of what they need, which is often not the stockpile in your forest hubs.  The end result is that, if you are accumulating a reserve of these materials, it often ends up concentrated in the out-of-the-way stockpiles.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 09:41:58 PM
What I wanted to do was put a destroy order on the pile (then place a new one) in order for all the supplies to be taken somewhere more useful, stockpiles I have placed near what I'm building. But I was too scared all my precious resources would somehow just vanish! What is it that happens if you order the deletion of a barn or stockpile that is full of stuff? And if the resources are carried somewhere else, who does it? Just the laborers, or the vendors, or the producers, or all of the above?
The destroy order is the quickest way to move stockpile/barn resources to a new spot.  With the destroy order, laborers (and workers who aren't currently working) will move resources to the nearest available storage site -- nothing vanishes.  Unless you really want to get rid of the original storage site, though, you can hit the 'reclaim' button for the site before it's completely emptied -- then you don't have to spend the resource to build a new one in the same spot.

Quote from: gatinho65 on June 08, 2014, 09:41:58 PM
On that note, I've found I need to be completely micromanaging about the farmers to get them plant on time and harvest, and definitely NOT put a priority order on anything at all or they will wander off to help out, meaning I lose my planting window or the harvest. Is that something related to some of the changes in the patches? As I'm new to all this, only been playing this last week obsessively, sorry if this is an old issue.
One of the changes in the patches is to give workers, like farmers, a zone of responsibility, so they don't wander too far away during the off-season.

Kaldir

#8
Another way to move materials around is to have a trading post gather it. Tell your trading post you want it to have 5000 stones, and your traders will collect it from all over the map (nearest first). Afterwards you can set it to 0 again in the trading post, and those traders will deliver all your stones to the nearest stockpile. Be sure to have large stockpiles near your trading post for this. Also, be aware that materials in a trading post cannot be used until you release them.

salamander

Quote from: Kaldir on June 09, 2014, 04:52:21 AM
... Also, be aware that materials in a trading post cannot be used until you release them.
And, if I remember right, won't be counted in the Summary screen reserve, so you have to remember that you actually have more stone etc... than gets reported if you're leaving it in the trading post for any amount of time.

Kaldir

Quote from: salamander on June 09, 2014, 05:16:37 AM
Quote from: Kaldir on June 09, 2014, 04:52:21 AM
... Also, be aware that materials in a trading post cannot be used until you release them.
And, if I remember right, won't be counted in the Summary screen reserve, so you have to remember that you actually have more stone etc... than gets reported if you're leaving it in the trading post for any amount of time.

True. Materials in the trading post, in buildings being destroyed, in houses or in transit (for example a vendor picked it up but is still on the road with it) is not counted in the summary screen.

In the Town Hall you can check the total inventory for storage (markets, barns, stockpiles), trading posts and houses. Very useful if you have multiple trading posts. That you can sort it on amount instead of name is something I only found out a few days ago.

slink

You can find out what is in your trading posts by using the drop-down menu to change the location for which your Town Hall is reporting inventory.

gatinho65

Excellent news, all around. Can't wait to try creative manipulation of stockpiles;)

So between the two, which build do you prefer: trading post or town hall? And do you build them before a market? I think the town hall seems to offer the most useful information, especially when I'm focused on just building a village of maybe 100 people. Since none of my maps so far really offers enough trees to be able to chop enough firewood to trade for a long time (I basically have to reforest everything first), I haven't really seen the need for a trading post until further down the line, but the additional storage and moving around of stuff seems useful too.

Kaldir

I build a market pretty early, followed soon by a town hall because of the statistics. I'm often quite late with trading posts, despite starting on hard without seeds and livestock.

If you build a few foresters (they combine great with gatherers and hunters), they will cut quite some trees for firewood. It takes a few years though before the reforesting really kicks in. Education is pretty important too for firewood, nicely illustrated here by @kangaredditroo.

Venison (and beef/mutton) provides good trading too, because they are worth 3. If you swap them for other food, you get three times the amount of food in return.

rkelly17

After I've got the original forest village going (hard start) I build (usually in this order) blacksmith, school, tailor, market, fishing dock and trading post. Then I trade to get some agriculture going. All the while I'm stockpiling logs, stone and iron for the town hall. Love those statistics! I usually hold off the town hall until after I've taken my forester off plant only and ramped the staff up to 4. Otherwise the number of logs is a killer.