Let's talk about MAPS!
This is a little warm-up for a map mod.
I think everyone have their own favorite terrain to start with.
What if it were more flexible? Let's talk about maps!
I do not have any Tiny or Huge maps. Tiny are pointless, small are just as good.
Huge can be fun but it is very hard to make maps with consistent quality. There seems
to be many problems associated with huge maps. Tearing, dark water and long load times.
Other modders are very welcome to add to this.
Players are welcome to discuss new maps.
Here is a zip-file with overrideMap.pkm plus source files.
Included in mod this far - 2018 Dec 11th:
Plains - mostly flat
PlainsRivers - plains with more rivers
OneRiver - plains with no streams, no lakes
Lakes - many small lakes
Swamps - mostly water
ValleysRivers - valleys with more rivers
MountainsLake - mountains with big lake
MountainsRivers - mountains with more rivers
MountainsMeadows - mountains with some flat areas
:) Enjoy
I've never had a use for Huge maps. Hard enough to fill the medium sized ones before the game craps out.
I am a huge fan of valley style maps. I enjoy having to deal with the mountains. Sort of forced to work out the puzzle in different ways every time to get around or through the mountains. Also like to have a couple medium sized lakes, not massive lakes. The river is obviously mandatory.
Those are my typical preferences.
i would get kicked out for saying stuff about maps and starts.you all would send me to a corner.each modder has done something different to these and that is good for giving more players options.
however in very few cases can we take an idea or change from 1 to another map. where is the coding guy we had last week? we would need him to even think about doing this the right way. i think the right way would work but it would not be easy to do.my thinking is the start settings should be split so we can load changes and the game woud add options to the maps. so starts should add gathering,trees,animas,map style plus terrain texture,plus rocks,etc.each piece should be split whoch would give a ton of more options.each player coud make their own map or start by combining various mods or options. so far this is lmited to the modders and players both.we can add or alter some aspects of the starts.others when we try to add,it becomes a give and take. we gain this but the game drops that. i can change the bison or deer texture but if i change the grass texture i lose the wild animals.i can add 20 items to the gathering but lose 1.
modders have improved it and gave us more options. i am grateful for the advanced options we do have.each year there are huge gains.
1 thing i think many players would like is a coastal map. even if we can't use or build on the map edge, but to have 1 side flat and water instead of the edge mountains.
I agree
@brads3 but we must start somewhere to make things unified.
I opened up to talk about maps. This can lead to terrains/textures and later
we maybe get some sort of system to select what is spawned from trees.
And trees them selves, of course. I am not sure I can handle all this but,
as I said, other modders are welcome.
Here is a map-example. I tried to make Mountain Meadows. Not only rock
and rock again. We need space to develop. With a little tweaking this can
be interesting. :)
That last on there looks nice and crazy challenging!
can anything be done to remove the edge mountains and leave it dead open space or water? how much have you experimented with mixing meadows with forests? did you try a raised walkable level for a plateau? even just 1 story high might be interresting.
do these maps change with the code or are they locked exactly as your pictures?
i personally open to add some news kind of maps for RKEC before it is set for 1.2....
i am really strugling to try to get a very good "lakes" setup.
i am very bad at this part of the map generator.
So what sizes are these available in? You say you don't use tiny or huge, does that mean you aren't offering them as an option?
Just to add my 2 coppers...
Sizes...I didn't start playing till the game had been out for a couple of years so I forced myself to stick with vanilla for most of a year before moving on to playing with mods for reasons that aren't really relevant to this topic, but I mention it because I kind of shifted tastes in maps when I started with mods.
During vanilla it was almost always valleys and I tended to go large until I got into my small maps obsession for a few months. Would occasionally play medium because they tend to generate best of the three, but it was almost always large or a specific choice to go small.
With mods I'm all over the place. If using lots of mods and planning to go big I'll do with Larger. There was a Huge map that the older terrain mod I tend to use (More Terrain, if memory serves) that had all kinds of problems kid mentioned, but the one up from large is generally fine. Since Discrepancy released his, I'll occasionally play a Tiny for specific reasons, and once in a while a medium, but generally a Large or the next one up...different mods have different names for it. I run a pretty beefy PC so performance isn't really a concern usually and I like to be able to spread out. If the issues could be fixed, I would play huge ones sometimes.
