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RK Editor Choice 1.31 Full - Town Hall crashes game

Started by MarkAnthony, June 19, 2019, 10:45:39 PM

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MarkAnthony

Hi @RedKetchup ,

So I started a game with RKEC 1.31 Full and everything was going fine for a couple of hours. When I decided to place a Town Hall down, I placed it no problem; but as soon as I click on the empty spot where I placed it, to open it's window I get a fatal exception error. That was over 8 hours ago before I had to leave for work.

I am home from work now, and loaded up the last Auto-Save of the game. I decided on a different area to place the Town Hall. I placed it no problem, but again as soon as I clicked on the ground to open it's window I got the same fatal exception error again.

For your info and consideration in case you want to try to reproduce this error yourself I'll give the map information below. Maybe that map is bugged for that building?  /shrug

Map Seed: 511682235
Terrain Type: Equinox Valley
Terrain Size: Medium
Climate: Fair
Disasters: On
Starting Conditions: Medium 3

I'm going to re-load the Auto-Save again and see if I can get past the next 30 minutes to see if the game would have crashed regardless of the building I put down. If the game continues for 30 minutes and I can build other stuff without a problem, I'll try the Town Hall again. Either way, I will let you know what happens.

And yeah... I know. I said I would play vanilla Banished for a couple/few weeks to get the hang of the game but I just couldn't help myself! I wanted to use RK Editor Choice!!!   :P 8)

~MarkAnthony
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

MarkAnthony

#1
Just an update:

I've loaded that Auto-Save again and have played it for about 45 minutes now and no crashes. I've built plenty of other things instead without issue. I even built stuff in the exact same two spots I tried placing the Town Hall before, and those buildings gave me no trouble. I am a little pre-occupied now so I'll try to get that Town Hall built within the next half hour.

I got an unrelated question though. When students go to school, shouldn't there be a message that they graduated when the school years are done? I never see graduation messages, just "so-and-so became a student" and years later (I forget all their names honestly) "so-and-so became an adult and is working as a laborer."

So if I have a school, I can assume that they all attend and those children who grew up and became adults were former students?

Now... an unrelated comment: BOY! That "One year is one year" mod the version requested by @Abandoned sure made it tough for me, especially as a brand new and unfamiliar player! Geesh!  :o ???  Talk about a "slow-go"!!!
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

What other mods except RKED do you have? I seldom build the normal Town Hall (the lighthouse is much nicer) but I have used it and never had any crashes. RKEd has more kind of townhalls. I suggest you build the Lighthouse or the jetty town hall to see if it´s the vanilla type or the Townhall, especially that causes the trouble or town halls in general. Maybe if you have other mods that also have town halls, you could try one of these as well.

There´s no announcement of graduations. Only the change in "status"; child, student, adult. If you have fewer schools than students, the announcement; XX became an adult and is working as ... may mean that a student has graduated or a child that has no room in schools became 10 years old.

If you are the impatient kind of player, you should avoid "real-time aging" mods. I am such a person and I seldom use one of these. I find that there´s no flow in the game. I always say; there's a reason for this weird Banished aging of one year each season. For me, things happen too slow in "real time". But we are all different kind of players, we like different aspects of the game. New to the game you must test what fits you. The possibilities are huge.

Artfactial

To be a bit off topic: Yes, realistic aging is a huge game-changer.:)
I wouldn't agree that there is 'no flow' just that the flow's pacing is stretched out far more with available work-force, students and baby-booms being far slower but deeper hits. I really like it, for one.^^
It is true, it requires a deal more patience and a good deal more micromanaging of jobs at times, but being this much more, and longer, involved with your Bannies really adds value.

But yes, experiment, try, have ideas and find your own way with the game!

MarkAnthony

#4
Okay it just happened again.

I decided to try and build the Town Hall for a third time. This time, I just placed it down and didn't touch it for a few minutes and all was well. @Nilla , it was the vanilla Town Hall that I was placing -- LOL I didn't know there were other types. Anyhow, I placed it down and watched it, just waiting for materials to arrive then I noticed something I hadn't seen before - people just started leaving baskets of stuff everywhere within the "building blueprint". It didn't look like building materials, more like baskets of food hehe.