Modded, I almost always go with plains. Unless there's a specific look or challenge in mind, I don't really see much point in having a lot of hills or overbearing water. When looking at a map, it's generally the placement of lakes (if they are on the river or not), how many lakes there are (depending on what I'm planning to do), how many streams there are and how much parallel generation there is with them and other things, and if the river isn't exceedingly diagonal. I don't mind a lot of lakes if they are on the river and I love them in clusters as opposed to the big single lake maps. That's in general. I do use other things if there's something specific I plan to be doing.
Not sure of that's the kind if feedback you were looking for or not, kid.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just curious.......
What is your assessment, Maldrick, on what provides the best performance for this game... memory, cpu, gpu... I have a decent PC also and it starts to crap out around 1,000 or so. I am a PC tech, so no stranger to PC's, but never been much of a gamer so I lack that connection to what helps performance on a game like this.
Current Setup....
Main drive is SSD
64bit windows 7 pro
32gb ram
Core I7-3930K @3.2ghz
Game is on SSD drive and I use the 64bit version of the game.
Quote from: theonlywanderer on December 07, 2018, 02:21:47 PM
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just curious.......
I have a decent PC also and it starts to crap out around 1,000 or so.
thats cause from the pathing engine the game use, and the thing also, the game is running almost on 1 cpu core. today machines have 4 / 8 / 12 / 16 cores... and we dont use it. about the 1,000 pop lags, no much to do there, the game need a more optimized code to rule the pathing calculations.
Making a plateau is beyond the mapmaker. Removing edge is also impossible.
Maps are seeded just like vanilla. You have millions of them.
I have not included any 'tiny/mini/micro' or 'extra large/huge/enormous' maps
for reason stated above.
@Maldrick - I hear you :) You are just one voice among many on how you choose map.
I try to come with ideas myself and as such you have to be patient, maybe I can solve
problems and add other sizes, other basic templates... for you to test.
@RedKetchup - You actually came with a suggestion. It sounds like you want a regular
valley map with a few more lakes, a little larger lakes? Test it. It is easy to get into and
it can be a good way to relax from other modding :)
Quote from: kid1293 on December 07, 2018, 02:37:46 PM
@RedKetchup - You actually came with a suggestion. It sounds like you want a regular
valley map with a few more lakes, a little larger lakes? Test it. It is easy to get into and
it can be a good way to relax from other modding :)
yeah i ll check that next of what i am doing.
trying to play with my 4 spawns of trees/grass/flowers to see i can get better layout of the RNG and tests take long. i can do like 4 tests of changing number + compile + create a map + look around the result : PER HOUR.
there is also the fact, i compile RKEC 1.2 FULL which takes alot of time.
Quote from: RedKetchup on December 07, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
there is also the fact, i compile RKEC 1.2 FULL which takes alot of time.
;D ;D You're crazy! Make a small separate mod.
Quote from: kid1293 on December 07, 2018, 02:58:19 PM
Quote from: RedKetchup on December 07, 2018, 02:55:23 PM
there is also the fact, i compile RKEC 1.2 FULL which takes alot of time.
;D ;D You're crazy! Make a small separate mod.
cause if i find something good i want to play it !!
sometime, it is just after a while you can have a strong feeling about it!
i remember people this mod is 1st : the change of this game as i wish i want to play!
hehe
and after offer it to people ^^
;D
is that code for when you are" done making the RK,you wil go play and stop modding"?
Quote from: brads3 on December 07, 2018, 03:11:41 PM
is that code for when you are" done making the RK,you wil go play and stop modding"?
haha i can spend more time playing
my mod instead of civ V :P
i am always doing some modding during a week basis (not daily basis). we need to allow some time for us !
we are not robots! ^^ ;D
Here's a nice map with large lakes from RKEC.
684 422 595 Large (Lakes, Peak's Lakes): cucumber, carrot, apple, blueberry, leghorns
(http://shrani.si/t/2D/Nk/3mV57XEO/banished-map-01.jpg) (http://shrani.si/?2D/Nk/3mV57XEO/banished-map-01.jpg)
@theonlywanderer I run a 8700K at stock (never could get an OC that I liked with air cooling so I bagged it), 1080Ti, Hero Maximus X Mobo, 32 GB Ripjaws, and C drive is a M.2 SSD, 64bit win10 pro....Haven't tested higher pops yet on this rig, but my last one was roughly the same with 6700K/1070/Hero IX and I did test that with debug a while back. Would start to notice it bog down a bit around 1k pop, give or take, and became a slideshow around 6k, if memory serves...Probably wouldnt be much fun playing way before that though. Test included an appropriate amount of buildings, too. So I imagine if you use no-smoke and tweak your settings (think I read turning off antialiasing can improve performace and the game doesn't really use it) it could be pushed a bit. My really big ones, if I even do them, are usually never more than around 1k and I think 3k was my biggest ever so I just tested it out of curiosity. Actually, that one was on an older box that was a i5 2600/750Ti/ sata SSD/64bit win7 pro and I remember it slowing down noticeably but nothing game breaking. On that machine differences in map sizes could definitely be felt as pops increased.