Anyways, leave it to me to touch the "footprint" of the Town Hall to bring up it's progress window then BAM! it crashed again. Same fatal expression error again. *sighs

@Nilla , I do not have any other building mods added to @RedKetchup 's. So no other conflicts in that regard. Regarding my school, well... because of that "one year is one year" mod things are super-duper slow hehe. My one school is sufficient now, using vanilla's at the moment. The most I ever had in there was one teacher and fourteen students. I average eight to ten students at a time though normally.

Quote from: Nilla on June 20, 2019, 01:06:38 AM
If you are the impatient kind of player, you should avoid "real-time aging" mods.

Lol, I can be at times, yeah. It's a challenge for sure, only one laborer and one builder for 94% of the time, it's hard to get anything done, that's for sure. I constantly shut down businesses and send workers from one place to another. Not ideal in any sense. My population grows too slow. I am at year 20 now maybe, or 19 and I think I had 23 adults, 9 students, and 20 children - something like that. Geesh! And because that aging mod makes things go slow (compared to what I see in other people's videos when they play), I've been playing at 10x speed and even then it seems slow because there are hardly any warm bodies on the map - I mostly stare at buildings hehe.  Can you imagine me trying to get 2,000, 5,000, 10,000 + populations like other players do at this rate?! No way!  :o ???

I'm hoping since I described a few things (crashing only when touching the footprint of the building), everything fine until then and otherwise, the map info, Town Hall type etc - maybe @RedKetchup can try it and see if it happens to him as well.  Maybe you can try it too, if you have some downtime and would be willing to hassle with it.

Regards, and good night. 1:30 am here I best be going.

~MarkAnthony
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Nilla

Quote from: MarkAnthony on June 20, 2019, 01:33:22 AM
Can you imagine me trying to get 2,000, 5,000, 10,000 + populations like other players do at this rate?! No way!  :o

The whole truth isn´t that real times makes the game slow. It just changes the dynamic. You do experience the start. Very slow, very boring. But when you reached maybe 100-200, it changed and you feel no real difference to vanilla aging. And if you´re letting the settlement grow beyond that to something like 500-800, things may go totally out of hand. The growth is very fast and you must be careful in building houses; especially houses for many inhabitants. So @Artfactial is right, it does add value also for a "surviving type of player" but personally; I like vanilla speed better.

RedKetchup

sorry if late to answer.... you probably did put a mod about townhall/nomad ahead of the list , ontop of RKEC ...

destroy your townhall without clicking on it.
save
alt-tab
then go here : http://worldofbanished.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=489
download the RKECtownhall.pkm patch and place it in your windata folder.
i think you need to reload the game so it can see there is a new mod in there...
restart game, load your town.
then go to the mods you used for your town, add that RKECtownhall.pkm patch, make sure it is all on top of your list.

let it reload and should be fine. save on another slot still, and build your townhall.

the patch has been made for PineSet if people wanted its biomes... but will do the same job for your problem.
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brads3

we recommend the 1 year age ods to players to slow down the game and give them time to learn.there are several variations and options to those mods. it gives players time to fcus on learning the game flow and mechanics without being overwhelmed. with the slower population growth, you have time to build food and supplies,look at the toolars, and get used to the bannies themselves. makes the game a lot less frantic.

    not sure what you mean by it made the game "tough" other than it made the game too slow. there are several ways to make the game more challenging or speed it up. you can try adjusting the start settings. changing just the climate can make the game harder since you will have to work to have enough food.delay buiding the school and accept nomads,this will drop the education level and speed up the population growth.try not to drop the education below 40%. it weill become verty frantic. try different mods and make different goals from map to map.

       each person finds their own play-style along the way, and that changes over time as well.  actually like the 1:1 mods. to me they balance the population growth  with the time frame of everything else the bannies eat,build,and food grows at 1 speed. population growth was always out of sync.  since the size of nomad grups are based on the population,they are small for the 1st 5-10 years.this gives time to build a stockpile of tools,clothing,and food. look around the map and form a plan.  after a while, varries depending on how fast you grew the population with nomads,the game balances out with graduates. when trying different mods and dealing with glitches that can occur,these stocpies give a safety cushion. the effects of any conflicts aren't as bad.

MarkAnthony

#8
Good morning.

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 20, 2019, 03:14:57 AM.... you probably did put a mod about townhall/nomad ahead of the list , ontop of RKEC ...

No I didn't. Here are the in-game screenshots of my mod window:




FYI: I only included the Debug mod in case I ever wish to "plan a town's layout" prior to actually playing a game for real. I don't use it to cheat the game during normal play.

Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 07:36:36 AMwe recommend the 1 year age ods to players to slow down the game and give them time to learn. ...  it gives players time to fcus on learning the game flow and mechanics without being overwhelmed.
I get that and it's part of the reason I wanted to use it.

Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 07:36:36 AMnot sure what you mean by it made the game "tough" other than it made the game too slow.
Exactly! Greatly so, lol.

Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 07:36:36 AM... try not to drop the education below 40%. it weill become verty frantic.
Even with my educated citizens, it's frantic in terms of the intense micro-managing from having only one laborer and one builder at almost all times and having to send workers from one job to another because I lack bodies to fill those positions properly.

I see now during this game, that if I intend to continue using the aging mod (and I kind of still do) then I need to "slow my roll" hehe - it's very apparent to me now that my problem isn't so much lack of population (well...yeah it is) but more to the point that I'm building/expanding too fast! I need to only build when I have someone to take on the job while still leaving a small cushion of available laborers. I think in my next game attempt (this being my second game ever) I will try to always have two to four laborers at all times.  /shrug But I still foresee the game-play being super-slow in real-time and in terms of in-game progress, at least early on anyhow.

My other problem is the whole "keeping up with the Jones" aspect. What I mean is, I see how my progress is in game but in my head I'm comparing myself to videos of others playing the game who within the same time span of in-game years are so much more advanced and further along. (1) I assume they are not using the aging mod, and (2) they are far more experienced with Banished than I am, and (3) I am a slow-paced player to begin with.

I don't use keyboard shortcuts, I don't zip around that map super fast and click on 40 different things in a minute queuing the buildings or people up with tasks. I also have a habit of "just watching things".  Hehe!

Have you ever watched Age of Empires II Ladder competitions back in the heyday of Age of Empires? The top player of the time JosieWales, was moving all over them map doing stuff as if the game speed was on 300x speed! 

So anyhow, when I play, the way I play, I always have that stuff in the back of my mind: I'm too slow, I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing things in the right order, I'm not laying out my town properly or efficiently etc, etc,.

Even though I am consciously aware of these facts  I still can't help myself in terms of comparing myself to others. I'm my own worst critic.
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

MarkAnthony

I forgot to ask you about something else you mentioned @RedKetchup .

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 20, 2019, 03:14:57 AM... destroy your townhall without clicking on it.

I assume you mean, "destroy the building footprint of the townhall" - right? But isn't using the "Remove Structures" tool button the same as clicking on it? For three times now, clicking on that building's footprint = game crash!

Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

brads3

micro managing with 1 laborer..........hmmm. nah you have laborers you aren't seeing or using. you can set the limits for clothing,firewood, or tools so the workers help as laborers when they have enough supplies.  then as the population grows and they need more increase the limits.also farmers help as laborers during winter. don't clear land far away thou. the farmers need time to get back to their fields to plant. butchers and others will help hen they are low on gooods to process.

   the tiny buildings mod has a small townhall that can bring nomads without needing other buildings. KID has some options also that give nomad groups based on the % of population. say 5,10,or 50%.you can grow at whichever speed wors for you plus you can remove and adjust the welcome signs easily. you can start out taking larger % and as your population grows tae smaller groups later.     

     1 thing to remember when looking at videos is computer power makes a huge difference to speed.plus they can be edited. a high power gaming computer will move at a very fast pace.bannies can knock down a forest full of trees super quickly at 10x.

     as you learn and develop your own play style it will get better.

brads3

the remove tool can be stretched over the foundation and elminate the TH from the map. it shouldn't cause a crash.