Really, the big thing now is if CC is loaded or not. Start to feel it in the mid-100s with CC, for whatever reason, and you can tell a difference with map size affecting performance. With everybody else's mods it's generally smooth at whatever map size up to where I generally play to. The secret weapon with this game, though, is no matter how hard you hammer your rig with it, bad performance goes away with pause and you can do pretty much everything in pause except advance the game. Which, I suspect, is how people manage to go for the monster pops. Having played it on 3 boxes, I'm of the opinion that you are probably okay with most normal play (except CC and/or big maps) on most PCs, to an extent, and you will hit issues at a point on any PC, pretty much. And how bearable it is, or not, is largely personal preference.
Now you got me curious about testing it again.
@kid1293 I hear you...was just adding to the discussion. We all have different preferences. Your creativity is boundless, so whatever you decide to do I'm sure it will be awesome.
Yes, the no smoke mod helps for sure. Sounds like your performance is right in line with what I experience. I took one rather heavy built and populated map and deleted every single path piece out of it and noticed a bit of performance gain. I then went back and only put in the main supply paths as stone. It stayed reasonable for a bit longer, but eventually started lagging again as I built more stuff.
Hi again.
I updated first post with two new maps. The mountain meadows I showed earlier and
a simple plains with only one river, no streams, no lakes!
The last can be useful with new trees (or no trees) and new landscape texture for
a desert scenario.
so i tried to apply some of your "lakes" numbers and parameters....
i've got a couple of little... surprising game bugs ^^
Is this a large map? My large maps were okay
Quote from: kid1293 on December 11, 2018, 02:30:29 PM
Is this a large map? My large maps were okay
large and very large (512' and 640')
LUKE never gave us the water table code enough to stretch it or double it?
RK - try to reduce just a little
// number of parts per lake
it might work
Quote from: brads3 on December 11, 2018, 02:46:52 PM
LUKE never gave us the water table code enough to stretch it or double it?
nope, no access
Quote from: kid1293 on December 11, 2018, 02:51:09 PM
RK - try to reduce just a little
// number of parts per lake
it might work
yeah i played with some numbers. i am compiling presently. my last numbers look so fine that i decided to copy the code over all other lakes map codes (with diff terrain types).
what i've saw, pleased me.
edit: i should have took the seed numbers so i can compare !!!!! doh!
that random generator is touchy it gives different maps from CC to RK for same # and sizes.might be slight but still differences between the maps.
the mountain maps look like they will play better with more open space to build and set forests.
I have downloaded overrideMaps and when I attempt to generate a Map I get a game crash.
I have included a short look at the mod load order. Shown is my last attempt, of many, produced a crash.
Any ideas what I am doing incorrectly?
Perhaps because of DSTerrainsAndClimates mod.
Also try taking out MaritimesTrees. On my end I get Necora's trees with just the PineSet.
Thank you
@Gatherer I will try your suggestion.
Hello kid1293. Could you check out this mod, I have A Large Map Size, Why with even a combination of RK Editor Choice Edition, Large Map Size Crash or is an endless download? Medium Map Size starts, but Large Map Size doesn't. In a combination of RK Editor Choice Edition and MegaMod 8.01 too. Can you check what's the problem? Medium Map Size In different combinations seems to be working. I'm mostly interested in Maps-Mountain Lake!
Hello
@tuggistar I wish I could help you! I do not play much and I am very stupid when it comes
to load-order problems. Maybe someone sees this and can throw in their two cents.
The tests I made with my mod was okay. Sometime I could get a bad large map
with graphical glitches but it never stopped loading.
kid1293
Apparently the conflict is MegaMod 8.01. Without it, The Large Map Size in this MODS works fine with the MODS RK Editor Choice Edition, but only without MegaMod 8.01.
Сan I ask for a little favor if possible. Ask RedKetchup to add to RK Editor Choice Edition Maps - Mountain Lake and a few others. To play with RK Editor Choice Edition and MegaMod 8.01 on Large Map Size on all Maps, but without overrideMap.
The RK Editor Choice Edition itself runs in all combinations perfectly on its Maps, on any Map Size.
I am not so sure
@RedKetchup will do more work now.
He will see this message if he comes by. We can only hope. :)