RedKetchup

#12
Quote from: MarkAnthony on June 20, 2019, 10:32:06 AM
I forgot to ask you about something else you mentioned @RedKetchup .

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 20, 2019, 03:14:57 AM... destroy your townhall without clicking on it.

I assume you mean, "destroy the building footprint of the townhall" - right? But isn't using the "Remove Structures" tool button the same as clicking on it? For three times now, clicking on that building's footprint = game crash!

dont click on the building footprint ! use the remove building tool, start select tiles near the footprint and drag the zone to delete up to include at least 1 tile of the footprint.
did you downloaded the patch ?

why did you put the warehouse top ? should be at bottom of the list ?
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MarkAnthony

#13
Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 10:34:53 AM
micro managing with 1 laborer..........hmmm. nah you have laborers you aren't seeing or using. you can set the limits for clothing,firewood, or tools so the workers help as laborers when they have enough supplies.
Very interesting, and helpful to know! Thank you @brads3 I didn't know that.

Prior to ever playing the game I read online that farmers will act as laborers during the winter without us having to reduce the farmers to zero workers at wintertime - they just automatically do that themselves. So that much I knew.

I didn't realize that when limits were reached that those workers did the same thing! That explains so much! I thought that those workers who reached their limits were just standing idle inside their respective buildings doing nothing! hehe  So whenever I saw that icon above the building, I would go there and reduce the workers for that building to zero to put them back into the labor pool. Now I know I don't have to do that anymore. Thats so cool!

It also explains when I know I only have one laborer why I still saw other people on the map doing stuff (clearing fields and whatnot). Thanks for bringing that awareness to me.

Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 10:34:53 AMthe tiny buildings mod has a small townhall that can bring nomads without needing other buildings.
I also didn't realize that buildings needed certain criteria to be met before they themselves can be built - unless of course you meant the building materials required such as glass needing the glass worker and so forth. That part I understood but I thought you were inferring something else such as for example, you got to have a trade post and 200 population yadda, yadda before you can build this building.

@brads3 Do those two mods: the tiny buildings and that nomad one work with RKEC Full and if so, do they go below that in mod order? I can do a search for those mods but just in case I pick the wrong ones or can't find it can you share those links please? Thanks.

Quote from: brads3 on June 20, 2019, 10:37:05 AM
the remove tool can be stretched over the foundation and elminate the TH from the map. it shouldn't cause a crash.
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks again @brads3

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 20, 2019, 10:39:22 AMdont click on the building footprint ! use the remove building tool, start select tiles near the footprint and drag the zone to delete up to include at least 1 tile of the footprint.
Yeah, just moments before you replied, @brads3 just explained that to me. I noticed you also posted a screenshot showing how as well. Thanks. At first I thought your screenshot was showing you building the vanilla Town Hall on that map seed.   ;)

Quote from: RedKetchup on June 20, 2019, 10:39:22 AMdid you downloaded the patch ?

why did you put the warehouse top ? should be at bottom of the list ?
No, I haven't gotten that far yet. I haven't been in game yet since I was writing all of these comments.

I put your warehouse mod above because I thought I was supposed to! /shrug   ;D Okay, I'll move it right below your RKEC.

Just prior to my third game crash last night with the Town Hall I was just about to build that warehouse too! I clicked on it to build it and then thought, "Hmm.. a couple of hours went by without crashing so maybe I'll try that Town Hall again..." then BAM! cRasHhhh  :(

So yeah, good thing you mentioned the warehouse was not in the right mod order, otherwise it may have crashed while trying to do that too!  *sniff
Sometimes it's the very people who no one imagines anything of
        who do the things no one can imagine.

Abandoned

Regarding the 1:1 aging mod.  I do not know who recommends its use to new players, I certainly would not recommend it to anyone who is not well familiarized with the basic vanilla game itself.  It does make the start more difficult due to the lack of workers early on and requires more micro-managing.  It is certainly not boring.

I highly recommend that new players learn the game, and exercise restraint when starting to use mods.  Doing otherwise is asking for trouble which we hear time and time again.  That certainly can't be fun.